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Thread: Arguments – Obstacles on the way leading to eternal life

  1. #1 Arguments – Obstacles on the way leading to eternal life 
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    http://koti.phnet.fi/elohim/arguments.html

    The purpose of the following lines is to contemplate those obstacles, which one may encounter on the way leading to eternal life and why some people don't turn to God so easily. The purpose is to deliberate especially over those outlooks and thoughts, which lie in the minds of many people and make them negative toward spiritual matters and God's call; in other words reasons, why they turn their backs on God's salvation and grace.

    So, when we start searching for reasons and obstacles, why these people don't turn to God and on what grounds, especially the following points are relevant. They appear again and again in the lives of many people and are a reason for why spiritual matters and God's call are neglected by them.


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  3. #2 Re: Arguments – Obstacles on the way leading to eternal li 
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    I find this, to be honest, hilarious. It's really not suprising, given the psychology of theists. Let me paste some of this for those who want some humor, without clicking the link:
    >>
    The fact is that many never stop to think about spiritual matters, the reality of eternal life and its validity."
    <<

    Neither do theists when it comes to Evolution or many non-creationism based theories and beliefs. It's a fallacy in itself when you try to point fingers, yet you are being pointed at. Thus, "Lack of thinking" can instantly be directed at every. Single. Person. On. The. Planet.

    Personally, I find it very preachy. Especially the "I am scientfic" part. It focuses more on preaching and spiritism, rather than logic or evidence and realism. Although technically that's what christianity tends to do and should do.

    Also, it attempts the famouse "Evolution is based on faith" argument that many theists attempt to do by saying the following:
    >>
    (in other words matters such as the big bang theory and other similar matters, which cannot be proved experimentally, are based on faith – such as the view of creation is based on faith.
    <<

    The big bang has been "proven" with physic calculations, modles, and according to numerous theories. one cannot create an EXPERIMENT because one cannot compress all matter back into that form and see what happens. According to hawking radiation, the nature of supermassive black holes (The Big Bang was a star so massive it didn't emit it's own light, in theory. Given it's mass and gravitational pull that would have most likely ensued. Thus, black hole), the proper result would be what many theorize happened. I could go on and list numerous other theories, but nah, you should do the research.

    I would go on, but my commentary is good enough. That and I'm too lazy to continue to type commentary on every inaccurate thing the theist says. If you want the theories I mentioned, or my "assumption" theories that prove it with physics exist, check wikipedia. Big Bang. Have fun!


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  4. #3 Re: Arguments – Obstacles on the way leading to eternal li 
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetriFB
    The purpose of the following lines is to contemplate those obstacles,
    I guess that you are trying to be a comedian. You cannot even come up with your own ideas, but prefer to plagiarize a web site, and then you do so incorrectly. Are you trying to be a joke?
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  5. #4 Re: Arguments – Obstacles on the way leading to eternal li 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes
    Quote Originally Posted by PetriFB
    The purpose of the following lines is to contemplate those obstacles,
    I guess that you are trying to be a comedian. You cannot even come up with your own ideas, but prefer to plagiarize a web site, and then you do so incorrectly. Are you trying to be a joke?
    I liked that article, becaus I think that it speaks a lot of truth about it how people has many obstacle to believe God .......
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  6. #5 Re: Arguments – Obstacles on the way leading to eternal li 
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetriFB
    I liked that article, becaus I think that it speaks a lot of truth about it how people has many obstacle to believe God .......
    I think that it would be nicer if you were to mentioin that the words that you post are part of an article, and it would be even nicer if you would post your own words.
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  7. #6  
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    Aye, it would be nice if he would. However I think the main problem with accepting "god" for most are the philosophical issues. For example, if god is all loving, why did he cause the death of thousands of people to bring about something for his chosen ones, such as the promise land, instead of just peacefully doing so?

    Or for another, the omnipotence issue. If god is omnipotent, then god knows our future free will or not. That being so, is it really free will? And can we be blamed for fate? This issue also crosses over to the deaths he's caused, since he's all powerful, he could have avoided it effortlessly and brought about the exact same results regardless.

    For the third and final one that is classed in the "major" philosophical issue department: adam and eve sinned, not the whole human race. Would an all loving god, who created us, and knew what actios adam and eve would take given his omnipotence, condemn the whole human race and their many children to such a long time of pain, suffering, and death?

    I could go on, but I doubt it would hold much relevence. In the spirit of attempting to spark a debate, I've strayed from the link to type this which is still to be considered on the topic of accepting god. Also to notify the poster who posted the link about the OTHER issues aside from those on the website. For a final comment: Truth is subjective. Just because for SOME it's considered truth, doesn't mean everybody else follows the same guidelines. I highly doubt that one little link would cover ever single issue, and it doesn't. The problem with links like that and websites is that they tend to only gather a few counter arguments rather than go IN-DEPTH and find the TRUELY difficult or impossible to answer philosophical or scientific answers that prevent many from "finding" your god. Thus, it fails to really carry much weight in that area.
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    Or for another, the omnipotence issue. If god is omnipotent, then god knows our future free will or not.
    You are thinking of omniscience, not omnipotence. One could have infinite power and yet know virtually nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    Thus, it fails to really carry much weight in that area.
    Elegant understatement.
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  9. #8 Re: Arguments – Obstacles on the way leading to eternal li 
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetriFB
    http://koti.phnet.fi/elohim/arguments.html

    The purpose of the following lines is to contemplate those obstacles, which one may encounter on the way leading to eternal life and why some people don't turn to God so easily. The purpose is to deliberate especially over those outlooks and thoughts, which lie in the minds of many people and make them negative toward spiritual matters and God's call; in other words reasons, why they turn their backs on God's salvation and grace.

    So, when we start searching for reasons and obstacles, why these people don't turn to God and on what grounds, especially the following points are relevant. They appear again and again in the lives of many people and are a reason for why spiritual matters and God's call are neglected by them.
    The link considers the following reasons for rejecting religion:

    The lack of thinking
    “I am scientific”
    the faults of the church
    Evil in the world
    Why is there damnation?
    THE CALL TO A NEW LIFE
    Except for the first of these, these are indeed a fair description of common reasons for rejecting religion. The difficulty is in finding any fault with these reasons. Of course the word "obstacle" for these reasons is clearly prejudicial. It implies that "turning to God" is the natural and "healthy" human behavior. It is Scott Peck's observation as a clinical psychiatrist that turning away from religion is at least as often an act towards mental health as turning towards religion. The biggest "obstruction" to mental health, in this view, are the people who butt into other people's business, telling them what they ought to do rather than leaving them free to make their own choice of what is best for themselves without such interference and pressure.

    The tenor of the whole post by PetriFB is presumptive, condescending and insulting, and would be more appropriate in a forum whose participants share at least some of his presumptions.

    The lack of thinking
    I see no evidence to suggest that thinking per say leads people towards a religious commitment. Apparently, "thinking about religious things" is assumed. But I see clear evidence that thinking about religious things is just as instrumental in leading people to reject the religious indoctrination of their parents and culture as it does in leading people to commit to a religious life.

    “I am scientific”
    In other words because science is more rational than relgion.

    the faults of the church
    Faults of the church and the people in it (their obnoxious and far from admirable behavior), are indeed a big reason why many people want nothing to do with religion.

    Evil in the world
    In other words the logical conundrum, known as "the problem of evil". This (or its essential equivalent) is indeed the basis for many rational people to reject the Christian ideas of God as rather unlikely.

    Why is there damnation?
    In other words, the common Christian idea of the judgement of all people according to the private rules of the Christian religion to determine their eternal fate violates a lot of people's ideas of justice.

    THE CALL TO A NEW LIFE
    In other words, the rejection of the restrictions that relgions place upon how a person can live their lives, also plays a role in the decision of people to reject religion.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
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  10. #9 Re: Arguments – Obstacles on the way leading to eternal li 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes
    Quote Originally Posted by PetriFB
    I liked that article, becaus I think that it speaks a lot of truth about it how people has many obstacle to believe God .......
    I think that it would be nicer if you were to mentioin that the words that you post are part of an article, and it would be even nicer if you would post your own words.
    I agree you, that it is nice if I would mention that pots is a a part of an article..I try remember next time, if I post similar post .....

    Of course I post my own thoughts too, but sometimes there is very good articles ,which is worth to read ........
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  11. #10  
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    Actually, I was correct when I stated Omnipotence. Since Omnipotence is basically limitless power, you could make yourself know everything using that limitless power. And with Omnscience, you could make yourself have unlimited power by using that unlimited knowledge. Really, it's a two parter.

    Now, is this the end of this thread, or can someone post other links or make some argument to keep it going? It's an interesting topic.
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