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Thread: Christianity vs. Islam

  1. #1 Christianity vs. Islam 
    Nox
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    I have heard a few days ago that Islamic believe in Adam and Eve.

    "According to Qur'an, Allah created Adam, the first human, out of dust and commanded the angels to bow to Adam. Satan, also present, refuses due to his pride, and is banished from the heavens."

    If the Christianity and Islam had had the same roofs, why was their ways later separated?


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  3. #2  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard SkinWalker's Avatar
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    Religions are culturally maintained and evolve independently of each other with introductions of obstacles like time and space. The origins of Christianity and Islam both lie in Judaism, which, in turn, appears to lie in earlier Near Eastern cults. There are direct correlations and obvious borrowings from the Canaanite pantheon as well as Akaddian, Babylonian, and Sumerian cult practices. Indeed many of the myths in the Hebrew bible have direct parallels in older myths of Sumerian and even Egyptian origin.

    The separations of these religious cult practices through time is influenced by many, many factors, not the least of which I suspect include political and nationalist motivations, the desire for status, the need to establish mechanisms to differentiate clans, tribes, and (later) nations from competing or oppositional clans, tribes, and nations, etc.


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    The example you gave, has been spun differently. To an early militaristic Hebrew state, Satan/Lucifer refused a direct command because he would bow only to God - whom he loved excessively. Lucifer more than any other angel loved God. But God wanted obedience above love. A rather brutal martial moral there.

    The Hebrews thrived where and when they did because they cultivated such values; which is why the stories attached survived while others were lost. Later the same story might be useful to another (e.g. Islamic) situation with a different spin on it. So then pride becomes the wickedness. I've also heard (forget whose spin) that Satan's chief crime was inspiring other angels to rebel against the boss.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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  5. #4 Re: Christianity vs. Islam 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nox

    If the Christianity and Islam had had the same roofs, why was their ways later separated?
    They were not separated, Islam was created in the 7th century.
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  6. #5 Re: Christianity vs. Islam 
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemie
    They were not separated, Islam was created in the 7th century.
    Muslims believe that Islam is the first religion on earth. God sent his prophet from time to time to guide human. Muslims believe in Musa (Moses), Isa (Jesus), Muhammad (the last prophet) and other prophets. Muslims believe that parts of the previously revealed scriptures, the Tawrat (Torah) and the Injil (Gospels), had become distorted—either in interpretation, in text, or both.
    I know, but I'm talking about facts, not beliefs.
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  7. #6 Re: Christianity vs. Islam 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nox
    If the Christianity and Islam had had the same roots, why was their ways later separated?
    Judaism, Christianity & Islam are really all the same religion. But the same way their are Hebrews that don't accept that Jesus was the Messiah to come from the seed of David, Christians don't accept that the Holy Spirit came to Muhammad via the angel Gabriel. And the same way Jesus represented the laws of Moses perfected, Muhammad represents Christianity perfected. There are alot of connections that illustrate these points.

    But, like a previous poster was pointing out, when it's all said and done, "Relgion breeds ignorace".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    The example you gave, has been spun differently. To an early militaristic Hebrew state, Satan/Lucifer refused a direct command because he would bow only to God - whom he loved excessively. Lucifer more than any other angel loved God. But God wanted obedience above love. A rather brutal martial moral there.
    Just curious where this story is from.
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  9. #8 Re: Christianity vs. Islam 
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    Quote Originally Posted by Nox
    If the Christianity and Islam had had the same roots, why was their ways later separated?
    Judaism, Christianity & Islam are really all the same religion. But the same way their are Hebrews that don't accept that Jesus was the Messiah to come from the seed of David, Christians don't accept that the Holy Spirit came to Muhammad via the angel Gabriel. And the same way Jesus represented the laws of Moses perfected, Muhammad represents Christianity perfected. There are alot of connections that illustrate these points.

    But, like a previous poster was pointing out, when it's all said and done, "Relgion breeds ignorace".
    Saying they're the same religion is like saying Mormonism and Christianity is the same religion. Absolute nonsense. They're three very diverse religions, based in the same origins, namely the Abrahamic faith, from which Judaism came, and then later on, the others.

    Basically after Judaism, Christianity emerged, claiming to have found the man to lead the Jews into a new golden age (like they had with David). They then branched off. Islam is based on the Abrahamic faith, but also incorporates the bits they thought were appropriate from Judaism and Christianity (they even mention Isa, also known as Jesus, as the one who will fight the Antichrist when the day of reckoning is upon them). Islam recognizes both Judaism and Christianity to be attempts at the truth, but being the latest, it also considers itself the "correction" to their truths.

    In short: Islam thinks Mohammad got it right, and the other prophets messed up somewhere along the line, though they still believe in the other prophets.

    I have been told (now, keep in mind, I have no source for this, and as such it is to be taken with a fair amount of salt, curry and ginger root, but I believe it is in the Bible somewhere) that Abraham's son, Isaac is the "founder" of Judaism. The Muslims belive Ishamel, the son of the slave Abraham also had a child with, is Mohammad's ancestor.
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  10. #9  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard SkinWalker's Avatar
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    Mormonism *is* but one of many cults of Christianity in the same way Calvinism, or Methodism are. Their cult doctrines diverge more so than most sects, but they still believe in Jesus Christ, from which Christianity is named.
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    Then Christianity is a cult of Judaism, and not a separate religion, by your definition. It used to be a sect; but it's far too big for that, and the differences are quite massive. Same with Mormonism. I think Mormons have something about aliens in their holy book, I can't be sure.
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apophasis
    Then Christianity is a cult of Judaism, and not a separate religion, by your definition.
    Jews don't believe that Jesus Christ was a messiah (let alone the messiah). Calvinists, Lutherans, Methodists, Catholics and Mormons do. These are all cults of Christianity. Judaism is its own set of cults.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinWalker
    Quote Originally Posted by Apophasis
    Then Christianity is a cult of Judaism, and not a separate religion, by your definition.
    Jews don't believe that Jesus Christ was a messiah (let alone the messiah). Calvinists, Lutherans, Methodists, Catholics and Mormons do. These are all cults of Christianity. Judaism is its own set of cults.
    To call them a cult or not.

    I don't like the terminology, except that you could actually be correct. I will agree that all these religions that sprouted from Judaism could be cults, formed by false prophets. Even Judaism may be a false religion. We do know there is solid history behind them all, but that doesn't mean mankind didn't manipulate dogma for his own persona gain in power. Even assuming Christianity is true, the King James Bible isn't. It was written for King James, to control his subjects. While primarily accurate, it has too many mistakes in the interpretation.
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  14. #13  
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    As an archaeologist, I study cults. Most of them ancient, prehistoric even. In the scientific literature of archaeology, "cult" refers to any sect of a greater religious belief or worldview that exhibits its own characteristics. I see no reason to place any barriers or boundary of time on the use of the term. If its appropriate to refer to the religious activities of a distantly past culture as "cult" activities and describe adherents as members of the "cult," then it should be equally appropriate to do so for modern adherents who have their own distinct cult activities.

    In other words. I use the term in purely scientific and detached utility. Those who take offense do so because of their own superstitions and sensibilities and I haven't time or consideration for it.

    The plural aspects of Elohim and various pronouns, etc that indicate divine plurality are in the original Hebrew. King James, Greek, and Latin versions aside -the passages are distinctly plural and reference a polytheistic society, albeit with subtlety in many cases.

    There are, however, passages that clearly indicate an acknowledgement of other gods as if they are in existence.

    The mention of Tehom in Genesis is a clue. Here it refers to the deep, but the plural of Tehom is Tehomot, which is cognate to the word Tiamat, the god from the Enuma Elish who was slain and cut in two, with one half becoming the earth and the other the sky, both pushing back the waters of chaos -the deep- to create the world.

    Tehom and several mentions of the Leviathan throughout Genesis and Psalms is a remnant of the plural nature of polytheism.
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  15. #14 Re: Christianity vs. Islam 
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    Quote Originally Posted by "Apophasis
    Saying they're the same religion is like saying Mormonism and Christianity is the same religion. Absolute nonsense. They're three very diverse religions, based in the same origins, namely the Abrahamic faith, from which Judaism came, and then later on, the others.

    Basically after Judaism, Christianity emerged, claiming to have found the man to lead the Jews into a new golden age (like they had with David). They then branched off. Islam is based on the Abrahamic faith, but also incorporates the bits they thought were appropriate from Judaism and Christianity (they even mention Isa, also known as Jesus, as the one who will fight the Antichrist when the day of reckoning is upon them). Islam recognizes both Judaism and Christianity to be attempts at the truth, but being the latest, it also considers itself the "correction" to their truths.

    In short: Islam thinks Mohammad got it right, and the other prophets messed up somewhere along the line, though they still believe in the other prophets.

    I have been told (now, keep in mind, I have no source for this, and as such it is to be taken with a fair amount of salt, curry and ginger root, but I believe it is in the Bible somewhere) that Abraham's son, Isaac is the "founder" of Judaism. The Muslims belive Ishamel, the son of the slave Abraham also had a child with, is Mohammad's ancestor.
    Just a small correction: Mormonism would be a denomination or sect and Christianity, like SkinWalker pointed out, would be a sect of Judaism.

    But the point that I was making about Judaism, Christianity and Islam essentially being the same is based on doctrine. Jesus was an Israelite that said specifically that he didn't come to bring anything different from what was brought before him. The Qur'aan states that Muhammad was teaching the "Rites of Abraham" and actually talks about Jesus more than it talks about Muhammad. The division between all of these doctrine comes in when power-hungry men who sought the status of being "divinely inspired" or "guided by God" stepped in to attempt to control the fates peopleb y playing on their ignorance.

    And just to correct you, Abraham is recognize as being the founder of both Judaism and Islam because he is the one who received the covenant. The agrument between Isaac and Ishmael comes in when they try to decide which one of his sons did the covenant pass to. Jews say it passed to Isaac because Jacob a.k.a. Israel is a descendant of Isaac; Muslims say it's Ishmael because Muhammad is a descendant of Ishmael by way of the Quraish tribe.
    "I am not teaching you anything. I can just help you to explore yourself and realize the cause of your ignorance; an appropriate medicine for a particular ailment."
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  16. #15 Re: Christianity vs. Islam 
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    From what I understand (either mythologically or historically, the distinction isn't particularly relevant in this case) , Abraham wasn't initially able to conceive with his wife Sarah. As a result, he turned to Sarah's handmaiden Hagar and they conceived a son - Ishmael. Abraham and Sarah eventually worked out their fertility issues and conceived Abraham's second son, Isaac. Abraham was far more fond of Isaac than he was of Ishmael. When the time came for Abraham to fabricate his religion, Hagar and Ishmael were excluded. In turn, Ishmael created a "rival" religion, and the animosity between these two groups still exists to this day.
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    A surprising amount of Islam and Christianity match. The only reason, as far as I know, they are seperate is because they were seperate. Islam has a version of the Great Flood. Muhammed is very similar to Jesus except that Muhammed is God (Allah)'s Prophet, rather than Son. But Islam and Christianity were formed in completely different places but the events matched. Maybe coincidence, maybe they originated from the same faith, or maybe the events were recorded by different people by different places.
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  18. #17 Humh ? 
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    The title of this thread says it all, Christianity VS Islam. Science VS Religion. Us. VS Them. How about a new paradigm? Us & Them, Science with Religion, Chistianity embracing Islam.

    There is a lot of info and education in this world, very little wisdom. The haters are still in control.

    Someone noted that the Bible mentions other Gods besides the One God of the Jews. Most of the differing peoples of that time had their own particular tribal gods. When one people battled and won over another, it was seen as proof that their god was more powerful and therefore legitimate. But even Christianity, which is supposedly a religion of the one true god has quite a cast of characters including angels and demons, the big bad god satan, and the puzzling 3 gods in one trinity.
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  19. #18  
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    I don't think that Christianity and Islam are the same religion. Although I don't know as much about Islam as I do Christianity, I agree with the statement that Christianity is a updated version of the Jewish faith, and Islam of Christianity. However, I think that religions will always be outdated- religion by nature changes slower than humans. I think that the different adaptive speeds of different religions is what sets them at odds. Christianity is very well adapted to "freedom" and "democracy". It was forced to do that when these ideas came around in western Europe. Islam, on the other hand, was mainly practiced in areas in which the people were either in tribes or ruled by the sultans or the like. Therefore, when "freedom" came to Islam's home turf, with the western powers, Islam was immediately at odds with it.
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