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Thread: Reincarnation is deception!

  1. #1 Reincarnation is deception! 
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    If we start to examine basic views of the New Age movement and the Oriental religions, it is good to start from reincarnation. This doctrine is namely in the background almost in all teaching of the New age movement and it is also the basic belief of the Oriental religions, in other words of Hinduism and Buddhism. About its commonness has been estimated, that about 25 % of people in the western countries believes in it, but in India and other countries of Asia, where is the origin of this doctrine, the percentage is naturally much bigger. There, in other words mainly in India and other countries of Asia has been taught this doctrine already at least for 2000 years, and obviously it was accepted generally about 300 before Christ, not just before it.

    When it is a question of reincarnation, it in any case is based on the fact, that our life is believed to be continuous circulation. Its is believed to be continuous circulation, so that each person is born on the earth again and again and again, and gets a new incarnation always according to that, how he has lived in his former life. All that bad, what happens to us today, should only be consequence of the earlier happenings, and that we must now reap it, what we have sown earlier. Only if we experience enlightenment and at the same time are freed from the circulation, in other words we will achieve moksha, so this circulation does not continue eternally. (However in the western view achieving of moksha is not very important. Instead of that, in the western world reincarnation is seen in positive light, in other words mainly as a possibility to develop and to grow spiritually. It hasn't similar negative nuance to generally in east.)

    But what can we think about reincarnation; is it really true or not, and is it worth while to believe? We try to search for answer to this matter in this writing.

    http://koti.phnet.fi/elohim/Reincarnation


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  3. #2  
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    Ive read some of your writing on your homepage and most of it dosent really make any sence. You are wrting about reincarnation but you dont really know much about hindusim or the dharma. About the law of karma you write
    However, an enigma is, how any impersonal law can function in concerned way. For indeed any impersonal power or law can not think, separate quality of acts or even remember anything, what man has done - such as an earthly Statute-Book can't function in concerned way, but always is needed the executor of law, in other words personal being; mere law can not do that.
    It is belived in hinayana buddhism that nothing really exists except Duhkah "change/suffering/pain" All judgement on onesself emits only from oneself. Moreover you have completly forgotten about that fact the "I" does not exist. The "I" being you youself, your personality or your soul.
    Any conclusion you make about the existence or nonexistence of reincarnation based on the childplay of the european culture on an infact very plausablke religion {buddisme} would in my eyes be meaningless.


    As Time and Space come bending back to shape this star-specked scene,
    The tranquil tears of tragic joy still spread their silver sheen;
    Along the Grand Canal still soar the fragile Towers of Truth;
    Their fairy grace defends this place of Beauty, calm and couth.

    Bone-tired the race that raised the Towers, forgotten are their lores;
    Long gone the gods who shed the tears that lap these crystal shores.
    Slow beats the time-worn heart of Mars beneath this icy sky;
    The thin air whispers voicelessly that all who live must die - Robert A. Heinlein
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  4. #3  
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    One of matter, which proves impossibility of reincarnation is, that when person born again as better person, so why wickedness increase in the world and not reduce?
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetriFB
    One of matter, which proves impossibility of reincarnation is, that when person born again as better person, so why wickedness increase in the world and not reduce?
    Well why do you belive a person is born as a better person?
    As Time and Space come bending back to shape this star-specked scene,
    The tranquil tears of tragic joy still spread their silver sheen;
    Along the Grand Canal still soar the fragile Towers of Truth;
    Their fairy grace defends this place of Beauty, calm and couth.

    Bone-tired the race that raised the Towers, forgotten are their lores;
    Long gone the gods who shed the tears that lap these crystal shores.
    Slow beats the time-worn heart of Mars beneath this icy sky;
    The thin air whispers voicelessly that all who live must die - Robert A. Heinlein
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  6. #5  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    In my simplest and most straightforward subjective consideration of reincarnation, I am simply inclined to say that it does not agree with my experience of reality. From a more objective perspective, I must think about what reincarnation really means. This sounds like a new baby is born into the world and some old spirit with "karma" (which sounds to me like the burden of its own sins) attaches itself to this baby to influence its choices and fate.

    At worst (complete domination by this spirit), this sounds like possession, and as a religious doctrine it sounds like (from the Christian point of view) the practice and promise of demons. Although from the Buddhist perspective it is not so much a promise as a hopeless cycle that one should try to escape, and I could not agee more. I cannot see what the point of such endless repetition would be. The idea of old spirits in newborn babies not only disgusts me but crushes all hope one could feel for a new generation. I think that it is one of the blessings of death that human evil must eventually die.

    In a milder (less intrusive) form it sounds like the doctrine of the moonies which believes that the spirits of ones ancestors come to their living descendents in the hope of redeeming themselves in the influence they can bring to bear on them. Thus the moonies try to link Christian doctrine, reincarnation and the kind eastern spiritualism that blames many chronic illnesses on the burden and influence of less wholesome ancestors. There is some similarities with another kind "new age" belief or spiritualism (e.g. encountered in "Seth Speaks") where spirits form groups of some sort. In other words, the spirit of the baby does develop it own unique identity but is attached to and influenced by a group of older spirits representing past life times.

    This milder form of reincarnation sounds more reasonable to some degree although I have no experience that validates it for me. I believe in taking responsibility for my own choices and not in finding excuses in some imagined spritual influences. I believe in accepting the experiences of life (good and bad) as a gift from God to learn and grow from and not looking for magical or spritual cures. But this is my approach to life and I have no inclination toward making other people see or live their life in the same way. So I don't feel a great deal of skepticism about the possibility of this type of spiritual activity, but I also don't believe in pursuing this possibility in my own life.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brinkboy
    Quote Originally Posted by PetriFB
    One of matter, which proves impossibility of reincarnation is, that when person born again as better person, so why wickedness increase in the world and not reduce?
    Well why do you belive a person is born as a better person?
    I don't believe, but reincarnation doctrine says so......

    But facts says that world goes worse direction .............not better direction ...
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  8. #7  
    Forum Bachelors Degree charles brough's Avatar
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    The assumption inherent in reincarnation is that the supposed "afterlife" can get worse if we have lived a selfish life where as if we live righteously we can ESCAPE into "Nivana" which is simply "no longer existing." In other words, the goal of the reincarnation belief system is simple death, the same realistic end seen by atheists like myself!

    Thus, if you have a moral code such as the Ten Commandments (only, however, we really need a much better one!) then you do not need the whole "afterlife" thing at all in order to be "good." Really! After all, life is only postponed death, as Schopenhour said. The whole concept of "life after death" is an absurd oxymoran. Death is final, and unhappy people should always have a right to achieve if they want.

    In India, the concept floats around that eating meat is "bad" and even that "the animal you eat may be the one that eats you in Hell!" We are carnivorus and it is in our nature! Religions grow sick and troublesome when they try to make us different than we have evolved to be; and we have done very well for ourselves by, in effect, taking over the world as we have!

    The Buddha was way ahead of his time. He taught a living way of moderation and against reincarnation, gods, afterlife and all. But when religious reaction set in in the Hindu world, his belief system became corrupted and just another Hindu Sect. This is what is happening to our secular ideology now. It is being taken over and used by the fanatically Christian religious Administrations. Our president even had the gall to claim the Muslim terrorist attacked us "because they were jealouse of our freedoms!" What nonesense!

    charles, http://humanpurpose.simplenet.com
    Brough,
    civilization-overview (dot) com

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    There are no accidents, just someone taking too much risk. . . (CB)
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  9. #8  
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    PetriFB,

    “ When it is a question of reincarnation, it in any case is based on the fact, that our life is believed to be continuous circulation. ”


    It is based on the understanding that the soul is immortal which then transmirgrates to another set of circumstances, some time after the death of its current body. The new set of circumstances are exactly in accordance with the souls level of consciousness before death occurred. As such the living entity must reap the seeds he sowed in his/her previous incarnation.
    The transmigration only goes one way (up) untill it gets a human body, then from that position it can go back or continue upward.


    “ Its is believed to be continuous circulation, so that each person is born on the earth again and again and again, and gets a new incarnation always according to that, how he has lived in his former life. ”


    Where did you find this info?


    “ All that bad, what happens to us today, should only be consequence of the earlier happenings, and that we must now reap it, what we have sown earlier. ”


    Hence it is seen as a natural phenomenon.


    “ But what can we think about reincarnation; is it really true or not, and is it worth while to believe? We try to search for answer to this matter in this writing. ”


    One cannot argue whether it is true or not, you must decide for yourself whether it makes any sense, and the best way to make a decision (IMO) is to read Bhagavad Gita.




    Have only read snipets, but it sounds like a very weak understanding of what it is.

    Jan.
    [/quote]
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  10. #9  
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    Creater of this thread: keep in mind others beliefs!
    I don't suffer from insanity, i enjoy every minute of it

    the road to succes is never paved or clearly marked
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  11. #10 Understanding Buddhism 
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    A word of caution to those who talk about Buddhism, the religion is based on wisdom, not faith. You can misinterpret it if you have not studied it seriously. If you really understood what it is all about, then you would have reached enlightenment. So when you say Nirvana means "no longer existing", you say it out of ignorance.

    I think Brinkboy's statement is the closest to the Buddha's teaching:
    It is belived in hinayana buddhism that nothing really exists except Duhkah "change/suffering/pain" All judgement on onesself emits only from oneself. Moreover you have completly forgotten about that fact the "I" does not exist.
    What I have been taught is there are three ultimate truths about everything call Triluksana:
    Dukah - Suffering, Restlessness
    Anitjang - Impermanence, everchanging
    Anatta - No self, "I" is not real, it is just an illusion of a state.

    Of course, I have not understood the concept fully myself. But it should be something along this line of thought.
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  12. #11  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard SkinWalker's Avatar
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    Reincarnation is deception!
    Of course it is. Its a religious belief. This is what religions do best: deceive.

    However, it is at least as credible as the alternative that you appear to believe in (the Judeo-Christian afterlife). Both are equally provable -which is to say there are data to support neither. From the perspective of a freethinker, they are both bunk. You live, then you die. That's it, regardless of what are hopes are. Personally, I hope that's wrong, but there is no data to suggest otherwise.
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