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Thread: Why don't you believe in God

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    I call for a unity, a alignment of views, a declaration of intent. Mine. To continue to chip away and undermine religious zealots when I find them. That by pointing to the fuzzy logic of their beliefs can they be shown to be fooled. Taken in by a subversive and evil money grabbing sexual deviants, cripples that are so prevalent in religious society. It's what they call a 'abomination'.. against learning and education.. What am I talking of ? That some state ( USA) television broadcasters saw fit to cut from the 'Cosmos' program some 15 seconds of evolution.. WRONG, so very, very wrong. Do they not see that they mirror the burning bibles story, and that did not work either.. Fools, and Idiots must be kept away from education. I will not pull my punches in this regard. That the young impressional minds of students of learning must be protected from the narrow minded closed minds of the religiously indoctrinated.... ~ whew. I must remember to breath... I invite your views ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    I call for a unity, a alignment of views, a declaration of intent. Mine. To continue to chip away and undermine religious zealots when I find them. That by pointing to the fuzzy logic of their beliefs can they be shown to be fooled. Taken in by a subversive and evil money grabbing sexual deviants, cripples that are so prevalent in religious society. It's what they call a 'abomination'.. against learning and education.. What am I talking of ? That some state ( USA) television broadcasters saw fit to cut from the 'Cosmos' program some 15 seconds of evolution.. WRONG, so very, very wrong. Do they not see that they mirror the burning bibles story, and that did not work either.. Fools, and Idiots must be kept away from education. I will not pull my punches in this regard. That the young impressional minds of students of learning must be protected from the narrow minded closed minds of the religiously indoctrinated.... ~ whew. I must remember to breath... I invite your views ?
    Here.....have a Speedo....
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    Why i don't believe in God?

    I'll respond differently then the usual folks in here. I don't believe in God, mainly because of my genetics. Education is not that important actually. Natural section is selecting genes according to there ability to survive and reproduce, not for the ability to see the "real reality".

    There is an aspect of thinking that is hard wired in the brain. The brain has a hard wired ability to generalize from past experience. Education is the past experience, but how the brain extrapolates from them its wired, its genetically determined. This is how you have people that deduce different conclusions from the same data.

    One class of genes that are beneficial, are the ones that make individuals to be technically inclined. These individuals see everything like mechanisms and machines. Since i belong to that class of genes, in a very "impartial" way, i also think that this way of thinking is also, the actual "truth".

    An other class of genes that are also beneficial, are the ones that makes individuals to be sociable and like to talk to people, and like babies etc... These individuals are more likely to believe in god/gods. They are more likely to have magikal beliefs of some sort. They are stricktly speaking wrong, but there beliefs have no practical impact in there lives. If there beliefs colide with reality, they will amend them in a such a way so that there is no apparent contradiction. It doesn't mean they abandon there magical beliefs however. For example, a catholic, that did 3 abortions already, and is still a catholic, she's obviously practical and not following blindly a dogma.

    Obviously, the best practical solution for natural selection. Is to have both sets of genes. Its not possible to have the advantage of both at the same time. The two groups simply exchange there practical problems. I fix my girlfriends computer, she does the talking at the store....

    The third and last class of genes, are not very viable. These people have unshakable dogmas. For example a prolife catholic, no matter what. They aren't a lot of them around, simply because natural selection removes them from the gene pool.
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    To answer the first question, why don't I believe in a God, because logic has solved many things so far, if God did exist then He(with a capital H for people who do believe him) would explain less than logic has, so logic seems to be more of a god then God
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    Jesus Christ is Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Jesus Christ is Lord
    Some forums have rules regarding preaching. Maybe you are safe here.
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    ~ 'bsmitts' seems to be trying to tell us something. In the context intended, what is a Lord ? and can it be said this Jesus fellow was one.
    That the very same Jesus chap actually is reported to have said he was the 'Son of God'., or words to the same effect..regardless of all else it was a very unwise idea as in saying that he then seems to have gotten himself killed..
    All of which is a little confusing when you take on board that the Father being the same as the God then spoken of could have asserted just a very little of his well able power to save his only Son.. you would think, wouldn't you ? Knowing these things and thinking it amounts to parental abuse for not acting as he could have.. Oh well, and you come to a science forum and ask why I do not... Because it all seems so bloody stupid. Don't ya think.. ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Jesus Christ is Lord
    Lord who!
    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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    Jesus Christ died for you. The Bible tells me that he wants me to tell you that. He loves you. If I get kicked off of this forum for saying it. It is worth it to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Jesus Christ died for you. The Bible tells me that he wants me to tell you that. He loves you. If I get kicked off of this forum for saying it. It is worth it to me.
    since you brought it up, i have a few questions . . .

    what about the people that lived before jesus? were they all doomed to hell? and what about the people that lived after jesus died but never heard about it? you know, people on the other side of the globe from where jesus died? what happened to them? did they go to hell? do all Buddhists go to hell? before jesus, how did god determine who went to heaven and who went to hell? maybe heaven and hell didn't exist before jesus' time?

    why did jesus only heal a few people? why did he only heal those that were able to get in his face on the streets? why didn't jesus heal everyone and not just a few people? what about the people that were so ill they couldn't make it out on the street when jesus passed by? seems kind of unfair to me. seems like the son of a god could have done a bit better.

    these are pretty simple questions i have asked here. please give me your answers/thoughts on my questions. but you don't have to respond with one of these types of answers: 'god works in mysterious ways', 'man cannot comprehend the mind of god', 'the bible said so', 'you have to have faith', etc., etc..
    Last edited by Chucknorium; May 9th, 2014 at 01:12 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Jesus Christ died for you. The Bible tells me that he wants me to tell you that. He loves you. If I get kicked off of this forum for saying it. It is worth it to me.
    Nobody died for me! For what reason would someone need to die for me what have I personally done that is deserved of death. And why would anyone die in my stead.
    Anyhow if you're talking about a fictitious biblical jesus, he committed suicide, he knew he was going to his death and still went. and according to the bible he was resurrected not much of a death was it. Three days. The bible is just a book. It is after all the Greek word for book
    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    ~ 'bsmitts' seems to be trying to tell us something. In the context intended, what is a Lord ? and can it be said this Jesus fellow was one.
    That the very same Jesus chap actually is reported to have said he was the 'Son of God'., or words to the same effect..regardless of all else it was a very unwise idea as in saying that he then seems to have gotten himself killed..
    All of which is a little confusing when you take on board that the Father being the same as the God then spoken of could have asserted just a very little of his well able power to save his only Son.. you would think, wouldn't you ? Knowing these things and thinking it amounts to parental abuse for not acting as he could have.. Oh well, and you come to a science forum and ask why I do not... Because it all seems so bloody stupid. Don't ya think.. ?
    I take the word Lord to be similar to "King". So as a Christian in the Church of 1 (total congregation membership size = 1) I think of Jesus being my king, my Heavenly King.
    And God is over and above that maybe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Jesus Christ died for you. The Bible tells me that he wants me to tell you that. He loves you. If I get kicked off of this forum for saying it. It is worth it to me.
    Nobody died for me! For what reason would someone need to die for me what have I personally done that is deserved of death. And why would anyone die in my stead.
    Anyhow if you're talking about a fictitious biblical jesus, he committed suicide, he knew he was going to his death and still went. and according to the bible he was resurrected not much of a death was it. Three days. The bible is just a book. It is after all the Greek word for book
    Are you perfect in every way?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Jesus Christ died for you. The Bible tells me that he wants me to tell you that. He loves you. If I get kicked off of this forum for saying it. It is worth it to me.
    Nobody died for me! For what reason would someone need to die for me what have I personally done that is deserved of death. And why would anyone die in my stead.
    Anyhow if you're talking about a fictitious biblical jesus, he committed suicide, he knew he was going to his death and still went. and according to the bible he was resurrected not much of a death was it. Three days. The bible is just a book. It is after all the Greek word for book
    Are you perfect in every way?
    No far from it. Why would I need to be perfect, it doesn't follow.
    However my statement still stands. "Nobody died for me! For what reason would someone need to die for me what have I personally done that is deserved of death. And why would anyone die in my stead. "
    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    I think of Jesus being my king, my Heavenly King.
    And God is over and above that maybe.
    well then maybe you can answer these few simple questions . . .

    what about the people that lived before jesus? were they all doomed to hell? and what about the people that lived after jesus died but never heard about it? you know, people on the other side of the globe from where jesus died? what happened to them? did they go to hell? do all Buddhists go to hell? before jesus, how did god determine who went to heaven and who went to hell? maybe heaven and hell didn't exist before jesus' time?

    why did jesus only heal a few people? why did he only heal those that were able to get in his face on the streets? why didn't jesus heal everyone and not just a few people? what about the people that were so ill they couldn't make it out on the street when jesus passed by? seems kind of unfair to me. seems like the son of a god could have done a bit better.

    these are pretty simple questions i have asked here. please give me your answers/thoughts on my questions. but you don't have to respond with one of these types of answers: 'god works in mysterious ways', 'man cannot comprehend the mind of god', 'the bible said so', 'you have to have faith', etc., etc..
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    I call for a unity, a alignment of views, a declaration of intent. Mine. To continue to chip away and undermine religious zealots when I find them. That by pointing to the fuzzy logic of their beliefs can they be shown to be fooled. Taken in by a subversive and evil money grabbing sexual deviants, cripples that are so prevalent in religious society. It's what they call a 'abomination'.. against learning and education.. What am I talking of ? That some state ( USA) television broadcasters saw fit to cut from the 'Cosmos' program some 15 seconds of evolution.. WRONG, so very, very wrong. Do they not see that they mirror the burning bibles story, and that did not work either.. Fools, and Idiots must be kept away from education. I will not pull my punches in this regard. That the young impressional minds of students of learning must be protected from the narrow minded closed minds of the religiously indoctrinated.... ~ whew. I must remember to breath... I invite your views ?
    ~ I invite comment and have noted some are right on the button of 'my' understanding of the many issues of faith based indoctrinated religious views. I do return with a re posting of my original note just to show my absolute resolve to drive back the ignorance I see.. and that other threads are dealing with why you do believe and of other aspects of the greater religious discussions. If you want to save humanity this might not be the thread for you. " Why DON'T you believe in God" is a clear and direct question. Not a invitation to pursued the masses to a view not held.
    To expand a little of what my view are and why I have such resolve to spread my views is shown as a willingness to correct what I see as wrong.. False beliefs, Indoctrinated bullying, Thoughts of worthlessness and despair.. can all be drawn as weapons of assault of the religious doctrinal method .. When for the scientific method has so easily put aside any religious belief. It just becomes increasingly ridiculous as a truth is not found. Yet for some I see a concerning trend. "I know something know one else does.." God gave ME a message.. What ?
    Let me look at that for a moment; Your creator of the Universe. Has singled out you... to reply to and talk to.. Is that your belief ?
    Do you think that thousands of religious peoples world wide whom prey relentlessly are brushed aside and YOU are the receiver of such a sign.
    Can you see why I see this as ridiculous.. That feelings of paranoia are rampant among the religious... fair.
    It does not stop at this. The righteous indignation of some is astounding when you stop and ask them. What God, which one, How did or does, Where is this God and why can I not find him.. ? "Hullo".... is there any one there..?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    I think of Jesus being my king, my Heavenly King.
    And God is over and above that maybe.
    well then maybe you can answer these few simple questions . . .

    what about the people that lived before jesus? were they all doomed to hell? and what about the people that lived after jesus died but never heard about it? you know, people on the other side of the globe from where jesus died? what happened to them? did they go to hell? do all Buddhists go to hell? before jesus, how did god determine who went to heaven and who went to hell? maybe heaven and hell didn't exist before jesus' time?

    why did jesus only heal a few people? why did he only heal those that were able to get in his face on the streets? why didn't jesus heal everyone and not just a few people? what about the people that were so ill they couldn't make it out on the street when jesus passed by? seems kind of unfair to me. seems like the son of a god could have done a bit better.

    these are pretty simple questions i have asked here. please give me your answers/thoughts on my questions. but you don't have to respond with one of these types of answers: 'god works in mysterious ways', 'man cannot comprehend the mind of god', 'the bible said so', 'you have to have faith', etc., etc..
    In my opinion you worry too much, leave those aspects to God to sort out for it is too hard for a man to work out. I leave all issues of theology to God, for I'm sure he/she knows what he/she is doing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    I think of Jesus being my king, my Heavenly King.
    And God is over and above that maybe.
    well then maybe you can answer these few simple questions . . .

    what about the people that lived before jesus? were they all doomed to hell? and what about the people that lived after jesus died but never heard about it? you know, people on the other side of the globe from where jesus died? what happened to them? did they go to hell? do all Buddhists go to hell? before jesus, how did god determine who went to heaven and who went to hell? maybe heaven and hell didn't exist before jesus' time?

    why did jesus only heal a few people? why did he only heal those that were able to get in his face on the streets? why didn't jesus heal everyone and not just a few people? what about the people that were so ill they couldn't make it out on the street when jesus passed by? seems kind of unfair to me. seems like the son of a god could have done a bit better.

    these are pretty simple questions i have asked here. please give me your answers/thoughts on my questions. but you don't have to respond with one of these types of answers: 'god works in mysterious ways', 'man cannot comprehend the mind of god', 'the bible said so', 'you have to have faith', etc., etc..
    In my opinion you worry too much, leave those aspects to God to sort out for it is too hard for a man to work out. I leave all issues of theology to God, for I'm sure he/she knows what he/she is doing.
    i'm not worried. and you gave me the kind of namby-pamby answer that i expected.
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    I call for a unity, a alignment of views, a declaration of intent. Mine. To continue to chip away and undermine religious zealots when I find them. That by pointing to the fuzzy logic of their beliefs can they be shown to be fooled. Taken in by a subversive and evil money grabbing sexual deviants, cripples that are so prevalent in religious society. It's what they call a 'abomination'.. against learning and education.. What am I talking of ? That some state ( USA) television broadcasters saw fit to cut from the 'Cosmos' program some 15 seconds of evolution.. WRONG, so very, very wrong. Do they not see that they mirror the burning bibles story, and that did not work either.. Fools, and Idiots must be kept away from education. I will not pull my punches in this regard. That the young impressional minds of students of learning must be protected from the narrow minded closed minds of the religiously indoctrinated.... ~ whew. I must remember to breath... I invite your views ?
    ~ I invite comment and have noted some are right on the button of 'my' understanding of the many issues of faith based indoctrinated religious views. I do return with a re posting of my original note just to show my absolute resolve to drive back the ignorance I see.. and that other threads are dealing with why you do believe and of other aspects of the greater religious discussions. If you want to save humanity this might not be the thread for you. " Why DON'T you believe in God" is a clear and direct question. Not a invitation to pursued the masses to a view not held.
    To expand a little of what my view are and why I have such resolve to spread my views is shown as a willingness to correct what I see as wrong.. False beliefs, Indoctrinated bullying, Thoughts of worthlessness and despair.. can all be drawn as weapons of assault of the religious doctrinal method .. When for the scientific method has so easily put aside any religious belief. It just becomes increasingly ridiculous as a truth is not found. Yet for some I see a concerning trend. "I know something know one else does.." God gave ME a message.. What ?
    Let me look at that for a moment; Your creator of the Universe. Has singled out you... to reply to and talk to.. Is that your belief ?
    Do you think that thousands of religious peoples world wide whom prey relentlessly are brushed aside and YOU are the receiver of such a sign.
    Can you see why I see this as ridiculous.. That feelings of paranoia are rampant among the religious... fair.
    It does not stop at this. The righteous indignation of some is astounding when you stop and ask them. What God, which one, How did or does, Where is this God and why can I not find him.. ? "Hullo".... is there any one there..?
    Throughout history there have been the occasional person who goes all out in the search of the truth, I don't know them all but people like Jesus, Buddha, Zoroaster, and Mohammed maybe. It takes a certain amount of foolishness to achieve this. Fasting, sitting in caves, sitting under the tree until it comes to you, whatever you decide to do.
    Whether I went the same distance, who knows, but I did experience the edges of something, but it is a scary place for your relations will think you are mad.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhamma...rst_revelation
    Muhammad (S.A.W) was born and raised in Mecca. When He was nearly 40, he used to spend many hours alone in prayer and speculating over the aspects of creation.[2] He was concerned with the social unrest, injustice, widespread discrimination (particularly against women), fighting among tribes and abuse of tribal authorities prevalent in pre-Islamic Arabia.[3] The moral degeneration of his fellow people, and his own quest for a true religion further lent fuel to this, with the result that he now began to withdraw periodically to a cave named Mount Hira, three miles north of Mecca, for contemplation and reflection.
    The story of Jesus fasting 40 days and night is well known.
    Matthew 4:1-11

    New International Version (NIV)

    Jesus Is Tested in the Wilderness

    4 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted[a] by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
    4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’[b]
    5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
    “‘He will command his angels concerning you,
    and they will lift you up in their hands,
    so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’[c]

    7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’[d]
    8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
    10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[e]

    11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

    And who doesn't know about Buddha sitting under his tree? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha#Awakening
    In a famous incident, after becoming starved and weakened, he is said to have accepted milk and rice pudding from a village girl named Sujata.[web 7]Such was his emaciated appearance that she wrongly believed him to be a spirit that had granted her a wish.[web 7]
    Following this incident, Gautama was famously seated under a pipal tree—now known as the Bodhi tree—in Bodh Gaya, India, when he vowed never to arise until he had found the truth.[50]

    So if you said, "I'm going to sit down at Castlecliff Beach and let the seagulls feed me, and I'm not moving till I know the truth", do you think God is going to let you starve to death?
    But whatever the seagulls bring you, you had better eat it.
    Last edited by Robittybob1; May 9th, 2014 at 06:18 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    ....
    i'm not worried. and you gave me the kind of namby-pamby answer that i expected.
    Well what is your answer, and why do you expect me to know the facts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    ....
    i'm not worried. and you gave me the kind of namby-pamby answer that i expected.
    Well what is your answer, and why do you expect me to know the facts.
    come on Rob. i asked you the questions about your religion (Christianity). i figured you would know. i surely don't know. that's why i asked the questions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    ....
    i'm not worried. and you gave me the kind of namby-pamby answer that i expected.
    Well what is your answer, and why do you expect me to know the facts.
    come on Rob. i asked you the questions about your religion (Christianity). i figured you would know. i surely don't know. that's why i asked the questions.
    There would be a million guesses as to the answer to that question if you went and asked a million different theologians. No one knows the answer to that, so my answer is a good one, and easy on me as a disciple of Christ, so I say "I'll leave that up to him to sort out".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    ....
    i'm not worried. and you gave me the kind of namby-pamby answer that i expected.
    Well what is your answer, and why do you expect me to know the facts.
    come on Rob. i asked you the questions about your religion (Christianity). i figured you would know. i surely don't know. that's why i asked the questions.
    There would be a million guesses as to the answer to that question if you went and asked a million different theologians. No one knows the answer to that, so my answer is a good one, and easy on me as a disciple of Christ, so I say "I'll leave that up to him to sort out".
    oh all right. i'll let you off the hook. but you could ask god in one of your dreams/visions, couldn't you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    oh all right. i'll let you off the hook. but you could ask god in one of your dreams/visions, couldn't you?
    Have you been reading the other thread? Do you remember what the criteria was? Remember, something simple, I just had to get one person to believe the previous bit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    oh all right. i'll let you off the hook. but you could ask god in one of your dreams/visions, couldn't you?
    Have you been reading the other thread? Do you remember what the criteria was? Remember, something simple, I just had to get one person to believe the previous bit.
    yes, i have. i think i read somewhere that new evidence shows that jesus was not a carpenter. he was actually a shrubber. i'll try to find that reference . . . .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    yes, i have. i think i read somewhere that new evidence shows that jesus was not a carpenter. he was actually a shrubber. i'll try to find that reference . . . .
    He certainly makes references to the art of grafting, pruning, sowing, weeding and fertilising. Maybe he did have green fingers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    So if you said, "I'm going to sit down at Castlecliff Beach and let the seagulls feed me, and I'm not moving till I know the truth", do you think God is going to let you starve to death?
    But whatever the seagulls bring you, you had better eat it.
    Just in case you think it can't be done:
    1 Kings 17
    Elijah Fed by Ravens

    2 Then the word of the Lord came to Elijah: 3 “Leave here, turn eastward and hide in the Kerith Ravine, east of the Jordan. 4 You will drink from the brook, and I have directed the ravens to supply you with food there.”
    5 So he did what the Lord had told him. He went to the Kerith Ravine, east of the Jordan, and stayed there.6 The ravens brought him bread and meat in the morning and bread and meat in the evening, and he drank from the brook.
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    What a wonderful example of the hypocrisy I expect from the Bible.. That the story is told as has been said; Go to this place and the ravens will feed you.. and he did and they did.. Hmmm... The result of such a experiment locally would be.. Exposure and death or if I get lucky I will awake in a hospital bed with some policeman or social worker asking what the f... was I doing out there ?
    ~ In a post that is asking why you DO NOT believe in a God it seems silly that you might expect me to have any respect for biblical quotes..
    I do not. I brush it aside as compiled ignorance. The construct of men to control other men. All of which is a sad indictment, but true.
    I can be tolerant of the religious view, but I find no truth in it. I opened this forum to prob the resolve of other atheists. Not to be exposed to a attempt at persuasion towards a doctrine I do not find as truth. You are wasting your time in any attempt to convey why you are religious or why I should except any of it as true. I do not. I have tried to understand the doctrines of christian faith. I reject them as lies. Remember; Why don't...
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    What a wonderful example of the hypocrisy I expect from the Bible.. That the story is told as has been said; Go to this place and the ravens will feed you.. and he did and they did.. Hmmm... The result of such a experiment locally would be.. Exposure and death or if I get lucky I will awake in a hospital bed with some policeman or social worker asking what the f... was I doing out there ?
    ~ In a post that is asking why you DO NOT believe in a God it seems silly that you might expect me to have any respect for biblical quotes..
    I do not. I brush it aside as compiled ignorance. The construct of men to control other men. All of which is a sad indictment, but true.
    I can be tolerant of the religious view, but I find no truth in it. I opened this forum to prob the resolve of other atheists. Not to be exposed to a attempt at persuasion towards a doctrine I do not find as truth. You are wasting your time in any attempt to convey why you are religious or why I should except any of it as true. I do not. I have tried to understand the doctrines of christian faith. I reject them as lies. Remember; Why don't...
    I know how you feel Mark but I was attempting to answer the questions you posed earlier:
    What ?
    Let me look at that for a moment; Your creator of the Universe. Has singled out you... to reply to and talk to.. Is that your belief ?
    Do you think that thousands of religious peoples world wide whom prey relentlessly are brushed aside and YOU are the receiver of such a sign.
    Can you see why I see this as ridiculous.. That feelings of paranoia are rampant among the religious... fair.
    It does not stop at this. The righteous indignation of some is astounding when you stop and ask them. What God, which one, How did or does, Where is this God and why can I not find him.. ? "Hullo".... is there any one there..?
    So I was showing you a possible method to get the attention you were wanting.
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    Luke 10:10-11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Luke 10:10-11
    "Blessed are the cheesemakers".
    Aha, what's so special about the cheesemakers?
    Well, obviously it's not meant to be taken literally; it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Luke 10: 10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
    11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

    And what would you gain by doing that. It would only fall on deaf ears, sensible people do not listen to imaginings.
    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Luke 10:10-11
    How does this fit in?
    10 But when you enter a town and are not welcomed, go into its streets and say,11 ‘Even the dust of your town we wipe from our feet as a warning to you. Yet be sure of this: The kingdom of God has come near.’
    Mark it wouldn't have been that much fun sitting on the beach last night! Did the seagulls bring anything to eat this morning?
    Last edited by Robittybob1; May 10th, 2014 at 03:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Luke 10: 10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
    11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

    And what would you gain by doing that. It would only fall on deaf ears, sensible people do not listen to imaginings.
    Some listen to politicians.
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    Sitting on Castle Cliff Beach over night and expecting a seagull to share... That is not the manor of a seagull or I.. I did entertain thirty five people who wondered into the Ward Observatory and It being such a clear and fresh night we viewed things of reality.. Jupiter, Mars, Saturn, and Moon..
    All lined up for the viewing. That the temp., got down to 6 deg cent., I wonder where those seagulls sleep ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Luke 10: 10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
    11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

    And what would you gain by doing that. It would only fall on deaf ears, sensible people do not listen to imaginings.
    Some listen to politicians.
    Only if they talk sense!
    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Luke 10: 10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
    11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

    And what would you gain by doing that. It would only fall on deaf ears, sensible people do not listen to imaginings.
    Some listen to politicians.
    Only if they talk sense!
    Well who's right in Ukraine? Both sides are talking sense but from different viewpoints. What does "The Lord of Lords", or "The King of Kings" have to say about the situation? That would be interesting to know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Luke 10: 10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
    11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

    And what would you gain by doing that. It would only fall on deaf ears, sensible people do not listen to imaginings.
    Some listen to politicians.
    Only if they talk sense!
    Well who's right in Ukraine? Both sides are talking sense but from different viewpoints.
    Sorry nobody is talking sense if they're willing to kill each other
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    What does "The Lord of Lords", or "The King of Kings" have to say about the situation? That would be interesting to know.
    It would probably be kill kill kill. That's it's usual way to solve problems.
    Robittybob1 likes this.
    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    .... What does "The Lord of Lords", or "The King of Kings" have to say about the situation? That would be interesting to know.
    It would probably be kill kill kill. That's it's usual way to solve problems.[/QUOTE]
    It has been said "Thou shalt not murder". But the Israelis still selected men for their armies and expected the soldiers to kill their enemies. So killing your enemies isn't murder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Jesus Christ died for you. The Bible tells me that he wants me to tell you that. He loves you. If I get kicked off of this forum for saying it. It is worth it to me.
    since you brought it up, i have a few questions . . .

    what about the people that lived before jesus? were they all doomed to hell? and what about the people that lived after jesus died but never heard about it? you know, people on the other side of the globe from where jesus died? what happened to them? did they go to hell? do all Buddhists go to hell? before jesus, how did god determine who went to heaven and who went to hell? maybe heaven and hell didn't exist before jesus' time?

    why did jesus only heal a few people? why did he only heal those that were able to get in his face on the streets? why didn't jesus heal everyone and not just a few people? what about the people that were so ill they couldn't make it out on the street when jesus passed by? seems kind of unfair to me. seems like the son of a god could have done a bit better.

    these are pretty simple questions i have asked here. please give me your answers/thoughts on my questions. but you don't have to respond with one of these types of answers: 'god works in mysterious ways', 'man cannot comprehend the mind of god', 'the bible said so', 'you have to have faith', etc., etc..

    The Bible says somewhere that to whom much is given, much is required of them. Those who never had an opportunity to believe would not be held responsible for it. As far as why Jesus did not heal everyone is this. Not everyone believed in him, even when they saw the miracles he performed with their own eyes. There is a story in the bible where an ill woman could see Jesus in the middle of a huge crowd of people. She desperately made her way towards him knowing that he could heal her. She said, "If only I could touch the very hem of his garment, I would be healed. She finally reached him and touched his robe. Jesus knew that someone had done this without seeing it. he said "who touched me, for he felt virtue leave his body?" The people were astonished that he had said this because he was surrounded by people clinging to him. They said "all these people are around him, yet he says "who touched me?" You see, this woman had faith in him, and he knew. He told the woman, "woman, your faith has made you whole."
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    Sitting on Castle Cliff Beach over night and expecting a seagull to share... That is not the manor of a seagull or I.. I did entertain thirty five people who wondered into the Ward Observatory and It being such a clear and fresh night we viewed things of reality.. Jupiter, Mars, Saturn, and Moon..
    All lined up for the viewing. That the temp., got down to 6 deg cent., I wonder where those seagulls sleep ?
    Don't worry....they find a place.....and for lunch too.....and targets also.....wear a hat!
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    luke 10: 10 but into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
    11 even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: Notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of god is come nigh unto you.

    and what would you gain by doing that. It would only fall on deaf ears, sensible people do not listen to imaginings.
    some listen to politicians.
    only if they talk sense!

    impossible!!
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    Without having heard of Jesus, one has the opportunity to believe. I really have no more to say about it here, but thank you to those who have been polite with me. You're views are your own, and I am not judging you for them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Luke 10: 10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
    11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

    And what would you gain by doing that. It would only fall on deaf ears, sensible people do not listen to imaginings.
    Jesus and his disiples healed the sick in those days and people saw it. it wasn't imaginings.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Jesus Christ died for you. The Bible tells me that he wants me to tell you that. He loves you. If I get kicked off of this forum for saying it. It is worth it to me.
    since you brought it up, i have a few questions . . .

    what about the people that lived before jesus? were they all doomed to hell? and what about the people that lived after jesus died but never heard about it? you know, people on the other side of the globe from where jesus died? what happened to them? did they go to hell? do all Buddhists go to hell? before jesus, how did god determine who went to heaven and who went to hell? maybe heaven and hell didn't exist before jesus' time?

    why did jesus only heal a few people? why did he only heal those that were able to get in his face on the streets? why didn't jesus heal everyone and not just a few people? what about the people that were so ill they couldn't make it out on the street when jesus passed by? seems kind of unfair to me. seems like the son of a god could have done a bit better.

    these are pretty simple questions i have asked here. please give me your answers/thoughts on my questions. but you don't have to respond with one of these types of answers: 'god works in mysterious ways', 'man cannot comprehend the mind of god', 'the bible said so', 'you have to have faith', etc., etc..

    The Bible says somewhere that to whom much is given, much is required of them. Those who never had an opportunity to believe would not be held responsible for it. As far as why Jesus did not heal everyone is this. Not everyone believed in him, even when they saw the miracles he performed with their own eyes. There is a story in the bible where an ill woman could see Jesus in the middle of a huge crowd of people. She desperately made her way towards him knowing that he could heal her. She said, "If only I could touch the very hem of his garment, I would be healed. She finally reached him and touched his robe. Jesus knew that someone had done this without seeing it. he said "who touched me, for he felt virtue leave his body?" The people were astonished that he had said this because he was surrounded by people clinging to him. They said "all these people are around him, yet he says "who touched me?" You see, this woman had faith in him, and he knew. He told the woman, "woman, your faith has made you whole."
    So, Jesus only healed the ones that believed in him and let the others suffer. That's nice. What a kind compassionate man. And he couldn't be bothered to go and seek out those that were sick -- they had to come crawling to him. And even if they were able to crawl up the the great man, if they didn't 'believe' then no cure. Very nice indeed.

    And everyone who lived before Jesus or after Jesus but didn't know -- they all received a 'get out of Hell free' card. Great. Once again, very fair.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Jesus and his disiples healed the sick in those days and people saw it.
    Allegedly.

    it wasn't imaginings.
    Really?
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pavlos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Luke 10: 10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
    11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

    And what would you gain by doing that. It would only fall on deaf ears, sensible people do not listen to imaginings.
    Jesus and his disiples healed the sick in those days and people saw it. it wasn't imaginings.
    And what extra biblical evidence do have to verify this?
    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Jesus and his disiples healed the sick in those days and people saw it. it wasn't imaginings.
    Sort of like the thousands of people who have seen UFOs and some that claim they were abducted and probed by aliens?
    Sort of like the hundreds of people who have seen bigfoot?
    Sort of like the people who see the image of Mary on a pancake?
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    I think I passed the test!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    ...
    So, Jesus only healed the ones that believed in him and let the others suffer. That's nice. What a kind compassionate man. And he couldn't be bothered to go and seek out those that were sick -- they had to come crawling to him. And even if they were able to crawl up the the great man, if they didn't 'believe' then no cure. Very nice indeed.

    And everyone who lived before Jesus or after Jesus but didn't know -- they all received a 'get out of Hell free' card. Great. Once again, very fair.
    I warned you that you'd get many and varied answers to that question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Jesus and his disiples healed the sick in those days and people saw it. it wasn't imaginings.
    Sort of like the thousands of people who have seen UFOs and some that claim they were abducted and probed by aliens?
    Sort of like the hundreds of people who have seen bigfoot?
    Sort of like the people who see the image of Mary on a pancake?
    No, No, No. Three nos in a row.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Jesus and his disiples healed the sick in those days and people saw it. it wasn't imaginings.
    Sort of like the thousands of people who have seen UFOs and some that claim they were abducted and probed by aliens?
    Sort of like the hundreds of people who have seen bigfoot?
    Sort of like the people who see the image of Mary on a pancake?
    No, No, No. Three nos in a row.
    Why?
    What's the difference?
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Jesus and his disiples healed the sick in those days and people saw it. it wasn't imaginings.
    Sort of like the thousands of people who have seen UFOs and some that claim they were abducted and probed by aliens?
    Sort of like the hundreds of people who have seen bigfoot?
    Sort of like the people who see the image of Mary on a pancake?
    No, No, No. Three nos in a row.
    Why?
    What's the difference?
    There is a big difference between a UFO, a bigfoot, a pancake and Jesus' miracles.
    They were people that lived in the community, one day they were cripples, next day they were well, only difference was that Jesus had appeared on the scene. It was a mighty coincidence that these incidences of spontaneous recoveries happened wherever he went. No wonder they blamed Jesus for these coincidences.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    There is a big difference between a UFO, a bigfoot, a pancake and Jesus' miracles.
    They were people that lived in the community, one day they were cripples, next day they were well, only difference was that Jesus had appeared on the scene. It was a mighty coincidence that these coincidences of spontaneous recoveries happened wherever he went. No wonder they blamed Jesus for these coincidences.
    And wrong again.
    For you to claim that "one day they were cripples, next day they were well" as substantiation you'd have to show that these tales are in fact true.
    You're relying on hearsay.
    There is no substantive difference in the claims.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    You're relying on hearsay.
    Which isn't even acceptable in a court of law, much less in the world of science.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    There is a big difference between a UFO, a bigfoot, a pancake and Jesus' miracles.
    They were people that lived in the community, one day they were cripples, next day they were well, only difference was that Jesus had appeared on the scene. It was a mighty coincidence that these coincidences of spontaneous recoveries happened wherever he went. No wonder they blamed Jesus for these coincidences.
    And wrong again.
    For you to claim that "one day they were cripples, next day they were well" as substantiation you'd have to show that these tales are in fact true.
    You're relying on hearsay.
    There is no substantive difference in the claims.
    You could be wrong if I was more than 2032 years old! For then I could have seen it with my own eyes, being a type of Melchizedek.
    You seem to want this extraordinary proof of something that happen years ago but can't say how that evidence could have ever been preserved for that long. What could have been done other than write about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    You're relying on hearsay.
    Which isn't even acceptable in a court of law, much less in the world of science.
    Like you'd want a signed declaration as like this, "These are the words of Jesus ....", and it being signed at the end in his own hand writing. Would that be evidence enough?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    You could be wrong if I was more than 2032 years old! For then I could have seen it with my own eyes, .
    And of course we would all immediately believe you.

    I don't believe people today who say they have actually seen aliens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Where is her testimony?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    You're relying on hearsay.
    Which isn't even acceptable in a court of law, much less in the world of science.
    Like you'd want a signed declaration as like this, "These are the words of Jesus ....", and it being signed at the end in his own hand writing. Would that be evidence enough?
    No. Jesus was just another guy back then. His word is no better than anyone else's.

    Would you believe it if I told you there are invisible flying leprechauns in my backyard, even if I wrote a paper and signed it?
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    Rob, there is no scientific proof that your god exists. There is no scientific proof that jesus was the son of your god. There is no scientific proof of any of the old or new testament miracles. So, i do not believe that your god exists -- or anything that follows from that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    You're relying on hearsay.
    Which isn't even acceptable in a court of law, much less in the world of science.
    Like you'd want a signed declaration as like this, "These are the words of Jesus ....", and it being signed at the end in his own hand writing. Would that be evidence enough?
    No. Jesus was just another guy back then. His word is no better than anyone else's.

    Would you believe it if I told you there are invisible flying leprechauns in my backyard, even if I wrote a paper and signed it?
    Yes if you show me the signed bit of paper along with a pic from your iphone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    You're relying on hearsay.
    Which isn't even acceptable in a court of law, much less in the world of science.
    Like you'd want a signed declaration as like this, "These are the words of Jesus ....", and it being signed at the end in his own hand writing. Would that be evidence enough?
    No. Jesus was just another guy back then. His word is no better than anyone else's.

    Would you believe it if I told you there are invisible flying leprechauns in my backyard, even if I wrote a paper and signed it?
    Yes if you show me the signed bit of paper along with a pic from your iphone.
    OK, here is a picture:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Rob, there is no scientific proof that your god exists. There is no scientific proof that jesus was the son of your god. There is no scientific proof of any of the old or new testament miracles. So, i do not believe that your god exists -- or anything that follows from that.
    What if I could do the miracles as Jesus did, would that do? That was what I set out to achieve years ago, but things got in the way.
    Jesus and John twin brothers remember, so what do you mean by Jesus being a son of God? Was then John a son of the same God too?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Rob, there is no scientific proof that your god exists. There is no scientific proof that jesus was the son of your god. There is no scientific proof of any of the old or new testament miracles. So, i do not believe that your god exists -- or anything that follows from that.
    What if I could do the miracles as Jesus did, would that do? That was what I set out to achieve years ago, but things got in the way.
    Jesus and John twin brothers remember, so what do you mean by Jesus being a son of God? Was then John a son of the same God too?
    I just hate it when the tedium of everyday life gets in the way of my apotheosis.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    You could be wrong if I was more than 2032 years old! For then I could have seen it with my own eyes, .
    And of course we would all immediately believe you.

    I don't believe people today who say they have actually seen aliens.
    I haven't seen aliens but my girlfriend and I saw a UFO in 1975.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    Where is her testimony?
    She can't type too well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    You could be wrong if I was more than 2032 years old! For then I could have seen it with my own eyes, .
    And of course we would all immediately believe you.

    I don't believe people today who say they have actually seen aliens.
    I haven't seen aliens but my girlfriend and I saw a UFO in 1975.
    Aliens is great, my favorite sequel to the original Alien.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Rob, there is no scientific proof that your god exists. There is no scientific proof that jesus was the son of your god. There is no scientific proof of any of the old or new testament miracles. So, i do not believe that your god exists -- or anything that follows from that.
    What if I could do the miracles as Jesus did, would that do? That was what I set out to achieve years ago, but things got in the way.
    Jesus and John twin brothers remember, so what do you mean by Jesus being a son of God? Was then John a son of the same God too?
    I just hate it when the tedium of everyday life gets in the way of my apotheosis.
    Thanks for the new word "apotheosis"
    In theology, the term apotheosis refers to the idea that an individual has been raised to godlike stature.
    from Wikipedia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    What if I could do the miracles as Jesus did, would that do? That was what I set out to achieve years ago, but things got in the way.
    Now you are making me laugh. I needed that.

    Yeah, I was planning on flying to Saturn with these wings I made but things got in the way.

    Rob, science doesn't work like you think it does. A scientist cannot just make a proclamation that cold fusion works in his lab, even if he and 20 other scientists sign a paper that it is true and they all witnessed it. Science doesn't work like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    What if I could do the miracles as Jesus did, would that do? That was what I set out to achieve years ago, but things got in the way.
    Now you are making me laugh. I needed that.

    Yeah, I was planning on flying to Saturn with these wings I made but things got in the way.

    Rob, science doesn't work like you think it does. A scientist cannot just make a proclamation that cold fusion works in his lab, even if he and 20 other scientists sign a paper that it is true and they all witnessed it. Science doesn't work like that.
    Don't you think I find it just as frustrating that we are told about these miracles happening then and years later when we need them in our own lives we don't know how to do it.
    My kids were albino, and therefore had poor eyesight, nothing medically can be done, but I could read how Jesus healed the blind.
    No one on this Earth wanted it to be true more than me, and no one would be willing to do more than me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Don't you think I find it just as frustrating that we are told about these miracles happening then and years later when we need them in our own lives we don't know how to do it.
    My kids were albino, and therefore had poor eyesight, nothing medically can be done, but I could read how Jesus healed the blind.
    No one on this Earth wanted it to be true more than me, and no one would be willing to do more than me.
    Rob, you seem like a nice guy. You don't get angry easily and you are persistent -- both good traits. I don't want to make you angry.

    It's not just a lack of scientific proof that keeps me from believing in your god. It's the things that he allows to happen (if he exists). Awful things. Your children's problems. Other people's problems. Deaths. Tortures. Rapes. Beatings. Molestations. Wars. Bombings. Starvations. Even wildlife deaths. Natural disasters. Horrible things. I just can't believe there is someone up there running this show. If there is a god, then he's an a-hole.
    Last edited by Chucknorium; May 11th, 2014 at 03:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    You could be wrong if I was more than 2032 years old! For then I could have seen it with my own eyes, being a type of Melchizedek.
    If you were 2032 years old then you'd allegedly have seen it with your own.
    Or not.

    You seem to want this extraordinary proof of something that happen years ago but can't say how that evidence could have ever been preserved for that long. What could have been done other than write about it.
    And here you're simply showing that you uncritically accept that it DID happen and that it's a fact that the written "testimony" is correct.
    If Lord of the Rings is still in publication in 2000 years' time should we take that as "proof" it's true?
    Oh wait, should we accept Zeus as being real? After all we've still got written stuff about him after nearly 3000 years. Not even mentioning two a couple of name checks in the Bible.

    Like you'd want a signed declaration as like this, "These are the words of Jesus ....", and it being signed at the end in his own hand writing. Would that be evidence enough?
    Uh duh.
    How would we know it was his handwriting?
    Last edited by Dywyddyr; May 11th, 2014 at 03:32 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    My kids were albino, and therefore had poor eyesight, nothing medically can be done, but I could read how Jesus healed the blind.
    No one on this Earth wanted it to be true more than me, and no one would be willing to do more than me.
    That tugs at my heart. I wish there was a god, or a son of a god, that could make that right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    You could be wrong if I was more than 2032 years old! For then I could have seen it with my own eyes, being a type of Melchizedek.
    If you were 2032 years old then you'd allegedly have seen it with your own.
    Or not.

    You seem to want this extraordinary proof of something that happen years ago but can't say how that evidence could have ever been preserved for that long. What could have been done other than write about it.
    And here you're simply showing that you uncritically accept that it DID happen and that the fact that the written "testimony" is correct.
    If Lord of the Rings is still in publication in 2000 years' time should we take that as "proof" it's true?
    Oh wait, should we accept Zeus as being real? After all we've still got written stuff about him after nearly 3000 years. Not even mentioning two a couple of name checks in the Bible.

    Like you'd want a signed declaration as like this, "These are the words of Jesus ....", and it being signed at the end in his own hand writing. Would that be evidence enough?
    Uh duh.
    How would we know it was his handwriting?
    Would you be happy with before and after photos? Jesus miraculously invents an Iphone so someone could taken snapshots of the miracles in action. Would that do it?

    Would the digital record still be readable after that length of time?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Would you be happy with before and after photos?
    Rob, I've seen hundreds of photos and videos taken of supposed UFOs and none of them are convincing. Also pics of Bigfoot and Nessie -- also not convincing.
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    ~ We talk of proofs shown as if we can trust the compiled miss interpretations of biblical references provided.. I can not.
    Written by whom and compiled by, unknown, and interpreted and translations by, So many chances to get it wrong and that it is.. wrong I have little doubt. I draw a similarly - Did the Americans land on the Moon ? has anyone else been there ? How many ? That these questions get asked and are heard is of some amusement to me. How could you not know these things. That we educate our young to what degree can we be pleased.. no. Where is God, and how could there be ? are questions I do NOT hear and should.. that concerns me. The fundamental rule of the scientific principal. I want to know, to test, to challenge, To question and challenge. To form from a knowledge base a theory, or even just a hypothesis.. Science.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Would you be happy with before and after photos?
    Rob, I've seen hundreds of photos and videos taken of supposed UFOs and none of them are convincing. Also pics of Bigfoot and Nessie -- also not convincing.
    I have been unable to think up what evidence should have been kept. I suppose a transcription of Jesus' trial would have been quite good.
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    I have albinism in the eyes. I wear prescription sunglasses, always.

    I dislike the tex here because it's hard to read.

    :EDIT:

    My monitor is also it's highest resolution.
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    ~ We talk of proofs shown as if we can trust the compiled miss interpretations of biblical references provided.. I can not.
    Written by whom and compiled by, unknown, and interpreted and translations by, So many chances to get it wrong and that it is.. wrong I have little doubt. I draw a similarly - Did the Americans land on the Moon ? has anyone else been there ? How many ? That these questions get asked and are heard is of some amusement to me. How could you not know these things. That we educate our young to what degree can we be pleased.. no. Where is God, and how could there be ? are questions I do NOT hear and should.. that concerns me. The fundamental rule of the scientific principal. I want to know, to test, to challenge, To question and challenge. To form from a knowledge base a theory, or even just a hypothesis.. Science.
    I saw part of a record Mark OK it was a vision, but there were facts in there that amazed me, even with the two sentences I was able to read. Where do I go from here? I can't force myself to have another vision just as you can't force yourself to dream of food and women.
    We sit and wait, or do we work?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Would you be happy with before and after photos? Jesus miraculously invents an Iphone so someone could taken snapshots of the miracles in action. Would that do it?
    Um yeah.
    And what's to say that they wouldn't be photoshopped?

    And here you're simply showing that you uncritically accept that it DID happen and that it's a fact that the written "testimony" is correct.
    If Lord of the Rings is still in publication in 2000 years' time should we take that as "proof" it's true?
    Oh wait, should we accept Zeus as being real? After all we've still got written stuff about him after nearly 3000 years. Not even mentioning two a couple of name checks in the Bible.
    Still waiting...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    I saw part of a record Mark OK it was a vision, but there were facts in there that amazed me
    Oh wait.
    Would these "amazing facts" have the same actual basis as your last "vision" - i.e. none whatsoever?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    I saw part of a record Mark OK it was a vision, but there were facts in there that amazed me
    Oh wait.
    Would these "amazing facts" have the same actual basis as your last "vision" - i.e. none whatsoever?
    Nothing will ever please you Dwyddyr.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Would you be happy with before and after photos? Jesus miraculously invents an Iphone so someone could taken snapshots of the miracles in action. Would that do it?
    Um yeah.
    And what's to say that they wouldn't be photoshopped?

    And here you're simply showing that you uncritically accept that it DID happen and that it's a fact that the written "testimony" is correct.
    If Lord of the Rings is still in publication in 2000 years' time should we take that as "proof" it's true?
    Oh wait, should we accept Zeus as being real? After all we've still got written stuff about him after nearly 3000 years. Not even mentioning two a couple of name checks in the Bible.
    Still waiting...
    I don't think I could add to that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibelieve View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SkinWalker
    But keeping the discussion within the forum guidelines for the scientific study of religion, the universe behaves and appears exactly as we might expect if the there were no gods in it.
    Perhaps this is the illusion God wanted to create?
    Can any one define what GOD is and where do you find God if so enlighten me as all I ever see when people embrace this belief is death
    by jihad
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Jesus Christ is Lord
    Can you explain this meaning ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Jesus Christ is Lord
    Can you explain this meaning ?
    He could mean Lord of the Dance. No wait . . . that's Michael Flatley. Unless Michael Flatley is Jesus. No wait . . . that's not right. Maybe he means Lord of the Rings. No wait . . . that is Sauron. Sauron is closer to the Devil than Jesus. Maybe . . . maybe he means Lord of the Flies. No wait . . . that was a pig head. Maybe . . . .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Jesus Christ is Lord
    Can you explain this meaning ?
    He could mean Lord of the Dance. No wait . . . that's Michael Flatley. Unless Michael Flatley is Jesus. No wait . . . that's not right. Maybe he means Lord of the Rings. No wait . . . that is Sauron. Sauron is closer to the Devil than Jesus. Maybe . . . maybe he means Lord of the Flies. No wait . . . that was a pig head. Maybe . . . .
    Maybe we might get a big surprise, hope he's not lord Vader, that could be a problem
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsmitts View Post
    Jesus Christ is Lord
    Can you explain this meaning ?
    He could mean Lord of the Dance. No wait . . . that's Michael Flatley. Unless Michael Flatley is Jesus. No wait . . . that's not right. Maybe he means Lord of the Rings. No wait . . . that is Sauron. Sauron is closer to the Devil than Jesus. Maybe . . . maybe he means Lord of the Flies. No wait . . . that was a pig head. Maybe . . . .
    Maybe we might get a big surprise, hope he's not lord Vader, that could be a problem
    Yes. That could hurt.

    Maybe he means Lord of War. No wait . . . that's God of War and that is Mars. Maybe he means Lord Fauntleroy . . . .or Lord Mountbatten . . . or . . . .
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    Guess we will have to wait with baited breath for the answer, All excited now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
    Guess we will have to wait with baited breath for the answer, All excited now.
    If we're lucky, he won't come back and tell us. I can already hear that sermon . . . .
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    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    ~ 'bsmitts' seems to be trying to tell us something. In the context intended, what is a Lord ? and can it be said this Jesus fellow was one.
    That the very same Jesus chap actually is reported to have said he was the 'Son of God'., or words to the same effect..regardless of all else it was a very unwise idea as in saying that he then seems to have gotten himself killed..
    All of which is a little confusing when you take on board that the Father being the same as the God then spoken of could have asserted just a very little of his well able power to save his only Son.. you would think, wouldn't you ? Knowing these things and thinking it amounts to parental abuse for not acting as he could have.. Oh well, and you come to a science forum and ask why I do not... Because it all seems so bloody stupid. Don't ya think.. ?
    Although I like your reasoning, I do not think everyone can see it from your perspective. It makes no sense to look at anyone's choice and make it your own, you cannot live anthers life. The way this person has based his life is not the way you have based yours. The thing is, his logic works for him as yours works for you. Maybe you might be able to make a break through, however the same goes for him, he cannot make a breakthrough to you so easily.

    If he is to recover himself and make a choice to see your point, he needs a shock, so would you. What say ye?
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    Yes to Stargates view.. and to add... That a realization that you can not amend the blind faithful from the indoctrinated paths they are locked onto.. any point made is swept aside as wrong or ignored as a irrelevant subject.
    The only way forward is to inform and back up with science.. To present a realization that faith is NOT a science fact or theory.
    Only the scientific method allows for testing and revue.. Faith does actually bypass reality. Until the subject see's the venerability of faith based thought, you are screwed..
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