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Thread: Forgiveness and Different Religions

  1. #1 Forgiveness and Different Religions 
    Forum Masters Degree Golkarian's Avatar
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    I have found that Christian pastors like to say that Christianity is the only religion, where one must ask for forgiveness rather than do good works to get to heaven (I suppose other religions have things like Nirvana). In everything else you must reach a certain standard (do so many good works for example).

    So my question, posed mainly to non-Christian theists (but possibly Bhuddists as well) is do you agree? or do you think this is a misinterpretation of your religion?


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    Buddhists view things in Karma. Forgiveness of ones negative karma is a sort of redemption that removes it, generally by doing positive things. Few non-christian religions I know of view forgiveness in any way similar to Christians, but Buddhists themselves are very patient and forgiving people. Far moreso than Christians on average, who only seek to exercise similar behavior on their yearly Christmas excuse.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Darius
    Buddhists view things in Karma. Forgiveness of ones negative karma is a sort of redemption that removes it, generally by doing positive things. Few non-christian religions I know of view forgiveness in any way similar to Christians, but Buddhists themselves are very patient and forgiving people. Far moreso than Christians on average, who only seek to exercise similar behavior on their yearly Christmas excuse.
    Yes, I was talking more about the religion than the people. Also that (according to the preachers) Christianity has forgiveness without good works.
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    Mr. Golkarian, most religions have the capacity to do good. People often refuse to do good in spite of that capacity.
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    I found a general misunderstanding of Buddhism.

    There are several different groups of Buddhism. And two groups contain most of Buddhists.
    One is Mahayana, the other is Hinayana.
    The scriptures of these two groups and their understanding is quite different.
    The Hinayanas believe in the transmigration and focus on self spiritual discipline. They believe Gotama Buddha(शाक्यमुनि) is the only god.
    While Mahayana believe anybody even anything can become god if they practice Pqramitq(Buddhism commandments). And they focus on all flesh's save.

    Darius, so you can see, when you talk about Karma you mostly mean Hinayana. These people always do the things like asking for forgiveness.
    And, 'doing positive things', Hinayanas do practice this, but Mahayanas do much more. In my opinion, only Mahayanas are whole-heartedly positive workers.
    Your avatar is a picture of Japanese Buddhist. Japanese Buddhism is one kind of Mahayana. Because of wars around 1500 in Japan and the benefit-first belief which origin in this time, Japanese Buddhism went far away from other Mahayana Buddhism.

    So it's hard to assert a religion like Buddhism ask forgiveness more than do good works or do good works more than ask forgiveness. So does the others.

    And when comes to Christianity, Nestorians in ancient China seldom talked about forgiveness. (Need to notice that they were considered as heresy long long ago)

    Whichever, forgiveness or good work, the most important thing is people do no always do as the doctrine told them for their disregard to others.
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    I am aware of the divisions in Buddhism, but in the west the two tend to blend together. Western "Buddhism" practitioners, or those that simply carry some of their beliefs, tend to subscribe to concepts like Karma, as well as the belief that any individual can become a Buddha. Westerners typically do not draw a line between them, and I find such a line to be both arbitrary and foolish. When I refer to Buddhism it is in a unifying manner that disregards foolish practices. It's also easier to understand if done in this way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darius
    I am aware of the divisions in Buddhism, but in the west the two tend to blend together. Western "Buddhism" practitioners, or those that simply carry some of their beliefs, tend to subscribe to concepts like Karma, as well as the belief that any individual can become a Buddha. Westerners typically do not draw a line between them, and I find such a line to be both arbitrary and foolish. When I refer to Buddhism it is in a unifying manner that disregards foolish practices. It's also easier to understand if done in this way.
    Yeah, draw such clear line is impossible and arbitrary.
    Some great masters of Mahayana are also great at Hinayana.
    I didn't divide Buddhism by different people, I divide it by different philosophy.
    Maybe people manner the same, but what about their starting point?
    Self save or all flesh's save?
    I heard western Buddhists focus more on spiritual practice, is this true?
    What is the difference between Buddhism and yoga then?
    I'm not sure for I have never talked with a western Buddhist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wangwy13
    Maybe people manner the same, but what about their starting point?
    Self save or all flesh's save?
    Both. If required to choose, then the latter.

    I heard western Buddhists focus more on spiritual practice, is this true?
    That is true. Meditation, most of all, is what is practiced. Certain prayers, and so on, are also common. Though, if you ask me, Zen Buddhism is probably the most common.

    What is the difference between Buddhism and yoga then?
    Sadly, Western yoga has devolved into more of a flexibility routine. Traditional yoga, by comparison, functions almost as magic. Traditional yoga is practiced with certain Buddhists, I know this much.
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darius
    Though, if you ask me, Zen Buddhism is probably the most common.
    Seems you are very familiar with Buddhism or you are one Buddhist?

    Hmm, western Zen was introduced by D.T.Suzuki, one kind of Japanese Zen which is mixed up with Jodo.

    I think one western Buddhist needs to study the traditional Chinese Zen to get better understanding of Zen.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by wangwy13
    Quote Originally Posted by Darius
    Though, if you ask me, Zen Buddhism is probably the most common.
    Seems you are very familiar with Buddhism or you are one Buddhist?
    I consider myself a modernist Buddhist of sorts, in that I believe in its self-empowerment practices; beyond that, however, I reject many of the traditions enforced that seem to do nothing but take up time. I also reject the notion that Buddha is a deity, when Gautama Buddha quite clearly preached for mans individual ability, and to my knowledge spoke nothing of such a thing.

    I've also read the earliest Buddhist works, and it is from these I follow Buddhism. I have read newer works, but the newer something is the more it appears to stray from the core concept.

    I think one western Buddhist needs to study the traditional Chinese Zen to get better understanding of Zen.
    A book entitled "A New Earth", by Ekhart Tolle, actually does a decent job of describing "Zen" for the modern world. Although he goes over the top, and gets a few things wrong, it's a very good prelude to deeper study. I hope to, one day, write my own detailed (and more accurate) book.
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  12. #11 Re: Forgiveness and Different Religions 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golkarian
    I have found that Christian pastors like to say that Christianity is the only religion, where one must ask for forgiveness rather than do good works to get to heaven (I suppose other religions have things like Nirvana). In everything else you must reach a certain standard (do so many good works for example).
    that idea of asking for forgiveness can be observed in many ways but try this one

    if you and i have choice, then you and i can make a difference. If someone harms you, you can either 'turn the other cheek' (accept the pain and not react) or allow that imposition to continue living in what YOU do.

    ie... you car is broken into, do you now lock it afterwards?

    to be harmed and then not let that imposition live in what you do, is what i call 'forgiveness'




    So my question, posed mainly to non-Christian theists (but possibly Bhuddists as well) is do you agree? or do you think this is a misinterpretation of your religion?
    the east like tha balance; don't go too high or too low, just accept the experience and learn the lesson

    it is where i find the wisdom: "learn the lesson from a car wreck'

    or simply, find what is good in all that you experience.

    the idea that 'god' or sme magic man will UNDO or forgive your sins, doesn't make sense, in that to scientifically observe reality;

    then nothing can be undone once imposed to existence. (i see that as kind of a fact of reality)
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  13. #12  
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    So far as I know, the idea that humans are inherently bad and born in need of redemption is a uniquely Christian idea.
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scifor Refugee
    So far as I know, the idea that humans are inherently bad and born in need of redemption is a uniquely Christian idea.


    now that is how how to begin equality!


    THANKS

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    that above is one of the best posts i have seen on this site
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