Notices
Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: Jesus to Father. About the Plan and my death, get serious.

  1. #1 Jesus to Father. About the Plan and my death, get serious. 
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    675
    Jesus said to the Father. About the Plan and my death, get serious.

    Some believe that the Father would tell Jesus that they would create humans with original sin. Then they would impregnate Mary with Himself as her child so that He could be born as human and Himself. He then would commit suicide as a sacrifice to Himself to save man from the sin that He had condemned and created man to do.

    This is one view.




    The real view is that we are born with sinning nature thanks to the evolutionary system that we have in place and working on an ongoing basis. We either compete/evil or cooperate/good, to evolve ourselves to a higher degree of perfection as all are created perfect.

    Deuteronomy 32:4
    He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
    The above is one view of God.

    If a God actually placed evolution here, then because of itís perfect nature, He would never have to return to fix what is working perfectly and we truly have dominion over the earth.

    Man is the supreme force here. Not a God.

    The vicarious redemption of Jesus as shown above is not only unlikely, it also places us all on a scapegoat and this is an immoral position that a God would not force upon us. That would be an immoral act. We are all responsible for our own actions and sins. God in fact rejected vicarious redemption--why have you forsaken me--because the death of an innocent man for the sins of others is not justice.


    If scripture is to be believed then man must sin to earn heaven.

    2 Peter 3:9 KJ
    The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    Repentance is to follow sin. We must sin first, so it can be said that God wants man to sin.

    Why? To repent because repenting is what forms our moral sense. Without sin, this is not possible.

    The writers of scriptures knew this and this is why they had Eve fall. As the above shows, the fall was not a fall but a fall up, so to speak, to a moral sense.

    To think that a God would hold back the knowledge of good and evil is false.
    Man is not a total human without a moral sense and this can only come with the knowledge of good and evil.

    Be it Godís will or evolutions purpose then there can be no hell as all are saved. In this we have no choice as to think otherwise would be to think that Godís will can be thwarted or that evolution is imperfect. Both of these I see as impossible.

    Is the vicarious redemption of Jesus evil?
    Does God want us to sin?


    Regards
    DL


     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    266
    the athiests on the board think your crazy, the religous think your stupid and each one that is scientifically minded are wondering how you managed to survive natural selection


     

  4. #3  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    675
    Quote Originally Posted by ishmaelblues
    the athiests on the board think your crazy, the religous think your stupid and each one that is scientifically minded are wondering how you managed to survive natural selection
    Good network of fools.

    Regards
    DL
     

  5. #4  
    Reptile Dysfunction drowsy turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,255
    Quote Originally Posted by ishmaelblues
    the athiests on the board think your crazy, the religous think your stupid and each one that is scientifically minded are wondering how you managed to survive natural selection
    I don't think he's crazy, or not too crazy. He has some good points from time to time, they're just made in unusual ways.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
     

  6. #5  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    675
    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Quote Originally Posted by ishmaelblues
    the athiests on the board think your crazy, the religous think your stupid and each one that is scientifically minded are wondering how you managed to survive natural selection
    I don't think he's crazy, or not too crazy. He has some good points from time to time, they're just made in unusual ways.
    Thanks.

    It is said that people who know more than one language have a hard time being understood. I know three so I expect to be misunderstood.

    Those who think well usually get my drift though.

    Fools and idiots do not.

    Regards
    DL
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard SkinWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Grand Prairie, TX
    Posts
    2,377
    This appears to be a theological discussion and not a scientific one or one that involves a scientific view of religion. The original poster is welcome to PM me to clarify or indicate that he is willing to show how the OP fits the guidelines and I'll be happy to re-open the thread assuming the case is made successfully.
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •