Thread: Could it be said that the bible has 2 gods

god in heaven and satan in hell

but since the bible has the bias to the god, satan is viewed as below god...

If the bible was written by satan would the situation be reversed and I would be writing a poll about the possibility of god being a god......

just wanted to get some thoughts going on the topic of satan as a god and what the reasoning would be if u claim that satan is or is not a god

please don't just say satan is or isnt a god please say why or why not in ur opinion

Well what's your deffinition for the word 'god'? If a god is something or someone being worshipped then anyone can be called a god. Yet if you follow the bible satan is an angel and not a god. So it's al in the words.

god :
1. God
a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
3. An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
4. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
5. A very handsome man.
6. A powerful ruler or despot.

thats why I put the poll as an option

because different people will have different definitions, so wanted to get an idea on how many people do think so and how many dont, based on their own definitions whatever that might be

Is this 'could anyone' or 'do you'?

If the first, then there is no debate; some can and do see satan as a god.

If the latter, then as an atheist I do not.

Originally Posted by drowsy turtle

Is this 'could anyone' or 'do you'?

If the first, then there is no debate; some can and do see satan as a god.

If the latter, then as an atheist I do not.

its really whats ur definition of a god then take that definition and see if satan fits the criteria

and u can have a definition for a god without believing they exist

Im just asking to apply it to something that it is not usually applied to(satan)

Originally Posted by Always.Asking

Im just asking to apply it to something that it is not usually applied to(satan)

Lol, satan is probably one of the most debated subjects. Yet i would say he isn't a god, for the bible, which i believe gave first life to satan as we know him, defines him as an arch angel.

EDIT: Srry, I just fixed the wrong quote tab

Originally Posted by Artemis

Lol, satan is probably one of the most debated subjects. Yet i would say he isn't a god, for the bible, which i believe gave first life to satan as we know him, defines him as an arch angel.

thats why I said that perhaps the bible is bias....and it should be looked at like that then the arch angel definition might not apply so strictly

Originally Posted by Always.Asking

god in heaven and satan in hell

Let's look at their track records. It was counted up roughly that the Abrahamic god murdered over 32 million people in the bible, whereas Satan only killed 8 people.

Hmmm...

Originally Posted by (Q)

Let's look at their track records. It was counted up roughly that the Abrahamic god murdered over 32 million people in the bible, whereas Satan only killed 8 people.

Hmmm...

good point, but if thats the criteria then does that make hitler more of a god than the Abrahamic god, since WW2 killed way more than 32 million and he got it done more efficiently in only a few years as apposed to thousands

Originally Posted by Always.Asking

good point, but if thats the criteria then does that make hitler more of a god than the Abrahamic god, since WW2 killed way more than 32 million and he got it done more efficiently in only a few years as apposed to thousands

I think it speaks more about who really is evil, God or Satan. When it comes to sheer numbers in megadeaths, God is # 1! Go team!

32 million? Q, where exactly did you pull this number out of? I am just curious, since the Roman Empire during the Pax Romana was estimated to have a population of anywhere from 60-120 million people, with the 90 million being a good middle ground.

Joseph Stalin takes the prize, with 50-60 million civilian deaths to his name
Mao Tse Tung comes in second with 40 million civilian deaths
By comparison Adolf Hitler was responsible for 11-12 million civilian deaths
It is possible that Genghis Khan may have killed more people than Stalin but there is no way to confirm this.

But anyway, do we believe this made up number of 32 million people by someone who supposedly neither believes in the existence of the god he is pinning them on, nor in the Biblical account as a possible source for making such a claim? I have every respect for people who decide for themselves what to believe but I find it more than a little bizzare when people hypocritically cherry pick what to take seriously in the Bible in order to condemn those who do believe what it says. For example, they will look at this story of the flood and utterly ignore the part of the story where it says these people killed were completely and utterly evil in order to say that the god of this story is an evil being murdering innocent people. It reminds me of the rhetoric of terrorists who call their comrades' slaughter of children a victory for justice and call the killing of their comrades by the police in order to stop them, murder.

Originally Posted by mitchellmckain

Joseph Stalin takes the prize, with 50-60 million civilian deaths to his name
Mao Tse Tung comes in second with 40 million civilian deaths
By comparison Adolf Hitler was responsible for 11-12 million civilian deaths
It is possible that Genghis Khan may have killed more people than Stalin but there is no way to confirm this.

What does that off-topic nonsense have to do with the OP? You're supposed to be the moderator here. Try to set the proper example, Mitch.

Originally Posted by KomradRed

32 million? Q, where exactly did you pull this number out of? I am just curious, since the Roman Empire during the Pax Romana was estimated to have a population of anywhere from 60-120 million people, with the 90 million being a good middle ground.

There's all kinds of websites tallying the deaths in the bible. This one shows Satans deaths to be 10, so I was off by 2.

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot....lete-list.html

Since when is injecting a little reality in a lot of made up BS off topic. The point is that the principle enemy of mankind is mankind himself. So how do you count things when you have a society that systematically murders the innocent? Well the hypocritical blame all this on God when He does nothing and then calls Him a murderer when He puts a stop to it. LOL

There are those who would blame Satan for all the murders in history, but I am not one of them. I think this habit of blaming everything but themselves is the essence of the human problem. So this ridiculous attempt make up numbers of deaths to blame on God certainly does not surprise me in the least. Imagination is an important part of what human beings are and thus I think it tells us a lot about people when we see how they use their imagination. So what does it tells us when, "the imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually"?

Originally Posted by mitchellmckain

So this ridiculous attempt make up numbers of deaths to blame on God certainly does not surprise me in the least.

Are you denying god killed millions of people in the bible? The flood wiped out everyone on Earth except a small handful of people.

We wonder if god decided to kill those quarter million people with a tsunami, adding to the death toll of this barbaric despot?

Imagination is an important part of what human beings are and thus I think it tells us a lot about people when we see how they use their imagination.

Yes, we do see people using their imaginations a lot.

Originally Posted by mitchellmckain

Mao Tse Tung comes in second with 40 million civilian deaths

Going hopelessly off-topic here, but most of those were starvation deaths from when China's agricultural industry tanked after Mao's takeover. He's arguably "responsible" for them, but it's not like he ordered them killed or something; he probably would have avoided them had he been able to do so.

Originally Posted by mitchellmckain

Since when is injecting a little reality in a lot of made up BS off topic. The point is that the principle enemy of mankind is mankind himself. So how do you count things when you have a society that systematically murders the innocent? Well the hypocritical blame all this on God when He does nothing and then calls Him a murderer when He puts a stop to it. LOL

There are those who would blame Satan for all the murders in history, but I am not one of them. I think this habit of blaming everything but themselves is the essence of the human problem. So this ridiculous attempt make up numbers of deaths to blame on God certainly does not surprise me in the least. Imagination is an important part of what human beings are and thus I think it tells us a lot about people when we see how they use their imagination. So what does it tells us when, "the imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually"?

I agree to this. This is the reason why I do not believe in any satanic force, we are perfectly capable of committing atrocities by ourselves.

Originally Posted by KomradRed

I agree to this.

How long did it take you to formulate that response?

moderator: this is over the line (Q). Lets stick to facts in evidence (written in posts) and leave pure contempt without any substantial content out of this.

Originally Posted by KomradRed

Originally Posted by mitchellmckain

There are those who would blame Satan for all the murders in history, but I am not one of them. I think this habit of blaming everything but themselves is the essence of the human problem. So this ridiculous attempt make up numbers of deaths to blame on God certainly does not surprise me in the least. Imagination is an important part of what human beings are and thus I think it tells us a lot about people when we see how they use their imagination. So what does it tells us when, "the imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually"?

I agree to this. This is the reason why I do not believe in any satanic force, we are perfectly capable of committing atrocities by ourselves.

Well I believe that Satan exists, I just don't think he is really responsible for evil in the world. I think he is more of a scapegoat - remember the Jewish practice? So why would God create a scapegoat out of Lucifer or even use this ritual scapegoat in early Judaism, if this blaiming everything but themselves is the essence of the human problem? I think we can see some of the same kind of thing in successful strategies in psychiatry - playing along with a delusion in order to reach the patient and use elements of the delusion to lead the patient back to reality.

Just replying to the OP here.

Biblically speaking, Satan is actually considered to be a Fallen Angel. He was once one of God's angels, before God banished him.

Then again, I'm not a Christian. However, this is what I've always heard.

How all this speculation, sniping and rhetoric is addressing the original query, I fail to see.

For the reality of such issues, we have to commence at the beginning, which in this case happens to be the world in which lived a man widely known these days as Moses, whom it is believed penned much of the genesis of what has eventually become the collective Hebrew scriptural text, and more recently - the Bible.

Disregarding the fact that the original words have been re-interpreted and re-organised a great many times over the intervening period, which in itself certainly places a heavy doubt over the authenticity of each particular word/phrase, the reality is that Moses and everyone who followed him, came out of an existence under a tyrannical Egyptian bondage to a profoundly religious system with it's oppressive authoritarian taskmasters - the religious priesthood of (the head god) Amen - who amazingly continues to be quite prominent today.

Amen was proposed as the creator of everything, yet he was NOT the only (mono) god. Significantly, he had a powerful immortal enemy by the name Apopohis, who resided over the underworld (remembering the world was at that time flat). Apopohis was a snake god who fought with Amen every night for possession of the sun, yet Amen was not alone in this fight, for he enlisted the assistance of two lesser gods - one amazingly enough - his son.

This, being the fundamentals of the mythical system of worship which all who exited ancient Egypt behind Moses served, largely became incorporated into their continuing religious indoctrination through the ensuing centuries, for they failed (AND STILL DO) to recognise it was NOT the physical hardship (slavery) from which they were being called out, but indeed the SPIRITUAL variety of slavery - under religion.

In any case, after being handed down over the intervening 3000 years, Amen via various identifications, eventually became known (around 400 years ago), as 'God', which strangely enough, even a Christian would have to admit is not a name at all - for he clearly remains AMEN - even today being the very name being invoked at the end of every Christian prayer. Apopohis, the snake enemy god on the other hand, eventually became known as Hasatan (Judaism), then handed further down as 'Satan'.

Therefore, by virtue of the very definition of the religious observance under which 'he' first gained significance, the (still mythical) 'devil' (or 'Satan') is most certainly a 'god' - being a fundamental part of the exact same theological taskmaster system (with a few name and detail changes) that dominated the world 3500 years ago and continues throughout the world today - particularly (but not solely) via Christianity.

So:
Amen - now 'God'
Amen's son - now 'Jesus'
Apopohis - now 'Satan'
The underworld - now 'Hell'
The trinity under Amen - now the trinity under 'Amen'.

For what it's worth; obviously I am unable to cast any vote for this thread.