Notices
Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: There will be no end time. Here is scripture to prove it.

  1. #1 There will be no end time. Here is scripture to prove it. 
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    675
    There will be no end time. Here is scripture to prove it.


    I do not ever expect God to return at some end time because I see His judgment at the beginning of our birth in Genesis as the only judgment that he need render. God does not reverse His judgments.

    Genesis 1:31
    And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day

    He said In Genesis it was very good. I upgrade it to perfect with this.

    Deuteronomy 32:4
    He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

    To have Him return, red faced, to fix a perfect world is beyond my understanding and definition of God. He gets things right the first time, every time. Never does He fail in creating perfection.

    I believe that when we, through Adam and Eve, left the garden, we did so with God being proud of His perfect works and not ashamed that He had started us off on the wrong foot, so to speak, for the beginning of our journey.

    I know that most see our beginnings as a fall but I would suggest it was a fall up, not down. Without the knowledge of good and evil we would not have a moral sense and this I think should be unacceptable to any rational mind.

    Many think that just because evil is here that that is somehow a flaw in Godís system. I disagree.

    Isaiah 45:7
    I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

    Like all things that God created, evil is perfect for the purposes that He created it for.

    All are born sinners as God wants and to repent then we must all sin or do evil of some kind.

    2 Peter 3:9
    The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    If all must come to repentance to not perish then all MUST sin.

    Godís plan then is to never have to return to fix His PERFECT systems.
    Thus there is no end time.

    Who here will challenge the perfection of our God given and perfect systems?

    Please us scripture to show where perfection can produce imperfection and where God admits to failing to create us as He desired and that all things are not progressing as He desires.

    Thank God His will cannot be thwarted.

    Regards
    DL


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2 Re: There will be no end time. Here is scripture to prove it 
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,169
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Please use scripture to show where perfection can produce imperfection and where God admits to failing to create us as He desired and that all things are not progressing as He desires.
    Genesis Chapter 6, verses 11-13.

    The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

    And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

    And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.


    Case closed.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
    Posts
    3,112
    Yes, eschatology is one area of Christian theology where I continue to draw a complete blank, meaning that I have yet to see any value in this.


    Well except for...


    I do enjoy B grade apocalyptic horror flics on occasion. The premise of the "Left Behind" series is as good as any of them.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Reptile Dysfunction drowsy turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,256
    Stephen King's 'The Fog' is a good one.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Professor marcusclayman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,704
    What is the scientific value of this thread? Or now that Archie's gone is the name and rules going to get changed back?
    Dick, be Frank.

    Ambiguity Kills.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,169
    Quote Originally Posted by marcusclayman
    What is the scientific value of this thread?
    Zero. Especially since its thesis has been disproven through the use of scripture.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
    Posts
    3,112
    Quote Originally Posted by marcusclayman
    What is the scientific value of this thread?
    Here we have a scientific study of religion, so all threads which contribute thought and data concerning the phenomenon of religion does have value in that context. In any case, judging what value that the discussions here may have for the more accepted areas of science is not the criterion we are using. The criterion we are using is posted at the top of this section of the forum.

    Greatest I am is a crusader, it is true. But he does respond within the bounds of courtesy and thoughtfulness that is acceptable and respected on this forum.


    Quote Originally Posted by marcusclayman
    Or now that Archie's gone is the name and rules going to get changed back?
    No.

    The rules have changed, but not perhaps has as much as first impressions might suggest.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Professor marcusclayman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,704
    Hmmm, I see. Maybe a little more than I want to.

    A little hypocrisy can be useful I guess. In which case.

    "There will be no end time. Here is scripture to prove it. "

    The excerpts from scripture you offer do not prove anything, they simply state things that are open to interpretation, more so if your willing to take them out of context as you have so elegantly shown us.

    "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day "

    And God's Judgment is also Good.

    "He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. "

    And His Judgment is also Perfect, Truthful, Just, Right and Without Iniquity.

    "...beyond my understanding and definition of God... "

    Needless to say, God has a much better understanding, and a much more precise definition, of you, than you do of Him.

    "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. "

    And who are we to say what he can and cannot do? What his promises mean and do not mean? What can be corrupted and what can be purified?


    "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. "

    I'm going to delve into this one because it bears remembering.

    Slack: http://sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/g1019.htm
    Count: http://sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/g2233.htm
    To Will: http://sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/g1014.htm
    To Determine: http://sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/g2309.htm
    Long-suffering: http://sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/g3114.htm
    Come: http://sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/g5562.htm
    Repentance: http://sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/g3341.htm

    meaningless observation: Promise-birth, long suffering- life, perish- death, repentance- heaven

    So he doesn't "will us to die" He "wills us to repent"

    anything that seems contrary to this is a means to an end... for example, us dying is contrary to some interpretations of His word, but it is clear His word is not wrong, it is our interpretation that is wrong. We die, despite Him, who decides all things, saying that he doesn't 'will" us to die... hmmm, maybe it's a means to an end? one step towards repentance.

    Why did Peter feel it necessary to point out that the lord is not slack, according to Man's definition of the word slack? almost as though there is a different meaning. Then says he is long-suffering instead of being slack(slack according to man's definition of course)? Maybe because there is a divine definition of "slack" that is like man's definition but not the same... see, when one who is ignorant is slack, it is because of laziness or they have nothing to do... when one who is wise is slack, it is because they are waiting until the right time to act or more precisely it is the right time to be slack. When God is slack, it is clearly an expression of His patience: long-suffering. He will act when the time is right, at the end of days. He doesn't will us to perish, He wills us to repent, the perishing part is just a means to an end.

    Saturday, the Sabbath, is the day of Sutr, the Apocalyptic fire giant from Norse Myth. Sunday, the Son's day? is a day of birth, life and light. It comes after the symbolic last day. It seems the chapter after Revelations was "Forgottens"
    Dick, be Frank.

    Ambiguity Kills.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beautiful Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    2,095
    Marcus observed:

    So he doesn't "will us to die" He "wills us to repent"
    I like that observation. Not only does he not "will us to die," he provides a means to everlasting life and the major step in that direction is repentance for having disagreed with God.

    As to the discussion on "slack" and "longsuffering" seeming to be similar concepts use to mean opposite things: I think if you said someone was a "slackard," you would not mean the same thing as if you said he was "patient." Even so, the action of the slackard and the patient person might be exactly the same.
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

    If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10 Re: There will be no end time. Here is scripture to prove it 
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    675
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Please use scripture to show where perfection can produce imperfection and where God admits to failing to create us as He desired and that all things are not progressing as He desires.
    Genesis Chapter 6, verses 11-13.

    The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

    And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

    And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.


    Case closed.
    For you perhaps.

    All flesh.
    How can children and babies be corrupt when God is the creator of our souls and natures? They did not have time to do evil and were innocent.
    Violent babies? Look out here comes one now. LOL.

    How many tries does your God get before getting things right? Is He not the creator of perfect works?

    Regards
    DL
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Reptile Dysfunction drowsy turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,256
    Indeed, the bible is full of hypocrisy and contradiction.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    675
    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    Yes, eschatology is one area of Christian theology where I continue to draw a complete blank, meaning that I have yet to see any value in this.


    Well except for...


    I do enjoy B grade apocalyptic horror flics on occasion. The premise of the "Left Behind" series is as good as any of them.
    Yes, To think that the last judgment would be the opposite of the first judgment is just too stupid for me to consider. That would mean that God swing this way and then that way and just does not know what He likes this time or the next time around.

    Regards
    DL
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    675
    Quote Originally Posted by marcusclayman
    What is the scientific value of this thread? Or now that Archie's gone is the name and rules going to get changed back?
    The scientific value is that it disproves logically the existence of the seven headed monster of Revelation.
    It also proves logically that God is not a fuck up.

    Regards
    DL
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    675
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    Quote Originally Posted by marcusclayman
    What is the scientific value of this thread?
    Zero. Especially since its thesis has been disproven through the use of scripture.
    Scripture disproving other scripture does not win arguments.
    It just pits the Bible against itself.

    Regards
    DL
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    2,697
    All flesh.
    How can children and babies be corrupt when God is the creator of our souls and natures? They did not have time to do evil and were innocent.
    Violent babies? Look out here comes one now. LOL.

    How many tries does your God get before getting things right? Is He not the creator of perfect works?
    Perhaps the guy that was writing this stuff down was really drunk at the time
    I'll listen to the "word" of God when I know the words we read were not written by man. If the Bible was materialized before us thousands of years ago it would have more weight with me then having been hand written and further translated and re-interpreted. Even now I would not be convinced that if the book simply appeared that it wasn't just the work of a higher intelligence. Still it would hold far more water with me personally.
    Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    675
    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    Quote Originally Posted by marcusclayman
    What is the scientific value of this thread?
    Here we have a scientific study of religion, so all threads which contribute thought and data concerning the phenomenon of religion does have value in that context. In any case, judging what value that the discussions here may have for the more accepted areas of science is not the criterion we are using. The criterion we are using is posted at the top of this section of the forum.

    Greatest I am is a crusader, it is true. But he does respond within the bounds of courtesy and thoughtfulness that is acceptable and respected on this forum.

    .
    Oh no, I must be losing my touch. LOL.

    Thanks for your kind words.

    Regards
    DL
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    675
    marcusclayman

    If there were to be an end time then that is where God is supposed to judge all that have lived.

    If His will is that all repent and His will is supreme then all will repent on that day. No choice.

    God's will cannot be thwarted.

    Jesus said that the time of the end was at hand.

    How can it be at hand then and again at some future time?
    Was Jesus, gulp, wrong?

    Regards
    DL
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    675
    Quote Originally Posted by (In)Sanity
    All flesh.
    How can children and babies be corrupt when God is the creator of our souls and natures? They did not have time to do evil and were innocent.
    Violent babies? Look out here comes one now. LOL.

    How many tries does your God get before getting things right? Is He not the creator of perfect works?
    Perhaps the guy that was writing this stuff down was really drunk at the time
    I'll listen to the "word" of God when I know the words we read were not written by man. If the Bible was materialized before us thousands of years ago it would have more weight with me then having been hand written and further translated and re-interpreted. Even now I would not be convinced that if the book simply appeared that it wasn't just the work of a higher intelligence. Still it would hold far more water with me personally.
    Agreed.

    To think that Constantine paid God to sit and write is funny.

    Regards
    DL
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19  
    Forum Professor marcusclayman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,704
    "How can children and babies be corrupt when God is the creator of our souls and natures?"

    To the best of my knowledge God created Adam, Eve from Adam, and everyone else was created through intercourse

    "How many tries does your God get before getting things right? Is He not the creator of perfect works?"

    Why not ask Him?

    'Indeed, the bible is full of hypocrisy and contradiction."

    Could it just be Man's interpretation of the Bible that is hipocritical? You can compare two conflicting statements, by removing them from their context. A better example is this here, where something is in conflict with what we understand as life, IE, God not willing us to die? Yet we die?

    The word "perish" can be used as "be destroyed" as well as to "die." It might be a symbol of everlasting life, and that death of the body is not the same as destruction of one's soul.

    I don't know if that's what it means, but I'm just pointing out how it is widely open to interpretation. Even if you don't believe in the mythology, consider it a work of poetry, where the meaning isn't as important as what it inspires within you.

    If all it inspires is doubt, or blind faith, this is a reflection of You, not the Book. Even if it inspires enlightenment, virtue, regeneration, immortality, etc, these are reflections of You, not the Book. The Book, as all things, are mirrors, some are just more reflective than others. Some people don't recognize what they see.

    "that the last judgment would be the opposite of the first judgment is just too stupid for me to consider."

    Just as God is not slack, in Man's way of counting, God is neither stupid, in Man's way of counting, although things He does may seem so, it is only from our own perspective. You see it as self defeating, when it is probably a symbol of self fulfilling. The end isn't an end of all good things, it is an end of all bad things, things that lack a name in the book of life. It may indeed be that all things are good and have their names in the book of life, and that nothing at all will change. This would not make the prophecy wrong, it would make our interpretation of it wrong.

    "That would mean that God swing this way and then that way and just does not know what He likes this time or the next time around. "

    Well God did create "this way" and "that way" "liking" and "disliking" what you describe sounds a lot like a spontanious force of pure creativity.

    "The scientific value is that it disproves logically the existence of the seven headed monster of Revelation."
    But if you believe in the Bible, then everything must be real, or at least a symbolic reference to something real.

    "It also proves logically that God is not a fuck up."
    Who are you to say what God is and is not? Aren't fuck ups, created by God, according to your logic, perfect in all their ways?

    "Scripture disproving other scripture does not win arguments."

    Isn't this what you tried to do in the original post? IMO, whoever learns the most wins the argument.

    "It just pits the Bible against itself. "

    No, it pits Man against Man, and Man against the Bible.


    "Jesus said that the time of the end was at hand.

    How can it be at hand then and again at some future time?
    Was Jesus, gulp, wrong?"

    Please cite the scripture as I am not a bible scholar and am too bussy to go looking. Although I've heard the scripture before I would like to be able to locate it myself, in context, before commenting on this.
    Dick, be Frank.

    Ambiguity Kills.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    675
    "How can children and babies be corrupt when God is the creator of our souls and natures?"

    Regards
    DL
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •