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Thread: Athiest vs Religious vs Unknowledged

  1. #1 Athiest vs Religious vs Unknowledged 
    Forum Junior DivideByZero's Avatar
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    I have seen many religious people dislike atheists.

    But do religious people also dislike people who have no knowledge of god.

    Lets say you (a religious person) meet a 20 year old man who simply works, studies, plays and has never heard or thought of the idea of god.

    Do you

    (a) teach him about god to convert him
    (b) inform him but only tell him about one type of religion
    (c) inform him about all types of religions and atheism
    (d) do nothing because it doesn't matter to you
    (e) do nothing because you know inside that there is no point in telling him


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  3. #2  
    sox
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    B.

    I would tell him about my own religion. Or rather the religion that I am most interested in - Christianity. But I would as him to question MY beliefs. I think it's good practice to constantly re-assess your beliefs and having a "fresh" mind view them is only going to help you both develop your understanding.



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  4. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sox
    B.

    I would tell him about my own religion. Or rather the religion that I am most interested in - Christianity. But I would as him to question MY beliefs. I think it's good practice to constantly re-assess your beliefs and having a "fresh" mind view them is only going to help you both develop your understanding.
    so you wouldn't put it out there that other beliefs may exists?

    After introducing Christianity, you wouldn't also mention Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Taoism, etc?
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    Im positive if some reasonable 20 year old knew nothing of religion and was told that some guy literally rose from the dead like a zombie to save us from our sinful nature and we must cannibilize his body and drink his blood to telepathically talk to him, he would think you were crazy.
    "Democracy is a problem because it treats everyone as equals." - Betty Fischer

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    C If he knows one thing, he should know all the options before deciding.
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    Im positive if some reasonable 20 year old knew nothing of religion and was told that some guy literally rose from the dead like a zombie to save us from our sinful nature and we must cannibilize his body and drink his blood to telepathically talk to him, he would think you were crazy.

    C'mon I'm speaking totally hypothetically.

    If you want it to be more possible then how about a ten year old kid?

    Believe it or not, there are people who haven't heard of religion until 10. Even if they have heard it they haven't paid much attention to it and completely ignored it because they didn't understand. Kind of like how a kid may see trees grow but not care how exactly it grows. Even though there a millions of documents of scientific research on growth of plants, the kid may not have even wondered about such a thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tritai
    C If he knows one thing, he should know all the options before deciding.
    Do you think deciding is necessary?

    Can't he know and forget?

    What would you personally think if he doesn't care about religion and continues to work or play. Remember, I'm not saying he is atheist, nor is he agnostic. He simply doesn't care if god exists.
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    Im positive if some reasonable 20 year old knew nothing of religion and was told that some guy literally rose from the dead like a zombie to save us from our sinful nature and we must cannibilize his body and drink his blood to telepathically talk to him, he would think you were crazy.
    withthis lobsided description anyone would think you were crazy. zombie? cannabalize? telepathics? your adjectyives need work or removal as you are not painting the true picture.

    [quote](a) teach him about god to convert him

    with christianity you tell him the good news (gospel), doesn't matterif he has heard about religion or not, he is a sinner not a believer and needs tohear the words of salvation so he has a chance to convert. the decision is up to him. if he has questions first then you answer them.
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    Do you think deciding is necessary?

    Can't he know and forget?

    What would you personally think if he doesn't care about religion and continues to work or play. Remember, I'm not saying he is atheist, nor is he agnostic. He simply doesn't care if god exists.
    Actualy, that's a good point, DivideByZero. It ISN'T necessary to decide, so scratch my previous comment. I would rather he heard about it, and then forget just so he can go back to his daily life without having to worry about some supernatural power playing into his world and meddling with his affairs. I've always thought religious people were kind of hindered by just the idea of religion mainly because they can never really feel in charge of themselves. I honestly think that there may be a God, and there may not be a God...either way, we're on our own. But instead, I call myself an atheist. Because that's just final enough for me. So for the 20 year old, I would say: let it go through one ear and out the other. No point in wasting brainpower over something so fickle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tritai
    Do you think deciding is necessary?

    Can't he know and forget?

    What would you personally think if he doesn't care about religion and continues to work or play. Remember, I'm not saying he is atheist, nor is he agnostic. He simply doesn't care if god exists.
    Actualy, that's a good point, DivideByZero. It ISN'T necessary to decide, so scratch my previous comment. I would rather he heard about it, and then forget just so he can go back to his daily life without having to worry about some supernatural power playing into his world and meddling with his affairs. I've always thought religious people were kind of hindered by just the idea of religion mainly because they can never really feel in charge of themselves. I honestly think that there may be a God, and there may not be a God...either way, we're on our own. But instead, I call myself an atheist. Because that's just final enough for me. So for the 20 year old, I would say: let it go through one ear and out the other. No point in wasting brainpower over something so fickle.

    "Indifference" should definitely be a word for those non-religious and non-atheist people.

    So now we have 4 categories:

    Atheists

    Agnostics

    Indifferentics

    Religious
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    Ok, then well, I guess I'm an indifferentic, eh? Ah, that glorious fragrance of apathy....beautiful!
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    It truly is.
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  14. #13 Re: Athiest vs Religious vs Unknowledged 
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivideByZero
    Lets say you (a religious person) meet a 20 year old man who simply works, studies, plays and has never heard or thought of the idea of god.

    Do you

    (a) teach him about god to convert him
    (b) inform him but only tell him about one type of religion
    (c) inform him about all types of religions and atheism
    (d) do nothing because it doesn't matter to you
    (e) do nothing because you know inside that there is no point in telling him
    Does this question even make any sense? If I was not already talking to him about God then how could I possibly know that he has never thought of or heard of God? I noticed this contradiction in the process of trying to answer it, because for me, what I would do depends entirely on him. What I would say, would have to come from listening to him and what he has to say about what is important to him. Reflecting on this again as I seek to explain my thoughts actually enables me to imagine how such a situation might arise after all and that would have to be in the context of hearing about his philosophical outlook on life. In that case, I would most likely respond by sharing that portion of my own philosophical outlook on life that which compares with his in its similarities and differences. If he is interested in my point of view and asks questions that it is inevitable that if I had not already discussed God then the topic would come around to that.
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  15. #14 Re: Athiest vs Religious vs Unknowledged 
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    Quote Originally Posted by DivideByZero
    Lets say you (a religious person) meet a 20 year old man who simply works, studies, plays and has never heard or thought of the idea of god.

    Do you

    (a) teach him about god to convert him
    (b) inform him but only tell him about one type of religion
    (c) inform him about all types of religions and atheism
    (d) do nothing because it doesn't matter to you
    (e) do nothing because you know inside that there is no point in telling him
    Does this question even make any sense? If I was not already talking to him about God then how could I possibly know that he has never thought of or heard of God?

    lets say you heard it from a trustful source (his mother, his best friend, whatever)
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  16. #15 Re: Athiest vs Religious vs Unknowledged 
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivideByZero
    I have seen many religious people dislike atheists.

    But do religious people also dislike people who have no knowledge of god.

    Lets say you (a religious person) meet a 20 year old man who simply works, studies, plays and has never heard or thought of the idea of god.

    Do you

    (a) teach him about god to convert him
    (b) inform him but only tell him about one type of religion
    (c) inform him about all types of religions and atheism
    (d) do nothing because it doesn't matter to you
    (e) do nothing because you know inside that there is no point in telling him
    None of those. I'd leave them. I would not tell him anything irrelevant to the extenet I would not tell him any other beleifs I know of. Why would I tell him anything religious? I may as well tell him about faeries.

    Religion is bullshit. Even the new testament. The only praise I give it is how wise and intelligent Jesus was.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivideByZero
    Quote Originally Posted by tritai
    Do you think deciding is necessary?

    Can't he know and forget?

    What would you personally think if he doesn't care about religion and continues to work or play. Remember, I'm not saying he is atheist, nor is he agnostic. He simply doesn't care if god exists.
    Actualy, that's a good point, DivideByZero. It ISN'T necessary to decide, so scratch my previous comment. I would rather he heard about it, and then forget just so he can go back to his daily life without having to worry about some supernatural power playing into his world and meddling with his affairs. I've always thought religious people were kind of hindered by just the idea of religion mainly because they can never really feel in charge of themselves. I honestly think that there may be a God, and there may not be a God...either way, we're on our own. But instead, I call myself an atheist. Because that's just final enough for me. So for the 20 year old, I would say: let it go through one ear and out the other. No point in wasting brainpower over something so fickle.

    "Indifference" should definitely be a word for those non-religious and non-atheist people.

    So now we have 4 categories:

    Atheists

    Agnostics

    Indifferentics

    Religious
    paint me indifferent too.
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    if I was a religious person which I am not, I would not take it as an opportunity to share my faith with him I would explain the views from a third person perspective

    starting with there are people out there who believe.....etc etc

    then go on to see what he thinks about it and use it as an opportunity to have my faith questioned from a 100% completely unbiased perspective...

    then its me who takes on the onus to create the debate rather than make it seem like I am forcing any one particular view
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    Oprah go into somewhat of an argument with a guest over this very topic.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwGLNbiw1gk
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  20. #19 Re: Athiest vs Religious vs Unknowledged 
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivideByZero
    I have seen many religious people dislike atheists.

    But do religious people also dislike people who have no knowledge of god.

    Lets say you (a religious person) meet a 20 year old man who simply works, studies, plays and has never heard or thought of the idea of god.

    Do you

    (a) teach him about god to convert him
    (b) inform him but only tell him about one type of religion
    (c) inform him about all types of religions and atheism
    (d) do nothing because it doesn't matter to you
    (e) do nothing because you know inside that there is no point in telling him
    I would do nothing unless he asked me about it. Then I would tell him about my religion (if I had one) and after that I would tell him that there are many more religions.
    Then again, IF I was religious I might want to try to convert him. But I really do not have that kind of mindset going on.
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    I'd leave him to it. I have no religion, and so nothing to teach.

    They are unlikely to accept a religion anyway; most of us who are religious got used to this way of living from a young age, and so often do not think to question the beliefs. One who has grown up without even knowing of religion would most likely see no reason to believe it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    I'd leave him to it. I have no religion, and so nothing to teach.

    They are unlikely to accept a religion anyway; most of us who are religious got used to this way of living from a young age, and so often do not think to question the beliefs. One who has grown up without even knowing of religion would most likely see no reason to believe it.
    I have to agree with this completely, but I think it is out of context of the question

    the OP is I think asking what if u were religious and u then came under the situation
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    the problem with the non-believer of Jesus is that they do not realize that their minds are clouded and cannot grasp the meaning of scripture nor the acts of God. the construct their rules purposefully to omit that which would shed light on their existence and hide themselves in a false idea because they want to be kings of their world.
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    the problem with the non-believer of Jesus is that they do not realize that their minds are clouded and cannot grasp the meaning of scripture nor the acts of God. the construct their rules purposefully to omit that which would shed light on their existence and hide themselves in a false idea because they want to be kings of their world.
    Such a narrow minded response. One can have strong beliefs in God without believing that the words written by man are the words of God.

    Let's look at it this way, if we were to discover buried in the sands somewhere right now an entire ancient set of writings which fully detail the creation of the heavens and earth and how mankind came in to existence and detailed every event that has happen to this date in great detail , would we take these new found writings as the word of God or would you simply dismiss them and not known for sure if the writing you follow are the true writings or if these ancient newly discovered writings were in fact the real truth. Would you simply say some man fabricated these stories long long ago and buried them in the sand?
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by (In)Sanity

    Such a narrow minded response. One can have strong beliefs in God without believing that the words written by man are the words of God.
    Under that explicit set of criterion, one's concept of a god would have to be their very own created from their mind, void of all that was ever written about gods.

    What beliefs would one have of a god if they never heard or read of gods before?
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    the problem with the non-believer of Jesus is that they do not realize that their minds are clouded and cannot grasp the meaning of scripture nor the acts of God. the construct their rules purposefully to omit that which would shed light on their existence and hide themselves in a false idea because they want to be kings of their world.
    i like the part where it says the rainbow is proof that god will never flood the world again. i mean, something so perfect as a rainbow just has to be created? doesn't it?

    at least your creationist ancestors seemed to think so.
    but we know better nowadays.
    but i'm sure, back in the day, you'd be advocating the rainbow being gods creation, and not some simplistic natural phenomenon, and burning whoever disagrees with you on the stake.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    the problem with the non-believer of Jesus is that they do not realize that their minds are clouded and cannot grasp the meaning of scripture nor the acts of God. the construct their rules purposefully to omit that which would shed light on their existence and hide themselves in a false idea because they want to be kings of their world.
    i like the part where it says the rainbow is proof that god will never flood the world again. i mean, something so perfect as a rainbow just has to be created? doesn't it?

    at least your creationist ancestors seemed to think so.
    but we know better nowadays.
    but i'm sure, back in the day, you'd be advocating the rainbow being gods creation, and not some simplistic natural phenomenon, and burning whoever disagrees with you on the stake.
    Good one. :wink:
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    Quote Originally Posted by (In)Sanity
    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    the problem with the non-believer of Jesus is that they do not realize that their minds are clouded and cannot grasp the meaning of scripture nor the acts of God. the construct their rules purposefully to omit that which would shed light on their existence and hide themselves in a false idea because they want to be kings of their world.
    Such a narrow minded response. One can have strong beliefs in God without believing that the words written by man are the words of God.
    I would add that one can also believe that some writing is the word of God without thinking this automatically means that someone's understanding or use of those words cannot be disputed. I believe it is the latter which is the real anathema here. What just doesn't wash is this style of argument that, "the word of God says this and therefore you cannot criticize it, cannot argue with it and cannot dispute it." Frankly this style of argument works no better among the relgious than it does in a more secular arena where it is just nonsense.

    Suppose I go around quoting Obama and saying that because he says it therefore you have to agree with it? LOL There is not even any dispute about whether Obama exists or that he deserves a great deal of respect or that he has considerable power to back up his words, right? So the question is how does that sort of argument work any better when you claim that God is the author? In the case of Obama the press can at least question him concerning what he meant by a particular thing he may have said, which is not something we can say about anything God has supposedly written.

    My point is that the validity of this kind of argumentation is not settled by the question of the authorship of the Bible alone. Even among people who all agree that the Bible is the word of God, there are still disagreements about what those words mean. And from my observations of the writings of really good authors and hearing the authors talk about their writings, it has become rather obvious that the authors quite often don't mean one single thing by their words but intentionally leave their words open to interpretation. I have even heard fans talking to these authors insisting to the author himself what the author must have meant. To me that was a classic example of how people read their own meaning into words and sometimes in a rather narrowminded and obsessive manner highly reminiscent of the behavior of fundamentalist Christians.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    the problem with the non-believer of Jesus is that they do not realize that their minds are clouded and cannot grasp the meaning of scripture nor the acts of God. the construct their rules purposefully to omit that which would shed light on their existence and hide themselves in a false idea because they want to be kings of their world.
    I strongly disagree with this. We that don't believe are very clear of mind. It is that we have very simple questions that religious zealots profess to be able to answer. We are given outlandish answers then asked to join,then we will learn all.

    I believe in science and I can read and comprehend and I refuse to believe that Adam and Eve were the first two humans God created. Here is one good reason right here.

    http://www.gnosis.org/lilith.htm

    Now when I ask religious folk about this and tell them that it is mentioned elsewhere like the Tora and the Talmud;I get told that "there is only the Bible". This lets me know they have no idea how the bible came to be.

    IMO most things only takes common sense,like the flood and if you know the three age system it would shed some light on Tublecain.
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