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View Poll Results: Am I logical in regards to religious discussion?

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  • Yes, I am very logical

    3 60.00%
  • No, I'm loopy

    2 40.00%
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Thread: My Logic

  1. #1 My Logic 
    Forum Ph.D. verzen's Avatar
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    I have shown considerable logic on the religion forum. Many theists seem to think my logic regarding their belief is faulty and that it is a logical fallacy even though they have yet to name the logical fallacy that I am following under. Even though I am aware that appeal to popularity and appeal to belief applies to polls, I am generally curious what the population of this forum thinks of my logic in regards to the discussion with theists in trying to improve on their sense of logic. I am even mentioning what fallacy they are falling under with their belief system.
    Espo btw told me I was not logical when he was seriously telling me it's logical to believe in something out of fear.
    Please answer with what you think of my logical discussions with theists.


    "Democracy is a problem because it treats everyone as equals." - Betty Fischer

    "back in the 50's or 60's Nicky Criuz was a gang leader who met David Wilkerson in New York City. After much discussion over months or years, i forget how long, Wilkerson's wife became pregnant. one day Cruz decides to test God, he basically prayed--God if you are real let the baby be born a boy-- it was a boy. "
    - Logic of a creationist

    Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur
    ""What can be asserted without reason, can be dismissed without reason. ""
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  3. #2 Re: My Logic 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    I have shown considerable logic on the religion forum.
    ...
    Please answer with what you think of my logical discussions with theists.
    No vote. The choices are too black and white. How about a third choice:

    "You aspire to logic. But you have considerable room for improvement."

    You have used the word logic a lot and mentioned a lot of logical fallacies but your use of them have not been very accurate. But it is commendable that you try and I suspect that we all have room for improvement. I would certainly say that it is better to aspire to logic than to spurn it.


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  4. #3 Re: My Logic 
    Forum Ph.D. verzen's Avatar
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    your use of them have not been very accurate.
    What is the evidence for your claim?
    "Democracy is a problem because it treats everyone as equals." - Betty Fischer

    "back in the 50's or 60's Nicky Criuz was a gang leader who met David Wilkerson in New York City. After much discussion over months or years, i forget how long, Wilkerson's wife became pregnant. one day Cruz decides to test God, he basically prayed--God if you are real let the baby be born a boy-- it was a boy. "
    - Logic of a creationist

    Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur
    ""What can be asserted without reason, can be dismissed without reason. ""
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  5. #4  
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    You bring up logical fallacies quite a bit sir, but you haven't brought forth a list or even a few examples of what you consider a logical fallacy to be (at least in this thread). While you could say that people should learn what kinds of logical fallacies there are for themselves, if you really wish to present persuasive and logical arguments you should present clear and concise logical fallacies that so that people may know the boundaries of whatever argument you are trying to make and reply accordingly.

    I would agree with Mr. Mckain about a third choice, so no vote sir.
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  6. #5  
    Forum Ph.D. verzen's Avatar
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    I didn't make up the term, "Logical Fallacies" nor did I create the list.
    One search on google will bring up a list of logical fallacies. In fact, here is a list of the "major ones." This list does not contain all logical fallacies.

    http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

    An example of a logical fallacy that is not included is, "Not a True Scotsman"
    But that is the list of the most commonly used arguments which are logical fallacies. In order to debate logically and precisely, you should learn what this list is and how to avoid the use of these arguments.
    "Democracy is a problem because it treats everyone as equals." - Betty Fischer

    "back in the 50's or 60's Nicky Criuz was a gang leader who met David Wilkerson in New York City. After much discussion over months or years, i forget how long, Wilkerson's wife became pregnant. one day Cruz decides to test God, he basically prayed--God if you are real let the baby be born a boy-- it was a boy. "
    - Logic of a creationist

    Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur
    ""What can be asserted without reason, can be dismissed without reason. ""
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  7. #6  
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    I did not say that you made up the term logical fallacy sir, I merely said that you have not brought up a list of what you consider to be logical fallacies. Now that you have I rescind my first paragraph.

    Also, just curious, did you vote for yourself?
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  8. #7  
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    I'm biased =)
    In the end count however, I know that I voted for myself and it is more of a personal measure then an official one.
    "Democracy is a problem because it treats everyone as equals." - Betty Fischer

    "back in the 50's or 60's Nicky Criuz was a gang leader who met David Wilkerson in New York City. After much discussion over months or years, i forget how long, Wilkerson's wife became pregnant. one day Cruz decides to test God, he basically prayed--God if you are real let the baby be born a boy-- it was a boy. "
    - Logic of a creationist

    Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur
    ""What can be asserted without reason, can be dismissed without reason. ""
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  9. #8  
    Reptile Dysfunction drowsy turtle's Avatar
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    You come to conclusions in a logical way. This is not necessarily to say that they are correct, though.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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  10. #9 Re: My Logic 
    sox
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    I have shown considerable logic on the religion forum.
    ...
    Please answer with what you think of my logical discussions with theists.
    No vote. The choices are too black and white. How about a third choice:

    "You aspire to logic. But you have considerable room for improvement."

    You have used the word logic a lot and mentioned a lot of logical fallacies but your use of them have not been very accurate. But it is commendable that you try and I suspect that we all have room for improvement. I would certainly say that it is better to aspire to logic than to spurn it.
    ah mitchel that amde me laugh! it's funny cos it's true!

    verzen that really was an arrogant opening post... "i have shown considerable logic" jings...

    might I point out that little conversation we had about the birth of jesus? can u remmeber the reasoning you came up with? hehe that was fun!

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  11. #10  
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    Ooohh dear

    Does anyone like me? lol
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  12. #11  
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    eh? you've not been mentioned in the thread! lol

    presumably kalster does

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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sox
    eh? you've not been mentioned in the thread! lol

    presumably kalster does
    eh?

    Haven't I?

    Does that mean nobody likes me?

    Do you like me sox?

    Kalster doesn't have any choice but to say he likes me.

    I presently have him locked in the basement and I told him I aint gonna let him out til he says he likes me.
    Absum! has never been bored in her life, but is becoming increasingly bored of the Science Forum! :?


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  14. #13  
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    you've lost me, but i'll lawl anyway...

    LOL

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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sox
    you've lost me, but i'll lawl anyway...

    LOL
    Lawl?

    Is that a Southern LoL?



    Ooops sorry Verzen

    Listen dude stop worrying about being illogical and logical

    I mean there's often illogical to be found in logical and logical to be found in illogical so the best thing is just to go with the flow and that way you will be in touch with tau and the chi and know by your instincts when to be logical and when to be illogical.

    Does that make sense? Is that logical? lol (Lawl)

    Most things don't make sense under closer inspection anyway
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  16. #15  
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    It's interesting to note that having a very brief scan over the philosophy forum verzen's name didn't occur.

    For someone who's trying to argue and promote using logic, I would have thoguht that would be a very good place to start learning the tricks of the trade...

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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!
    Quote Originally Posted by sox
    you've lost me, but i'll lawl anyway...

    LOL
    Lawl?

    Is that a Southern LoL?
    i meant lawl as in laugh out loud! :P

    southern?? im not american if you were getting at that!

    I'm from Scotland!!

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  18. #17  
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    southern?? im not american if you were getting at that!

    I'm from Scotland!!
    You should be right proud of that too. I live in southern America, and let me tell you, I miss good ol' New York with its urban stories and all. Down here, if things went any slower, we'd be going backwards!
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sox
    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!
    Quote Originally Posted by sox
    you've lost me, but i'll lawl anyway...

    LOL
    Lawl?

    Is that a Southern LoL?
    i meant lawl as in laugh out loud! :P

    southern?? im not american if you were getting at that!

    I'm from Scotland!!
    Achh Bonny Scotland!

    That's somewhere I've never been, and here I am living in Middle England! Isn't that bad!?!
    I am going to visit Scotland this year. I want to try Haggis and climb mountains!

    Well Laugh out Loud is normally written LOL

    Lawl made is sound like a Southern Drawl

    Lawl rhymes with drawl....yeah?......ach it dinna matter!

    I've always wanted to visit Scotland after reading the Broons when I was a kid!
    Absum! has never been bored in her life, but is becoming increasingly bored of the Science Forum! :?


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  20. #19  
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    the broons suck and so does haggis!

    "ach it dinna matter!"... if you were trying to sound scottish it should have been "och it disnae matter" making sure you dont pronounce the t's in matter 8)

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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!
    Quote Originally Posted by sox
    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!
    Quote Originally Posted by sox
    you've lost me, but i'll lawl anyway...

    LOL
    Lawl?

    Is that a Southern LoL?
    i meant lawl as in laugh out loud! :P

    southern?? im not american if you were getting at that!

    I'm from Scotland!!
    Achh Bonny Scotland!

    That's somewhere I've never been, and here I am living in Middle England! Isn't that bad!?!
    I am going to visit Scotland this year. I want to try Haggis and climb mountains!

    Well Laugh out Loud is normally written LOL

    Lawl made is sound like a Southern Drawl

    Lawl rhymes with drawl....yeah?......ach it dinna matter!

    I've always wanted to visit Scotland after reading the Broons when I was a kid!
    Been to Scotland once, for 2 weeks. I think there was one day when it didn't rain.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!
    Quote Originally Posted by sox
    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!
    Quote Originally Posted by sox
    you've lost me, but i'll lawl anyway...

    LOL
    Lawl?

    Is that a Southern LoL?
    i meant lawl as in laugh out loud! :P

    southern?? im not american if you were getting at that!

    I'm from Scotland!!
    Achh Bonny Scotland!

    That's somewhere I've never been, and here I am living in Middle England! Isn't that bad!?!
    I am going to visit Scotland this year. I want to try Haggis and climb mountains!

    Well Laugh out Loud is normally written LOL

    Lawl made is sound like a Southern Drawl

    Lawl rhymes with drawl....yeah?......ach it dinna matter!

    I've always wanted to visit Scotland after reading the Broons when I was a kid!
    Been to Scotland once, for 2 weeks. I think there was one day when it didn't rain.
    Yeah, summer's the best day of the year!

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  23. #22  
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    A day?

    We get a whole week here in the midlands... :wink:
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  24. #23  
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    You are logical only reference to atheism and perhaps the scientific method and do not attempt one iota to approach a theist using the logic they might see.

    You are an over opinionated, self righteous arsehole. And I'm glad you are, because the world needs more realists who are willing to slam their truth in anyones face.

    But theists do that as well. See the logic yet?

    Don't try and use scientific logic with theists, they don't use it and only accept scientific logic if it supports what they believe, a pick and mix if you will. Now that said I can't say all theists do that. Take Mitchell for instance. He's the most unique theist I have ever encountered.
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sox
    the broons suck and so does haggis!

    "ach it dinna matter!"... if you were trying to sound scottish it should have been "och it disnae matter" making sure you dont pronounce the t's in matter 8)
    AaaaOOHHH Now you gone spoilt it!

    The Broons rocked! Haggis....mmm..? Ok I'll pass on that one then

    ok....thank you...no t's

    Och it disnae matter.....
    Absum! has never been bored in her life, but is becoming increasingly bored of the Science Forum! :?


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  26. #25  
    sox
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    och aye yer daiin it awrite noo :wink:

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  27. #26  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sox
    It's interesting to note that having a very brief scan over the philosophy forum verzen's name didn't occur.

    For someone who's trying to argue and promote using logic, I would have thoguht that would be a very good place to start learning the tricks of the trade...
    Maybe he needs some time to learn what not to do in this forum before he can be ready for the high standards over there. LOL
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  28. #27  
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    ^haha

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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    I didn't make up the term, "Logical Fallacies" nor did I create the list.
    One search on google will bring up a list of logical fallacies. In fact, here is a list of the "major ones." This list does not contain all logical fallacies.

    http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

    An example of a logical fallacy that is not included is, "Not a True Scotsman"
    But that is the list of the most commonly used arguments which are logical fallacies. In order to debate logically and precisely, you should learn what this list is and how to avoid the use of these arguments.
    your link only has forty odd fallacies, However wikipedia has about 80, But I'm sure theres more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Logical_fallacies
    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
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