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  1. #1 At it again? 
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    First it was Scopes, then Dober, and now this...

    http://www.livescience.com/culture/0...evolution.html

    It's a science class, not Theology 101[/url]


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    the scientists are wrong, evolution does not exist and people are being lied to by a majority of scientists.


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    Forum Sophomore Gods servant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    the scientists are wrong, evolution does not exist and people are being lied to by a majority of scientists.
    i do accept evolution theroy to be more of what should hapen than dawin theroy. i do not accept dawin theroy that every species came from a common acestor, its flawed.

    by the way this is the religious subforum not the theroy subforum, evolution has no place in the religious subforum because it is not a religion and it does accept the possibility of there being a creator,
    verzin says: Christians believe in a god that murders kills people.......
    zeb replies:
    I see this argument as a typical pre-concept of people, which never showed a real interest to understand the bible, and the reason of certain things, why they happened. If i explain you, what Gods intent was, and the reason, these things happened, you will certainly come with the next argument, and then the next. And the final will be, no outcome, or change of opinion. I am quit sure, you have made up your mind already, don't you ?
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    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    the scientists are wrong, evolution does not exist and people are being lied to by a majority of scientists.
    What is the motiviation of these scientists to lie?
    Are you sure you don't just mean that you believe the scientists are mistaken? Do you really believe that tens of thousands, indeed hundreds of thousands of individuals have joined together to tell a lie?
    I ask again, what would be their motivation?
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    the scientists are wrong, evolution does not exist and people are being lied to by a majority of scientists.
    What is the motiviation of these scientists to lie?
    Are you sure you don't just mean that you believe the scientists are mistaken? Do you really believe that tens of thousands, indeed hundreds of thousands of individuals have joined together to tell a lie?
    I ask again, what would be their motivation?
    to discredit religion and the idea of a creator, that was darwins goal, so are this scientist goal
    verzin says: Christians believe in a god that murders kills people.......
    zeb replies:
    I see this argument as a typical pre-concept of people, which never showed a real interest to understand the bible, and the reason of certain things, why they happened. If i explain you, what Gods intent was, and the reason, these things happened, you will certainly come with the next argument, and then the next. And the final will be, no outcome, or change of opinion. I am quit sure, you have made up your mind already, don't you ?
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    to make discredit religion and the idea of a creator, that was darwins goal, so are this scientist goal
    Are you seriously suggesting that this was their only goal? They set out to understand how the world works with the sole motivation of discrediting religion? That is ridiculous!
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    to make discredit religion and the idea of a creator, that was darwins goal, so are this scientist goal
    Are you seriously suggesting that this was their only goal? They set out to understand how the world works with the sole motivation of discrediting religion? That is ridiculous!

    am sorry kalster but that what it seems they are doing and if you look at this sub-forum you will see atheist barraging religion, calling them incest, rapist and their god genocidal manics or even god raped marry to make her pregnant, which is nonsense. On BBC one and two they have been trying to impose the idea of evolution and the no existent of creator and we came from an accidental and unthinkable blast and we cam to by a pool of amino acid then system of cells and so on, that i accept as a credible theory but to suggest humans came from common ancestor of rats and monkeys. That i do not accept. and i will not stand atheist bombarding the believing of Darwin theory on me every day I watch TV or go in the bus.
    verzin says: Christians believe in a god that murders kills people.......
    zeb replies:
    I see this argument as a typical pre-concept of people, which never showed a real interest to understand the bible, and the reason of certain things, why they happened. If i explain you, what Gods intent was, and the reason, these things happened, you will certainly come with the next argument, and then the next. And the final will be, no outcome, or change of opinion. I am quit sure, you have made up your mind already, don't you ?
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    Gods servant:

    For a very long discussion on intelligent design, young earth creationism, evolution etc, take a look at THIS thread. It is a very long read, filled with tangents and heated tempers, but there is lots of stuff to learn in there.

    Alternatively, you are free to open a thread about more specific topics in the relevant sections if you want to learn more.

    Evolution is a fact. The theory part comes into how it works only. Abiogenesis and big bang theory does not form part of evolution and have varying amounts of supporting evidence, but the evidence is there and at the moment they are best fit theories. You are free to open threads about them as well if you wish.

    The reason I am saying all of this, is because it has been my experience that the vast majority of people that oppose the above theories simply don't know the subject matter very well and are basing their opinions on religiously motivated and erroneously acquired counter theories that almost invariantly support a preconceived idea. There are also many cases (believe it or not) of people deliberately manufacturing false evidence, deliberately misrepresenting raw data and committing the full spectrum of logical fallacies in an attempt to disprove theories that oppose their preconceived religious ideas. I invite you to take a closer look.

    This is extended to archaeologist as well or anybody that has issues with evolution.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant

    to discredit religion and the idea of a creator, that was darwins goal, so are this scientist goal
    I don't see how that was Darwin's goal, since he repeatedly mentions God throughout the Origin of Species.



    "There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved"

    - Charles Darwin
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    the scientists are wrong, evolution does not exist and people are being lied to by a majority of scientists.
    OK. So how do you propose life developed? Was made in an inexplicable way by an undefined being which was itself made, or not, in an undefined way by something or nothing, who then made evidence suggesting he did not exist just for a laugh? Sure, makes perfect sense...
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    What is the motiviation of these scientists to lie?
    Are you sure you don't just mean that you believe the scientists are mistaken? Do you really believe that tens of thousands, indeed hundreds of thousands of individuals have joined together to tell a lie?
    1. i said they lie i did not ssay they created a conspiracy.
    2. they reject God and the Bible thus they must makeup some alternative to try and answer people's questions. their alternative is a lie, thus they lie.
    3. the fact that thousands of scientists reject God inspite of what they actually see, proves the Bible true when it says that 'people are willfully ignorant'. they do not want God and they want tohave alternatives. they aren't being forced, they choose to ignore the truth.

    Evolution is a fact.
    evolutionis not a fact. they can't even prove it exists let alone state that it is true. it is all conjecture based upon the violations of the major principles of scientific study.

    I don't see how that was Darwin's goal, since he repeatedly mentions God throughout the Origin of Species.
    mentioning the word 'God' does not mean that someone has belief or faith. Dawkins mentions the word also, yet he would be the first to say he does not believe in him.

    if you have read darwin's autobiography, you would have seen the part where he says he lost all faith in God and that God meant nothing to him. long before he wrote his books.

    it is also interesting to know that darwin never had a science degree yet thousands of people with science degrees follow his ideas in spite of the fact that scientific experiments actually prove the Bible true not evolution.

    the stronghold of 'prediction' falls flat when it disallows other solutions to be possible and only allows the answer to be 'evolution'. this is gross manipulation and closed-mindedness. i listened to one geneticist who phrased it this way 'if evolution is true, then such and such would happen'

    well that does not eliminate the possibility of other methods producing the same result. i could say that if creation is true then humans will continue to begat humans. look they do, so creation is true. prediction in this sense is a faulty tool designed to brainwash the ignorant.

    by the way, all you have to do is go to a plant nursery, a animal hospital and a maternity ward of a human hospital and see the results of creation in action every day. you donot need degrees or complicated experiments towitness it. you cannot do the same with evolution, thus evolutionists are lying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    1. i said they lie i did not ssay they created a conspiracy.
    So all these people, independently and quite miraculously all decide to tell the same lie. An interesting hypothesis.
    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    2. they reject God and the Bible thus they must makeup some alternative to try and answer people's questions. their alternative is a lie, thus they lie.
    What about all those who reject the Bible, yet accept God? Hindus, Moslems, Zoroastrians?
    What about all those scientists who believe in evolution and accept God and the Bible? How do you account for the thousands of those?
    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    3. the fact that thousands of scientists reject God inspite of what they actually see, proves the Bible true when it says that 'people are willfully ignorant'. they do not want God and they want tohave alternatives. they aren't being forced, they choose to ignore the truth.
    There is pretty solid evidence that the one ignoring the truth around here is you. Your attempt to avoid facing the truth by inventing this infantile notion of group lying is rather sad. Indeed, your entire fantasy life is sad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    What is the motiviation of these scientists to lie?
    Are you sure you don't just mean that you believe the scientists are mistaken? Do you really believe that tens of thousands, indeed hundreds of thousands of individuals have joined together to tell a lie?
    1. i said they lie i did not ssay they created a conspiracy.
    2. they reject God and the Bible thus they must makeup some alternative to try and answer people's questions. their alternative is a lie, thus they lie.
    3. the fact that thousands of scientists reject God inspite of what they actually see, proves the Bible true when it says that 'people are willfully ignorant'. they do not want God and they want tohave alternatives. they aren't being forced, they choose to ignore the truth.
    1. Very few people lie for no reason.
    2. And based on what do you assume that the bible is not a lie?
    3. I have never seen any evidence to even suggest the existance of a god. I have, however, seen huge amounts of evidence that no gods exist, and still more evidence to support evolution. 'Choosing to ignore the truth' is how I would describe most religions.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    Evolution is a fact.
    evolutionis not a fact. they can't even prove it exists let alone state that it is true. it is all conjecture based upon the violations of the major principles of scientific study.
    Evolution is a fact as much as any other fact is. Yes, it could theoretically still be disproved. But so far there is no evidence to the contrary, and much to support it. If you claim, there is, please provide sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    I don't see how that was Darwin's goal, since he repeatedly mentions God throughout the Origin of Species.
    mentioning the word 'God' does not mean that someone has belief or faith. Dawkins mentions the word also, yet he would be the first to say he does not believe in him.

    if you have read darwin's autobiography, you would have seen the part where he says he lost all faith in God and that God meant nothing to him. long before he wrote his books.
    Good. So he should.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    it is also interesting to know that darwin never had a science degree yet thousands of people with science degrees follow his ideas in spite of the fact that scientific experiments actually prove the Bible true not evolution.
    I have no science degree. I can still tell scientific evidence from what you are spouting.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    the stronghold of 'prediction' falls flat when it disallows other solutions to be possible and only allows the answer to be 'evolution'. this is gross manipulation and closed-mindedness. i listened to one geneticist who phrased it this way 'if evolution is true, then such and such would happen'
    You are saying god exists and as a result evolution is not true. You are disallowing all other alternatives. If anything, you are worse, since science changes its theories to fit the evidence. You, I suspect, will keep pretending to know better for the rest of your life.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    well that does not eliminate the possibility of other methods producing the same result. i could say that if creation is true then humans will continue to begat humans. look they do, so creation is true. prediction in this sense is a faulty tool designed to brainwash the ignorant.
    Theories are created to link facts, and explain them. Predictions are made based on theories, to estimate an outcome. Saying that humans will continue to be humans is a prediction, but since you propose no theory for why this is linked to creationism, you cannot conclude that it is evidence for creationism. Nor can you create a theory that works without any data to back you up.

    I could also argue that religion is a faulty tool designed to brainwash the ignorant. I know, because it was used on me from a young age; forced prayer, forced attendance of church, told that it did happen, not that some believe it did. So no telling me religion isn't like that, because it is. I've been there. Religion compells you to force others to abandon reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    by the way, all you have to do is go to a plant nursery, a animal hospital and a maternity ward of a human hospital and see the results of creation in action every day. you donot need degrees or complicated experiments towitness it.
    I know potatoes exist and I know I exist. Therefore I am a potato.

    Where is your mechanism? Where is your evidence? Where are your sources?

    You cannot explain creationism scientifically, because it is inherrantly unscientific. It avoids explaining anything, and religion teaches not to ask questions to which the answer is not already known.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    you cannot do the same with evolution, thus evolutionists are lying.
    I have no degree in science, but I can still witness evolution. I see it all the time. Genetics in general, I see everywhere. But I am yet to see any evidence to support god and creationism. Hence I choose evolution over flying invisible man.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    evolutionis not a fact. they can't even prove it exists let alone state that it is true. it is all conjecture based upon the violations of the major principles of scientific study.
    No, it is a fact, you can observe change in frequency of alleles within a population.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    mentioning the word 'God' does not mean that someone has belief or faith. Dawkins mentions the word also, yet he would be the first to say he does not believe in him.

    if you have read darwin's autobiography, you would have seen the part where he says he lost all faith in God and that God meant nothing to him. long before he wrote his books.
    Don't see how this is relevant. Darwin went to church and attended seminary school for a short period. Moreover, he isn't just mentioning God, he is crediting God with creating life.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    it is also interesting to know that darwin never had a science degree yet thousands of people with science degrees follow his ideas in spite of the fact that scientific experiments actually prove the Bible true not evolution.
    So... Robert Hooke didn't have a science degree either, do you propose Hooke's Law is false as well?

    He worked as a naturalist and his methodology and results were published, it doesn't matter what his education was. Moreover, delving into science when you had an arts degree was common practice at the time, especially since I don't believe degrees in naturalism were even available.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    the stronghold of 'prediction' falls flat when it disallows other solutions to be possible and only allows the answer to be 'evolution'. this is gross manipulation and closed-mindedness. i listened to one geneticist who phrased it this way 'if evolution is true, then such and such would happen'

    well that does not eliminate the possibility of other methods producing the same result. i could say that if creation is true then humans will continue to begat humans. look they do, so creation is true. prediction in this sense is a faulty tool designed to brainwash the ignorant.
    Scientific predictions are used to test hypotheses, that's part of the scientific model. I can provide an alternate hypothesis to why humans beget humans in a one generation timeframe. It is much more difficult to propose a testable hypothesis other than evolution to explain fossils, phylogenetic results, comparative anatomy, and much more evidence of evolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    by the way, all you have to do is go to a plant nursery, a animal hospital and a maternity ward of a human hospital and see the results of creation in action every day. you donot need degrees or complicated experiments towitness it. you cannot do the same with evolution, thus evolutionists are lying.
    Sure

    I can't see ultraviolet light, so it must not exist. This is just too retarded to take seriously.
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    Archaeologist; you are on a scientific forum [cue the shock, I know]. Try presenting your views in a scientific way, using evidence and sources to support your controversial views. Otherwise, they will be dismissed by 3 different people within a few minutes, as just happened.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    ou are on a scientific forum [cue the shock, I know]. Try presenting your views in a scientific way, using evidence and sources to support your controversial views. Otherwise, they will be dismissed by 3 different people within a few minutes, as just happened
    1. the subject is God and creation not scientific experiments so your way doesn't count.

    2. science is NOT the final authority or any authority. it is a finite, fallible field filled with finite and fallible people who need to humble themselves before God and repent fromtheir sins and arrogance.

    3. your dismissal only shows YOUR ignorance and refusal to see the truth.
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    i was thinking of refuting you all point by point but all i see is the ridiculousness and the extremes you take things to in order to hang on to your false beliefs.

    i see no point in wasting my time or energy talking to a bunch of close & narrow minded arrogant ppeople who think they are more than they really are.

    it is quite clear you are blind to the evidence of God's existance but i will address a coupel of galt's points for fun;

    So all these people, independently and quite miraculously all decide to tell the same lie. An interesting hypothesis
    the answer is yes as the Bible tells us that God will send a powerful delusion upon people and they will believe the lie. if you want chapter and verse, i will provide it when you start providing references toyour statements.

    What about all those who reject the Bible, yet accept God? Hindus, Moslems, Zoroastrians?
    you cannot reject the Bible and accept God. it is impossible. those people you mentioned follow false gods and the one true God.

    Jesus said, 'i am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh to the father excpet by me.' they are out of luck if they reject Jesus as their savior.

    What about all those scientists who believe in evolution and accept God and the Bible? How do you account for the thousands of those?
    you cannot accept evolution and accept God, it is impossible. One, you call God a lair which says he can sin and two, Jesus said 'if you do not believe Moses then you won't believe me' in other words if you reject moses' words about creation then you will reject Jesus' words .

    There is pretty solid evidence that the one ignoring the truth around here is you
    going to the personal attack only displays your true character and proves you are the ones avoiding the truth. this is the most common step in discussions with secular people. when faced with the turth, they resort to innuendos and personal attacks. never fails and you just did it here.
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    drowsy turtle, you need to go get help from some true christains as your problems require too much time to deal with on an internet chat room.

    when you are dealing with religion or spiritualmatters, science rules have no say. you are on God's turf and it is His rules that run the show. manipulating the playing field does not get you to the truth, it just allows you to side step it because it is not what you want to hear.

    evolution does not exist, never has been proven to exist and the credit given is only accredited to it. there is no proof that evolution is responsible for anything you seem to believe it has accomplished.

    oh and Gen. 1:31, i believe, states 'thus the heaven and the earth were completed in akll their vast array.'

    after creation there was no ongoing process continuing the work. God's spoken word created it all nolt some empty, thoughtless, cold process which doesn't give a darn about you or anyone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    drowsy turtle, you need to go get help from some true christains as your problems require too much time to deal with on an internet chat room.

    when you are dealing with religion or spiritualmatters, science rules have no say. you are on God's turf and it is His rules that run the show. manipulating the playing field does not get you to the truth, it just allows you to side step it because it is not what you want to hear.

    evolution does not exist, never has been proven to exist and the credit given is only accredited to it. there is no proof that evolution is responsible for anything you seem to believe it has accomplished.

    oh and Gen. 1:31, i believe, states 'thus the heaven and the earth were completed in akll their vast array.'

    after creation there was no ongoing process continuing the work. God's spoken word created it all nolt some empty, thoughtless, cold process which doesn't give a darn about you or anyone.
    You obviously know nothing about evolution.

    Moreover, don't you think it is a tad bit hypocritical to attack evolution, and then say science has no place being discussed here? The topic is clearly science related. You're the one who brought up the vast global conspiracy of scientist to somehow make everyone stop believing in God, we haven't exactly worked out how we'll profit from it though. You think as scientist we would have thought that out before hand. It's also amazing that we've managed to keep it up for 150 years.



    You are seriously delusional.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    drowsy turtle, you need to go get help from some true christains as your problems require too much time to deal with on an internet chat room.
    Being lied to by religions was the problem I had. Don't worry, I gave myself therapy and I'm better now; I just ignore them.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    when you are dealing with religion or spiritualmatters, science rules have no say. you are on God's turf and it is His rules that run the show. manipulating the playing field does not get you to the truth, it just allows you to side step it because it is not what you want to hear.
    I am sidestepping nothing. I only say that which I can back up with evidence. You should try this at some point.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    evolution does not exist, never has been proven to exist and the credit given is only accredited to it. there is no proof that evolution is responsible for anything you seem to believe it has accomplished.
    There is a lot of evidence. Want me to show you some?

    There is, conversely, none for god.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    oh and Gen. 1:31, i believe, states 'thus the heaven and the earth were completed in akll their vast array.'
    OK, trust the bible if you want. Of course, it says that the Earth is only 6000 years old, and hence the ancient egyptian civilisation outdates creation.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    after creation there was no ongoing process continuing the work. God's spoken word created it all nolt some empty, thoughtless, cold process which doesn't give a darn about you or anyone.
    Then why do we have DNA? Why does changing the DNA of an organism change its physical appearance? Why are humans now, on average, almost a foot taller now than they were a few hundred years ago? How does selective breeding work, if it is not evolution? If selective breeding is possible, how can you say that evolution isn't, when they amount to the same things?
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    it is quite clear you are blind to the evidence of God's existance but i will address a coupel of galt's points for fun;
    That's Mr. Galt to you, with a capital G, just like God. I hope you enjoyed yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    ....... the Bible tells us that God will send a powerful delusion upon people and they will believe the lie. if you want chapter and verse, i will provide it when you start providing references toyour statements.
    Don't be silly. I certainly don't need your ill informed scriptural knowledge to guide me around the Bible.
    Second Thessalonians Chapter 2 Verse 11
    And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    you cannot reject the Bible and accept God. it is impossible. those people you mentioned follow false gods and the one true God.
    Arrogant misanthrope.
    you cannot accept evolution and accept God, it is impossible. One, you call God a lair which says he can sin and two, Jesus said 'if you do not believe Moses then you won't believe me' in other words if you reject moses' words about creation then you will reject Jesus' words .
    Ignorant fetishist.

    going to the personal attack only displays your true character and proves you are the ones avoiding the truth.
    Going to personal attack reveals that I know I have zero chance of breaking down the wall of self righteous ignorance and willfull denial that you have surrounded yourself with. Such behaviour as your are indulging in is an offence against humantiy, an offence against reason, and an offence against God. I have nothing further to say to you. You are beyond hope. Beyond redemption.

    OK, one final thing. Never dare to call me secular again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    the scientists are wrong, evolution does not exist and people are being lied to by a majority of scientists.
    i do accept evolution theroy to be more of what should hapen than dawin theroy. i do not accept dawin theroy that every species came from a common acestor, its flawed.

    by the way this is the religious subforum not the theroy subforum, evolution has no place in the religious subforum because it is not a religion and it does accept the possibility of there being a creator,
    God's Servant, no offense, but to prevent you from sounding like a moron I would suggest you do a little research. When Darwin first developed his theory, he came to the conclusion of natural selection and survival of the fittest. That is what Darwin evolution is. However, scientists have expanded on that theory with a common ancestor. Darwin wasn't the only person around his time to come up with that theory either. There was another man who came up with it who was halfway around the world and did not know who Darwin was.
    "Democracy is a problem because it treats everyone as equals." - Betty Fischer

    "back in the 50's or 60's Nicky Criuz was a gang leader who met David Wilkerson in New York City. After much discussion over months or years, i forget how long, Wilkerson's wife became pregnant. one day Cruz decides to test God, he basically prayed--God if you are real let the baby be born a boy-- it was a boy. "
    - Logic of a creationist

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    the scientists are wrong, evolution does not exist and people are being lied to by a majority of scientists.
    What is the motiviation of these scientists to lie?
    Are you sure you don't just mean that you believe the scientists are mistaken? Do you really believe that tens of thousands, indeed hundreds of thousands of individuals have joined together to tell a lie?
    I ask again, what would be their motivation?
    to discredit religion and the idea of a creator, that was darwins goal, so are this scientist goal
    God's servant, Darwin was actually studying to be a priest when he discovered this on the Beagle. I Highly doubt he was TRYING to discredit religion.
    "Democracy is a problem because it treats everyone as equals." - Betty Fischer

    "back in the 50's or 60's Nicky Criuz was a gang leader who met David Wilkerson in New York City. After much discussion over months or years, i forget how long, Wilkerson's wife became pregnant. one day Cruz decides to test God, he basically prayed--God if you are real let the baby be born a boy-- it was a boy. "
    - Logic of a creationist

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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    ou are on a scientific forum [cue the shock, I know]. Try presenting your views in a scientific way, using evidence and sources to support your controversial views. Otherwise, they will be dismissed by 3 different people within a few minutes, as just happened
    1. the subject is God and creation not scientific experiments so your way doesn't count.

    2. science is NOT the final authority or any authority. it is a finite, fallible field filled with finite and fallible people who need to humble themselves before God and repent fromtheir sins and arrogance.

    3. your dismissal only shows YOUR ignorance and refusal to see the truth.
    Science is fallible? Hmm, science has brought us to the moon, cured diseases, made us live longer and is the backbone of the modern day. It has even cured the black plague.
    What has religion given us? Oh right..

    Christians use to walk around in the street whipping themselves to try to prevent the black plague from infecting them. They thought it was a cure.
    Christians also came up with the witch trials. If you claim a person is a witch, that person must be drowned. If they live then they must be a witch and burn at the stake. Yeah, religious thinking for the win!
    "Democracy is a problem because it treats everyone as equals." - Betty Fischer

    "back in the 50's or 60's Nicky Criuz was a gang leader who met David Wilkerson in New York City. After much discussion over months or years, i forget how long, Wilkerson's wife became pregnant. one day Cruz decides to test God, he basically prayed--God if you are real let the baby be born a boy-- it was a boy. "
    - Logic of a creationist

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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    i was thinking of refuting you all point by point but all i see is the ridiculousness and the extremes you take things to in order to hang on to your false beliefs.

    i see no point in wasting my time or energy talking to a bunch of close & narrow minded arrogant ppeople who think they are more than they really are.

    it is quite clear you are blind to the evidence of God's existance but i will address a coupel of galt's points for fun;


    So all these people, independently and quite miraculously all decide to tell the same lie. An interesting hypothesis
    the answer is yes as the Bible tells us that God will send a powerful delusion upon people and they will believe the lie. if you want chapter and verse, i will provide it when you start providing references toyour statements.

    What about all those who reject the Bible, yet accept God? Hindus, Moslems, Zoroastrians?
    you cannot reject the Bible and accept God. it is impossible. those people you mentioned follow false gods and the one true God.

    Jesus said, 'i am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh to the father excpet by me.' they are out of luck if they reject Jesus as their savior.

    What about all those scientists who believe in evolution and accept God and the Bible? How do you account for the thousands of those?
    you cannot accept evolution and accept God, it is impossible. One, you call God a lair which says he can sin and two, Jesus said 'if you do not believe Moses then you won't believe me' in other words if you reject moses' words about creation then you will reject Jesus' words .

    There is pretty solid evidence that the one ignoring the truth around here is you
    going to the personal attack only displays your true character and proves you are the ones avoiding the truth. this is the most common step in discussions with secular people. when faced with the turth, they resort to innuendos and personal attacks. never fails and you just did it here.
    Hypocrits: Can't live with them, can't help but laugh at them.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    drowsy turtle, you need to go get help from some true christains as your problems require too much time to deal with on an internet chat room.

    when you are dealing with religion or spiritualmatters, science rules have no say. you are on God's turf and it is His rules that run the show. manipulating the playing field does not get you to the truth, it just allows you to side step it because it is not what you want to hear.

    evolution does not exist, never has been proven to exist and the credit given is only accredited to it. there is no proof that evolution is responsible for anything you seem to believe it has accomplished.

    oh and Gen. 1:31, i believe, states 'thus the heaven and the earth were completed in akll their vast array.'

    after creation there was no ongoing process continuing the work. God's spoken word created it all nolt some empty, thoughtless, cold process which doesn't give a darn about you or anyone.
    I'm just curious what your opinion on Neandrithal's really are..

    Archaeologist, i'm just curious. If evolution is not real, what is the appendix used for then? Or did I just go through an extreme amount of pain to get nothing removed because nothing got infected?
    "Democracy is a problem because it treats everyone as equals." - Betty Fischer

    "back in the 50's or 60's Nicky Criuz was a gang leader who met David Wilkerson in New York City. After much discussion over months or years, i forget how long, Wilkerson's wife became pregnant. one day Cruz decides to test God, he basically prayed--God if you are real let the baby be born a boy-- it was a boy. "
    - Logic of a creationist

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    Christians use to walk around in the street whipping themselves to try to prevent the black plague from infecting them. They thought it was a cure.
    Christians also came up with the witch trials. If you claim a person is a witch, that person must be drowned. If they live then they must be a witch and burn at the stake. Yeah, religious thinking for the win!
    whenever someone disses christianity, they always point to the people who use scripture wrongly or do not follow God's ways. when such people get honest, they will see that Christ brought far more thanthey give Him credit.

    all science has done is show what man can do with what God has provided. most of it wrong of course. scienceis responsible for more innocent lives being lost than were burned at the stake by the puritans yet you will see the science lovers ignore that fact.

    I'm just curious what your opinion on Neandrithal's really are..
    there were no such things as neanderthals and the whole theory ismadeup of cave art without written texts to confirm plus approx 400 incomplete skeletons. hardly enough evidence to claim such a species existed.

    since all men descended from adam, there is only 1 race thus neanderthals were actually human.

    If evolution is not real, what is the appendix used for then?
    you just destroyed your argument about science as it can't figure out why God put it there. so that shows you how limited the field of science really is.

    Never dare to call me secular again.
    now he is going to threats...he has made the leap to uncredibility in a heart beat and is ignored.

    It has even cured the black plague.
    it isn't cured, it still crops up from time to time, just not on the grand scale it once did.

    http://www.medicinenet.com/plague/article.htm
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    Christians use to walk around in the street whipping themselves to try to prevent the black plague from infecting them. They thought it was a cure.
    Christians also came up with the witch trials. If you claim a person is a witch, that person must be drowned. If they live then they must be a witch and burn at the stake. Yeah, religious thinking for the win!
    whenever someone disses christianity, they always point to the people who use scripture wrongly or do not follow God's ways.
    In this case, that is almost all christians.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    when such people get honest, they will see that Christ brought far more thanthey give Him credit.
    Jesus brought a series of bloody wars for no reason. I have no respect for a self-appointed messiah.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    all science has done is show what man can do with what God has provided. most of it wrong of course. scienceis responsible for more innocent lives being lost than were burned at the stake by the puritans yet you will see the science lovers ignore that fact.
    Throw your computer away then, it was made by science. And don't you dare go to hospital, ever. Just pray the pain away. The clothes you wear, the food you eat.... go and live in a cave, and leave us alone, if you really think science is a bad thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    I'm just curious what your opinion on Neandrithal's really are..
    there were no such things as neanderthals and the whole theory ismadeup of cave art without written texts to confirm plus approx 400 incomplete skeletons. hardly enough evidence to claim such a species existed.
    You think god made 400 skeletons that predate creation for a laugh, or something?

    I would say 400 skeletons is enough to prove a species existed. Some species alive today have less living members than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    since all men descended from adam, there is only 1 race thus neanderthals were actually human.
    That's the whole point. The were the same species as homo-erectus as one point, and split off (evolution). Do you know what evolution is?

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    If evolution is not real, what is the appendix used for then?
    you just destroyed your argument about science as it can't figure out why God put it there. so that shows you how limited the field of science really is.
    I believe that was a rhetorical question. In fact, the appendix was involved in removing some harmful substances from food, I believe. It has evolved to become a minor lymphatic vessel since, but has no real purpose. Because we evolved to not need it.

    Surely, religion should provide answers? And I mean proper explanations, not just 'god did it'. So far you have only told us what to think, not why.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    Never dare to call me secular again.
    now he is going to threats...he has made the leap to uncredibility in a heart beat and is ignored.
    'you're going to hell if you don't worship a big floating invisible man who has existed for ever, and is everywhere at once'

    I would say that is a threat.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    It has even cured the black plague.
    it isn't cured, it still crops up from time to time, just not on the grand scale it once did.
    Do you think it was cured by praying? Or by science?
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    Never dare to call me secular again.
    now he is going to threats...he has made the leap to uncredibility in a heart beat and is ignored.
    Ignored by you because you begin to suspect I may be more familiar with scripture than you. I can see why that would unnerve you.
    Acts Chapter 3 Verse 17
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    Ignored by you because you begin to suspect I may be more familiar with scripture than you. I can see why that would unnerve you.
    wrong you are ignored as your credibility has been destroyed and your attitude sucks.

    that is almost all christians.
    possibly but then you may be over-estimating that figure.

    Jesus brought a series of bloody wars for no reason. I have no respect for a self-appointed messiah.
    Jesus brought no wars, in fact He said, 'if my kingdom was of this world then my followers would fight' those who brought war did so on their own accord, hurting the cause of Christ.

    He was NOT sel-appointed. God appointed Him.

    Throw your computer away then, it was made by science.
    science did not make this. it was made using God given intelligence and God given raw materials by God created beings. science had little to do with it.

    You think god made 400 skeletons that predate creation for a laugh, or something?
    they do not pre-date creation. that is an assumption based upon conjecture not fact. (and a lot of twisting of reality)

    I would say 400 skeletons is enough to prove a species existed. Some species alive today have less living members than that.
    and they would all be wrong. read the book The First Humans by Ann Gibbons, i believe, i am doing that by memory. you will see how little evidence anthropologists use to determine age and how unrealistic they are with their evidence.

    i wouldn't trust them given the fact that a few miles down the road all archaeological sites do not uncover the same evidence and go far deeper than anthropologists do.

    It has evolved to become a minor lymphatic vessel since, but has no real purpose. Because we evolved to not need it.
    evolution has nothing to do with it. butyou still prove my point, science cannot do everything and has found a road block which renders it non-authoritative.

    religion should provide answers
    why? if God gvae details about everything He did, the Bible would be so thick no one could or would pick itup and no one would print it. God has given you brains so try using His ways to discover the appendix's purpose.

    I would say that is a threat.
    it is a choice and you can choose freely. it is up to you and no one will twist your arm to make it.

    Do you think it was cured by praying? Or by science?
    as i said, science hasn't cured it as it still crops up today.
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    Having read through this thread, I can definitely say that those against evolution have many inherent and basic misunderstandings as to how science, and evolution, currently works. The following story illustrates how you appear to behave in my eyes.

    Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.

    Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, and then kept on pouring.

    The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. "It is overfull. No more will go in!"

    "Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"
    As for the rest of you, I strongly discourage continued debates as they are quite fruitless. Instead, simply illustrate the fact they're wrong, and leave it up to them to discover. From the thousands upon thousands of posts, threads, and topics in this forum, I've only seen a few dozen where anyone changes their opinion. Not once have I seen, or heard of, a theist changing his mind on evolution.
    Om mani padme hum

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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    Ignored by you because you begin to suspect I may be more familiar with scripture than you. I can see why that would unnerve you.
    wrong you are ignored as your credibility has been destroyed and your attitude sucks.
    I shall wear these words as a badge of honour.
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    Having read through this thread, I can definitely say that those against evolution have many inherent and basic misunderstandings as to how science, and evolution, currently works
    this is a common accusation by evolutionists when the discussion is not going their way. they would be surprised at how much many of us know about evolution and it all boils down to conjecture.

    the main reason it is conjecture is because of the time frame needed to make things work. which is where evolutionists violate their own scientific principles, they cannot observe what they declare as true thus they must make something up to look good.

    as an example, the latest metero discovery has one woman scientists babbling on how this gives a look back into time when planets tried to form. problem is they still haven't proved that the planets formed in thatmanner and that meteor sheds no more light on the topic and all is left to ----guess what----- conjecture.

    As for the rest of you, I strongly discourage continued debates as they are quite fruitless. Instead, simply illustrate the fact they're wrong, and leave it up to them to discover. From the thousands upon thousands of posts, threads, and topics in this forum, I've only seen a few dozen where anyone changes their opinion. Not once have I seen, or heard of, a theist changing his mind on evolution
    This is also common and it is called the 'chicken exit' or the 'coward's way out'. In normal terms it is also known as, running and hiding. this is a very common act and was done not too long ago when a conference was being held to look at both sides of the issues. geuess which side re3fused to show aup and who made a lot of excuses to justify their absence---- the evolutionists.

    when faxced with the truth and being exposed for the frauds they are, they turn to this defense to support their lies and pursuit of lies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    the scientists are wrong, evolution does not exist and people are being lied to by a majority of scientists.
    Then what did we originate from?
    ~ One’s ultimate perfection depends on the development of all the members of society ~ Kabbalah
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    Quote Originally Posted by newnothing
    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    the scientists are wrong, evolution does not exist and people are being lied to by a majority of scientists.
    Then what did we originate from?
    RAT
    verzin says: Christians believe in a god that murders kills people.......
    zeb replies:
    I see this argument as a typical pre-concept of people, which never showed a real interest to understand the bible, and the reason of certain things, why they happened. If i explain you, what Gods intent was, and the reason, these things happened, you will certainly come with the next argument, and then the next. And the final will be, no outcome, or change of opinion. I am quit sure, you have made up your mind already, don't you ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist

    it isn't cured, it still crops up from time to time, just not on the grand scale it once did.
    It most certainly is cured.

    The existence of a cure, and the eradication of a causative organism like Yersinia Pestis is independent.

    Antibiotics can be used to cure the plague, we could try and go out and eradicate it in it's host organisms too, but I think making reasonable health care available to all people more productive.

    No one could possibly be this stupid, you must be a troll.

    And as to Neanderthals, we have more than just bones, we have DNA samples as well, and the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology is attempting to sequence the entire genome.

    Genetic extrapolations from current sequences place the divergence between Neanderthals and humans at 500,000 years ago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    Christians use to walk around in the street whipping themselves to try to prevent the black plague from infecting them. They thought it was a cure.
    Christians also came up with the witch trials. If you claim a person is a witch, that person must be drowned. If they live then they must be a witch and burn at the stake. Yeah, religious thinking for the win!
    whenever someone disses christianity, they always point to the people who use scripture wrongly or do not follow God's ways. when such people get honest, they will see that Christ brought far more thanthey give Him credit.

    all science has done is show what man can do with what God has provided. most of it wrong of course. scienceis responsible for more innocent lives being lost than were burned at the stake by the puritans yet you will see the science lovers ignore that fact.

    I'm just curious what your opinion on Neandrithal's really are..
    there were no such things as neanderthals and the whole theory ismadeup of cave art without written texts to confirm plus approx 400 incomplete skeletons. hardly enough evidence to claim such a species existed.

    since all men descended from adam, there is only 1 race thus neanderthals were actually human.

    If evolution is not real, what is the appendix used for then?
    you just destroyed your argument about science as it can't figure out why God put it there. so that shows you how limited the field of science really is.

    Never dare to call me secular again.
    now he is going to threats...he has made the leap to uncredibility in a heart beat and is ignored.

    It has even cured the black plague.
    it isn't cured, it still crops up from time to time, just not on the grand scale it once did.

    http://www.medicinenet.com/plague/article.htm
    FSM, I would like to pray and give you thanks. Without these evangilists, the world would be such a boring place to live. You have given us comedy and we give you thanks. RAmen.

    there were no such things as neanderthals and the whole theory ismadeup of cave art without written texts to confirm plus approx 400 incomplete skeletons. hardly enough evidence to claim such a species existed.

    since all men descended from adam, there is only 1 race thus neanderthals were actually human.
    Uh, we have fossil's which show significant changes. Plus we know that neandrithal's have different DNA then we do. I guess dinosaurs aren't real either then? They were just big humans?

    you just destroyed your argument about science as it can't figure out why God put it there. so that shows you how limited the field of science really is.
    Technically it was rhetorical, but you just made me laugh with your logic. Usually theists say that if they can't figure something out, God must have done it. Just like you did. You can't figure out why the appendix is their so your argument is "God did it."

    science did not make this. it was made using God given intelligence and God given raw materials by God created beings. science had little to do with it.
    PURE COMEDY! I love this man. He should be on SNL! Man, he would make a killing! Science created storage for electricity, and created robots, etc. You claim science has not done anything but kill people. If this was true, then why wernt computers around 4,000 years ago? Why are they reletively a new invention? You realise that there is a degree called computer SCIENCE, right? Or how about engineering? Those degrees are called SCIENCE degree's.

    as i said, science hasn't cured it as it still crops up today.
    AND this is where your credibility hits the shitter.
    There is a difference between the terms "Cure," "Vaccine," "treatment," and "Extinction." Now, if a virus becomes extinct, then that virus is no longer AROUND. It will NEVER crop up again unless the same evolutionary tract comes around that created it before.
    A vaccine PREVENTS infection but is not a cure. It is simply a coat to protect against an infestation of the virus.
    A treatment is where you can diminish the effects of the virus or disease but it is also not a cure.
    A cure is where you can completely dimish the virus or disease in a persons body. For instance, if I created a cure for HIV which completely eradicated the HIV in a persons body, the HIV would be CURED. It would STILL be around in OTHER people, but there would be a CURE for HIV.
    If I simply made a treatment for HIV which they have now, then I can dimish the effects of HIV and it wont cause as much damage as quickly as it usually does, but HIV will STILL be present in the body.
    A VACCINE which they have for the flu every year is something that they must give you prior to you obtaining the flu. If you already have the flu, it does jack shit to help you.
    If a virus is extinct, then that means that NO strain of that virus is around. It is nearly impossible for a virus or disease to become extinct.
    We have a cure for polio and for smallpox. Even though many think smallpox has become extinct, they still have samples of smallpox in labs to study it's effects for cures for future diseases.
    Just because something has been cured does not mean it is extinct. It just means that it is no longer present in a persons body.

    And you have lost any credibility you have had with your statement. You sir, are God's Jester. And I will laugh at every comment you make from here on.
    "Democracy is a problem because it treats everyone as equals." - Betty Fischer

    "back in the 50's or 60's Nicky Criuz was a gang leader who met David Wilkerson in New York City. After much discussion over months or years, i forget how long, Wilkerson's wife became pregnant. one day Cruz decides to test God, he basically prayed--God if you are real let the baby be born a boy-- it was a boy. "
    - Logic of a creationist

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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    This is also common and it is called the 'chicken exit' or the 'coward's way out'. In normal terms it is also known as, running and hiding. this is a very common act and was done not too long ago when a conference was being held to look at both sides of the issues. geuess which side re3fused to show aup and who made a lot of excuses to justify their absence---- the evolutionists.
    Lol. I'm convinced Archaeologist is a troll. In either case he fully supports my suggestion that everybody should stop trying. He's simply unconvincable.
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    He's simply unconvincable
    so? when one has the truth, they do not revert back to the lie. you are the ones with the problem not me.

    we have fossil's which show significant changes
    i have studied fossils and those so-called changes are only labeled through conjecture not fact. there is NO WAY you can pinpoint which 'change' came first. you have no way of knowing or proving if the change came via evolution or if the similar animals were fossilized indifferent positions.

    nor canyou prove which so called time period they actually came from as knowing how anthropologists finding a fossil near the surface declares it millions of years old, yet downthe road an archaeological dig 50-100 ft. deep dates its atifacts and skeletons to a few thousand years in age.

    your argument of plate tetonics moving the dirt up doesn't wash as all the archaeologicaldigs throughout the world do not confirmthis event nor uncovers any proof of it ever happening. the selective process is another fairy tale fromthsoe who willfully want to be deceived.

    Usually theists say that if they can't figure something out, God must have done it. Just like you did. You can't figure out why the appendix is their so your argument is "God did it."
    well what else can i say? i have never been shown an answer nor explanation (nor have i searched for one) for the purpose of the appendix and knowing that God created the body, that is the only answer that can be given. God put it in there for some reason which we haven't discovered.

    do you want me or other christians to lie?

    your semantics game doesn't wash either. people use the word 'cured' even though the possibility of contracting the disease is still possible. shall i list all of the 'cured ' cancer patients who later died of the same disease?

    your hope is in the wrong thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    so? when one has the truth, they do not revert back to the lie. you are the ones with the problem not me.
    Case in point. His mind reasons on absolutes (sith!), of truth and lies, rather than evidence and logic. He has the truth. He's not letting that go, because he believes in it. One cannot change anothers belief, one can only change anothers logic. As there is no logic in this belief, it cannot be changed by logical discussion. Further arguments ARE futile. Stop bothering with his intransigent position.
    Om mani padme hum

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    Case in point. His mind reasons on absolutes (sith!), of truth and lies, rather than evidence and logic. He has the truth. He's not letting that go, because he believes in it. One cannot change anothers belief, one can only change anothers logic. As there is no logic in this belief, it cannot be changed by logical discussion. Further arguments ARE futile. Stop bothering with his intransigent position
    this is so funny, evolutionists enjoy the God given right of free choice, just like christians, yet if i exercise mine and it disagrees with an evolutionist then i am suddenly void of logic, or thre is something wrong with me.

    it shows that the evolutionists does not allow others to freely choose nor can they accept those choices, even though i have sorted through the facts, compared both sides of the issue and found the truth and went with thatinstead of the evolutionist way of thinking.

    i am not the one with the problem nor am i belittling a person because they did not choose Christ. nor am i telling others to stay away from them because they have a screw loose or cannot be logical.

    it is quite clear that the evolutionist cannot be honest, cannot allow competition, or dissenting thought and the only reason for that is they are wrong. if they were right, then they would not be afraid of having creationists teaching their ways in the classroom or other places.

    their demand for a monopoly demonstrates a clear cut fear of being exposed for the fraud that evolution is. along with the tilted playing field and one-sided rules they demand before they get involved in any discussion or court case.

    if they were right and honest, they would not be afraid and would not employ such devious tactics.
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    this is so funny, evolutionists enjoy the God given right of free choice, just like christians, yet if i exercise mine and it disagrees with an evolutionist then i am suddenly void of logic, or thre is something wrong with me.
    If you fully believe that you can telepathically talk to a zombie after eating his body and drinking his blood then I would think you are crazy or something is wrong with you.
    If you fully believe that the entire world sinned because a man ate an apple off of a tree because of a talking snake, then I would think that you have no capability to reason.
    it shows that the evolutionists does not allow others to freely choose nor can they accept those choices, even though i have sorted through the facts, compared both sides of the issue and found the truth and went with thatinstead of the evolutionist way of thinking.
    You say the truth like it's actually the truth. It is your opinion or your belief. But it is not THE TRUTH. You see things like you want to see them. evolution is the backbone of biology. Even whales share evolutionary traits with land animals.

    it is quite clear that the evolutionist cannot be honest, cannot allow competition, or dissenting thought and the only reason for that is they are wrong. if they were right, then they would not be afraid of having creationists teaching their ways in the classroom or other places.
    The reason we don't want and are "afraid" of having creationist teaching their ways in the classroom is the same reason why we don't want or would be "afraid" of teaching that gravity is not real and sin holds things down. Or that we are the center of the universe. Teachers would knowingly teach a lie and we can't have that. I am deathly afraid of indoctrination that my children might be subject too.


    their demand for a monopoly demonstrates a clear cut fear of being exposed for the fraud that evolution is. along with the tilted playing field and one-sided rules they demand before they get involved in any discussion or court case.
    Evolution has been in the courts before when it was illegal to teach it in the 1920's. Guess what, in the 1920's it was illegal to teach evolution. Now it is illegal to teach creationism. Knowledge changes with the times.
    If evolution didn't exist neither would genetic changes. mutations wouldn't exist either. Cancer wouldn't exist, diseases wouldn't exist, the flu wouldn't exist... get real dude.


    if they were right and honest, they would not be afraid and would not employ such devious tactics.
    We ARE being honest. We just don't want you creationists telling lies to our children.
    "Democracy is a problem because it treats everyone as equals." - Betty Fischer

    "back in the 50's or 60's Nicky Criuz was a gang leader who met David Wilkerson in New York City. After much discussion over months or years, i forget how long, Wilkerson's wife became pregnant. one day Cruz decides to test God, he basically prayed--God if you are real let the baby be born a boy-- it was a boy. "
    - Logic of a creationist

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    Technically, in the classical sense, a zombie is a human being who has died and been reanimated, though not brought back to life, by a nefarious force. Said classical zombies are not self aware and are merely lifeless husks who do whatever nefarious force who reanimated them's bidding.

    In a more modern sense, a zombie can be the classical undead zombie, can be a kind of zombie known as the living dead how maintain self awareness and intelligence while still following whatever malign influence reanimated them, or the hopeless schmucks who infected by a disease or some such and are basically feral hunter.

    Nearly all zombies of all types share the common trait of attempting to kill any live, unaffected human beings they find, either driven by malign influence, hunger, or whatever biological agent affected them.

    While I can see the parallel your trying to make between zombies and Jesus of Nazareth verzen, I am pretty sure all Christian denominations maintain the belief that Jesus was resurrected (i.e. brought back to life)
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    "Democracy is a problem because it treats everyone as equals." - Betty Fischer

    "back in the 50's or 60's Nicky Criuz was a gang leader who met David Wilkerson in New York City. After much discussion over months or years, i forget how long, Wilkerson's wife became pregnant. one day Cruz decides to test God, he basically prayed--God if you are real let the baby be born a boy-- it was a boy. "
    - Logic of a creationist

    Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur
    ""What can be asserted without reason, can be dismissed without reason. ""
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist

    this is so funny, evolutionists enjoy the God given right of free choice, just like christians, yet if i exercise mine and it disagrees with an evolutionist then i am suddenly void of logic, or thre is something wrong with me.
    You're on forum specifically intended for debate o.O
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    You're on forum specifically intended for debate o.O
    whatever that means/

    you are in the religion section which means that scintific rules do not apply. you have strayed outside of your limits and scope. when dealing with the supernatural science has shot itself inthe foot by its own definition and has limited itself to going the wrong way looking for the wrong answers.

    looking for natural answers when the event was supernatural only means you do not want to know the truth but want what you want in its place.

    You say the truth like it's actually the truth. It is your opinion or your belief. But it is not THE TRUTH. You see things like you want to see them. evolution is the backbone of biology. Even whales share evolutionary traits with land animals
    of course it is the truth and it is not my opinion. you forget what Jesus said 'ye shall know the truth and it shall set you free' . your calling it my opinion just demonstrates your unwillingness to investigate what i have said to continue down the path you have selected and feelgood about that choice.

    evolution may be the backbone of secular biology but it is NOT the backbone of biology.

    Even whales share evolutionary traits with land animals
    SO? you paint a picture ona canvas, a wall, acylinder, a rock etc. but mostly use the same paints. did these paintings evolve from each other or did you just use some of the same paints in all of the pictures?

    you forget, i have studied fossils and it is impossible to say without conjecture that evolution was evident, responsible or even present at the time of the supposed changes.

    you are looking at animals embedded in rock and you do not know in what position they were in when fossilized. they didn't just all lay down and died in the most convenient pose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    looking for natural answers when the event was supernatural only means you do not want to know the truth but want what you want in its place.
    A phenomenon is only deemed supernatural if it cannot be explained as a result of a lack of data. It's a pathetic label which only replaces one unknown with another. One shouldn't assume anything when one knows nothing.

    The price for truth is uncertainty.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    of course it is the truth and it is not my opinion. you forget what Jesus said 'ye shall know the truth and it shall set you free' . your calling it my opinion just demonstrates your unwillingness to investigate what i have said to continue down the path you have selected and feelgood about that choice.

    evolution may be the backbone of secular biology but it is NOT the backbone of biology.
    What is "secular biology"?

    It's as if you've found an ideology you don't like where you just lump in other things you don't like into a fanatical fantasy that this ideology, and all that's lumped together with it, is part of a great conspiracy to decieve mankind to the hands of Satan.

    I'm of course assuming too much, but I've seen the symptoms before.

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    SO? you paint a picture ona canvas, a wall, acylinder, a rock etc. but mostly use the same paints. did these paintings evolve from each other or did you just use some of the same paints in all of the pictures?

    you forget, i have studied fossils and it is impossible to say without conjecture that evolution was evident, responsible or even present at the time of the supposed changes.

    you are looking at animals embedded in rock and you do not know in what position they were in when fossilized. they didn't just all lay down and died in the most convenient pose.
    One thing scientists look for when confirming a theory [or hypothesis] is; consistency. There's data from many fields, not just biology, which shows consistency with the theory of evolution. To ignore consistency, evidence, experiments and accurate predictions -that the theory of evolution has produced- is to delude oneself completely, ignominiously, to the point of almost inhuman denial. The absense of reason, if you will.
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    A phenomenon is only deemed supernatural if it cannot be explained as a result of a lack of data. It's a pathetic label which only replaces one unknown with another. One shouldn't assume anything when one knows nothing
    except secular science and man are NOT the final authority nor the definers of such. they would not know the difference between a supernatural act and a supernatural act using normal methods.

    It's as if you've found an ideology you don't like where you just lump in other things you don't like into a fanatical fantasy that this ideology, and all that's lumped together with it, is part of a great conspiracy to decieve mankind to the hands of Satan
    if you do not follow God then you are follow evil and the devil will lead you astray, convincing you that you are correct and christians, the Bible and Jesus are wrong. until you accept the fact that evil influence is here and working, you will never find the truth and your way out.

    One thing scientists look for when confirming a theory [or hypothesis] is; consistency
    it would be so much fun if people would stop telling me things i already know. consistancy is not a good indicator because the 'scientist' could be consistantly making the same mistake and getting the same results each time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    A phenomenon is only deemed supernatural if it cannot be explained as a result of a lack of data. It's a pathetic label which only replaces one unknown with another. One shouldn't assume anything when one knows nothing
    except secular science and man are NOT the final authority nor the definers of such. they would not know the difference between a supernatural act and a supernatural act using normal methods.

    It's as if you've found an ideology you don't like where you just lump in other things you don't like into a fanatical fantasy that this ideology, and all that's lumped together with it, is part of a great conspiracy to decieve mankind to the hands of Satan
    if you do not follow God then you are follow evil and the devil will lead you astray, convincing you that you are correct and christians, the Bible and Jesus are wrong. until you accept the fact that evil influence is here and working, you will never find the truth and your way out.

    One thing scientists look for when confirming a theory [or hypothesis] is; consistency
    it would be so much fun if people would stop telling me things i already know. consistancy is not a good indicator because the 'scientist' could be consistantly making the same mistake and getting the same results each time.
    If a study is scientific then it has to be peer reviewed. Do you know how rare the chances are that every single scientist that reviewed a certain study would make the SAME mistake OVER and OVER again? Do you know how absurd you sound?
    "Democracy is a problem because it treats everyone as equals." - Betty Fischer

    "back in the 50's or 60's Nicky Criuz was a gang leader who met David Wilkerson in New York City. After much discussion over months or years, i forget how long, Wilkerson's wife became pregnant. one day Cruz decides to test God, he basically prayed--God if you are real let the baby be born a boy-- it was a boy. "
    - Logic of a creationist

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    ""What can be asserted without reason, can be dismissed without reason. ""
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    you forget, i have studied fossils
    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    you are looking at animals embedded in rock and you do not know in what position they were in when fossilized. they didn't just all lay down and died in the most convenient pose.
    These two remarks are self contradictory. No one who has studied fossils could rationally make the second group of statements.
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    If a study is scientific then it has to be peer reviewed. Do you know how rare the chances are that every single scientist that reviewed a certain study would make the SAME mistake OVER and OVER again? Do you know how absurd you sound
    peer reviewed means nothing. it is as easily manipulated as a businesses accounting books. you continually rely on corrupted mechanisms to prove your point and all you are doing is just applying circular reasoning. we are right because our system says we are right.

    there is very little honesty in your system. yes scientists can make the same mistake over and over again. you just do not want to admit the fallacies in your ideas.

    These two remarks are self contradictory. No one who has studied fossils could rationally make the second group of statements
    you would be wrong. in fact you cannot even make the distinction which is the mother or daughter fossil because the 'proof' is in a system that relies on subjectivism and corruptible/manipulatible dating systems.

    like above, we are right because our system says we are right. sorry but you are wrong and being lead astray.
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    we are right because our system says we are right.
    Exacly what you're doing.
    "God is real because our bible says God is real," or "Creationism is real and our ancestors were Adam and Eve because our bible says that same thing."
    You are a hypocrit
    You are fighting against evolution by using the same logic that your arguments are composed of.
    there is very little honesty in your system. yes scientists can make the same mistake over and over again. you just do not want to admit the fallacies in your ideas.
    The SAME scientist making the same mistake over and over again is a possibility.
    DIFFERENCE scientists making the same mistakes as that ONE scientist over and over again is not a possibility.
    "Democracy is a problem because it treats everyone as equals." - Betty Fischer

    "back in the 50's or 60's Nicky Criuz was a gang leader who met David Wilkerson in New York City. After much discussion over months or years, i forget how long, Wilkerson's wife became pregnant. one day Cruz decides to test God, he basically prayed--God if you are real let the baby be born a boy-- it was a boy. "
    - Logic of a creationist

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    Exacly what you're doing
    is it? archaeology-- there has never been a discovery which disproves the Bible. all discoveries have proven it true. k.a. kitchen has proven through scholarly research that the price for joseph for slavery was the exact amount quoted in the Bible.

    physics-- there has not been one discovery that has disproven the bible. gravity is still a mystery to all. physics and all science cannot figure that one out.

    chemistry-- not one discovery that has disproven the Bible.

    Biology-- the same thing. i

    n all fields, there has not been one discovery thathas disproven the Bible. amy contradiction comes from theory, conjecture, unbelief, lack of information, lack of supporting evidence, circular reasoning and fallible sources like the dating systems which cannot be proven to be accurate.

    not one evolutionary claim has been substantiated and not one intermediary species has ever been observed. it has been conjectured and positioned but never observed or proven true.

    You are a hypocrit
    You are fighting against evolution by using the same logic that your arguments are composed of.
    now you are resorting to false accusations without proof or all the evidence.
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    DIFFERENCE scientists making the same mistakes as that ONE scientist over and over again is not a possibility
    that is wrong. it is very much a possibility.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    that is wrong. it is very much a possibility.
    The scientific method works through falsifisation; through assuming what one believes to be false. If mistakes are made they will be found (eventually), corrected and improved as history will confirm they have.

    It's possible that the same mistake can be done over and over again, but it's highly unlikely that the mistake won't be found eventually.
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    The scientific method works through falsifisation; through assuming what one believes to be false. If mistakes are made they will be found (eventually), corrected and improved as history will confirm they have.
    i wish people would stop telling me things i already know. oh an di noticed the word 'eventually' proving my point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    i wish people would stop telling me things i already know. oh an di noticed the word 'eventually' proving my point.
    What was your point then? That humans do mistakes sometimes? Tell me something we don't know!

    All I'm saying is that I'm partly in agreement with you. One can't exacly say it's impossible for a mistake to be made over and over again, but it is highly unlikely that it will continue to be made due to the nature of the scientific method. If something isn't consistent then there's obviously a problem, which is why mistakes are usually corrected quite fast.
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    i saw it but wasn't sure. in the midst ofall the abuse i get, one needs to make sure.
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