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Thread: Should God be judged?

  1. #1 Should God be judged? 
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    Should God be judged?

    Many have told me to judge not lest ye be judged.

    I find this to be a rather stupid saying because I judge all things in order to know what should be believed or followed and what should be discarded.

    To not do so would mean that I just accept all that is said and this of course would foul up any chance of knowing what is true or false. After all there is much in the way of contradictory information out there.

    Have you judged what your God has said and done, as best as you can prove or believe?

    If not, then how can you know that you follow the right God?

    Is, judge not lest you be judged, a stupid saying or does it have merit and why?

    Regards
    DL


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  3. #2 God decrees vicarious redemption of Jesus wrong? 
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    God decrees vicarious redemption of Jesus wrong?

    It is said that Jesus died to redeem man.

    Yet on the cross, our hero Jesus when speaking to God the father asked, why have you forsaken me?

    This indicates to me that the sacrifice that Jesus was attempting to do was rejected by God who decided that all men are responsible for their own sins and that to use Jesus as a scapegoat would be wrong.

    Is it moral then for man to hide behind a scapegoat?
    Is it wrong, as God indicates, for someone other than the perpetrator of sin, to take the blame or punishment for the actions of others?

    Does a God need a sacrificial lamb in order to forgive us as individuals?

    This question I pose to believers and none believers alike.

    Are you responsible for your actions or is it right to use a scapegoat?

    Regards
    DL


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  4. #3 Is your God a winner or a loser? 
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    Is your God a winner or a loser?

    The way I read scripture is that God and his universe begins in a perfect state and then God began to create or evolve his universe to what He hoped to be a continuation of that perfection.

    He created Angels first and somehow, heavens perfection was marred by a rebellious Satan. Sin was born.

    He created man next and behold, more imperfection added to His initial perfect state. Man the sinner.

    He then allows sons of God to use earth and itís women and their offspring become the cause for God having to send a genocidal flood to kill all but 8 chosen, good people.

    Imperfection again rears itís ugly head in the following generations and now believers await God to return again to, shall we say, return the universe to a perfect state.

    I count that as three failed attempts. A rather dismal showing.

    This points to a God who just canít get things right. A loser in other words.

    To those who believe in this miracle working super God I ask.

    Why are you following a loser who fails time after time?

    Regards
    DL
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  5. #4 Re: Should God be judged? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Should God be judged?

    Many have told me to judge not lest ye be judged.

    I find this to be a rather stupid saying because I judge all things in order to know what should be believed or followed and what should be discarded.
    I guess if you sit on your ass and get mental over something long enough, anything can sound nutty.

    Like for instance why is zero a plural?

    We say 1 dog, 2 dogs, 0 dogs
    or 1 houses, 4 houses, 0 houses

    It just doesn't make sense.




    Have you judged what your God has said and done, as best as you can prove or believe?

    If not, then how can you know that you follow the right God?

    Is, judge not lest you be judged, a stupid saying or does it have merit and why?

    Regards
    DL
    Generally the statement is not understood to mean "abandon all discrimination" but rather something more along the lines of recognizing where one's values lie and not to be overly involved/attached to them.
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  6. #5 Re: Should God be judged? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Should God be judged?

    Many have told me to judge not lest ye be judged.

    I find this to be a rather stupid saying because I judge all things in order to know what should be believed or followed and what should be discarded.
    I guess if you sit on your ass and get mental over something long enough, anything can sound nutty.

    Like for instance why is zero a plural?

    We say 1 dog, 2 dogs, 0 dogs
    or 1 houses, 4 houses, 0 houses

    It just doesn't make sense.




    Have you judged what your God has said and done, as best as you can prove or believe?

    If not, then how can you know that you follow the right God?

    Is, judge not lest you be judged, a stupid saying or does it have merit and why?

    Regards
    DL
    Generally the statement is not understood to mean "abandon all discrimination" but rather something more along the lines of recognizing where one's values lie and not to be overly involved/attached to them.
    Perhaps.

    Regards
    DL
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  7. #6 Re: Should God be judged? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Should God be judged?

    Many have told me to judge not lest ye be judged.

    I find this to be a rather stupid saying because I judge all things in order to know what should be believed or followed and what should be discarded.
    I guess if you sit on your ass and get mental over something long enough, anything can sound nutty.

    Like for instance why is zero a plural?

    We say 1 dog, 2 dogs, 0 dogs
    or 1 houses, 4 houses, 0 houses

    It just doesn't make sense.
    Zero Dog would imply that a certain dog is not present, whilst other may be. Saying dogs changes the meaning to say that no dog at all is present, rather than only one being missing.


    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Have you judged what your God has said and done, as best as you can prove or believe?

    If not, then how can you know that you follow the right God?

    Is, judge not lest you be judged, a stupid saying or does it have merit and why?

    Regards
    DL
    Generally the statement is not understood to mean "abandon all discrimination" but rather something more along the lines of recognizing where one's values lie and not to be overly involved/attached to them.
    'Judge not lest you be judged'.

    'Oh, and kill anyone that disagrees with you'

    Hmmmmmm......
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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  8. #7 Re: Should God be judged? 
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    [quote="drowsy turtle"]
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Should God be judged?

    Many have told me to judge not lest ye be judged.

    I find this to be a rather stupid saying because I judge all things in order to know what should be believed or followed and what should be discarded.
    I guess if you sit on your ass and get mental over something long enough, anything can sound nutty.

    Like for instance why is zero a plural?

    We say 1 dog, 2 dogs, 0 dogs
    or 1 houses, 4 houses, 0 houses

    It just doesn't make sense.
    Zero Dog would imply that a certain dog is not present, whilst other may be. Saying dogs changes the meaning to say that no dog at all is present, rather than only one being missing.[\quote]

    maybe you just aren't sitting on your ass long enough for this one

    we say

    "there are 5 houses there"
    "there is 1 house there"
    "there are 0 houses there"

    we don't say
    "there is 0 house there"




    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Have you judged what your God has said and done, as best as you can prove or believe?

    If not, then how can you know that you follow the right God?

    Is, judge not lest you be judged, a stupid saying or does it have merit and why?

    Regards
    DL
    Generally the statement is not understood to mean "abandon all discrimination" but rather something more along the lines of recognizing where one's values lie and not to be overly involved/attached to them.
    'Judge not lest you be judged'.

    'Oh, and kill anyone that disagrees with you'

    Hmmmmmm......
    the adage "an idle mind is the devil's workshop" probably arose from an analysis of those who spend too long sitting on their asses
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  9. #8  
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    I think that judgment gets in the way of observation, curiosity and creativity.
    Dick, be Frank.

    Ambiguity Kills.
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  10. #9 Re: Should God be judged? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Should God be judged?

    Many have told me to judge not lest ye be judged.

    I find this to be a rather stupid saying because I judge all things in order to know what should be believed or followed and what should be discarded.

    To not do so would mean that I just accept all that is said and this of course would foul up any chance of knowing what is true or false. After all there is much in the way of contradictory information out there.

    Have you judged what your God has said and done, as best as you can prove or believe?

    If not, then how can you know that you follow the right God?

    Is, judge not lest you be judged, a stupid saying or does it have merit and why?

    Regards
    DL
    Traditionally-speaking, only the unclean can be judged. The one's who are imperfect are set to be judged, therego.

    Spiritually-speaking, from a strictly Christian point of view where God was on Earth in the flesh of a man (Jesus), Jesus was constantly judged by his fellow priests, so in this sense, God was judged by men many times.
    Only the mind can think twice simultaneously about a subject, but only one thing can inexorably come out of it. A choice.
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  11. #10  
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    what right have you to judge God? who are you to think you are able to do that? You are not perfect thus what standard would you use? certainly not your own as that is no greater than another persons.
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  12. #11  
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    I think it is a symbol of how everything is connected. I am you and you are me. If I was to judge you I would actually be judging a part of me.

    Judging god is like judging the cat as "furry" and thinking that is all the cat is. But that is not true, a cat is much more than fur. God is much more than anything we can possibly attribute to Him. Quite simply though, you can judge, but it doesn't make your judgment sound. To judge things you cannot understand will only hurt your ability to judge things you can.
    Dick, be Frank.

    Ambiguity Kills.
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  13. #12  
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    How to judge God when we don't even know where and what He is?
    ~ Oneís ultimate perfection depends on the development of all the members of society ~ Kabbalah
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcusclayman
    I think that judgment gets in the way of observation, curiosity and creativity.
    That sounds like a judgment call to me.

    Regards
    DL
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  15. #14 Re: Should God be judged? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manynames
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Should God be judged?

    Many have told me to judge not lest ye be judged.

    I find this to be a rather stupid saying because I judge all things in order to know what should be believed or followed and what should be discarded.

    To not do so would mean that I just accept all that is said and this of course would foul up any chance of knowing what is true or false. After all there is much in the way of contradictory information out there.

    Have you judged what your God has said and done, as best as you can prove or believe?

    If not, then how can you know that you follow the right God?

    Is, judge not lest you be judged, a stupid saying or does it have merit and why?

    Regards
    DL
    Traditionally-speaking, only the unclean can be judged. The one's who are imperfect are set to be judged, therego.
    Who judged the others to be clean?

    Spiritually-speaking, from a strictly Christian point of view where God was on Earth in the flesh of a man (Jesus), Jesus was constantly judged by his fellow priests, so in this sense, God was judged by men many times.
    If the Jesus/God of Noah's flood is the one you are speaking of then i too would have voted to kill a traitor to humanity for killing millions including children and babies.

    If this the one you follow the genocidal God?

    Regards
    DL
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    what right have you to judge God? who are you to think you are able to do that? You are not perfect thus what standard would you use? certainly not your own as that is no greater than another persons.
    Deuteronomy 32:4
    He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.

    Are you saying that you do not believe this scripture?

    Who else but man can judge God?
    Do you not judge him to be good or evil?

    Regards
    DL
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcusclayman
    I think it is a symbol of how everything is connected. I am you and you are me. If I was to judge you I would actually be judging a part of me.

    Judging god is like judging the cat as "furry" and thinking that is all the cat is. But that is not true, a cat is much more than fur. God is much more than anything we can possibly attribute to Him. Quite simply though, you can judge, but it doesn't make your judgment sound. To judge things you cannot understand will only hurt your ability to judge things you can.
    Do you follow someone you do not understand?

    Regards
    DL
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by newnothing
    How to judge God when we don't even know where and what He is?
    You can judge the God that is shown in scripture regardless of whether you believe in him or not.

    Does that picture indicate a good God or an evil God?

    Regards
    DL
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  19. #18  
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    I think you have this misconception about the relationship between God and Good. God means Good in the Hebrew language. I don't know about the Aramaic language though, but this might help clear that up.

    God doesn't do things because they are good. Things are good because God does them.

    God is beyond such polarity though. Even though God does good things, He is not Good. To judge God as Good or as Bad is equally false.

    Because there is a story about God destroying a city does not mean it is Good to destroy cities. It means that it was good to destroy that city at that moment in time.

    And yes, I do judge apparently. I would never claim I don't, but I would never claim to be God either, but then again, does god go around saying "Hey, I'm god" the closest we've gotten is him saying "I am what I am" whatever that is.

    But this saying "I am what I am" spells it out pretty nicely. If you ask God if He was Good, the answer might be something along these lines.
    Dick, be Frank.

    Ambiguity Kills.
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    what right have you to judge God? who are you to think you are able to do that? You are not perfect thus what standard would you use? certainly not your own as that is no greater than another persons.
    Deuteronomy 32:4
    He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.

    Are you saying that you do not believe this scripture?

    Who else but man can judge God?
    Do you not judge him to be good or evil?

    Regards
    DL
    That scripture has nothing to do with judging. Once you judge something you are setting yourself and your standard as superior to any other, you cannot do that with God.

    Yes you can believe it but it does not grant permission to judge God. You are to humble yourself to God not the other way around. There is NO possible way that you have the right to judge God. Judging Him to be evil would be a sin and calling God a liar about Himself, that is dangerous ground and you are saying your sinful life is higher than God's perfect existence and that would be doing what the devil did in the beginning.
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  21. #20 Re: Should God be judged? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by Manynames
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Should God be judged?

    Many have told me to judge not lest ye be judged.

    I find this to be a rather stupid saying because I judge all things in order to know what should be believed or followed and what should be discarded.

    To not do so would mean that I just accept all that is said and this of course would foul up any chance of knowing what is true or false. After all there is much in the way of contradictory information out there.

    Have you judged what your God has said and done, as best as you can prove or believe?

    If not, then how can you know that you follow the right God?

    Is, judge not lest you be judged, a stupid saying or does it have merit and why?

    Regards
    DL
    Traditionally-speaking, only the unclean can be judged. The one's who are imperfect are set to be judged, therego.
    Who judged the others to be clean?

    Spiritually-speaking, from a strictly Christian point of view where God was on Earth in the flesh of a man (Jesus), Jesus was constantly judged by his fellow priests, so in this sense, God was judged by men many times.
    If the Jesus/God of Noah's flood is the one you are speaking of then i too would have voted to kill a traitor to humanity for killing millions including children and babies.

    If this the one you follow the genocidal God?

    Regards
    DL
    Going back to a traditional sense, we have conditioned ourselves to believe that God does things with knowing also the complexities of what any future event may take place.

    Even God is prone to mistake or regretting action, for

    ''God was most upset''

    some translations say that ''God wept,'' to the loss of mankind itself. If God was so surprised, he cannot know everything. God was still learning at this point Himself.
    Only the mind can think twice simultaneously about a subject, but only one thing can inexorably come out of it. A choice.
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  22. #21  
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    Even God is prone to mistake
    God was still learning at this point Himself.
    are you saying God is human? this is completely wrong and contradicts scripture and demonstrates a lack of understanding of scripture.

    basically what you said was heretical.
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    That scripture has nothing to do with judging. Once you judge something you are setting yourself and your standard as superior to any other, you cannot do that with God.

    Yes you can believe it but it does not grant permission to judge God. You are to humble yourself to God not the other way around. There is NO possible way that you have the right to judge God. Judging Him to be evil would be a sin and calling God a liar about Himself, that is dangerous ground and you are saying your sinful life is higher than God's perfect existence and that would be doing what the devil did in the beginning.
    If God is guilty of sin by his own standards, is he then not a sinner? Well, then he must be a hypocrite.

    Logical analysis is fun.

    It's funny how much some theists seem to know about God when they've already defined him beyond understanding. The very fact that we've created such a concept would be enough to invalidate it, wouldn't it?

    How can one know for certain that any religion is the correct one when nobody can truly know God (except through personal incredulity of course. But why trust yourself to be right?).

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    are you saying God is human? this is completely wrong and contradicts scripture and demonstrates a lack of understanding of scripture.

    basically what you said was heretical.
    So you're saying the bible is heretical?
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  24. #23 Re: Should God be judged? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manynames
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by Manynames
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Should God be judged?

    Many have told me to judge not lest ye be judged.

    I find this to be a rather stupid saying because I judge all things in order to know what should be believed or followed and what should be discarded.

    To not do so would mean that I just accept all that is said and this of course would foul up any chance of knowing what is true or false. After all there is much in the way of contradictory information out there.

    Have you judged what your God has said and done, as best as you can prove or believe?

    If not, then how can you know that you follow the right God?

    Is, judge not lest you be judged, a stupid saying or does it have merit and why?

    Regards
    DL
    Traditionally-speaking, only the unclean can be judged. The one's who are imperfect are set to be judged, therego.
    Who judged the others to be clean?

    Spiritually-speaking, from a strictly Christian point of view where God was on Earth in the flesh of a man (Jesus), Jesus was constantly judged by his fellow priests, so in this sense, God was judged by men many times.
    If the Jesus/God of Noah's flood is the one you are speaking of then i too would have voted to kill a traitor to humanity for killing millions including children and babies.

    If this the one you follow the genocidal God?

    Regards
    DL
    Going back to a traditional sense, we have conditioned ourselves to believe that God does things with knowing also the complexities of what any future event may take place.

    Even God is prone to mistake or regretting action, for

    ''God was most upset''

    some translations say that ''God wept,'' to the loss of mankind itself. If God was so surprised, he cannot know everything. God was still learning at this point Himself.
    if one is sad, how is one surpised?, makes no sense.
    verzin says: Christians believe in a god that murders kills people.......
    zeb replies:
    I see this argument as a typical pre-concept of people, which never showed a real interest to understand the bible, and the reason of certain things, why they happened. If i explain you, what Gods intent was, and the reason, these things happened, you will certainly come with the next argument, and then the next. And the final will be, no outcome, or change of opinion. I am quit sure, you have made up your mind already, don't you ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcusclayman
    I think you have this misconception about the relationship between God and Good. God means Good in the Hebrew language. I don't know about the Aramaic language though, but this might help clear that up.

    God doesn't do things because they are good. Things are good because God does them.

    God is beyond such polarity though. Even though God does good things, He is not Good. To judge God as Good or as Bad is equally false.

    Because there is a story about God destroying a city does not mean it is Good to destroy cities. It means that it was good to destroy that city at that moment in time.

    And yes, I do judge apparently. I would never claim I don't, but I would never claim to be God either, but then again, does god go around saying "Hey, I'm god" the closest we've gotten is him saying "I am what I am" whatever that is.

    But this saying "I am what I am" spells it out pretty nicely. If you ask God if He was Good, the answer might be something along these lines.
    I am good. So is my God.

    The one in scripture is definitely not good. I agree with you there. Fact is he is evil.

    Regards
    DL
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    what right have you to judge God? who are you to think you are able to do that? You are not perfect thus what standard would you use? certainly not your own as that is no greater than another persons.
    Deuteronomy 32:4
    He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.

    Are you saying that you do not believe this scripture?

    Who else but man can judge God?
    Do you not judge him to be good or evil?

    Regards
    DL
    That scripture has nothing to do with judging. Once you judge something you are setting yourself and your standard as superior to any other, you cannot do that with God.

    Yes you can believe it but it does not grant permission to judge God. You are to humble yourself to God not the other way around. There is NO possible way that you have the right to judge God. Judging Him to be evil would be a sin and calling God a liar about Himself, that is dangerous ground and you are saying your sinful life is higher than God's perfect existence and that would be doing what the devil did in the beginning.
    Believers say that God's perfect existence ended some time ago. That is why they now wait for him to return to fix what is not supposed to be breakable.

    I have every right to judge God. If He has any complaints then let him make them.

    You go ahead and humble yourself to your slave master. My God believes that man is to stand proud as the greatest creature on earth.

    Grow up and realize that you are judging that I have no right to judge and that you judge wrongly.

    Regards
    DL
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  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by marcusclayman
    I think you have this misconception about the relationship between God and Good. God means Good in the Hebrew language. I don't know about the Aramaic language though, but this might help clear that up.

    God doesn't do things because they are good. Things are good because God does them.

    God is beyond such polarity though. Even though God does good things, He is not Good. To judge God as Good or as Bad is equally false.

    Because there is a story about God destroying a city does not mean it is Good to destroy cities. It means that it was good to destroy that city at that moment in time.

    And yes, I do judge apparently. I would never claim I don't, but I would never claim to be God either, but then again, does god go around saying "Hey, I'm god" the closest we've gotten is him saying "I am what I am" whatever that is.

    But this saying "I am what I am" spells it out pretty nicely. If you ask God if He was Good, the answer might be something along these lines.
    I am good. So is my God.

    The one in scripture is definitely not good. I agree with you there. Fact is he is evil.

    Regards
    DL

    christians worship the evil lord , muhahahaha . -.- FOOL
    verzin says: Christians believe in a god that murders kills people.......
    zeb replies:
    I see this argument as a typical pre-concept of people, which never showed a real interest to understand the bible, and the reason of certain things, why they happened. If i explain you, what Gods intent was, and the reason, these things happened, you will certainly come with the next argument, and then the next. And the final will be, no outcome, or change of opinion. I am quit sure, you have made up your mind already, don't you ?
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  28. #27 Re: Should God be judged? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manynames
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by Manynames
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Should God be judged?

    Many have told me to judge not lest ye be judged.

    I find this to be a rather stupid saying because I judge all things in order to know what should be believed or followed and what should be discarded.

    To not do so would mean that I just accept all that is said and this of course would foul up any chance of knowing what is true or false. After all there is much in the way of contradictory information out there.

    Have you judged what your God has said and done, as best as you can prove or believe?

    If not, then how can you know that you follow the right God?

    Is, judge not lest you be judged, a stupid saying or does it have merit and why?

    Regards
    DL
    Traditionally-speaking, only the unclean can be judged. The one's who are imperfect are set to be judged, therego.
    Who judged the others to be clean?

    Spiritually-speaking, from a strictly Christian point of view where God was on Earth in the flesh of a man (Jesus), Jesus was constantly judged by his fellow priests, so in this sense, God was judged by men many times.
    If the Jesus/God of Noah's flood is the one you are speaking of then i too would have voted to kill a traitor to humanity for killing millions including children and babies.

    If this the one you follow the genocidal God?

    Regards
    DL
    Going back to a traditional sense, we have conditioned ourselves to believe that God does things with knowing also the complexities of what any future event may take place.

    Even God is prone to mistake or regretting action, for

    ''God was most upset''

    some translations say that ''God wept,'' to the loss of mankind itself. If God was so surprised, he cannot know everything. God was still learning at this point Himself.
    So was Hitler.

    You do not see Jews forgiving and following him.
    Why then do you forgive and follow an EX genocidal maniac.
    Are you that sure that he will not make another error in judgment?
    Baby God might only be a teen now.

    Regards
    DL
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  29. #28 Re: Should God be judged? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by Manynames
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by Manynames
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Should God be judged?

    Many have told me to judge not lest ye be judged.

    I find this to be a rather stupid saying because I judge all things in order to know what should be believed or followed and what should be discarded.

    To not do so would mean that I just accept all that is said and this of course would foul up any chance of knowing what is true or false. After all there is much in the way of contradictory information out there.

    Have you judged what your God has said and done, as best as you can prove or believe?

    If not, then how can you know that you follow the right God?

    Is, judge not lest you be judged, a stupid saying or does it have merit and why?

    Regards
    DL
    Traditionally-speaking, only the unclean can be judged. The one's who are imperfect are set to be judged, therego.
    Who judged the others to be clean?

    Spiritually-speaking, from a strictly Christian point of view where God was on Earth in the flesh of a man (Jesus), Jesus was constantly judged by his fellow priests, so in this sense, God was judged by men many times.
    If the Jesus/God of Noah's flood is the one you are speaking of then i too would have voted to kill a traitor to humanity for killing millions including children and babies.

    If this the one you follow the genocidal God?

    Regards
    DL
    Going back to a traditional sense, we have conditioned ourselves to believe that God does things with knowing also the complexities of what any future event may take place.

    Even God is prone to mistake or regretting action, for

    ''God was most upset''

    some translations say that ''God wept,'' to the loss of mankind itself. If God was so surprised, he cannot know everything. God was still learning at this point Himself.
    So was Hitler.

    You do not see Jews forgiving and following him.
    Why then do you forgive and follow an EX genocidal maniac.
    Are you that sure that he will not make another error in judgment?
    Baby God might only be a teen now.

    Regards
    DL
    THERE IS NO GREAT SIN
    verzin says: Christians believe in a god that murders kills people.......
    zeb replies:
    I see this argument as a typical pre-concept of people, which never showed a real interest to understand the bible, and the reason of certain things, why they happened. If i explain you, what Gods intent was, and the reason, these things happened, you will certainly come with the next argument, and then the next. And the final will be, no outcome, or change of opinion. I am quit sure, you have made up your mind already, don't you ?
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  30. #29 Re: Should God be judged? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    Quote Originally Posted by Manynames
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by Manynames
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Should God be judged?

    Many have told me to judge not lest ye be judged.

    I find this to be a rather stupid saying because I judge all things in order to know what should be believed or followed and what should be discarded.

    To not do so would mean that I just accept all that is said and this of course would foul up any chance of knowing what is true or false. After all there is much in the way of contradictory information out there.

    Have you judged what your God has said and done, as best as you can prove or believe?

    If not, then how can you know that you follow the right God?

    Is, judge not lest you be judged, a stupid saying or does it have merit and why?

    Regards
    DL
    Traditionally-speaking, only the unclean can be judged. The one's who are imperfect are set to be judged, therego.
    Who judged the others to be clean?

    Spiritually-speaking, from a strictly Christian point of view where God was on Earth in the flesh of a man (Jesus), Jesus was constantly judged by his fellow priests, so in this sense, God was judged by men many times.
    If the Jesus/God of Noah's flood is the one you are speaking of then i too would have voted to kill a traitor to humanity for killing millions including children and babies.

    If this the one you follow the genocidal God?

    Regards
    DL
    Going back to a traditional sense, we have conditioned ourselves to believe that God does things with knowing also the complexities of what any future event may take place.

    Even God is prone to mistake or regretting action, for

    ''God was most upset''

    some translations say that ''God wept,'' to the loss of mankind itself. If God was so surprised, he cannot know everything. God was still learning at this point Himself.
    if one is sad, how is one surpised?, makes no sense.
    Ever wrote a story and cried to it? Absolutely not.

    I certainly havent.... but this is God. He writes the scripts according to current believe. He is the Narrator and yet.... he still gets upset and frustrated by failure? It sounds contradictory to me.
    Only the mind can think twice simultaneously about a subject, but only one thing can inexorably come out of it. A choice.
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    i am notgoingto spendmuchtime here as itis clear n the attitude of most posters.

    suffice it to say, you cannot judge God. God does not humble Himself to you, you humble yourselves to Him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    i am notgoingto spendmuchtime here as itis clear n the attitude of most posters.

    suffice it to say, you cannot judge God. God does not humble Himself to you, you humble yourselves to Him.
    Yeah? Why should I?
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    i am notgoingto spendmuchtime here as itis clear n the attitude of most posters.

    suffice it to say, you cannot judge God. God does not humble Himself to you, you humble yourselves to Him.
    Yeah? Why should I?
    Its not so much why you should but when you will.

    You have the choice of either being humbled by god or being humbled by god's potency, in the form of death, old age etc
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Its not so much why you should but when you will.

    You have the choice of either being humbled by god or being humbled by god's potency, in the form of death, old age etc
    Or eternal torment in hellfire if you believe in that. Why does/must God turn to blackmailing? It just seems so petty and human.
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    Why does/must God turn to blackmailing? It just seems so petty and human.
    it isn't blackmail. it is a choice of destinations and God is not holding a gun to your head or loved ones to force you to go to heaven. He wants you to but He is allowing you to make the choice.
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  36. #35 Re: Should God be judged? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manynames
    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    Quote Originally Posted by Manynames
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by Manynames
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Should God be judged?

    Many have told me to judge not lest ye be judged.

    I find this to be a rather stupid saying because I judge all things in order to know what should be believed or followed and what should be discarded.

    To not do so would mean that I just accept all that is said and this of course would foul up any chance of knowing what is true or false. After all there is much in the way of contradictory information out there.

    Have you judged what your God has said and done, as best as you can prove or believe?

    If not, then how can you know that you follow the right God?

    Is, judge not lest you be judged, a stupid saying or does it have merit and why?

    Regards
    DL
    Traditionally-speaking, only the unclean can be judged. The one's who are imperfect are set to be judged, therego.
    Who judged the others to be clean?

    Spiritually-speaking, from a strictly Christian point of view where God was on Earth in the flesh of a man (Jesus), Jesus was constantly judged by his fellow priests, so in this sense, God was judged by men many times.
    If the Jesus/God of Noah's flood is the one you are speaking of then i too would have voted to kill a traitor to humanity for killing millions including children and babies.

    If this the one you follow the genocidal God?

    Regards
    DL
    Going back to a traditional sense, we have conditioned ourselves to believe that God does things with knowing also the complexities of what any future event may take place.

    Even God is prone to mistake or regretting action, for

    ''God was most upset''

    some translations say that ''God wept,'' to the loss of mankind itself. If God was so surprised, he cannot know everything. God was still learning at this point Himself.
    if one is sad, how is one surpised?, makes no sense.
    Ever wrote a story and cried to it? Absolutely not.

    I certainly havent.... but this is God. He writes the scripts according to current believe. He is the Narrator and yet.... he still gets upset and frustrated by failure? It sounds contradictory to me.
    so you telling me nobody has ever written a sad romantic story ever? how about titanic that was a sad romantic story, as many other stories.
    verzin says: Christians believe in a god that murders kills people.......
    zeb replies:
    I see this argument as a typical pre-concept of people, which never showed a real interest to understand the bible, and the reason of certain things, why they happened. If i explain you, what Gods intent was, and the reason, these things happened, you will certainly come with the next argument, and then the next. And the final will be, no outcome, or change of opinion. I am quit sure, you have made up your mind already, don't you ?
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  37. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    Once you judge something you are setting yourself and your standard as superior to any other, you cannot do that with God..
    Nonsense. You are judging to and by a standard. That neither explicitly or implicitly requires or suggests that the standard is superior to any other.

    Further, according to Biblical scripture man was made in God's image. Logically therefore man is capable of judging and indeed is expected to judge. Why would God wish himself to be exempt from this process?
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  38. #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    Once you judge something you are setting yourself and your standard as superior to any other, you cannot do that with God..
    Nonsense. You are judging to and by a standard. That neither explicitly or implicitly requires or suggests that the standard is superior to any other.

    Further, according to Biblical scripture man was made in God's image. Logically therefore man is capable of judging and indeed is expected to judge. Why would God wish himself to be exempt from this process?
    are you inferring that man is greater than god, therefore why should god judge us?
    verzin says: Christians believe in a god that murders kills people.......
    zeb replies:
    I see this argument as a typical pre-concept of people, which never showed a real interest to understand the bible, and the reason of certain things, why they happened. If i explain you, what Gods intent was, and the reason, these things happened, you will certainly come with the next argument, and then the next. And the final will be, no outcome, or change of opinion. I am quit sure, you have made up your mind already, don't you ?
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  39. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    are you inferring that man is greater than god, therefore why should god judge us?
    I am neither inferring or implying this. God is perfectly free to judge us. We are free to judge him. You are familiar, no doubt, with the concept of peer review. If we are made in his image it seems inevitable that we are also God.
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    I guess you can judge God if you so choose but I really fail to see what one would expect to happen by doing so. I can judge gravity all I want but it will have no affect on how gravity effects me. So instead of trying to judge "nature" be a good scientist and attempt to understand it.
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  41. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjacob
    I guess you can judge God if you so choose but I really fail to see what one would expect to happen by doing so.
    Did I say I expected anything to happen? I don't think so.
    All I remarked was that, as images of God, it is reasonable we should act as she does. Apparently she does quite a bit of judging, so why shouldn't we? She judges us, so why shouldn't we judge her?
    I have no idea what effect that would have. Amuse her? Annoy her? Create a huge wave of indifference?
    Since I lean to agnosticism that is a difficult one for me to answer.
    So instead of trying to judge "nature" be a good scientist and attempt to understand it.
    What does that have to do with religion? I thought this was the religion forum?
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    Quote Originally Posted by kingjacob
    I guess you can judge God if you so choose but I really fail to see what one would expect to happen by doing so.
    Did I say I expected anything to happen? I don't think so.
    All I remarked was that, as images of God, it is reasonable we should act as she does. Apparently she does quite a bit of judging, so why shouldn't we? She judges us, so why shouldn't we judge her?
    I have no idea what effect that would have. Amuse her? Annoy her? Create a huge wave of indifference?
    Since I lean to agnosticism that is a difficult one for me to answer.
    So instead of trying to judge "nature" be a good scientist and attempt to understand it.
    What does that have to do with religion? I thought this was the religion forum?
    First off, you use a gender pronoun to describe God so may I ask why you feel God is a certain gender? I ask because sex differentiation is only meaning full if there is procreation or more than one.

    Also, I have to ask how you know that God judges you?

    Yes this is the religion forum but religion is just an organized spiritual approach to the same end as science or philosophy, Truth.

    The answer to your question really depends on your definition of God.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjacob
    First off, you use a gender pronoun to describe God so may I ask why you feel God is a certain gender?
    I don't. In a previous post in this thread I described her as him. You didn't notice that because the default position in a patriarchal religion is to assume the deity is male (and has a long white beard). I like to give equal time to male and female. So for the next post or to God is female.
    (I think it seems rude to call her it, don't you think?)
    Quote Originally Posted by kingjacob
    I ask because sex differentiation is only meaning full if there is procreation or more than one.
    I think you will find that sexual dimorphism, at least in humans, has to do with a lot more than reproduction. For a popular take on this read Women are from Venus, Men are from Mars.
    Quote Originally Posted by kingjacob
    The answer to your question really depends on your definition of God.
    I think I already explained I am agnostic so I don't have a definition of God.
    Quote Originally Posted by kingjacob
    Also, I have to ask how you know that God judges you?
    I don't, but people like archaeologist are always telling me he judges me, so it might be true. (I'm pretty sure archaeologist thinks she is a he.)
    Quote Originally Posted by kingjacob
    Yes this is the religion forum but religion is just an organized spiritual approach to the same end as science or philosophy, Truth.
    That's like saying a hamburger is the same as a seven course meal in a Michelin star restaurant.
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  44. #43  
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    it isn't blackmail. it is a choice of destinations and God is not holding a gun to your head or loved ones to force you to go to heaven. He wants you to but He is allowing you to make the choice.
    He's not forcing me and my loved ones to go to heaven. He's supposedly threatening me and my loved one's with eternal hellfire if we don't believe in him, even if there's not a shred of evidence that he might exist. Of course the arrogance here is in assuming these are truly his intentions. Nobody can -by definition- know God nor his intentions. Only God knows his/her/its intentions and would thusly need to appear for himself and explain them to us.

    Though if his intention is truly to intimedate us into believing in him then he's a petty and sadistical being. He is omniscient after all. Why doom us to Hell for something as trivial as a lack of faith in him because there is no evidence, even if it means he's judging good people to suffer for eternity?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjacob
    I guess you can judge God if you so choose but I really fail to see what one would expect to happen by doing so.
    Well, you could decide if the god was worth worshiping or not. For example, if Mohatep the fire god appeared before you tomorrow and told you to worship him, and you know that Mohtep had a history of telling his followers to burn down villages, you might decide that Mohtep isn't worth worshiping.
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  46. #45 Re: Should God be judged? 
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    [quote="Gods servant"][quote=Greatest I am][quote=Manynames]
    Quote Originally Posted by "Greatest I
    DL[/quote

    THERE IS NO GREAT SIN
    Who said there was?

    I like to use sin of high order myself. There are some of those for sure. that is why hell is unjust. No punishment of high order.

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    i am notgoingto spendmuchtime here as itis clear n the attitude of most posters.

    suffice it to say, you cannot judge God. God does not humble Himself to you, you humble yourselves to Him.
    How do you know that your God is good?
    You have judged him so.


    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    i am notgoingto spendmuchtime here as itis clear n the attitude of most posters.

    suffice it to say, you cannot judge God. God does not humble Himself to you, you humble yourselves to Him.
    Yeah? Why should I?
    Its not so much why you should but when you will.

    You have the choice of either being humbled by god or being humbled by god's potency, in the form of death, old age etc
    Penis envy here.

    Don't mess with God's POTENCY.

    Is that like you know, touching it?

    LOL and then more LOL

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    i am notgoingto spendmuchtime here as itis clear n the attitude of most posters.

    suffice it to say, you cannot judge God. God does not humble Himself to you, you humble yourselves to Him.
    Yeah? Why should I?
    Its not so much why you should but when you will.

    You have the choice of either being humbled by god or being humbled by god's potency, in the form of death, old age etc

    I see Penis envy here.

    Don't mess with God's POTENCY.

    Is that like you know, touching it?

    LOL and then more LOL

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    Why does/must God turn to blackmailing? It just seems so petty and human.
    it isn't blackmail. it is a choice of destinations and God is not holding a gun to your head or loved ones to force you to go to heaven. He wants you to but He is allowing you to make the choice.
    Gun to head or blowtorch to brain. Hm, let me see what do I want more? Hm.

    The sheeple want the blowtorch so I chose the Gun to head.

    Regards
    DL
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  51. #50 Re: Should God be judged? 
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    [quote="Gods servant"][quote="Manynames"][quote="Gods servant"][quote=Manynames]
    Quote Originally Posted by "G

    so you telling me nobody has ever written a sad romantic story ever? how about titanic that was a sad romantic story, as many other stories.
    Titanic sank and left the world.

    With your Go, the world sank and left 8.

    That is not sad.

    That is criminal and sin of high order genocide.

    Any that follow such a god is a traitor to humanity and a fool.

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    Once you judge something you are setting yourself and your standard as superior to any other, you cannot do that with God..
    Nonsense. You are judging to and by a standard. That neither explicitly or implicitly requires or suggests that the standard is superior to any other.

    Further, according to Biblical scripture man was made in God's image. Logically therefore man is capable of judging and indeed is expected to judge. Why would God wish himself to be exempt from this process?
    Because he gave up the right to punish when he gave man Dominion.

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjacob
    I guess you can judge God if you so choose but I really fail to see what one would expect to happen by doing so. I can judge gravity all I want but it will have no affect on how gravity effects me. So instead of trying to judge "nature" be a good scientist and attempt to understand it.
    Absolutely and that takes judgment.

    You cannot judge gravity, but you know how close you want to get before trying to break any of it's rules. No walking on water now or trying to live in a fish for three days. No walking off a cliff to try ascension.

    Man cannot help but judge. God built it in. It is called moral sence.

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scifor Refugee
    Quote Originally Posted by kingjacob
    I guess you can judge God if you so choose but I really fail to see what one would expect to happen by doing so.
    Well, you could decide if the god was worth worshiping or not. For example, if Mohatep the fire god appeared before you tomorrow and told you to worship him, and you know that Mohtep had a history of telling his followers to burn down villages, you might decide that Mohtep isn't worth worshiping.
    You do not need to go that far back in time or look for a new Go. If Christian, just change sect. Try Africa. Christians are killing many child witches thanks to Christianity.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...32425961&hl=en

    Regards
    DL
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  55. #54  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Because he gave up the right to punish when he gave man Dominion.
    Let me give you a free English lesson. Judge and punish are not synonyms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Because he gave up the right to punish when he gave man Dominion.
    Let me give you a free English lesson. Judge and punish are not synonyms.
    Sure is when the judge has only two option for all.

    Turn or burn.

    Or turn or drown if the past flood is true. Which it is not.

    God may not care about sinful men but He would not drown all those innocent animals. Now even Satan would think God evil for that. He might even hand over his horns.

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    Judge and punish are not synonyms.
    Sure is when the judge has only two option for all.
    No. I appreciate English is your second or third language, but the two words are not synonymous. Judgement may precede punishment. The existence of punishment implies judegement. However, punishment is not a necessary consequence of judgement.

    Please don't require me to explain this again. It will become tedious and you will look foolish.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Its not so much why you should but when you will.

    You have the choice of either being humbled by god or being humbled by god's potency, in the form of death, old age etc
    Or eternal torment in hellfire if you believe in that. Why does/must God turn to blackmailing? It just seems so petty and human.
    Not all religions subscribe to the notion that hell is eternal, although they do mostly suggest that it is not a nice place.

    Actually having recourse to punishment is a natural consequence of possessing power or potency.

    You could perhaps talk of wrong punishments, but to talk of punishment being intrinsically wrong simply makes you look like a criminal with ambition.
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    i am notgoingto spendmuchtime here as itis clear n the attitude of most posters.

    suffice it to say, you cannot judge God. God does not humble Himself to you, you humble yourselves to Him.
    Yeah? Why should I?
    Its not so much why you should but when you will.

    You have the choice of either being humbled by god or being humbled by god's potency, in the form of death, old age etc
    Also, I have the option not to bother with superstition, witchcraft, magic, mental illness, voodoo, wasting my time, or religion. I'll grow old, yes. Then I'll die, yes. So, best not to waste time that I have then? Religion I would consider a huge waste of time.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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  60. #59  
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Its not so much why you should but when you will.

    You have the choice of either being humbled by god or being humbled by god's potency, in the form of death, old age etc
    Or eternal torment in hellfire if you believe in that. Why does/must God turn to blackmailing? It just seems so petty and human.
    Not all religions subscribe to the notion that hell is eternal, although they do mostly suggest that it is not a nice place.

    Actually having recourse to punishment is a natural consequence of possessing power or potency.

    You could perhaps talk of wrong punishments, but to talk of punishment being intrinsically wrong simply makes you look like a criminal with ambition.
    Or an offended atheist.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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  61. #60 Re: Should God be judged? 
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    [quote="Greatest I am"][quote="Gods servant"][quote="Manynames"][quote=Gods servant]
    Quote Originally Posted by Manynames
    Quote Originally Posted by "G

    so you telling me nobody has ever written a sad romantic story ever? how about titanic that was a sad romantic story, as many other stories.
    Titanic sank and left the world.

    With your Go, the world sank and left 8.

    That is not sad.

    That is criminal and sin of high order genocide.

    Any that follow such a god is a traitor to humanity and a fool.

    Regards
    DL
    Heres an interesting point; Noah was too old. Literally on the same page of the bible, it is written that;

    'No man shall live beyond 126 years'

    'Noah was 900 years old when the floods came'

    In that order.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Not all religions subscribe to the notion that hell is eternal, although they do mostly suggest that it is not a nice place.

    Actually having recourse to punishment is a natural consequence of possessing power or potency.

    You could perhaps talk of wrong punishments, but to talk of punishment being intrinsically wrong simply makes you look like a criminal with ambition.
    Well, I do sometimes expect forum members to deduce a little too much because it seems obvious to me what I'm talking about. But then again, one has to wonder if being ripped apart over and over again is really just and not just sadistic. After all if God is omniscient and send people to Hell, they were basically doomed the day they were born. It makes you wonder what fair is in the eyes of God, but one cannot really know, can one?
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    What would be better: Simply punishing those that break your law or making them understand why what they did was wrong and how the people that were affected got a raw deal? He is God isn't he?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  64. #63 Re: Should God be judged? 
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    [quote="drowsy turtle"][quote="Greatest I am"][quote="Gods servant"][quote=Manynames]
    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    Quote Originally Posted by Manynames
    Quote Originally Posted by "G

    so you telling me nobody has ever written a sad romantic story ever? how about titanic that was a sad romantic story, as many other stories.
    Titanic sank and left the world.

    With your Go, the world sank and left 8.

    That is not sad.

    That is criminal and sin of high order genocide.

    Any that follow such a god is a traitor to humanity and a fool.

    Regards
    DL
    Heres an interesting point; Noah was too old. Literally on the same page of the bible, it is written that;

    'No man shall live beyond 126 years'

    'Noah was 900 years old when the floods came'

    In that order.

    yea, you so right. Not.
    verzin says: Christians believe in a god that murders kills people.......
    zeb replies:
    I see this argument as a typical pre-concept of people, which never showed a real interest to understand the bible, and the reason of certain things, why they happened. If i explain you, what Gods intent was, and the reason, these things happened, you will certainly come with the next argument, and then the next. And the final will be, no outcome, or change of opinion. I am quit sure, you have made up your mind already, don't you ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    Judge and punish are not synonyms.
    Sure is when the judge has only two option for all.
    No. I appreciate English is your second or third language, but the two words are not synonymous. Judgement may precede punishment. The existence of punishment implies judegement. However, punishment is not a necessary consequence of judgement.

    Please don't require me to explain this again. It will become tedious and you will look foolish.
    Idiot.

    The judgment is of ideas that you and I hold.

    The moment the judgment is rendered, you either fell glee or anguish.

    If anguish is not a consequence in and of itself then what is it? If it is not self punishment, what is it? Something to be desired?

    Judgment, the moment it is rendered gives pleasure or pain. If you knew God then you would know this.

    If I may reciprocate. Please don't require me to explain this again. It will become tedious and you will look foolish.


    Regards
    DL
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  66. #65 Re: Should God be judged? 
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    [quote="drowsy turtle"][quote="Greatest I am"][quote="Gods servant"][quote=Manynames]
    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    Quote Originally Posted by Manynames
    Quote Originally Posted by "G

    so you telling me nobody has ever written a sad romantic story ever? how about titanic that was a sad romantic story, as many other stories.
    Titanic sank and left the world.

    With your Go, the world sank and left 8.

    That is not sad.

    That is criminal and sin of high order genocide.

    Any that follow such a god is a traitor to humanity and a fool.

    Regards
    DL
    Heres an interesting point; Noah was too old. Literally on the same page of the bible, it is written that;

    'No man shall live beyond 126 years'

    'Noah was 900 years old when the floods came'

    In that order.
    Some Brit just hit 130. Who cares.

    What is your point?

    If you read the Bible literally then you would believe in talking snakes and ten headed monsters.

    Noted ages do not matter.

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    What would be better: Simply punishing those that break your law or making them understand why what they did was wrong and how the people that were affected got a raw deal? He is God isn't he?
    If God can kill then He can also make a mental adjustment.

    Regards
    DL
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  68. #67 Re: Should God be judged? 
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    [quote="Greatest I am"][quote="drowsy turtle"][quote="Greatest I am"][quote=Gods servant]
    Quote Originally Posted by Manynames
    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    Quote Originally Posted by Manynames
    Quote Originally Posted by "G

    so you telling me nobody has ever written a sad romantic story ever? how about titanic that was a sad romantic story, as many other stories.
    Titanic sank and left the world.

    With your Go, the world sank and left 8.

    That is not sad.

    That is criminal and sin of high order genocide.

    Any that follow such a god is a traitor to humanity and a fool.

    Regards
    DL
    Heres an interesting point; Noah was too old. Literally on the same page of the bible, it is written that;

    'No man shall live beyond 126 years'

    'Noah was 900 years old when the floods came'

    In that order.
    Some Brit just hit 130. Who cares.

    What is your point?

    If you read the Bible literally then you would believe in talking snakes and ten headed monsters.

    Noted ages do not matter.

    Regards
    DL
    That was my point exactly - you can't trust the bible, and because of that, you can't trust the christian faith.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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  69. #68  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    What would be better: Simply punishing those that break your law or making them understand why what they did was wrong and how the people that were affected got a raw deal? He is God isn't he?
    This is why I intend to repent moments before dying; just in case.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    i am notgoingto spendmuchtime here as itis clear n the attitude of most posters.

    suffice it to say, you cannot judge God. God does not humble Himself to you, you humble yourselves to Him.
    Yeah? Why should I?
    Its not so much why you should but when you will.

    You have the choice of either being humbled by god or being humbled by god's potency, in the form of death, old age etc
    Also, I have the option not to bother with superstition, witchcraft, magic, mental illness, voodoo, wasting my time, or religion. I'll grow old, yes. Then I'll die, yes. So, best not to waste time that I have then? Religion I would consider a huge waste of time.
    yes

    that that option comes under the second choice
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Not all religions subscribe to the notion that hell is eternal, although they do mostly suggest that it is not a nice place.

    Actually having recourse to punishment is a natural consequence of possessing power or potency.

    You could perhaps talk of wrong punishments, but to talk of punishment being intrinsically wrong simply makes you look like a criminal with ambition.
    Well, I do sometimes expect forum members to deduce a little too much because it seems obvious to me what I'm talking about. But then again, one has to wonder if being ripped apart over and over again is really just and not just sadistic.
    If they were innocent, yes
    Even if they were guilty, perhaps even still yes
    (BTW such a scenario is a regular daily occurrence in abattoirs the world over)

    But if they were guilty and placed in a virtual reality machine to experience the nature of those crimes .... now that would probably make the grade

    After all if God is omniscient and send people to Hell, they were basically doomed the day they were born. It makes you wonder what fair is in the eyes of God, but one cannot really know, can one?
    actually it makes me wonder why you think people are doomed the day they were born .......
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    What would be better: Simply punishing those that break your law or making them understand why what they did was wrong and how the people that were affected got a raw deal? He is God isn't he?
    If God can kill then He can also make a mental adjustment.

    Regards
    DL
    god isn't the one suffering from such a deficiency however ....
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    What would be better: Simply punishing those that break your law or making them understand why what they did was wrong and how the people that were affected got a raw deal? He is God isn't he?
    If God can kill then He can also make a mental adjustment.

    Regards
    DL
    god isn't the one suffering from such a deficiency however ....
    If it is the God of Noah's flood we are speaking about then he is beyond help. He just deserves death.

    Kill that God ASAP.

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    What would be better: Simply punishing those that break your law or making them understand why what they did was wrong and how the people that were affected got a raw deal? He is God isn't he?
    If God can kill then He can also make a mental adjustment.

    Regards
    DL
    god isn't the one suffering from such a deficiency however ....
    If it is the God of Noah's flood we are speaking about then he is beyond help. He just deserves death.

    Kill that God ASAP.

    Regards
    DL
    assuming you have no pending "mental adjustment" issues .....
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  75. #74  
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    What would be better: Simply punishing those that break your law or making them understand why what they did was wrong and how the people that were affected got a raw deal? He is God isn't he?
    If God can kill then He can also make a mental adjustment.

    Regards
    DL
    god isn't the one suffering from such a deficiency however ....
    If it is the God of Noah's flood we are speaking about then he is beyond help. He just deserves death.

    Kill that God ASAP.

    Regards
    DL
    assuming you have no pending "mental adjustment" issues .....
    My loyalty to my race needs no adjustments.

    It is a good moral position.

    Is yours?

    Regards
    DL
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  76. #75  
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    actually it makes me wonder why you think people are doomed the day they were born .......
    Assuming God is omnipotent, then that must be the case. If people go to Hell for not believing in him as a result of a lack of evidence, then they were basically doomed the day they were born. If God knows what it takes for a person to be converted, but refrains from taking any action that will convert the person knowing clearly what will happen, he's basically dooming them to Hell.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    What would be better: Simply punishing those that break your law or making them understand why what they did was wrong and how the people that were affected got a raw deal? He is God isn't he?
    If God can kill then He can also make a mental adjustment.

    Regards
    DL
    god isn't the one suffering from such a deficiency however ....
    If it is the God of Noah's flood we are speaking about then he is beyond help. He just deserves death.

    Kill that God ASAP.

    Regards
    DL
    assuming you have no pending "mental adjustment" issues .....
    My loyalty to my race needs no adjustments.

    It is a good moral position.

    Is yours?

    Regards
    DL
    if the highest article in one's loyalty is one's species (I think that was the word you were looking for, assuming you aren't a neo-nazi) one's whole life is one of conflicting mental adjustment. For more information, examine cats and mice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    actually it makes me wonder why you think people are doomed the day they were born .......
    Assuming God is omnipotent, then that must be the case. If people go to Hell for not believing in him as a result of a lack of evidence, then they were basically doomed the day they were born.
    aha

    so its not that you deem we are doomed the day they we are born but rather that we are born innocent

    If God knows what it takes for a person to be converted, but refrains from taking any action that will convert the person knowing clearly what will happen, he's basically dooming them to Hell.
    given that a soul is eternal and therefore may experience many births and sojourns to both hell and this world and its greater constituents, what makes you declare that god is not undertaking the most efficient action?
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    punarmusiko

    You have proof that the soul is eternal do you?

    Please show it.

    Regards
    DL
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    [quote=punarmusiko][quote=Greatest I am]
    Quote Originally Posted by "punarmusiko

    Regards
    DL[/quote
    if the highest article in one's loyalty is one's species (I think that was the word you were looking for, assuming you aren't a neo-nazi) one's whole life is one of conflicting mental adjustment. For more information, examine cats and mice.
    Huh.

    Cats do not kill cats with genocide neither do rats.

    What are you talking about?

    Regards
    DL
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    [quote=Greatest I am][quote=punarmusiko]
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by "punarmusiko

    Regards
    DL[/quote
    if the highest article in one's loyalty is one's species (I think that was the word you were looking for, assuming you aren't a neo-nazi) one's whole life is one of conflicting mental adjustment. For more information, examine cats and mice.
    Huh.

    Cats do not kill cats with genocide neither do rats.

    What are you talking about?

    Regards
    DL
    rats certainly experience issues of mental adjustment when they come into contact with cats.
    In other words, as exemplified by animals, identification that doesn't go beyond one's species or clan gives ample accommodation for conflict.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    punarmusiko

    You have proof that the soul is eternal do you?

    Please show it.

    Regards
    DL

    if you have proof that a claim of knowledge can exist independent of meeting certain criteria of qualification, please show it.
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  83. #82  
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    aha

    so its not that you deem we are doomed the day they we are born but rather that we are born innocent
    I don't think you got it. With omnipotence comes omniscience. I guess I should've been more specific.

    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    given that a soul is eternal and therefore may experience many births and sojourns to both hell and this world and its greater constituents, what makes you declare that god is not undertaking the most efficient action?
    Intriguing question. I don't know. If souls are eternal they've definitely multiplied during the last decade. :-D
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    aha

    so its not that you deem we are doomed the day they we are born but rather that we are born innocent
    I don't think you got it. With omnipotence comes omniscience. I guess I should've been more specific.
    I'm not sure how that pertains to the idea of us being born innocent

    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    given that a soul is eternal and therefore may experience many births and sojourns to both hell and this world and its greater constituents, what makes you declare that god is not undertaking the most efficient action?
    Intriguing question. I don't know. If souls are eternal they've definitely multiplied during the last decade. :-D
    I take it another assumption you are working with is that humans on the earth comprise of the complete set of souls ....
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    punarmusiko

    You have proof that the soul is eternal do you?

    Please show it.

    Regards
    DL

    if you have proof that a claim of knowledge can exist independent of meeting certain criteria of qualification, please show it.
    At least you know when you make a foolish statement and try to re-direct.

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    I'm not sure how that pertains to the idea of us being born innocent
    That was never my point. My point was that if God is omniscient and knows what it takes for an atheist, for example, to be converted, but refrains from taking such action, he has basically doomed him/her to Hell the day he/she were born.

    But if you want to talk about original sin, let me know. I have a lot of reasons why such a thing wouldn't make any sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    I take it another assumption you are working with is that humans on the earth comprise of the complete set of souls ....
    Oh, not at all. I just didn't realize we were talking about Hinduism. Anyhow, unless you consider non-living things to be comprised of a soul, I'd still think we'd have the problem of multiplication. That is assuming it is a problem at all of course.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    punarmusiko

    You have proof that the soul is eternal do you?

    Please show it.

    Regards
    DL

    if you have proof that a claim of knowledge can exist independent of meeting certain criteria of qualification, please show it.
    At least you know when you make a foolish statement and try to re-direct.

    Regards
    DL
    whatever I may know, that still doesn't explain why you have a license to override the over arching principles that apply to any knowledge based claim.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    I'm not sure how that pertains to the idea of us being born innocent
    That was never my point. My point was that if God is omniscient and knows what it takes for an atheist, for example, to be converted, but refrains from taking such action, he has basically doomed him/her to Hell the day he/she were born.
    once again, what makes you so sure god is being inactive?

    But if you want to talk about original sin, let me know. I have a lot of reasons why such a thing wouldn't make any sense.
    you're probably better off asking a christian

    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    I take it another assumption you are working with is that humans on the earth comprise of the complete set of souls ....
    Oh, not at all. I just didn't realize we were talking about Hinduism. Anyhow, unless you consider non-living things to be comprised of a soul, I'd still think we'd have the problem of multiplication. That is assuming it is a problem at all of course.
    Now would probably be a good time to give an indication of what means you are using to determine the complete set of living entities in the universe, ....or even the planet for that matter. Its kind of difficult to indicate a cubic centimeter that isn't jam packed with some sort of life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    once again, what makes you so sure god is being inactive?
    Is there any evidence to the contrary?

    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Now would probably be a good time to give an indication of what means you are using to determine the complete set of living entities in the universe, ....or even the planet for that matter. Its kind of difficult to indicate a cubic centimeter that isn't jam packed with some sort of life.
    Ah, you got me there. :wink:
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    once again, what makes you so sure god is being inactive?
    "God. make me a Jam sandwich...."

    5 minutes later...

    Fine I'll make one myself.

    Funny thing is, He then makes out with his grand scheme that He actually made it even though I was the one who got off his arse and physcially made it....

    And He condemns me for being a sloth.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    once again, what makes you so sure god is being inactive?
    Is there any evidence to the contrary?
    Maybe a better way to phrase the question is "In what ways would you expect a god active in the re-habilitation of atheists to act?"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Wolf
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    once again, what makes you so sure god is being inactive?
    "God. make me a Jam sandwich...."

    5 minutes later...

    Fine I'll make one myself.

    Funny thing is, He then makes out with his grand scheme that He actually made it even though I was the one who got off his arse and physcially made it....

    And He condemns me for being a sloth.
    congratulations

    first lesson in spiritual life : God is not an employee of your mother
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    Reptile Dysfunction drowsy turtle's Avatar
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    The existance of doubt in god, maybe - why allow your creation to deny you?
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    The existance of doubt in god, maybe - why allow your creation to deny you?
    probably a logical consequence of bestowing free will that is free
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  95. #94  
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    Free will to follow the laws in the bible. God gives us free will, then punishes us for using it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Free will to follow the laws in the bible. God gives us free will, then punishes us for using it.
    I'm not sure I follow.

    hardly 30% of the world is christian (and of those 30%, probably not many follow the bible so well anyway), so its clear at the onset that issues of free will stand greater than obedience to the scriptural injunctions of christians.
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  97. #96  
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    Sorry, after a week of battling with archaeologist I am not used to answers which make perfect logical sense. Can't you throw in some illogical ideas or circular reasoning? :wink:
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  98. #97  
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Maybe a better way to phrase the question is "In what ways would you expect a god active in the re-habilitation of atheists to act?"
    Active.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Maybe a better way to phrase the question is "In what ways would you expect a god active in the re-habilitation of atheists to act?"
    Active.
    er yes .... but in what ways specifically that he (apparently) isn't at the moment?

    Or would you prefer to switch topics and discuss how an omnipresent god can exist without necessarily being draped in neon lights for all to see?
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  100. #99  
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    er yes .... but in what ways specifically that he (apparently) isn't at the moment?

    Or would you prefer to switch topics and discuss how an omnipresent god can exist without necessarily being draped in neon lights for all to see?
    Did I get you?

    Guess we're even then. :wink:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    er yes .... but in what ways specifically that he (apparently) isn't at the moment?

    Or would you prefer to switch topics and discuss how an omnipresent god can exist without necessarily being draped in neon lights for all to see?
    Did I get you?
    er ... not unless ambiguity is an established means of determining victory in debate
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