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Thread: Evil is good. As all of God's gifts are.

  1. #1 Evil is good. As all of God's gifts are. 
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    Evil is good. As all of Gods gifts are.

    God looked at Eden and said it was good. Eden included Satan to represent evil, the talking snake to represent society and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. All good.


    It is said that all of Godís works are perfect. Evil and sin then, as His works and creation, must be perfect.

    Genesis tells us that to know God better and understand His philosophy, we must eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. In fact we must eat of the evil side. Evil it seems is a better teacher than the good. Perhaps because of guilt and shame. This is what Eve chose and this is where we gain our moral sense.

    Sin and evil were born in heaven before the earth was even formed. God cast 1/3 of angels (most think evil but actually good), to earth to help teach us this valuable lesson. Why else would He give us these angels if they were not benevolent? He would certainly not wish us evil, would He?

    If Godís will cannot be thwarted then Eve did not fall at all but leapt to a glorious future of knowing why she and we are to follow God. A glorious leap to a history that we would not have if she had not had the intelligence or curiosity to begin our great journey.

    If you were Eve, what would you do?

    Eat of it and learn morals and wisdom or
    not eat of it and remain in ignorance of why you should follow God.

    Regards
    DL


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    Reptile Dysfunction drowsy turtle's Avatar
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    I am an atheist and do not believe in god.

    But if I did, I would still point-blank refuse to worship. I don't agree with having to worship anyone or anything. If god was half of what he is supposed to be, he would understand that.


    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    I am an atheist and do not believe in god.

    But if I did, I would still point-blank refuse to worship. I don't agree with having to worship anyone or anything. If god was half of what he is supposed to be, he would understand that.
    I too have a hard time with worship and adoration.

    I see God defined as a philosophy. We all follow a political or religious God and neither have earned my full respect, let alone love.

    You may be in the right camp at present because secular governments are writing better laws than most religions.

    Regards
    DL
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    Evil is good. As all of Gods gifts are.
    I'm evil? I didn't know that about myself.
    It is said that all of Godís works are perfect. Evil and sin then, as His works and creation, must be perfect.
    Who says that?
    Genesis tells us that to know God better and understand His philosophy, we must eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
    God was pretty specific in saying that Adam and Eve shouldn't eat the satan fruit... I suddenly crave apple pie.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kukhri
    Evil is good. As all of Gods gifts are.
    I'm evil? I didn't know that about myself.
    Learning is good.

    It is said that all of Godís works are perfect. Evil and sin then, as His works and creation, must be perfect.
    Who says that?
    Scripture.

    Genesis tells us that to know God better and understand His philosophy, we must eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
    God was pretty specific in saying that Adam and Eve shouldn't eat the satan fruit... I suddenly crave apple pie.
    Then He should not have placed something that is to be desired by any intelligent person in front of them.

    Rather a stupid move on His part but if you look at the Bible in total, you see God often doing what He says not to do. Like killing mankind even to the point of a genocidal flood.

    Do as I say and not as I do is a poor policy for a law maker.

    Regards
    DL
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    don't work your mind over giam. how can god be evil if he represent good, and were did you get all those info of god creating evil, must be from the "BIBLE" of giam. giam are a ethiest, agnostic or from other belief?.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    don't work your mind over giam. how can god be evil if he represent evil, and were did you get all those info of god creating evil and so fort was that fake BIBLE
    I do not recall saying that God was evil. Not my God in any case. I have said that if you read the Bible literally then that God is a loser and a genocidal maniac. I stand by this and so do the Christians that wait for end times for a God of perfection to return to fix his perfect works.

    As to perfect works and God creating evil, the Bible tells us so. Check it out.

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    don't work your mind over giam. how can god be evil if he represent evil, and were did you get all those info of god creating evil and so fort was that fake BIBLE
    I do not recall saying that God was evil. Not my God in any case. I have said that if you read the Bible literally then that God is a loser and a genocidal maniac. I stand by this and so do the Christians that wait for end times for a God of perfection to return to fix his perfect works.

    As to perfect works and God creating evil, the Bible tells us so. Check it out.

    Regards
    DL
    i urgggh, perfect works= perfect design, as in the biological design..-.- and my bible does not tell me anything about god creating evil, perhaps god creating lucifer, and he then being gangster of all evil
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    don't work your mind over giam. how can god be evil if he represent evil, and were did you get all those info of god creating evil and so fort was that fake BIBLE
    I do not recall saying that God was evil. Not my God in any case. I have said that if you read the Bible literally then that God is a loser and a genocidal maniac. I stand by this and so do the Christians that wait for end times for a God of perfection to return to fix his perfect works.

    As to perfect works and God creating evil, the Bible tells us so. Check it out.

    Regards
    DL
    i urgggh, perfect works= perfect design, as in the biological design..-.- and my bible does not tell me anything about god creating evil, perhaps god creating lucifer, and he then being gangster of all evil
    The template for evil must have existed for God to put the information into Satan.

    As to your empty Bible.


    Deuteronomy 32:4
    He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.


    Isaiah 45:7
    I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

    Regards
    DL
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    It's more an issue of translation than religion or philosophy. I think this link satisfactorily deals with this topic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kukhri
    It's more an issue of translation than religion or philosophy. I think this link satisfactorily deals with this topic.
    Except for the fact that eating of the tree of knowledge teaches moral sense.
    To be as God's knowing good and evil.

    Would you stop Eve and not allow man to have moral sense?

    And why the hell did God bring Satan to the garden to pester Eve, instead of sending him straight to hell?

    Stacking the deck in His favor so that man could have moral sense.

    Regards
    DL
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    Don't hold me to this, but at this point in the bible, satan doesn't exist, does he?

    Satan was exiled from heaven later on in the bible.

    Ah well. Trying to make sense from the bible is like trying to cure cancer - it can be done, but not reliably so, and only with a certain degree of success in most cases.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Don't hold me to this, but at this point in the bible, satan doesn't exist, does he?

    Satan was exiled from heaven later on in the bible.

    Ah well. Trying to make sense from the bible is like trying to cure cancer - it can be done, but not reliably so, and only with a certain degree of success in most cases.
    Many think the talking snake was Satan. I do not read the Bible literally and do not agree but for this post the snake must be Satan. Who else did God invent to tempt (a bad thing) Eve.

    If not then who is the snake representing?
    My non literal reading says that the snake is society tempting children and young adults out of the home/garden.

    If you want to read Genesis the right way then I suggest that you try it as a rite of passage for young adults leaving home/garden for the real world that has good and evil in it. Surprisingly many believers see it that way. Many of course do not. Then it is not a fall and God does not start with a screwed up system. God after all is not supposed to be able to screw up.

    Sort of make you wonder what the end timers are waiting for. God won't fix what ain't supposed to be breakable.

    Regards
    DL
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    urgggh, you force me to reseach, hate that any way this should clearly answer you question.

    i think the main problem is translation and the bible will be translated in to many other languages. heck you might just read the hebrew version one with no english trasnlation ...lol, to of the true understanding

    "Does God create evil?
    Isaiah 45:7 and Amos 3:6
    (Isaiah 45:7, KJV) - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
    (Amos 3:6) - "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" Is God really the one who created evil? To answer the question we must first look at how the word for evil "rah" is used in the Bible, examine the context of the Isaiah 45:7 passage, and look at other passages on the same subject.

    First of all, the Hebrew word for evil "rah" is used in many different ways in the Bible. In the KJV Bible, it occurs 663 times. 431 times it is translated as "evil." The other 232 times it is translated as "wicked", "bad", "hurt", "harm", "ill", "sorrow", "mischief", "displeased", "adversity", "affliction", "trouble", "calamity", "grievous", "misery", and "trouble." So we can see that the word does not require that it be translated as "evil." This is why different Bibles translate this verse differently. It is translated as "calamity" by the NASB and NKJV; "disaster" by the NIV; and "woe" by the RSV;

    Second, the context of the verse is speaking of natural phenomena.

    "I am the Lord, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; 6That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other, 7The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these," (Isaiah 45:5-7).

    Notice that the context of the verse is dealing with who God is, that it is God who speaks of natural phenomena (sun, light, dark), and it is God who is able to cause "well-being" as well as "calamity." Contextually, this verse is dealing with natural disasters, and human comfort issues. It is not speaking of moral evil; rather, it is dealing with calamity, distress, etc. This is consistent with other scriptures. For example,

    "And the Lord said to him, "Who has made manís mouth? Or who makes him dumb or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?" (Exodus 4:11).
    "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6).
    From the above two verses we can see that the Lord is involved in calamity and problems in the earthly realm. Exodus 4:11 is speaking of human frailty and Amos 3:6 is speaking of woes in a city. It is not a moral evil that God brings, but calamity and distress upon people.
    Of course, this raises other questions of why God would do such a thing, which I won't cover here. But, we can trust that whatever God does is just and is used for teaching, guiding, and disciplining His people.

    Third, there are other verses that clearly show that God is pure and that He cannot approve of evil.

    ďThe Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; a God of faithfulness and without injustice, righteous and upright is He," (Deut. 32:4).
    "Thine eyes are too pure to approve evil, and Thou canst not look on wickedness with favor," (Hab. 1:13).
    We can see that the Bible teaches that God is pure and does not approve of evil, that the word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew can mean many things, and that contextually, the verse is speaking calamity and distress. Therefore, God does not create evil in the moral sense, but in the sense of disaster, of calamity"
    http://www.carm.org/bible-difficulti...od-create-evil
    conclusion
    the bible has been translated in over 100 languages and on-going, i my self read the king james version is it is the one with less bad translation.

    if you do not understand anthing i will be happy to research it and bring my conclusion.
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    G S

    "Third, there are other verses that clearly show that God is pure and that He cannot approve of evil. "

    Was the genocidal flood of Noah's time not evil?
    Does God see genocide as good?

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    G S

    "Third, there are other verses that clearly show that God is pure and that He cannot approve of evil. "

    Was the genocidal flood of Noah's time not evil?
    Does God see genocide as good?

    Regards
    DL
    genocide of sinners, YES. PLUS THIS OD TESTEMENT.
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    Reptile Dysfunction drowsy turtle's Avatar
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    Jesus was a Jew, was he not?

    If you base your belief on the bible, you cannot reliable assume you are correct because of the unreliability of the bible, and the conflict of views within it. For instance, the bible states exactly how old the Earth is, but the ancient Egyptian empire is older than this date.

    If you do not base your belief on the bible, you are making it up as you go along, or have been brainwashed by someone elses interpretation of the bible.

    Either way, not great, really, is it?
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    G S

    "Third, there are other verses that clearly show that God is pure and that He cannot approve of evil. "

    Was the genocidal flood of Noah's time not evil?
    Does God see genocide as good?

    Regards
    DL
    genocide of sinners, YES. PLUS THIS OD TESTEMENT.
    Then serve your genocidal maniac well.
    You know, the one that kills babies by the millions.
    You might wonder though why he creates sinners and not sinless men.

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Jesus was a Jew, was he not?

    If you base your belief on the bible, you cannot reliable assume you are correct because of the unreliability of the bible, and the conflict of views within it. For instance, the bible states exactly how old the Earth is, but the ancient Egyptian empire is older than this date.

    If you do not base your belief on the bible, you are making it up as you go along, or have been brainwashed by someone elses interpretation of the bible.

    Either way, not great, really, is it?
    Better a new God than an old genocidal fool for sure.

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Jesus was a Jew, was he not?

    If you base your belief on the bible, you cannot reliable assume you are correct because of the unreliability of the bible, and the conflict of views within it. For instance, the bible states exactly how old the Earth is, but the ancient Egyptian empire is older than this date.

    If you do not base your belief on the bible, you are making it up as you go along, or have been brainwashed by someone elses interpretation of the bible.

    Either way, not great, really, is it?
    Better a new God than an old genocidal fool for sure.

    Regards
    DL
    if you read the new testement you would have known that jesus, was not an introduction of a new God!.. and turtle, may be i missed some thing but when did the bible give a date on when the world was made?

    at least if am worng you ant going to go to hell ^^, if it exist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Jesus was a Jew, was he not?

    If you base your belief on the bible, you cannot reliable assume you are correct because of the unreliability of the bible, and the conflict of views within it. For instance, the bible states exactly how old the Earth is, but the ancient Egyptian empire is older than this date.

    If you do not base your belief on the bible, you are making it up as you go along, or have been brainwashed by someone elses interpretation of the bible.

    Either way, not great, really, is it?
    Better a new God than an old genocidal fool for sure.

    Regards
    DL
    if you read the new testement you would have known that jesus, was not an introduction of a new God!.. and turtle, may be i missed some thing but when did the bible give a date on when the world was made?

    at least if am worng you ant going to go to hell ^^, if it exist.
    I understand that. Jesus/God is a genocidal fool.
    Why would you follow such?

    Regards
    DL
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  23. #22  
    Reptile Dysfunction drowsy turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    Jesus was a Jew, was he not?

    If you base your belief on the bible, you cannot reliable assume you are correct because of the unreliability of the bible, and the conflict of views within it. For instance, the bible states exactly how old the Earth is, but the ancient Egyptian empire is older than this date.

    If you do not base your belief on the bible, you are making it up as you go along, or have been brainwashed by someone elses interpretation of the bible.

    Either way, not great, really, is it?
    Better a new God than an old genocidal fool for sure.

    Regards
    DL
    if you read the new testement you would have known that jesus, was not an introduction of a new God!.. and turtle, may be i missed some thing but when did the bible give a date on when the world was made?
    Modern bibles have this removed, along with some other points. Some time in the near future I'll research it, but it was the reason there was so much funding for study of ancient egyptian artefacts and culture over the past few centuries.

    Typical religion, they saw the bible had a huge mistake in it, so they hid the mistake and pretended nothing had happened.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    Reptile Dysfunction drowsy turtle's Avatar
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    It appears I was wrong; it is still in the bible, but must be calculated.

    http://www.albatrus.org/english/theo..._age_earth.htm
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    It appears I was wrong; it is still in the bible, but must be calculated.

    http://www.albatrus.org/english/theo..._age_earth.htm
    that site is bias and makes no sense, the big bang theory and evolution theroy= well theroies= ideas=not fact

    dawring theroy are good theroy but apart from that well.. that it, acording to darwin monkeys are supose to be debating with us, no other animal has cultre or religion,/ ur knoweldge. there over 10 differen species of monkey, like chimps baboon, and so on there are like 4 different races of humans , black, white, yelow, indian. rats have 92% dna with human , monkeys 99.5. apprently we evolved from fishheds .... i mean all these ideas are bull sh* ...... because you can pull out bones from past that look like /monkeys slash humans doe snot mean there are ancestors of humans. to me there are bones that look like chimps not humans , there is not any good evidence; apart from bones, the living platapus; which look slie a fish/mamal , apprently stuck evolvin gfrom a fish or is stil currently evolving in to a fish lol. any way all there thing are bunch of ideas.

    apprently we were amino acids, then millions of years the amino acid became cells then system of cells and you expect me to belive that if you leave amino acids for millions of years it will turn to animals, -.- lol

    you scientifc theroy is as dim as what you think my biblical ideas is...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    It appears I was wrong; it is still in the bible, but must be calculated.

    http://www.albatrus.org/english/theo..._age_earth.htm
    that site is bias and makes no sense, the big bang theory and evolution theroy= well theroies= ideas=not fact

    dawring theroy are good theroy but apart from that well.. that it, acording to darwin monkeys are supose to be debating with us no other animal has cultre, religion, there over 10 differen species of monkey, like chimps baboon, and so on there are like 4 different races of humans , black, white, yelow, indian. rats have 92% dna with human , monkeys 99.5. apprently we evolved from fishheds .... i mean all these ideas are bull sh* ...... because you can pull out bones from past that look like /monkeys slash humans doe snot mean there are ancestors of humans. to me there are bones that look like chimps not humans , there is not any good evidence; apart from bones, the living platapus; which look slie a fish/mamal , apprently stuck evolvin gfrom a fish or is stil currently evolving in to a fish lol. any way all there thing are bunch of ideas.
    This post of yours shows an exceedingly abysmal understanding of evolutionary concepts and the scientific method. This is, unfortunately, a very common trait among the religious. Please, do yourself a huge favour and study a bit on the subject and do this without letting incredulity getting the better of you. Evolution does not exclude the possibility of a god existing, but it does destroy a literal interpretation of parts of the Bible. Please consider that in order for you to effectively debate on anything requires that you actually know something about it. Otherwise you just look like a fool.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    It appears I was wrong; it is still in the bible, but must be calculated.

    http://www.albatrus.org/english/theo..._age_earth.htm
    that site is bias and makes no sense, the big bang theory and evolution theroy= well theroies= ideas=not fact

    dawring theroy are good theroy but apart from that well.. that it, acording to darwin monkeys are supose to be debating with us, no other animal has cultre or religion,/ ur knoweldge. there over 10 differen species of monkey, like chimps baboon, and so on there are like 4 different races of humans , black, white, yelow, indian. rats have 92% dna with human , monkeys 99.5. apprently we evolved from fishheds .... i mean all these ideas are bull sh* ...... because you can pull out bones from past that look like /monkeys slash humans doe snot mean there are ancestors of humans. to me there are bones that look like chimps not humans , there is not any good evidence; apart from bones, the living platapus; which look slie a fish/mamal , apprently stuck evolvin gfrom a fish or is stil currently evolving in to a fish lol. any way all there thing are bunch of ideas.

    apprently we were amino acids, then millions of years the amino acid became cells then system of cells and you expect me to belive that if you leave amino acids for millions of years it will turn to animals, -.- lol

    you scientifc theroy is as dim as what you think my biblical ideas is...
    If you You tube I D trials you will see how the law of the land deals with creationist who try to destroy science .

    You lose.
    Educate yourself.

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    that site is bias and makes no sense, the big bang theory and evolution theroy= well theroies= ideas=not fact

    dawring theroy are good theroy but apart from that well.. that it, acording to darwin monkeys are supose to be debating with us, no other animal has cultre or religion,/ ur knoweldge. there over 10 differen species of monkey, like chimps baboon, and so on there are like 4 different races of humans , black, white, yelow, indian. rats have 92% dna with human , monkeys 99.5. apprently we evolved from fishheds .... i mean all these ideas are bull sh* ...... because you can pull out bones from past that look like /monkeys slash humans doe snot mean there are ancestors of humans. to me there are bones that look like chimps not humans , there is not any good evidence; apart from bones, the living platapus; which look slie a fish/mamal , apprently stuck evolvin gfrom a fish or is stil currently evolving in to a fish lol. any way all there thing are bunch of ideas.

    apprently we were amino acids, then millions of years the amino acid became cells then system of cells and you expect me to belive that if you leave amino acids for millions of years it will turn to animals, -.- lol

    you scientifc theroy is as dim as what you think my biblical ideas is...
    You know you just pulled most of this psuedo-understanding of science right out of your ass, right?

    Theory, in scientific terms, means a gathering of facts and thorough understanding of them which together can make accurate predictions, etc. A theory in unscientific terms means a hunch or idea which is the equivalent of a hypothesis in scientific terms. Evolution and the big bang are not hypotheses as you seem to think, they are theories.
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    Reptile Dysfunction drowsy turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    It appears I was wrong; it is still in the bible, but must be calculated.

    http://www.albatrus.org/english/theo..._age_earth.htm
    that site is bias and makes no sense, the big bang theory and evolution theroy= well theroies= ideas=not fact
    What is religion if it is not a theory with no evidence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    dawring theroy are good theroy but apart from that well.. that it, acording to darwin monkeys are supose to be debating with us, no other animal has cultre or religion,/ ur knoweldge. there over 10 differen species of monkey, like chimps baboon, and so on there are like 4 different races of humans , black, white, yelow, indian. rats have 92% dna with human , monkeys 99.5. apprently we evolved from fishheds .... i mean all these ideas are bull sh* ......
    Those ideas are experrimentally proven. Unlike, for example, turning 5 fish and 2 loaves of bread into a feast for thousands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    because you can pull out bones from past that look like /monkeys slash humans doe snot mean there are ancestors of humans. to me there are bones that look like chimps not humans , there is not any good evidence; apart from bones, the living platapus; which look slie a fish/mamal , apprently stuck evolvin gfrom a fish or is stil currently evolving in to a fish lol. any way all there thing are bunch of ideas.
    Yes. A bunch of ideas which every evperiment and piece of evidence has shown is correct. As apposed to a giant invisible man who is everywhere but nowhere and can do anything but never does anything, and has a son even though his son was himself. You're right, your approach makes much more sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    apprently we were amino acids, then millions of years the amino acid became cells then system of cells and you expect me to belive that if you leave amino acids for millions of years it will turn to animals, -.- lol
    Yeah, I suppose it makes much more sense that god made a man out of nothing, then made a woman out of the man's rib. Whatever was I thinking, suggesting religion was illogical and unbelievable with no evidence to support any of its claims, including the above mentioned claim? Stupid me....

    Quote Originally Posted by Gods servant
    you scientifc theroy is as dim as what you think my biblical ideas is...
    You make them dim for yourself by lacking any understanding of anything outside of your religion. I mean, you're posting on a scientific forum to oppose science. And you're doing it on a piece of equipment built with science. etc.

    Look around you and see which has given humankind the most - religion or science. The prayer against the computer.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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