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Thread: The Case for a Creator Movie.

  1. #1 The Case for a Creator Movie. 
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    I attend a Catholic school, although I myself am an atheist, in Canada and part of the curriculum is religion class. In religion we watched the movie "Case for a Creator". I'd like to know your opinions on the movie. I personally thought it was obvious propaganda (information that is spread for the purpose of promoting some cause). Along with it came two worksheets, I can upload them if anyone is interested.

    I wish I didn't have to attend this class as it is a waste of my time. Religion 9, 15, 25, and 35 are required at my school to participate in Grad activities, but not to graduate. Would anyone perhaps know a way that I may claim sanctuary from this class?

    Link to movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNyOV...eature=related


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    Forum Cosmic Wizard i_feel_tiredsleepy's Avatar
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    Attend a different school. I'm guessing this is a private institution?

    Although religion is taught in Canadian public schools, usually it is an optional course.

    When I went to public school I attended the Protestant School Board of Greater Montreal, which as a result of the many denominations it represented tended to teach a broader approach to religion, but I thought that most of the religious public schools had been secularized in the last 10-20 years.


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    the only watchable religiously inspired stuff i've seen is bleach, and dead like me.
    both are very liberal views of religion.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
    A.C Doyle
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Yes this is paid propaganda. After an interesting beginning with the guy who became a journalist setting out to find the truth, this film quickly decends into complete nonsense and lies. I would certainly expect a very very strong correlation in people, between low IQ and whether anyone thought this film had merit. Instead this becomes a sad testimony about how pseudo-science can subvert such a search for truth when the seeker doesn't know any real science. This is a pure anti-evolution propaganda with its flat unjustified claim that Christianity is incompatable with evolution. Of course the magical Christianity of these people may indeed be incompatable with science or critical thought of any kind. Looks to me like Stroble saved his marriage by sacrificing his intellectual integrity assuming he had any to begin with.

    As for the science so far... It is argued that the atmosphere of the early earth was carbon dioxide and water like what comes out of a volcano, rather than the hydrogen, carbon dioxide, methane and ammonia mix used in the original experiment. That does not sound right to me at all. Hydrogen will indeed tend to escape the earth atmosphere but this is the most common material in the Solar System and most naturally part of the formation of the Solar System, so I am not sure that we can rule this out of being in the atmosphere of the earth, earlier in the history of the Solar System. After all we are looking at life starting at least 3 billion years ago and the earth itself is only 4.54 billion years old. In any case studies suggest that that the early atmosphere may have been as much as 40% hydrogen.

    But that is nothing compared to the blatant absurdity of excluding methane which is present in the atmospheres most of the other planets and which we are constantly taking out of the earth to heat our homes and water everday. Ammonia is even more common on other planets and it would beggar belief to think that this was not present because otherwise where did the nitrogen in our atmosphere come from? But as shown by experiments using many different mixtures, the truth is that as long as there is no oxygen molecules and there is a source of hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen and water then the results are pretty much the same. So the claim that carbondioxide, nitrogen and water would not work doesn't ring true for this mixture has worked even when done with the more oxidizing carbon monoxide in it.

    But in any case the key issue here is methodology. It simply isn't science to try mixtures of gasses until you find a mixture that doesn't work and then start proclaiming that this is what the atmosphere of the early earth must have been. The fact remains tha these pseudo-science rhetoricians simply don't want a scientific theory of any kind for the origin of life so they can feel secure in their pseudo-religous beliefs.




    It interests me that there is religious education in public schools in Canada but if they really want to study religion then they should take a closer look at where this film came from and get some real scholars to examine the reasons why such a film was made. I thought the trends in the US were scary but there are some developments in some areas of Canada that may be worse.




    P.S. I have met Johnathon Wells and he doesn't like me at all. He prefers to give his spiel to groups that doesn't ask difficult questions or introduce challenging subjects.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    Yes this is paid propaganda. After an interesting beginning with the guy who became a journalist setting out to find the truth, this film quickly decends into complete nonsense and lies.
    He's written a number of books like this on various subjects. Although he likes to present them as being a "case" to persuade someone, so far as I can tell the target audience is always people who already agree with his conclusions.
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    I D is as dead an idea as creation by a super miracle working God.

    Now if only those who believe in such a God would focus on a plausible God, then they might further their cause.

    The longer they try to shove talking snakes and ten headed monsters down our throats the more damage they will do to their religions.

    Regards
    DL
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    Forum Ph.D. verzen's Avatar
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    Lukey, what are the worksheets indicating? What you thought of the film? If it is, I can think of a very vindictive and very fun activity for you to do. *Cough* I'm an agent of chaos, see? *cough*

    Write about how it is propaganda and how religion spreads hate and violence. Write down how it ostracizes people of different beliefs and how religion in and of itself is formed from a bigoted nature toward hating others. Also write about how religion teaches that people are only good because they fear God. If the sole reason of people being good is based on fearing what God might do to them, then as a race of humans, we are a very sorry lot indeed. 8)
    "Democracy is a problem because it treats everyone as equals." - Betty Fischer

    "back in the 50's or 60's Nicky Criuz was a gang leader who met David Wilkerson in New York City. After much discussion over months or years, i forget how long, Wilkerson's wife became pregnant. one day Cruz decides to test God, he basically prayed--God if you are real let the baby be born a boy-- it was a boy. "
    - Logic of a creationist

    Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur
    ""What can be asserted without reason, can be dismissed without reason. ""
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    Forum Cosmic Wizard i_feel_tiredsleepy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    It interests me that there is religious education in public schools in Canada but if they really want to study religion then they should take a closer look at where this film came from and get some real scholars to examine the reasons why such a film was made. I thought the trends in the US were scary but there are some developments in some areas of Canada that may be worse.
    Well Canada has traditionally been a predominantly Catholic country, especially in Quebec. So confirmation classes used to be given in public schools. I'm only 21 and the religious school boards were abolished in Quebec when I was in grade 4, so the secularization of public schools is relatively recent. Though Moral and Religious education remains a part of the public school curriculum as far as I know. These courses though mostly focused around teaching basics about various religions and what makes them different, and different ethical and moral theories.

    I quite like this system, as I came from an immigrant heavy lower income neighbourhood the students in my school were about 40% black, many first generation Canadians whose parents came from the Caribbean, and several Indians and Muslims. I think I've greatly benefited from learning about Sihkism, Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam in school since at home I received a rather narrow religious education from my Irish protestant mother. Children have nothing to lose from being exposed to different philosophies in a non-biased way. I do object to attempts by teachers to indoctrinate children, and never should a child be forced to be exposed to something they are uncomfortable with.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_feel_tiredsleepy
    Well Canada has traditionally been a predominantly Catholic country, especially in Quebec. So confirmation classes used to be given in public schools. I'm only 21 and the religious school boards were abolished in Quebec when I was in grade 4, so the secularization of public schools is relatively recent. Though Moral and Religious education remains a part of the public school curriculum as far as I know. These courses though mostly focused around teaching basics about various religions and what makes them different, and different ethical and moral theories.
    Yes that makes a lot of sense. I am familiar with the kind of religious education that is found in Catholic schools.


    Quote Originally Posted by i_feel_tiredsleepy
    I quite like this system, as I came from an immigrant heavy lower income neighbourhood the students in my school were about 40% black, many first generation Canadians whose parents came from the Caribbean, and several Indians and Muslims. I think I've greatly benefited from learning about Sihkism, Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam in school since at home I received a rather narrow religious education from my Irish protestant mother. Children have nothing to lose from being exposed to different philosophies in a non-biased way. I do object to attempts by teachers to indoctrinate children, and never should a child be forced to be exposed to something they are uncomfortable with.
    I did not mean to imply that this religion class necessarily represented something worse or more scary than what is in the US. Though the fact that they showed such a film in these classes does not speak well for the program. I was refering more to the fact that there are some Christian universities in Canada -- universities that have manage insulate themselves from honest scientific inquiry with the promotion of rhetoric and propaganda. In fact, this film is exactly the sort of thing that they might produce. I am all for religious education -- the question is whether it can really be done with a proper secular objectivity.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
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  11. #10  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard i_feel_tiredsleepy's Avatar
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    There are probably a similar amount of Christian universities of that type in the USA as well. This will vary depending on the region.

    I certainly agree that if this is what's being shown in religion classes in public schools, it is not appropriate. However, I would be stunned to discover this to be the norm.

    I believe one is more likely to encounter these sorts of things in the American South, or Mid-Western Canada where some religious groups take these sorts of aggressive stances against proper education.

    I know of two "science museums" that teach creationism as a scientific fact, one is in Alabama and the other is in Alberta, Canada. I think it's troubling for both nations to see this go on.
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