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Thread: The Christian Reconstructionists

  1. #1 The Christian Reconstructionists 
    Forum Ph.D. verzen's Avatar
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    Their goal? To take over the united states and institute the old testament death penalties. That's right folks, to stone disobedient children/fornicators/homosexuals/people who worship a false god. That's right..

    http://www.truthout.org/article/chri...minion-america


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  3. #2  
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    Could you please find the part in that rather long article where it says clearly that they want "to stone disobedient children/fornicators/homosexuals/people who worship a false god"?

    I whisked through it but couldn't see it. I doubt it said it, but assuming you're correct all I can say is that those people aren't good Christians.



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  4. #3  
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    Based in Powder Springs, Ga., American Vision also produces reams of material that push Christian Reconstructionism, a form of fundamentalism that argues for a re-writing of American history, dismantling secular democracy and constructing an America governed by "biblical law." Reconstructionists seek to impose the criminal code of the Old Testament, applying the death penalty for homosexuals, adulterers, fornicators, witches, incorrigible juvenile delinquents and those who spread false religions.
    ctrl F for the win?

    then also
    His plentiful material has left a track record of extremism. North has called for the death penalty, like Rushdoony did, for youngsters who curse their parents, gays and others who violate his interpretation of biblical law. He has argued that stoning is the preferred means of capital punishment, noting that it is a communal activity and "the implements of execution are available to everyone at virtually no cost." Writing for Reason magazine in 1998, Walter Olson observed that Reconstructionists like North "provide the most enthusiastic constituency for stoning since the Taliban seized Kabul."
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    What do you expect from verzen? He is one of the "new communists" which is the compliment of these "new fascists" that the article is criticizing. Verzen hankers after remaking the world in his image just as much as these Christian fascists want to remake this country in their image.

    What we must of course do is resist this reincarnation of the old lie of the last world war. The fascists and the communists are not really enemies at all, just two flanks of the army of the forces of destruction. Before you know it they will sign a non-agression pact based on the one thing that they do agree about -- the destruction of all the human rights and liberties that people have fought and died for in the past.



    Hey just think about it... if these wackos succeed in remaking the USA into a theocracy then maybe this country can become the new center for terrorism in the world and they can send their freshly programmed ideologues into muslim countries as suicide bombers and fly their comercial jets into their public buildings. Maybe that what they want -- to give their enemies a taste of their own medicine.

    Or will they suddenly realize that they have more in common with these muslim countries than differences, and then the new Axis powers of world war IV will be the Middle East and the United states (taken over by these brain dead "christian" wackos). Who will oppose the fascists this time?
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  6. #5  
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    Wait what? I'm not a communist! I believe in freedom and Im an atheist. I heard that getting stoned isn't the same as it was in the 70's. I'm FOR the freedom of humans. I'm a humanist. I don't believe in Christian control. I believe banning gay marriage is horrible.. I believe control is horrible.. :?
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  7. #6  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    Wait what? I'm not a communist! I believe in freedom and Im an atheist. I heard that getting stoned isn't the same as it was in the 70's. I'm FOR the freedom of humans. I'm a humanist. I don't believe in Christian control. I believe banning gay marriage is horrible.. I believe control is horrible.. :?
    Anyone who creates an us and them mentality, pointing to those guys over there as the source of all the problems, is a part of the problem rather than part of the solution. The problem is all of us in precisely these kinds of bad habits. The only enemy is ourselves. We must come recognise that people are different and think in very different ways and we should celebrate those differences rather than seeing them as something bad that must be eliminated. Remaking the world in our own image is a horrible thing no matter how you try to candy coat it.

    I believe there is a God and you do not and with our different perspectives we can both contribute to a better tomorrow if we are willing to work together. For that to happen we must compromise on issues where we have disagreements rather than insisting that compromise is impossible because only our way of thinking is righteous/rational.
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  8. #7  
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    Since we have differences, when you start to threaten me with stoning.. That is when the gloves come off. I'm cool with differences. But I am not cool with injustice.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    Since we have differences, when you start to threaten me with stoning.. That is when the gloves come off. I'm cool with differences. But I am not cool with injustice.
    YES! YES! YES! Tolerance has naturally definable limits. Obviously not all differences are compatable with a free society. In that regard every different lifestyle, religion and philosophical approach to life must justify themselves. This is the question that the world has in regards to Islam at the moment. With its propensity to theocratic government and the numerous incidents of intolerance, the rest of the world has cause to wonder if it can be or is willing to be compatable with the principles of a free society.

    In the case of Christianity, I think there is no doubt that it certainly can be compatable with a free society. History has proven this to be the case. BUT clearly there are reactionary elements in Christianity that appear not to want to be compatable. I think that exaclty the same is true of atheism.
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  10. #9  
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    These people are nto good christians verzen. I hope you can differentiaite between a "real" christian and these idiots.

    These idiots obviously have no idea real clue about what the new covenant means.

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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    Since we have differences, when you start to threaten me with stoning.. That is when the gloves come off. I'm cool with differences. But I am not cool with injustice.
    You are not cool with differences.

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  12. #11  
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    I'm more tolerant with differences than you think.
    You do not think I like differences, because I am an atheist and I attack Christians. That is not true. I am not gay, but I want gay rights. I want people to be free. I like the first amendment. I am NOT ok with people pushing their beliefs on me.. I am NOT ok with Christians going around and spreading lies about how Atheists are immoral. I am not ok with religion spreading hate. I am NOT OK with religious zealots going to extremes and threatening my first amendment.
    Now lets look at Christians such as these, who are ONLY obeying the bible. (If you say that people who obey the bible are bad christians, then WHY the hell are you a christian if you don't follow the bible?!?)
    They want to stone people who are different then them or don't agree with them.
    They want to stone homosexuals and atheists and Hindu's. They should be free to express their religious belief but to not push it on others and force it down our throats. As a christian, I do not expect you to understand. People pushing Christianity down your throat is accepted and not force fed for you like they try to do with Atheists.
    Think of it this way.. What if a Muslim went up to you and started shoving his beliefs down your throat... you would be offended and fight back, right? That is the way I feel. Separation of Church and State is what I worship and I believe in. However, if you try to preach, I will fight you for it. I do not believe in preaching, since preaching usually results in, "If you don't do what I do or if you don't think the way I think, you will go to hell and burn for all of eternity because you are immoral" Or worse, they will put you in a state of fear because you don't want to be stoned. Living in America, fear is the last thing we should be worried of. We should not fear living in a secular country. I don't know how many people tell me all the time that I am immoral because I am an atheist. To me, that is an attack against me as a person. It's not that I don't kill/steal/rape etc that makes me immoral, but not believing in god? Apparently not believing in a supernatural entity makes me immoral. That is an attack on my person, not just my beliefs.

    Several Christians are spreading around lies. The lies that they are spreading around are SIMILAR to the ones they are spreading around 400 years ago. The lies then? The world is flat and is the center of the universe. The sun rotates around us. Claiming people are witches.. Forcing their beliefs on other people who does not believe in those beliefs..

    Now the lies in modern times.. The universe is only 6,000 years old.. We have so much proof that the universe and earth is millions of years old. I have talked with SO MANY CHRISTIANS who believe the universe is only 6,000 years old it is baffling. Evolution.. Christians don't believe in evolution and spread around that evolution is false. It is a theory for a reason. Now a theory has two separate meanings. A theory in psychological sense or a personal sense is a belief based on a guess. However, since evolution is a scientific theory, it uses the theory as a highly successful test of multiple different attributes. In fact, a hypothesis, which is step 2 in the scientific method, is formed from observation and is in part equal to a theory in the personal sense. However, a THEORY is deemed a theory as one step down from law. Law is more intensive then a theory is. A law is equal to a living entity is made of cells. That is a law since it shows that EVERYTHING is made of cells. The theory of evolution however, has been proven time and time again. However, since it goes against Christian preaching, many Christians proclaim that Evolution is a lie.
    I like differences. Without differences, our race could die out with a single virus that our genes arn't able to be protected from. The thing that makes humans so remarkable, is that we are so interwoven with our differences that we become immune to certain disease and pass on immunities to our offspring.
    So what does this mean?
    Verzen believes all people were created equal, this includes homosexuals and Canadians (or anyone else from a different country)
    Verzen likes differences
    Verzen loves education and hates ignorance
    Verzen believes that Religion spreads ignorance by telling people lies that interfere with their belief system

    Sound's like Verzen, even though he is opinionated, loves differences and wants to keep differences the way they are and to keep unification through belief out of the picture.
    If debate was removed from conversation, we wouldn't be as far as we are today
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  13. #12  
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    Also Sox - I live in the United States AND I have a master's degree... This means I have more education on the subject then you do. (See under my picture to the left of the page) This means I am more qualified on the subject. 8)
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  14. #13  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    Verzen believes that Religion spreads ignorance by telling people lies that interfere with their belief system
    And here we have according to Verzen's own substandard criteria for truth, an example of atheism spreading lies about religion (but even I draw a line at following his example of assuming he can tell everyone what someone else's motivations are).

    What is the lie? The lie is in this illogic that what some people in a group does is what the whole group does. Christianity as a whole, does not spread lies about evolution any more or less than atheism spreads lies about religion. It is only poor examples of both groups that do this spreading of lies thing.
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  15. #14  
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    Evolution goes directly against their doctrine.
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    Verzen you introduce this supposed cult of Christian Reconstructionists nobody takes seriously or has even heard of. Then you rant off at some Christians, as though they support the strawman, regardless that they both make a point of condemning it. This really is divisive of you.

    On the other hand I guess MM tried same by baiting you with communism. In your shoes I'd have wanted to correct his overboard treatment of it, so I'd assume the position of strawman's champion to MM's delight. But you're not that so it's okay.

    Sad that we only get along by keeping our sympathies to a defensible minimum.
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  17. #16  
    sox
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    (If you say that people who obey the bible are bad christians, then WHY the hell are you a christian if you don't follow the bible?!?)
    Do you think Jews and Christians are the same?

    Honestly verzen your ignorance of christianity is rediculous and a strong indication that you are attacking a group of people who's beliefs you haven't even tried to understand.

    Try a bit of research on the old and new covenant.


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  18. #17  
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    If you don't believe in the old testament, then why are there so many Christians who preach from it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    If you don't believe in the old testament, then why are there so many Christians who preach from it?
    The question only makes sense if "you" means "you Christians". It is really obvious to me Sox is supposed to identify with and defend the "you", only to have it loaded up by Verzen with the worst of some fantastic Christian sects.

    Verzen why don't you pick the fight with a real Christian Reconstructionist.
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  20. #19  
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    I like verzen. He is consistent in his beliefs and methodology which is typically and predictably that of the anti-religious atheist or agnostic.

    The methodology is that first you find some small splinter group which does not represent the whole or some ridiculous belief or act and then you ascribe those qualities to the whole as the basis of your objection. It is like dog haters who, based on the misdeeds of a few pit bulls, want to get rid of all pit bulls. Some go to the next step of wanting to ban other potentially dangerous breeds as well.

    The thing about verzen is that I think he is very typical of that group of people who plead for tolerance while having intolerances of their own, the main one being those who are less tolerant they they are. They have drawn their moral line and feel it is the moral line that all should follow, completely oblivious to the fact that others have drawn their own lines elsewhere which they think verzen should observe.

    verzen is tolerant of things which others are not while others are tolerant of things verzen is not tolerant of. I would not know what those things are exactly, only that this is prevalent throughout society. There is always someone who is more or less restrictive or tolerant than someone else. verzen would probably be shocked to learn that there are people who are far more tolerant than he is. Some people are so tolerant that they would hardly proscribe any action or practice.

    There is a large group of tolerance preachers to whom tolerance actually means acceptance. That is, if you are tolerant of homosexuality, say, then you must accede to all the wishes of the homosexual community. If you draw the line at marriage, you are intolerant. If you are tolerant of pornography but draw the line at kiddy porn, you are intolerant of pornography.

    In a free world, revisionists such as verzen holds up as a religious threat to society, have no chance of success. In a repressive society, you have the ability of Talibans and Al Qaedas to grow and thrive and assume control. But in a free society, you must also proscribe activities which are collectively considered to be detrimental to the peace and orderliness of that society. If there comes a time when most people feel that homosexual marriage is not disruptive, it will become and accepted practice. If there comes a time when people again feel abortion is disruptive, it will again be proscribed.

    Previous societies tolerated practices which we find repulsive such as putting people in with hungry lions, execution methods such as lopping off heads with axes or by guillotine, drawing and quartering while I'm sure we practice things they would have found repulsive.

    But to illustrate what I mean, verzen wrote:

    Also Sox - I live in the United States AND I have a master's degree... This means I have more education on the subject then you do. . . This means I am more qualified on the subject.
    I have a doctorate degree and far more education and experience than verzen and, therefore, am far better equipped and qualified to comment on these subjects than he is. We do have in common, however, poor proofreading habits.
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  21. #20  
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    That part was a joke.. I have a forum master's. =P

    I am very consistent with my beliefs. I think gay marriage should be accepted. Otherwise it is like telling anyone with any disability that they can't share the same rights as normal people.. which is bullshit! Personally, could you describe "kiddy porn" ? Because I describe porn as ANYTHING that deals with sex. If the child is naked in a meadow and the picture is done as art... that is NOT kiddy porn and should not be outlawed. There are many who might disagree, but lets look at the word for a moment..
    porn

    noun
    creative activity (writing or pictures or films etc.) of no literary or artistic value other than to stimulate sexual desire
    A child in a meadow isn't doing anything but standing there and unless you are a pedophile, it does NOT deal with stimulating sexual desire and thus it is not kiddy porn.

    So it's less of a line drawn and more of common sense and value that I follow. Many people want to outlaw gay marriage because, "It's always been that way." I call bullshit on that. Just because there has always been slavery doesn't make it OK... We evolve and adapt. Any intelligent individual knows that.
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  22. #21  
    sox
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    Gay marriage is ok if its a state-wedding.

    But it shouldnt be allowed if it's a religious wedding.*


    *Providing the religion says homosexual practices are wrong.

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  23. #22  
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    But Sox, that's the thing. The state is taking it in upon itself to ban homosexual marriage because of the church's nay saying.
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  24. #23  
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    verzen said:
    But Sox, that's the thing. The state is taking it in upon itself to ban homosexual marriage because of the church's nay saying.
    I sure hate to point this out, verzen, but you ARE the state. We are the walrus, goo-goog-a-joog.

    The state has not taken it upon "itself" to ban gay marriage. This is a practice which has never been approved by society and remains, in view of every election ever held on this matter in the United States, remains an unpopular idea. The only places where gay marriage is legal are states where an election on the matter cannot be taken (because they lack the right of referendum and recall) -- Connecticut and Massachusetts. In the only instances where the state has "taken it upon itself", the state has approved gay marriage.

    For someone with a "master's degree," you don't seem very well informed.
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  25. #24  
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    "Separation of Church and State" refers to, by no means should your religion dictate what you will or will not do or what others will or will not do in reference to the legality of the act in question.
    Religion cannot effect a decision that will effect others who may not share that belief. To restrict our freedom's based on a religion notion is in itself an illegal act that should be prosecuted to it's highest esteem.
    If I were to say that Hebrew's should be slaves like it says in the old testament, that would be considered an immoral law. The same goes for banning homosexuals because of another thing that the bible says.
    The bible also says it's OK to commit genocide as long as those individuals have sinned. Passing a law that allows committing genocide on another group is a religious reason and thus should not be followed. Religious reasons are very fallible for forming a code of conduct that a civil society should have.

    By saying that creationism should be taught along evolution is a religious motivated law and should be scrutinized. As long as my tax dollar's are paying for decisions the city make.. I demand that my tax dollars be spent on roads or utilities I may eventually use. There was a vote that passed to spend 1 million dollars repairing a church.
    That is a religiously motivated ruling and should be kept OUT of the government. People don't seem to understand that it is immoral to push your beliefs on other people. By allowing tax dollars to be spent on fixing a church, you are indirectly forcing what an individuals opinion of religion is. You are basically saying that everyone who pays taxes wont mind us fixing a church when in fact, quite a few of us do mind.
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  26. #25  
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    To add, Appeal to Majority isn't always right.. That's what makes it a Logical Fallacy.
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