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Thread: atheism: ?

  1. #1 atheism: ? 
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    ok so i started asking questions about this belife just around christmas, when the whole incident occured in a US shopping mall that some atheist placed a sign stating common atheist ideals right beside the "baby in a manger" display.


    the singe fact that the sing told me that they do not belive in god, devils, demons, angels and the what not , quickly brought the "arrogant humanism" title down on them, and i didnt think much more of it. since i've found this forum, i've looked it up,.... and yep, ... sure enough, it was. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism


    but here's where i get confused.
    is it really so hard to believe in a higher and/or stronger power?
    that carbon based life forms arnt the only way to exist?


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    Non-carbon based life forms CAN exist, but we havn't seen or witnessed any yet.
    But a higher power who sent his son down here to save us? Yeah thats a little far fetched. Especially when his son is the savior or what not and has shared multiple similarities with Horus and Dionysus.


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    The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!, there are known known's, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns!!
    just beacuse you cant see it doenst mean it's not there, it mearly means it doesnt want you to see it.

    an i didnt really ask weahter christianity was right or not, i asked why you cant believe in a higher power. why do your tenats decree that there absolutly are no gods, only humans?

    i think the connections with Dionysus may be a little far fetched them selves. as for Horus, this mearly seems to show that the basis of Theosophy is plausable.
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    Slayer, since this is a science forum, you must have evidence and observation to back up your claim. I have a hypothesis of what is called, "Unified Mind" where we are all directly linked by brain waves and that our brain can pick up various brain waves, dissect the information and transfer that information to thought. It is not a theory yet because I have no evidence. It is a good guess based off of observation of thought and how two people can have the same thought at the same time. However, I have no direct evidence for this yet. I havn't spent much time researching to see if this is a plausibility. Would you start believing in the Unified Mind? Why or why not? I wouldn't until there was substantial evidence backing up the claim. You don't just believe in something because you want to and expect it to be true.
    We do not live in a dream world. (as far as I can tell )

    So we can take your quote a bit further.

    The absence of elves does not mean there is evidence against their existence.

    Does that make sense to you? Just because no one has seen an elf doesn't mean it doesn't exist since you can't prove it doesn't exist! (You can't prove something does not exist btw)
    As for the second part of the quote,
    There are known knowns (This is true)
    There are NOT known unknowns (If something is known, then it is known. If it is not known, it is not known. It cant be a known unknown.)
    There are unknown unknowns (we are discovering things all the time)
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by slayer-72

    just beacuse you cant see it doenst mean it's not there, it mearly means it doesnt want you to see it.
    Would that also apply to leprechauns and unicorns?

    why do your tenats decree that there absolutly are no gods, only humans?
    Gods are based on ancient myths and superstitions. Do you believe in Zeus or Thor? Why or why not?
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  7. #6 Re: atheism: ? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by slayer-72
    but here's where i get confused.
    is it really so hard to believe in a higher and/or stronger power?
    It is hypothetically possible that a god might exist. But I'm not going to start believing that one exists until I see some evidence for it. Much like it's hypothetically possible that vampires might exist, but I'm not going to believe in them until I see some evidence.
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  8. #7  
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    I think some of those above responses are more agnostic than atheist. They dismiss God by lack of evidence.

    One may develop a philosophy in which God is irrelevant/impossible, and concept of God is a sweet figment of the human condition. In this case opposing a believer is like opposing that lady who keeps ten cats and loves them all. It would betray malevolence and lack of insight on the atheist's part.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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    however, if the believer's beliefs have a consequence in society on how non-believers are supposed to behave, then that sweet little lady with her ten cats is no longer so sweet and innocent
    this is doubly galling to an atheist because rules of behaviour are being imposed based on what the atheist sees as someone's figment of the imagination
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  10. #9  
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    Yup, then we have the pit bull owners with their misunderstood "puppies", or the antiquated bylaw that says every resident's got to trot out their mule on Sundays.

    But in religion forum I think some atheists cut too deep, just to exercise intolerance. In my view theists are wrong but largely for the right reasons, and ...certain atheists... are right but for the wrong reasons. They attack human nature and I wouldn't call them humanists.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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  11. #10  
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    you'll notice that i don't post here all too often + i don't envy mitchell's job of moderating this lot - far too much chance of flame wars
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong

    But in religion forum I think some atheists cut too deep, just to exercise intolerance. In my view theists are wrong but largely for the right reasons, and ...certain atheists... are right but for the wrong reasons. They attack human nature and I wouldn't call them humanists.
    Not really, it is the ideology of religion that is attacked, not humans. And, the ideologies are intolerable as they do not tolerate human nature or even human rights.
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by slayer-72
    an i didnt really ask weahter christianity was right or not, i asked why you cant believe in a higher power. why do your tenats decree that there absolutly are no gods, only humans?
    To answer for myself, it comes down to having some basis for morals. When I really looked into it, I found morals are irrational, arbitrary, innate. They appear to stand on nothing. A rational debate can always prove logically that any moral is useless nonsense. Rationally, life is meaningless. That's a problem atheists must solve, because atheists can't just suppose morals and meaning come down from God. And the dumb alternative of holding unexamined innate morals beneath a veil of rationality is really shabby... though sadly that's just what many atheists settle with.

    An atheist would do well to affirm morals, because they're innate anyway and a fact of life. You mentioned, slayer-72, non-carbon life and alternate possibilities. Maybe those with different morals or none, who knows. But we humans must live with what we have. Even if it's outdated ape crap we must live with it. That's arbitrary. Human morals are irrational and sometimes contradictory too. But no choice, it's us. So we take a leap of faith. That's my irrational humanist solution to atheism. Essentially, I worship human nature as the root of all right and wrong and meaning.

    Humanists generally stress their rationality as opposed to blind church doctrine. That made sense historically. And atheists generally conflate faith with theism. They shun faith. Why I have to stress irrational humanist atheism.

    Quote Originally Posted by slayer-72
    some atheist placed a sign stating common atheist ideals right beside the "baby in a manger" display.
    That was a half-baked atheist and I guess angry young man. His motives were confused. Any humanist can see what's really going on with baby Jesus icons and appreciate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Not really, it is the ideology of religion that is attacked, not humans. And, the ideologies are intolerable as they do not tolerate human nature or even human rights.
    Well I see a baby in the bathwater.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Well I see a baby in the bathwater.
    Unfortunately, the bathwater is putrid.
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