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Thread: Is it moral to teach children that there are talking snakes?

  1. #1 Is it moral to teach children that there are talking snakes? 
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    Is it moral to teach children that there are talking snakes?

    Much has been said of late about Jesus schools and other places where strange concepts of religion are taught. This breeds fundamentalism.

    Fundamentalism seems to be rather violent and yet as a society of living souls, we sit back and let it continue.

    No fundamental wing of a religion is beneficial. Yet most heads of those same religions are not as firm in reigning them in as they should be. Is any publicity good publicity as they say?

    I ask the above question as a moral issue.
    Is it right to withhold truth or lie to children in maters that will effect their lives in a profound way?

    If truth is of value should we not always give it as best we can?

    Regards
    DL


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  3. #2 Re: Is it moral to teach children that there are talking sna 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Is it moral to teach children that there are talking snakes?

    Much has been said of late about Jesus schools and other places where strange concepts of religion are taught. This breeds fundamentalism.

    Fundamentalism seems to be rather violent and yet as a society of living souls, we sit back and let it continue.

    No fundamental wing of a religion is beneficial. Yet most heads of those same religions are not as firm in reigning them in as they should be. Is any publicity good publicity as they say?

    I ask the above question as a moral issue.
    Is it right to withhold truth or lie to children in maters that will effect their lives in a profound way?

    If truth is of value should we not always give it as best we can?

    Regards
    DL
    so how do you exactly determine what is fundamental without being a fundamentalist ...?


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  4. #3 Re: Is it moral to teach children that there are talking sna 
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Is it moral to teach children that there are talking snakes?

    Much has been said of late about Jesus schools and other places where strange concepts of religion are taught. This breeds fundamentalism.

    Fundamentalism seems to be rather violent and yet as a society of living souls, we sit back and let it continue.

    No fundamental wing of a religion is beneficial. Yet most heads of those same religions are not as firm in reigning them in as they should be. Is any publicity good publicity as they say?

    I ask the above question as a moral issue.
    Is it right to withhold truth or lie to children in maters that will effect their lives in a profound way?

    If truth is of value should we not always give it as best we can?

    Regards
    DL
    so how do you exactly determine what is fundamental without being a fundamentalist ...?
    I stand on water. If I am right, I sink. If I am wrong and fundamentals are right then I float.

    Regards
    DL
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  5. #4 Re: Is it moral to teach children that there are talking sna 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    so how do you exactly determine what is fundamental without being a fundamentalist ...?

    I stand on water. If I am right, I sink. If I am wrong and fundamentals are right then I float.

    Regards
    DL
    So your fundamental is that all people in all circumstances must sink when standing on water
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  6. #5 Re: Is it moral to teach children that there are talking sna 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Is it right to withhold truth or lie to children in maters that will effect their lives in a profound way?
    Ah, there's the toughie.

    I must say yes, it is.

    Not just in a few matters either. Much of parenting is filtering. We protect children from tangible threats and discomforts, but also we observe the stage they're at, and feed them just what they can handle at that stage. Very much goes scrupulously unmentioned, because they just aren't ready for that kind of information. Kinda like baking a cake, all the ingredients must go in eventually but getting the steps or proportions wrong yields something other than cake.

    To extend the metaphor, I think we better cook good cake or cookie citizens, than half-baked individuals. For this reason I'm opposed to ...re-educating... religious-raised kids. Not in any way to nag their piece of mind and crack their moral foundation, I mean. Well, I'm coming from a multicultural not melting-pot society.

    On the other hand, I guess a "Jesus school" or let's face it "Taliban school" is not only hurtful to society by the eventual actions of the students, but abusive in the sense that it cripples children so they have few potentials in life. So we're obliged to keep them in check, and rule a minimum mainstream socialization. But how? I fear whatever we impose must be resented and got around anyway. And we can't move them with carrots, 'cause that would grow a church-state chimera.
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  7. #6 Re: Is it moral to teach children that there are talking sna 
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    so how do you exactly determine what is fundamental without being a fundamentalist ...?

    I stand on water. If I am right, I sink. If I am wrong and fundamentals are right then I float.

    Regards
    DL
    So your fundamental is that all people in all circumstances must sink when standing on water

    In a nutshell. What I think a fundamental christian is is one who believes that there are real talking snakes and other such foolish miracles.
    They also think that it is OK for God to use a genocidal flood on humans.
    All His works are perfect yet they pray for Him to return to fix His perfect works.

    Regards
    DL
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  8. #7 Re: Is it moral to teach children that there are talking sna 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Is it right to withhold truth or lie to children in maters that will effect their lives in a profound way?
    Ah, there's the toughie.

    I must say yes, it is.

    Not just in a few matters either. Much of parenting is filtering. We protect children from tangible threats and discomforts, but also we observe the stage they're at, and feed them just what they can handle at that stage. Very much goes scrupulously unmentioned, because they just aren't ready for that kind of information. Kinda like baking a cake, all the ingredients must go in eventually but getting the steps or proportions wrong yields something other than cake.

    To extend the metaphor, I think we better cook good cake or cookie citizens, than half-baked individuals. For this reason I'm opposed to ...re-educating... religious-raised kids. Not in any way to nag their piece of mind and crack their moral foundation, I mean. Well, I'm coming from a multicultural not melting-pot society.

    On the other hand, I guess a "Jesus school" or let's face it "Taliban school" is not only hurtful to society by the eventual actions of the students, but abusive in the sense that it cripples children so they have few potentials in life. So we're obliged to keep them in check, and rule a minimum mainstream socialization. But how? I fear whatever we impose must be resented and got around anyway. And we can't move them with carrots, 'cause that would grow a church-state chimera.
    A firm yes or no is always nice to see. Your choice is of course the right cousre.

    Regards
    DL
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  9. #8 Re: Is it moral to teach children that there are talking sna 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    so how do you exactly determine what is fundamental without being a fundamentalist ...?

    I stand on water. If I am right, I sink. If I am wrong and fundamentals are right then I float.

    Regards
    DL
    So your fundamental is that all people in all circumstances must sink when standing on water

    In a nutshell. What I think a fundamental christian is is one who believes that there are real talking snakes and other such foolish miracles.
    They also think that it is OK for God to use a genocidal flood on humans.
    All His works are perfect yet they pray for Him to return to fix His perfect works.

    Regards
    DL
    you might want to take a lokk at "fideism" on wiki
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  10. #9 Re: Is it moral to teach children that there are talking sna 
    Time Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    a fundamental christian
    fideism
    In my experience, fundies have the least sophisticated understanding of faith (besides atheists :P ), as they bandy that word "faith" apparently at random, and even insist their "faith" is logical and scientific. A fideist by definition must have good grasp of faith, what it is and isn't.

    But maybe one can run with fideism even in ignorance? :?
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  11. #10 Re: Is it moral to teach children that there are talking sna 
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    so how do you exactly determine what is fundamental without being a fundamentalist ...?

    I stand on water. If I am right, I sink. If I am wrong and fundamentals are right then I float.

    Regards
    DL
    So your fundamental is that all people in all circumstances must sink when standing on water

    In a nutshell. What I think a fundamental christian is is one who believes that there are real talking snakes and other such foolish miracles.
    They also think that it is OK for God to use a genocidal flood on humans.
    All His works are perfect yet they pray for Him to return to fix His perfect works.

    Regards
    DL
    you might want to take a lokk at "fideism" on wiki
    I hate to label myself. Labels are often misunderstood. Just like, fundamentals. Even in those ranks, some seem to be discarding belief in talking snakes and the idea that the Bible is the WORD. There is hope for some of them. Thank God.

    Regards
    DL
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  12. #11  
    Forum Sophomore Total Science's Avatar
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    I've only lived for 33 years and I haven't observed that many snakes during that time.

    If evolution is correct, then over billions of years one would expect snakes to evolve speech just as humans allegedly did.

    I have only observed the biology of one planet, however there may be talking snakes on hundreds of planets.
    "The most likely site for error is in the most fundamental of our beliefs." -- Samuel Warren Carey, geologist, 1988
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  13. #12  
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    If evolution is correct, then over billions of years one would expect snakes to evolve speech just as humans allegedly did.
    See? Not only very simplistic, but wrong.

    As to the OP: What can we really do about it? I'd be happy if evolution is taught as the part of the science (biology) curriculum, but would also not mind an optional religious studies class. This class would cover the major world religions, which should include an unbiased scholarly analysis as well. That way children can have a balanced partial exposure to how people think in the real world IMO.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    If evolution is correct, then over billions of years one would expect snakes to evolve speech just as humans allegedly did.
    See? Not only very simplistic, but wrong.

    As to the OP: What can we really do about it? I'd be happy if evolution is taught as the part of the science (biology) curriculum, but would also not mind an optional religious studies class. This class would cover the major world religions, which should include an unbiased scholarly analysis as well. That way children can have a balanced partial exposure to how people think in the real world IMO.
    Many want to take religion out of school.

    I believe that the more religious education there is the better it is.

    Always keeping in mind the ages involved and how God is presented.

    To present God as the genocide using maniac depicted in literal reading of scripture is just too stupid to consider.

    This seems to be the God that the Jesus schools want their children to venerate.
    Hard to love a God that creates souls just to have most, if not all, rot in hell.


    Regards
    DL
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    If evolution is correct, then over billions of years one would expect snakes to evolve speech just as humans allegedly did.
    See? Not only very simplistic, but wrong.

    As to the OP: What can we really do about it? I'd be happy if evolution is taught as the part of the science (biology) curriculum, but would also not mind an optional religious studies class. This class would cover the major world religions, which should include an unbiased scholarly analysis as well. That way children can have a balanced partial exposure to how people think in the real world IMO.
    I have to tell you that I wish I had more of your personality.

    I had chosen to ignore this person out of hand because I saw such little to work with in terms of him recognizing that his comment was all wrong.

    I hope you prove me wrong.

    Good luck.

    Regards
    DL
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