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Thread: God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them.

  1. #1 God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them. 
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    God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them.

    Many think that God can work miracles.

    Looking about the world today many see evil happening everywhere. Children starving as the highest evil, all of us sinning as a lower evil.

    I suggest that if a miracle working God is in existence and does nothing then He is acting in an immoral way. He should not be followed.

    Debate.

    Is God moral or immoral for allowing the world to just go along in evil?

    Regards
    DL


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  3. #2  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
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    If God can see all time, our existence is nothing. Yet, that said, He may be working miracles, just that we can't see them.


    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    If God can see all time, our existence is nothing. Yet, that said, He may be working miracles, just that we can't see them.
    No one sees mine either.

    Regards
    DL
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  5. #4 Re: God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them.

    Many think that God can work miracles.

    Looking about the world today many see evil happening everywhere. Children starving as the highest evil, all of us sinning as a lower evil.

    I suggest that if a miracle working God is in existence and does nothing then He is acting in an immoral way. He should not be followed.

    Debate.

    Is God moral or immoral for allowing the world to just go along in evil?

    Regards
    DL
    this argument of god being immoral only makes sense if one works out of the premise that this is the best of all possible worlds
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  6. #5 Re: God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them.

    Many think that God can work miracles.

    Looking about the world today many see evil happening everywhere. Children starving as the highest evil, all of us sinning as a lower evil.

    I suggest that if a miracle working God is in existence and does nothing then He is acting in an immoral way. He should not be followed.

    Debate.

    Is God moral or immoral for allowing the world to just go along in evil?

    Regards
    DL
    this argument of god being immoral only makes sense if one works out of the premise that this is the best of all possible worlds
    If one believes that God created this world then one must believe that it is just as perfect as the rest of His creations.
    I believe this world to be perfect but few agree with me. Few see it. They point to evil and say that we somehow can thwart God's perfect works. To me this gives us more power than God. They do not see this.

    God is not immoral. He would be if He has miracles to play with. He does not. If He did and did not use them, then He definitely would be. I find it rather strange that most of the miracles shown in scripture is where God is hurting man. There are certainly places where He helps us but it is mostly helping us to kill other men. Strange.

    Regards
    DL
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  7. #6 Re: God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am

    If one believes that God created this world then one must believe that it is just as perfect as the rest of His creations.
    why is that?
    Even in ordinary affairs we may see that a government will build a recreational park and a jail
    I believe this world to be perfect but few agree with me. Few see it. They point to evil and say that we somehow can thwart God's perfect works. To me this gives us more power than God. They do not see this.
    the imperfection of this world is that we have to suffer through the agencies of birth, death, old age and disease. The question is, why do we have to suffer

    God is not immoral. He would be if He has miracles to play with. He does not. If He did and did not use them, then He definitely would be. I find it rather strange that most of the miracles shown in scripture is where God is hurting man. There are certainly places where He helps us but it is mostly helping us to kill other men. Strange.

    Regards
    DL
    in short, it is not possible for an entity to be all powerful and not have recourse to punishment ... of course there is more to possession of power than punishment too.....[/quote]
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  8. #7 Re: God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am

    If one believes that God created this world then one must believe that it is just as perfect as the rest of His creations.
    why is that?
    Even in ordinary affairs we may see that a government will build a recreational park and a jail
    I believe this world to be perfect but few agree with me. Few see it. They point to evil and say that we somehow can thwart God's perfect works. To me this gives us more power than God. They do not see this.
    the imperfection of this world is that we have to suffer through the agencies of birth, death, old age and disease. The question is, why do we have to suffer

    God is not immoral. He would be if He has miracles to play with. He does not. If He did and did not use them, then He definitely would be. I find it rather strange that most of the miracles shown in scripture is where God is hurting man. There are certainly places where He helps us but it is mostly helping us to kill other men. Strange.

    Regards
    DL
    in short, it is not possible for an entity to be all powerful and not have recourse to punishment ... of course there is more to possession of power than punishment too.....
    [/quote]

    Greatest I am wrote:

    If one believes that God created this world then one must believe that it is just as perfect as the rest of His creations.


    why is that?

    To say otherwise would see God creating perfection some times and not at others. Scripture says that all His works are perfect. Never an oops is to cross God’s lips.

    You wrote
    “ the imperfection of this world is that we have to suffer through the agencies of birth, death, old age and disease. The question is, why do we have to suffer “

    We are part of nature and are animals. What animal do you know that does not go through these agencies. Are we to discard our naturalness somehow? All natural systems are bound to good and evil.

    You wrote
    “in short, it is not possible for an entity to be all powerful and not have recourse to punishment ... of course there is more to possession of power than punishment too..…”


    Would an all knowing perfect father ever have to punish?

    Violence begins where intelligence fails.

    Regards
    DL
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  9. #8 Re: God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them.

    Many think that God can work miracles.

    Looking about the world today many see evil happening everywhere. Children starving as the highest evil, all of us sinning as a lower evil.

    I suggest that if a miracle working God is in existence and does nothing then He is acting in an immoral way. He should not be followed.

    Debate.

    Is God moral or immoral for allowing the world to just go along in evil?

    Regards
    DL
    this argument of god being immoral only makes sense if one works out of the premise that this is the best of all possible worlds
    Deuteronomy 32:4
    He is the Rock, his work is perfect:

    Will you stand before God and tell Him that this is not so?
    Will you point out to Him where He has goofed?

    Regards
    DL
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  10. #9  
    Forum Ph.D. verzen's Avatar
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    I wonder if miracles are a commodity. "I'll trade one soul for a miracle" for instance.
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  11. #10 Re: God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them.

    Many think that God can work miracles.

    Looking about the world today many see evil happening everywhere. Children starving as the highest evil, all of us sinning as a lower evil.

    I suggest that if a miracle working God is in existence and does nothing then He is acting in an immoral way. He should not be followed.

    Debate.

    Is God moral or immoral for allowing the world to just go along in evil?

    Regards
    DL
    this argument of god being immoral only makes sense if one works out of the premise that this is the best of all possible worlds
    Deuteronomy 32:4
    He is the Rock, his work is perfect:

    Will you stand before God and tell Him that this is not so?
    Will you point out to Him where He has goofed?

    Regards
    DL
    For one great, if I was the creator, I wouldn't put the play place next to the sewage, that's just unhealthy. Second, the eyes work at 20% proficiency. Not 100% proficiency.. why is this? Our hearing is also not perfect. Dog's can hear things we can't.
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  12. #11 Re: God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them.

    Many think that God can work miracles.

    Looking about the world today many see evil happening everywhere. Children starving as the highest evil, all of us sinning as a lower evil.

    I suggest that if a miracle working God is in existence and does nothing then He is acting in an immoral way. He should not be followed.

    Debate.

    Is God moral or immoral for allowing the world to just go along in evil?

    Regards
    DL
    this argument of god being immoral only makes sense if one works out of the premise that this is the best of all possible worlds
    Deuteronomy 32:4
    He is the Rock, his work is perfect:

    Will you stand before God and tell Him that this is not so?
    Will you point out to Him where He has goofed?

    Regards
    DL
    For one great, if I was the creator, I wouldn't put the play place next to the sewage, that's just unhealthy. Second, the eyes work at 20% proficiency. Not 100% proficiency.. why is this? Our hearing is also not perfect. Dog's can hear things we can't.
    Fish also breath under water. Does that mean we should? Every animal has what it takes to survive. They do not think as well as we, does that mean that they are all deficient?

    Regards
    DL
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  13. #12 Re: God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am

    Greatest I am wrote:

    If one believes that God created this world then one must believe that it is just as perfect as the rest of His creations.


    why is that?

    To say otherwise would see God creating perfection some times and not at others. Scripture says that all His works are perfect. Never an oops is to cross God’s lips.
    would prisoners experience discomfort in a perfectly constructed prison?

    You wrote
    “ the imperfection of this world is that we have to suffer through the agencies of birth, death, old age and disease. The question is, why do we have to suffer “

    We are part of nature and are animals.
    Actually all life is part of nature and spirit
    What animal do you know that does not go through these agencies. Are we to discard our naturalness somehow? All natural systems are bound to good and evil.
    The idea is that we give up that part of us that has the tendency to exploit god's creation (and which by default, lands us an existence as an "animal" of some sort or other) - in one sense, perhaps you could describe this material world as giving facility for evil (namely the expression of the desire to be separate from god).

    When we are finished with that desire, we begin re-connecting to god through loving surrender.

    It's that simple.
    You wrote
    “in short, it is not possible for an entity to be all powerful and not have recourse to punishment ... of course there is more to possession of power than punishment too..…”


    Would an all knowing perfect father ever have to punish?
    if the children have free will, most certainly

    Violence begins where intelligence fails.
    hence it is our intelligence that has failed
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  14. #13 Re: God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    this argument of god being immoral only makes sense if one works out of the premise that this is the best of all possible worlds
    Deuteronomy 32:4
    He is the Rock, his work is perfect:

    Will you stand before God and tell Him that this is not so?
    Will you point out to Him where He has goofed?

    Regards
    DL[/quote]
    this world is perfect

    It is perfectly set up to frustrate all attempts to find happiness separate from god.

    Imagine if a person got a 40 year jail sentence and was ecstatic "Cool! Free food and free rent! And those clothes are just like the greatest!"
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  15. #14 Re: God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them. 
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    [quote="verzen"]

    For one great, if I was the creator, I wouldn't put the play place next to the sewage, that's just unhealthy.[quote]
    If you think that part is all about play, I think you are in for a few surprises that could be detrimental to your health....

    Second, the eyes work at 20% proficiency. Not 100% proficiency.. why is this?
    maybe you require to experience the superior existence of a vulture

    Our hearing is also not perfect. Dog's can hear things we can't.
    maybe you require to experience the superior existence of a dog

    There are certain special qualities about being a human. There are also special qualities about being a vulture, dog, ant or lemon tree.

    I guess its all simply about what you want out of life
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  16. #15  
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    punarmusiko


    “would prisoners experience discomfort in a perfectly constructed prison?”

    That would depend on the cook.


    “The idea is that we give up that part of us that has the tendency to exploit god's creation (and which by default, lands us an existence as an "animal" of some sort or other) - in one sense, perhaps you could describe this material world as giving facility for evil (namely the expression of the desire to be separate from god). “

    If we do not exploit other parts of nature we would die.
    We are never anything other than human animals. No cat or pig.
    Ask anyone if they want to be separated from God. No one will likely say yes. Once born, no one can get away from Him. He does not lose any souls. There is no hell only heaven.

    I wrote
    Would an all knowing perfect father ever have to punish?

    You wrote
    if the children have free will, most certainly

    Punish, never. Discipline, yes. Teach, yes. Consequences, yes.


    “It is perfectly set up to frustrate all attempts to find happiness separate from god.”

    I know many that are happy GOOD people that do not follow a God. God is pleased as long as they have good hearts.

    Regards
    DL
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  17. #16  
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    GIA

    [quote="Greatest I am"]punarmusiko


    “would prisoners experience discomfort in a perfectly constructed prison?”

    That would depend on the cook.[quote]
    a bad cook could make jail worse ....

    “The idea is that we give up that part of us that has the tendency to exploit god's creation (and which by default, lands us an existence as an "animal" of some sort or other) - in one sense, perhaps you could describe this material world as giving facility for evil (namely the expression of the desire to be separate from god). “

    If we do not exploit other parts of nature we would die.
    thus we have recourse to sacrifice to avoid being sinful

    BG 3.13 The devotees of the Lord are released from all kinds of sins because they eat food which is offered first for sacrifice. Others, who prepare food for personal sense enjoyment, verily eat only sin.


    We are never anything other than human animals. No cat or pig.
    after we lose the human form of life, the stakes are quite open

    Ask anyone if they want to be separated from God. No one will likely say yes. Once born, no one can get away from Him. He does not lose any souls. There is no hell only heaven.
    then what is cancer, taxes, child mortality and anything else an atheist could pin you down with, doing in hell?

    The desire to be separate from god manifests in the desire to have a domain that god doesn't interfere with or is duty bound to provide in bountiful qualities. IOW it's no coincidence that religious neophytes are embroiled in issues of wealth acquisition, what to speak of the outright atheistic ...
    I wrote
    Would an all knowing perfect father ever have to punish?

    You wrote
    if the children have free will, most certainly

    Punish, never. Discipline, yes. Teach, yes. Consequences, yes.
    so what models of discipline are there that don't have recourse to punishment?

    “It is perfectly set up to frustrate all attempts to find happiness separate from god.”

    I know many that are happy GOOD people that do not follow a God.
    not all happiness is equal

    God is pleased as long as they have good hearts.
    a good heart being?
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  18. #17  
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    [quote="punarmusiko"]GIA

    [quote="Greatest I am"]punarmusiko


    “would prisoners experience discomfort in a perfectly constructed prison?”

    That would depend on the cook.
    a bad cook could make jail worse ....

    “The idea is that we give up that part of us that has the tendency to exploit god's creation (and which by default, lands us an existence as an "animal" of some sort or other) - in one sense, perhaps you could describe this material world as giving facility for evil (namely the expression of the desire to be separate from god). “

    If we do not exploit other parts of nature we would die.
    thus we have recourse to sacrifice to avoid being sinful

    BG 3.13 The devotees of the Lord are released from all kinds of sins because they eat food which is offered first for sacrifice. Others, who prepare food for personal sense enjoyment, verily eat only sin.


    We are never anything other than human animals. No cat or pig.
    after we lose the human form of life, the stakes are quite open

    Ask anyone if they want to be separated from God. No one will likely say yes. Once born, no one can get away from Him. He does not lose any souls. There is no hell only heaven.
    then what is cancer, taxes, child mortality and anything else an atheist could pin you down with, doing in hell?

    The desire to be separate from god manifests in the desire to have a domain that god doesn't interfere with or is duty bound to provide in bountiful qualities. IOW it's no coincidence that religious neophytes are embroiled in issues of wealth acquisition, what to speak of the outright atheistic ...
    I wrote
    Would an all knowing perfect father ever have to punish?

    You wrote
    if the children have free will, most certainly

    Punish, never. Discipline, yes. Teach, yes. Consequences, yes.
    so what models of discipline are there that don't have recourse to punishment?

    “It is perfectly set up to frustrate all attempts to find happiness separate from god.”

    I know many that are happy GOOD people that do not follow a God.
    not all happiness is equal

    God is pleased as long as they have good hearts.
    a good heart being?
    Give me a break. If you do not yet know what someone means when they say a good heart then go away.

    If our language is so far apart that I need to define that term then I have no time for you.

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am

    Give me a break. If you do not yet know what someone means when they say a good heart then go away.

    If our language is so far apart that I need to define that term then I have no time for you.

    Regards
    DL
    there's more to being properly god conscious than having a composed surety of one's good intentions ...... if you don't believe me just take a stroll into your nearest new age convention
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    8) May I add my conclusion as an atheist ? ...

    Thank you.

    "Do not worry, God does not exists and all evil you see is by pure nature. Either from man or from the Earth. Whilst God does not exist, he can not perform miracles."

    ... yes ? ... understood ?
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollyon
    8) May I add my conclusion as an atheist ? ...

    Thank you.

    "Do not worry, God does not exists and all evil you see is by pure nature. Either from man or from the Earth. Whilst God does not exist, he can not perform miracles."

    ... yes ? ... understood ?
    We agree that there is no miracle working God.
    I know that there is an entity that we call God. It is a cosmic conscience. Our next evolution.

    Consider, God as concept and entity was thought of by all peoples all over the world. Even those in isolation. They seemed to know that reality was stranger than could be seen and called it God and tried to define it. Badly I know but they still all pointed at something that they believed enough to sacrifice to and to put much labor and resources to. How would you explain this and what do you do with a guy like me who says he had a personal experience that turned a staunch non believer into as believer.

    Please, no words like insane or dilusional.

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    We agree that there is no miracle working God.
    I know that there is an entity that we call God. It is a cosmic conscience. Our next evolution.
    Okee, ik know, there is not. Maybe I believe in it, but you can not know. You do not know that. You believe in it.

    So, God does not do miracles ... okee ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Consider, God as concept and entity was thought of by all peoples all over the world. Even those in isolation. They seemed to know that reality was stranger than could be seen and called it God and tried to define it. Badly I know but they still all pointed at something that they believed enough to sacrifice to and to put much labor and resources to. How would you explain this and what do you do with a guy like me who says he had a personal experience that turned a staunch non believer into as believer.
    They did not understand nature, so they 'invented Gods'. On remote Pascific Islands they worshipped airplanes as Gods, as Americans prepared attacking Japan. The Islanders did not understand airplanes, so they became Gods.

    "How would you explain this and what do you do with a guy like me who says he had a personal experience."

    I don't know which, so I can not tell you what I think of it. My experiences are also rather weird. I agree, some things can not be explaind by sciense for now ! I think in circumstances, telepathy could be possible, as brains sends signals. I can even go as far as 'energie is not lost and leaks through dimensions'. But would that mean there is a God and as energie is never lost, there is an after-life ?

    Certainly not.

    And at least you think, so I won't call you any names, you might dislike. There is no God and even if you would call 'lifeforce' God, it would still not be God, just some force as gravity, no more, no less.
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    Apollyon


    When you say God you are talking of a miracle working God. Mine is not.

    As to believe or know, if you see your hand you know it is there. You also believe it is there. What I saw I believe.

    I do recognize that personal beliefs are hard to change. Even my own sons, with my wife’s testimony, and love and a belief that she would not lie to them, are skeptical. So was I till it happened.

    All I can ask is that you keep an open mind on all maters while being skeptical. I did and it paid off. It may for you as well.
    If all issues were resolved by us, what would keep out children busy.

    The world is stranger than we think.

    Regards
    DL
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  24. #23 Re: God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them.

    Many think that God can work miracles.

    Looking about the world today many see evil happening everywhere. Children starving as the highest evil, all of us sinning as a lower evil.

    I suggest that if a miracle working God is in existence and does nothing then He is acting in an immoral way. He should not be followed.

    Debate.

    Is God moral or immoral for allowing the world to just go along in evil?

    Regards
    DL

    Thought provoking post. I think anyone who is labeled "evil" is moral from his point of view. The road to hell is often paved with good intentions.

    When I read Genesis, god tended to say everything was "good." I don't recall any mention of evil. What we might view as evil, God might view as good. It is hard to imagine, however, that God would find starving kids a good thing.

    God created preditor and prey and the atrocities that resulted for the purpose of ecological balance, so there may be a greater good that we don't see when we look at what we deem "evil."
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  25. #24 Re: God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by williampinn
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them.

    Many think that God can work miracles.

    Looking about the world today many see evil happening everywhere. Children starving as the highest evil, all of us sinning as a lower evil.

    I suggest that if a miracle working God is in existence and does nothing then He is acting in an immoral way. He should not be followed.

    Debate.

    Is God moral or immoral for allowing the world to just go along in evil?

    Regards
    DL
    All evils the involve humans are always justified by the perpetrator. Even if the only justification left is I was just stupid. Hitler probably said he was right but just at the wrong time.

    If humans are not involved thought then nothing is evil. Only man can discern.

    Regards
    DL

    Thought provoking post. I think anyone who is labeled "evil" is moral from his point of view. The road to hell is often paved with good intentions.

    When I read Genesis, god tended to say everything was "good." I don't recall any mention of evil. What we might view as evil, God might view as good. It is hard to imagine, however, that God would find starving kids a good thing.

    God created preditor and prey and the atrocities that resulted for the purpose of ecological balance, so there may be a greater good that we don't see when we look at what we deem "evil."
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  26. #25 Re: God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them.

    Many think that God can work miracles.

    Looking about the world today many see evil happening everywhere. Children starving as the highest evil, all of us sinning as a lower evil.

    I suggest that if a miracle working God is in existence and does nothing then He is acting in an immoral way. He should not be followed.

    Debate.

    Is God moral or immoral for allowing the world to just go along in evil?

    Regards
    DL
    The Devil is evil, God is good.
    God's creation are fearfully made. Yet, we are imperfect, why, because we choose to be. We try to be perfect by doing imperfect things.
    Why do we train Marines? To make good fighters. Not all can be a Marine, some fell. Some make it, the ones that do train hard, and its painful, but at the end they appreciate it.
    Why do we suffer, because we must be refined, without suffering, you become a brat if you would. Suffering makes you buckle down and cry, it makes you want to help, it makes you mad, but it also gives you a sense of accomplishment when you step up when you see some one else suffering, and help them.
    Without suffering you would not know the true meaning and feeling of love, and compassion. If you cannot learn from suffering, then you cannot advance to the next world which is perfect.

    The world goes evil because it choose to, if God stops all the evil, then our freewill no longer exist and we become robots, no better than machines.

    Everyday, we have many paths to go down, we can choose which path to walk.

    Life is hard, with or without God, its hard. 8)
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  27. #26 Re: God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelfire
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them.

    Many think that God can work miracles.

    Looking about the world today many see evil happening everywhere. Children starving as the highest evil, all of us sinning as a lower evil.

    I suggest that if a miracle working God is in existence and does nothing then He is acting in an immoral way. He should not be followed.

    Debate.

    Is God moral or immoral for allowing the world to just go along in evil?

    Regards
    DL
    The Devil is evil, God is good.
    God's creation are fearfully made. Yet, we are imperfect, why, because we choose to be. We try to be perfect by doing imperfect things.
    Why do we train Marines? To make good fighters. Not all can be a Marine, some fell. Some make it, the ones that do train hard, and its painful, but at the end they appreciate it.
    Why do we suffer, because we must be refined, without suffering, you become a brat if you would. Suffering makes you buckle down and cry, it makes you want to help, it makes you mad, but it also gives you a sense of accomplishment when you step up when you see some one else suffering, and help them.
    Without suffering you would not know the true meaning and feeling of love, and compassion. If you cannot learn from suffering, then you cannot advance to the next world which is perfect.

    The world goes evil because it choose to, if God stops all the evil, then our freewill no longer exist and we become robots, no better than machines.

    Everyday, we have many paths to go down, we can choose which path to walk.

    Life is hard, with or without God, its hard. 8)
    What does not kill you makes you strong.

    "if God stops all the evil, then our freewill no longer exist"

    True to a point.
    I look about and see perfection and yet my free will roams as it pleases. So does yours. I digress.

    It is the knowledge of a thing that makes it real.
    It is the knowledge of evil that brought on the so called fall. Actually a glorious leap.
    They were not expelled because of evil as a done deal. They just graduated.

    If we had concrete proof of a miracle then we could likely make them real.

    Regards
    DL
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  28. #27 Re: God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by williampinn
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    God is evil if He has miracles and does not use them.

    Many think that God can work miracles.

    Looking about the world today many see evil happening everywhere. Children starving as the highest evil, all of us sinning as a lower evil.

    I suggest that if a miracle working God is in existence and does nothing then He is acting in an immoral way. He should not be followed.

    Debate.

    Is God moral or immoral for allowing the world to just go along in evil?

    Regards
    DL

    Thought provoking post. I think anyone who is labeled "evil" is moral from his point of view. The road to hell is often paved with good intentions.

    When I read Genesis, god tended to say everything was "good." I don't recall any mention of evil. What we might view as evil, God might view as good. It is hard to imagine, however, that God would find starving kids a good thing.

    A miracle worker would not and would act.

    God created predator and prey and the atrocities that resulted for the purpose of ecological balance, so there may be a greater good that we don't see when we look at what we deem "evil."
    In the bush where I hunt, there are no atrocities.

    IE; rabbits have their cycle with the fox. Lots of rabbits for seven years. The next many fox, the next fewer rabbits, the next fewer fox, the next many rabbits and on and on.

    What is atrocious here.

    Regards
    DL
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollyon
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    We agree that there is no miracle working God.
    I know that there is an entity that we call God. It is a cosmic conscience. Our next evolution.
    Okee, ik know, there is not. Maybe I believe in it, but you can not know. You do not know that. You believe in it.

    So, God does not do miracles ... okee ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Consider, God as concept and entity was thought of by all peoples all over the world. Even those in isolation. They seemed to know that reality was stranger than could be seen and called it God and tried to define it. Badly I know but they still all pointed at something that they believed enough to sacrifice to and to put much labor and resources to. How would you explain this and what do you do with a guy like me who says he had a personal experience that turned a staunch non believer into as believer.
    They did not understand nature, so they 'invented Gods'. On remote Pascific Islands they worshipped airplanes as Gods, as Americans prepared attacking Japan. The Islanders did not understand airplanes, so they became Gods.

    "How would you explain this and what do you do with a guy like me who says he had a personal experience."

    I don't know which, so I can not tell you what I think of it. My experiences are also rather weird. I agree, some things can not be explaind by sciense for now ! I think in circumstances, telepathy could be possible, as brains sends signals. I can even go as far as 'energie is not lost and leaks through dimensions'. But would that mean there is a God and as energie is never lost, there is an after-life ?

    Certainly not.

    And at least you think, so I won't call you any names, you might dislike. There is no God and even if you would call 'lifeforce' God, it would still not be God, just some force as gravity, no more, no less.
    "They did not understand nature, so they 'invented Gods'"

    If man did not understand nature then you had better let us all know because we are in every niche on earth.

    As to names, Fundamentals already think I am Satan's spawn. It don't get no better than this.

    If the geeks are quick enough they may add lie detection to the net and we will chat of real laws again.

    The one thing about telepathy is that as the world gets more civilized, the emotion that creates the ability is reduced. It might evolve itself out of us. I say us as in all of us.

    Regards
    DL
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