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Thread: Believers of reincarnation. Are we in Heaven and just slummi

  1. #1 Believers of reincarnation. Are we in Heaven and just slummi 
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    Believers of reincarnation. Are we in Heaven and just slumming in Hell?

    Many believe that our conscience or essence chooses to return here. Some to learn and get closer to Nirvana. Some for the myriad of other dreams.

    If so, why is philosophy not improving?

    Religions and secular government rule our lives. Both offer philosophies but neither is adequate for our tastes. Neither gives us peace and security.

    Over time and many generations, is there not one soul in heaven that would like to come back with some words of wisdom.

    Let us debate the question, are philosophy and or religion and souls improving?

    Regards
    DL


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  3. #2  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIA
    Over time and many generations, is there not one soul in heaven that would like to come back with some words of wisdom.
    Well, my modern day definition of heaven and hell is the billionairs and the minimum age earners and soldiers as reprenting heaven and hell.

    So what you are asking is whether these billionaires would like to step down to go and work in the fast food stores working over those hot stoves or the other option of going to Iraq.

    Their words of wisdom would be "invent something" or learn how to beat the stock market which nowadays is a bad option.

    Cosmo


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  4. #3 Re: Believers of reincarnation. Are we in Heaven and just sl 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Believers of reincarnation. Are we in Heaven and just slumming in Hell?
    more or less
    Many believe that our conscience or essence chooses to return here. Some to learn and get closer to Nirvana. Some for the myriad of other dreams.

    If so, why is philosophy not improving?
    I guess we have a greater margin in the "myriad of dreams" category
    Religions and secular government rule our lives. Both offer philosophies but neither is adequate for our tastes. Neither gives us peace and security.
    hence one of the first things one will encounter in comprehending (most) religious scripture is that there is no (material) peace and security in the material world
    Over time and many generations, is there not one soul in heaven that would like to come back with some words of wisdom.
    while the number of scripture and scriptural commentaries may not outnumber newspapers of the world, there is still quite a reasonably sized body of work to assimilate

    Let us debate the question, are philosophy and or religion and souls improving?
    philosophy has kind of been waylaid in the public arena .... perhaps now it is dawning on us that we can't expect to continue on treating the planet as if our mother is going to clean up after us ..... perhaps this will catalyze some sort of "improvement"
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmo
    Quote Originally Posted by GIA
    Over time and many generations, is there not one soul in heaven that would like to come back with some words of wisdom.
    Well, my modern day definition of heaven and hell is the billionairs and the minimum age earners and soldiers as reprenting heaven and hell.

    So what you are asking is whether these billionaires would like to step down to go and work in the fast food stores working over those hot stoves or the other option of going to Iraq.

    Their words of wisdom would be "invent something" or learn how to beat the stock market which nowadays is a bad option.

    Cosmo
    I was looking for words of wisdom. Not those that put money in a pocket.

    Regards
    DL
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  6. #5 Re: Believers of reincarnation. Are we in Heaven and just sl 
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Believers of reincarnation. Are we in Heaven and just slumming in Hell?
    more or less
    Many believe that our conscience or essence chooses to return here. Some to learn and get closer to Nirvana. Some for the myriad of other dreams.

    If so, why is philosophy not improving?
    I guess we have a greater margin in the "myriad of dreams" category
    Religions and secular government rule our lives. Both offer philosophies but neither is adequate for our tastes. Neither gives us peace and security.
    hence one of the first things one will encounter in comprehending (most) religious scripture is that there is no (material) peace and security in the material world
    I know. Churches try hard to make us dependent on their particular God. keeps the priests employed. Even if they have to B S us with talking snakes.

    Over time and many generations, is there not one soul in heaven that would like to come back with some words of wisdom.
    while the number of scripture and scriptural commentaries may not outnumber newspapers of the world, there is still quite a reasonably sized body of work to assimilate
    Like this one.

    Deuteronomy 21
    18If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
    19Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
    20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
    21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

    Let us debate the question, are philosophy and or religion and souls improving?
    philosophy has kind of been waylaid in the public arena .... perhaps now it is dawning on us that we can't expect to continue on treating the planet as if our mother is going to clean up after us ..... perhaps this will catalyze some sort of "improvement"
    Let us pray.

    Regards
    DL
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  7. #6 Re: Believers of reincarnation. Are we in Heaven and just sl 
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    Over time and many generations, is there not one soul in heaven that would like to come back with some words of wisdom.
    while the number of scripture and scriptural commentaries may not outnumber newspapers of the world, there is still quite a reasonably sized body of work to assimilate
    Like this one.

    Deuteronomy 21
    18If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
    19Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
    20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
    21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
    also illustrates the issues of approaching the normative descriptions of scripture without the assistance of a saintly person
    [/quote]
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  8. #7 Re: Believers of reincarnation. Are we in Heaven and just sl 
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Over time and many generations, is there not one soul in heaven that would like to come back with some words of wisdom.
    while the number of scripture and scriptural commentaries may not outnumber newspapers of the world, there is still quite a reasonably sized body of work to assimilate
    Like this one.

    Deuteronomy 21
    18If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
    19Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
    20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
    21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
    also illustrates the issues of approaching the normative descriptions of scripture without the assistance of a saintly person
    [/quote]

    Do you know one?
    I do not.

    Regards
    DL
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  9. #8 Re: Believers of reincarnation. Are we in Heaven and just sl 
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    Do you know one?
    I do not.

    Regards
    DL
    probably a better question would be "do you know how to recognize one?"
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  10. #9 Re: Believers of reincarnation. Are we in Heaven and just sl 
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko

    Do you know one?
    I do not.

    Regards
    DL
    probably a better question would be "do you know how to recognize one?"
    I don't know.

    You made the statement. I was hoping you were going to make an offering.

    I am always eager to learn.

    Regards
    DL
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  11. #10 Re: Believers of reincarnation. Are we in Heaven and just sl 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko

    Do you know one?
    I do not.

    Regards
    DL
    probably a better question would be "do you know how to recognize one?"
    I don't know.

    You made the statement. I was hoping you were going to make an offering.

    I am always eager to learn.

    Regards
    DL
    a good place to start
    http://vedabase.net/noi/en

    NoI 1: A sober person who can tolerate the urge to speak, the mind's demands, the actions of anger and the urges of the tongue, belly and genitals is qualified to make disciples all over the world.
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  12. #11  
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    punarmusiko

    Thanks for that.

    I am always astounded by those who would name so many places as holy.

    My belief is that there is nothing holy on this earth. God has not named these holy man has. Somewhat like the holy wars that we hear about. These are not God lead, they are man named and man lead. So many speaking for God.

    Regards
    DL
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    punarmusiko

    Thanks for that.

    I am always astounded by those who would name so many places as holy.

    My belief is that there is nothing holy on this earth. God has not named these holy man has. Somewhat like the holy wars that we hear about. These are not God lead, they are man named and man lead. So many speaking for God.

    Regards
    DL
    the idea behind a holy place is that it is linked to the pastimes/occurrences of a great personality.

    The basic idea is that if god didn't descend (either personally or through an expansion or empowered representative) to this realm, there would be no means for us to delineate the nature of the absolute realm.

    As such, its not clear what it is exactly that you suggest prevents god from being involved in acting in certain tracts of his universe or in naming them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    punarmusiko

    Thanks for that.

    I am always astounded by those who would name so many places as holy.

    My belief is that there is nothing holy on this earth. God has not named these holy man has. Somewhat like the holy wars that we hear about. These are not God lead, they are man named and man lead. So many speaking for God.

    Regards
    DL
    the idea behind a holy place is that it is linked to the pastimes/occurrences of a great personality.

    The basic idea is that if god didn't descend (either personally or through an expansion or empowered representative) to this realm, there would be no means for us to delineate the nature of the absolute realm.

    As such, its not clear what it is exactly that you suggest prevents god from being involved in acting in certain tracts of his universe or in naming them.
    In a perfect universe, would one spot be more holy than another? To man perhaps but not to God.

    God only gets involved with those who seek Him out. Any contact with His conscience is brief. The insight is deep but short. All else prophets speak of is based on impressions. An example of this would be feeling the love of God. The problem there is that knowing the depth of that love, any prophet would know that God is incapable of the atrocities that scripture lays on His name. God cannot hurt man so that would kill the stories of Sodom and the flood and the numerous places where God is said to hurt or help hurt mankind.

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am

    In a perfect universe, would one spot be more holy than another? To man perhaps but not to God.

    God only gets involved with those who seek Him out.
    hence those places where he is sought out become special
    Any contact with His conscience is brief. The insight is deep but short. All else prophets speak of is based on impressions. An example of this would be feeling the love of God.
    not necessarily

    BG 6.29 A true yogi observes Me in all beings and also sees every being in Me. Indeed, the self-realized person sees Me, the same Supreme Lord, everywhere.

    BG 6.30 For one who sees Me everywhere and sees everything in Me, I am never lost, nor is he ever lost to Me.

    etc etc

    The problem there is that knowing the depth of that love, any prophet would know that God is incapable of the atrocities that scripture lays on His name. God cannot hurt man so that would kill the stories of Sodom and the flood and the numerous places where God is said to hurt or help hurt mankind.
    from our conditioned perspective we appear to be mortal and bound up irrevocably in issues of mortality

    from the unconditioned perspective we appear eternal and merely accept a conditioned existence temporarily to facilitate some poorly placed desires

    god, as well as a saintly person, operates out of an unconditioned existence all the time

    we operate out of an unconditioned existence some of the time
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    I think you are babbling concepts that are silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am

    In a perfect universe, would one spot be more holy than another? To man perhaps but not to God.

    God only gets involved with those who seek Him out.
    hence those places where he is sought out become special
    The only -place- where God is sought, is in a mind. this make minds special. Not a location that is fixed.

    Any contact with His conscience is brief. The insight is deep but short. All else prophets speak of is based on impressions. An example of this would be feeling the love of God.
    not necessarily

    BG 6.29 A true yogi observes Me in all beings and also sees every being in Me. Indeed, the self-realized person sees Me, the same Supreme Lord, everywhere.

    BG 6.30 For one who sees Me everywhere and sees everything in Me, I am never lost, nor is he ever lost to Me.

    etc etc
    Babble.

    The problem there is that knowing the depth of that love, any prophet would know that God is incapable of the atrocities that scripture lays on His name. God cannot hurt man so that would kill the stories of Sodom and the flood and the numerous places where God is said to hurt or help hurt mankind.
    from our conditioned perspective we appear to be mortal and bound up irrevocably in issues of mortality

    from the unconditioned perspective we appear eternal and merely accept a conditioned existence temporarily to facilitate some poorly placed desires

    god, as well as a saintly person, operates out of an unconditioned existence all the time

    we operate out of an unconditioned existence some of the time
    Hogwash.

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    I think you are babbling concepts that are silly.
    if one insists on talking about the length and breadth of a prophets vision simply on the gusto of one's ideas (as opposed to at least quoting scripture and/or scriptural commentary) one is either trying to pass one's self off as a prophet or is speaking hogwash ....
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    I think you are babbling concepts that are silly.
    if one insists on talking about the length and breadth of a prophets vision simply on the gusto of one's ideas (as opposed to at least quoting scripture and/or scriptural commentary) one is either trying to pass one's self off as a prophet or is speaking hogwash ....
    I have called myself a prophet because of my one contact with God.

    He indicated that although all Bibles have value for thought, much of it is not worthy of the paper.

    I may have been harsh. That is my nature but we only have one perspective.

    Unless you are schizophrenic.

    Regards
    DL
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    I think you are babbling concepts that are silly.
    if one insists on talking about the length and breadth of a prophets vision simply on the gusto of one's ideas (as opposed to at least quoting scripture and/or scriptural commentary) one is either trying to pass one's self off as a prophet or is speaking hogwash ....
    I have called myself a prophet because of my one contact with God.

    He indicated that although all Bibles have value for thought, much of it is not worthy of the paper.

    I may have been harsh. That is my nature but we only have one perspective.

    Unless you are schizophrenic.

    Regards
    DL
    Service to god that ignores scripture is simply a disturbance to society
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    I think you are babbling concepts that are silly.
    if one insists on talking about the length and breadth of a prophets vision simply on the gusto of one's ideas (as opposed to at least quoting scripture and/or scriptural commentary) one is either trying to pass one's self off as a prophet or is speaking hogwash ....
    I have called myself a prophet because of my one contact with God.

    He indicated that although all Bibles have value for thought, much of it is not worthy of the paper.

    I may have been harsh. That is my nature but we only have one perspective.

    Unless you are schizophrenic.

    Regards
    DL
    Service to god that ignores scripture is simply a disturbance to society
    Would it serve God if we observed this scripture.

    Deuteronomy 21
    18If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
    19Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
    20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
    21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

    The Bible speaks with both the voice of Christ and also the Antichrist. Who would you say spoke the above?

    Regards
    DL
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am

    Would it serve God if we observed this scripture.

    Deuteronomy 21
    18If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
    19Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
    20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
    21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
    And this strikes you as the conclusion of scripture, the highest goal?

    The Bible speaks with both the voice of Christ and also the Antichrist. Who would you say spoke the above?

    Regards
    DL
    there are a variety of religious injunctions and takes a little wisdom to determine what is the primary issue and what is the detail.

    Technically this issue crops up under "text critical issues" of scripture

    For instance there are very good reasons why many jews in down town NYC choose to ignore religious injunctions regarding the maintenance of camels

    [/quote]
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am

    Would it serve God if we observed this scripture.

    Deuteronomy 21
    18If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
    19Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
    20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
    21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
    And this strikes you as the conclusion of scripture, the highest goal?

    The Bible speaks with both the voice of Christ and also the Antichrist. Who would you say spoke the above?

    Regards
    DL
    there are a variety of religious injunctions and takes a little wisdom to determine what is the primary issue and what is the detail.

    Technically this issue crops up under "text critical issues" of scripture

    For instance there are very good reasons why many jews in down town NYC choose to ignore religious injunctions regarding the maintenance of camels
    [/quote]

    The above does not need much widoms to determine that only a fool would follow such a stupid law.

    I am glad not to be your son if you have to ponder such a hard moral choice.

    Regards
    DL
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    The above does not need much widoms to determine that only a fool would follow such a stupid law.[/quote]
    what to say if one accepts it as conclusive of scripture


    I am glad not to be your son if you have to ponder such a hard moral choice.

    Regards
    DL
    I am glad that the jews in downtown NYC don't invest their wealth in camels too
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