Notices
Results 1 to 29 of 29

Thread: The historical Jesus didn't create a new religion!

  1. #1 The historical Jesus didn't create a new religion! 
    New Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    4
    This post we about the historical Jesus . who was he? Did he or his followers create a new religion? According to historical scholarship [sources: see at the bottom of this post] he practised what corresponds to today’s Orthodox Judaism all his life. His followers were called Netzarim – that is Hebrew [it means offshoot (of a olive tree)] and is a name in the Jewish
    Bible that is used for Messiah.

    During the first century those who practised Judaism were very devoted their religion. Just like King David and all other Jews throughout history they practised Torah (Instruction) – the Instructions of the Creator – with joy! The most prominent university professors in this field Prof. Elisha Qimron , author of the most authoritative treatise on 4Q MMT, demonstrates that all three of the major sects of first century Judaism followed both written and oral Torah.
    Louis Feldman (”The Omnipresence of the G*od-Fearers,” Biblical Archaeology Review, 1986.09-10, p. 45, 58ff) observes: “the Jews were apparently extraordinarily successful in winning converts”

    Year 7 B.C.E Ribi Yehoshua were born in Bethlehem. His father name was Yoseiph and his mothers name was Miryam. His parents were practising Jews.
    According to world-recognized authorities in this area Ribi Yehoshua was a Pharisee (a Torah-practising Jewish group - who according to 4Q MMT practised both written and oral Torah). As the earliest church historians, most eminent modern university historians, our web site (The only authentic Netzarim - i.e. in Ra'anana in Israel led by Paqid Yirmeyahu ha-Tzadiq) and our Khavruta (Distance Learning) texts confirm, the original teachings of Ribi Yehoshua were not only accepted by most of the Pharisaic Jewish community, he had hoards of Jewish students.

    He took care of sick and made it popular among the masses to pray in what corresponds to today’s Orthodox synagogues. The genealogically non-priest, Hellenist “Wicked Priest” Temple-Sadducees felt that their power was threaten by Ribi Yehoshua. They decided to get him crucified by the Romans. The Romans convicted and crucified Ribi Yehoshua year 30 C.E.

    Ribi Yehoshua’s followers Netzarim were expelled from Jerusalem 135 C.E: together with all other Jews. The first Christian bishop Markos replaced the fifteenth leader of Netzarim Yehudah, ha-Tzadiq. This Christian bishop didn’t have permission to do this. What the Paul the apostate and later the founder of Christianity did was to take some concepts that Ribi Yehoshua had taught; they Hellenized the concepts and included them in the religion which they practiced – Hellenism – the religion of the Greeks. (Sources: See Ecclesiastical History (EH IV.v.1-4; EH V.xii.1) )

    Anyone educated in this field knows that the only sect of Judaism that had rabbis was the Pharisee and even the Christian NT described him as a rabbi. Parkes, Bagatti, Wilson, Charlesworth; all world-recognized authorities in this area leave no doubt that Ribi Yehoshua was a Pharisee, of the school of Hileil - who was also Pharisee. There is no serious dispute about that among scholars in the field. Ribi Yehoshua taught in "synagogues"; which were a strictly Pharisee institution.

    Following the teachings of the Judaic Mâshiakh (Messiah) Ribi Yehoshua – that is doing one’s utmost to practice the 613 commandments of Torah - also brings the inner joy, purpose and happiness of working intimately with him to bring about, and participate in, the Messianic era, enjoying a higher level of communion with ha-Sheim - the Creator - as party to Yirmeyâhu's (Jeremiah’s) New Covenant.

    If you want to learn about the Historical Ribi Yehoshua, whose followers Orthodox Jews can live with (witness the Netzarim Jews in Raanana, Israel, members in good standing in an Orthodox synagogue), you must start with books like How Jesus Became Christian by Prof. Barrie Wilson (most bookstores) and Who Are The Netzarim? (publ. Schueller House; http://www.schuellerhouse.com/) by Israeli Orthodox Jew, Paqid Yirmeyahu Ben-David.

    Finding the historical Jew, who was a Pharisee Ribi and following him brings you into Torah, which gives you a rich and meaningful life here on earth and great rewards in life after death (“heaven”)!

    From Anders Branderud
    Geir Toshav of Netzarim (www.netzarim.co.il) who are follower of Ribi Yehoshua - Messiah - in Orthodox Judaism


     

  2.  
     

  3. #2 Re: The historical Jesus didn't create a new religion! 
    (Q)
    (Q) is offline
    Forum Isotope (Q)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,650
    Quote Originally Posted by andersbranderud
    This post we about the historical Jesus . who was he?
    According to "History" Jesus didn't exist.


    Religious Fundamentalist Club - Member #1.
     

  4. #3 Historical Scholars in leading universites agrees that Ribi 
    New Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    4
    Yes, J*esus didn’t exist.

    No one can follow two polar-opposite masters — the authentic, historical, PRO-Torah 1st-century Ribi from Nazareth and the 4th-century (post-135 C.E.), arch-antithesis ANTI-Torah apostasy developed by the Hellenists (namely the Sadducees and Roman pagans who conspired to kill Ribi Yәhoshua, displaced his original followers and redacted the NT).

    Historical Scholars in leading universites agrees that Ribi Yehoshua existed. If you claim something else, the burden of proof is on you!!


    As I already have written:
    Anyone educated in this field knows that the only sect of Judaism that had rabbis was the Pharisee and even the Christian NT described him as a rabbi. Parkes, Bagatti, Wilson, Charlesworth; all world-recognized authorities in this area leave no doubt that Ribi Yehoshua was a Pharisee, of the school of Hileil - who was also Pharisee. There is no serious dispute about that among scholars in the field. Ribi Yehoshua taught in "synagogues"; which were a strictly Pharisee institution.

    From Anders Branderud
    Geir Toshav of Netzarim (www.netzarim.co.il) who are follower of Ribi Yehoshua - Messiah - in Orthodox Judaism
     

  5. #4 Re: The historical Jesus didn't create a new religion! 
    Forum Junior kkawohl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by andersbranderud
    This post we about the historical Jesus . who was he?
    According to "History" Jesus didn't exist.
    The problem in understanding Jesus begins with the fact that we have rather limited sources for reconstructing his life. Those sources are primarily the gospel traditions in the New Testament, some apocryphal materials from the early Christian tradition, and some sources external to the New Testament. Those sources external to the New Testament are particularly valuable because they're not directly statements of faith, the way the New Testament materials are. Chief among those external sources is Josephus, a Jewish historian who wrote at the end of the first century and who in book 18 of his "Antiquities of the Jews," has a small passage about Jesus. He also reports about John the Baptist, and about James, the brother of Jesus. And those passages constitute the first external testimonies to the existence of Jesus by someone who was not a follower. They may have been tampered with in the transmission, but at the core there probably is a reliable historical account by Josephus of the existence of Jesus.

    Professional historians try to assemble all of the evidence that's available for reconstructing an event and they're concerned about the bias in any of those sources that they use. At the first stage in reconstructing an event is to analyze the bias of sources. The gospels, for instance, are clearly statements of faith and they have certain takes on who Jesus was and what he meant to his followers. External sources like Josephus don't have the same faith commitment, they may have some other axes to grind, but in any case you have to see what the biases of the sources are, and try to take those into account as you do your reconstruction.
     

  6. #5 Re: The historical Jesus didn't create a new religion! 
    (Q)
    (Q) is offline
    Forum Isotope (Q)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,650
    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl
    Josephus, a Jewish historian who wrote at the end of the first century and who in book 18 of his "Antiquities of the Jews," has a small passage about Jesus. He also reports about John the Baptist, and about James, the brother of Jesus. And those passages constitute the first external testimonies to the existence of Jesus by someone who was not a follower. They may have been tampered with in the transmission, but at the core there probably is a reliable historical account by Josephus of the existence of Jesus.
    Yes, others have also put forward arguments about Josephus and a range of historians purported to have commented on the Christ. So far, none have been validated and most have been shown to have been changed by Christians later on, including Josephus.
    Religious Fundamentalist Club - Member #1.
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    266
    yup i agree with the above posts serous historians agree that Jesus actually walked this earth, whether he was the son of god is the question, but to say otherwise would put yo uin the fringe and in error
     

  8. #7  
    (Q)
    (Q) is offline
    Forum Isotope (Q)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,650
    Quote Originally Posted by ishmaelblues
    serous historians agree that Jesus actually walked this earth,
    Perhaps you didn't read the posts, NO serious historians agree Jesus existed.
    Religious Fundamentalist Club - Member #1.
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Junior kkawohl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    226
    In the US everyone has the freedom to worship and choose which religion one wants to be associated with while in some countries and regions there is no choice; one either conforms or he is killed. Monotheistic religions believe in One God, yet even amongst Christians in the US there are more than 900 various denominations. Then there is Islam and Judaism that also claims the rights to this One God. The ultimate goal of all of these religions should be to promote unity rather than divisions in order to stop the killings and religious related terrorism. Picture religions, by acquiring religious unity, as being similar to the governments of the states within the US or the European Union. There will always be friction amongst individual groups without a leading government. Religions can also achieve this same unity by realizing that their groups originally were started by their leader's spiritual interaction with the same One God.

    Christians cling to their prejudices by claiming to be better than other religions by saying their messenger was the only Son of God, yet they also claim to be children of God. If Christians really wished to know the truth, that Jesus was just another messenger of God, they could easily research it on the Internet, but most would rather be bamboozled and hold onto their prejudices. This is wrong; it must stop; it must change.

    A form of terrorism that is thrust upon our susceptible youth today by fundamentalist Christians is probably more damaging psychologically to them then if they witnessed an actual act of terrorism or an execution. Many will carry the psychological wounds that they inflict throughout their entire lives. These youths are indoctrinated toward a biased thought process that eliminates open communications amongst religions.

    Christians who preach and promote, "Unless you become a Christian, you will burn in hell. Your soul will not be with God unless you become a Christian. Repent and be a Christian or the devil will get you", or many of the biblical phrases attributed toward punishment unless you become a Christian, should be labeled as being prejudiced religious terrorists.
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beautiful Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    2,116
    kkahowl said:
    Christians cling to their prejudices by claiming to be better than other religions by saying their messenger was the only Son of God, yet they also claim to be children of God. If Christians really wished to know the truth, that Jesus was just another messenger of God, they could easily research it on the Internet, but most would rather be bamboozled and hold onto their prejudices. This is wrong; it must stop; it must change.
    You know, you can also find a lot of stuff on the internet supporting the idea that Jesus is the one and only begotten son of God. Perhaps if you read some of that stuff you would stop being bamboozled by your Urantia Foundation man-made religion.

    kkawohl also said:

    Christians who preach and promote, "Unless you become a Christian, you will burn in hell. Your soul will not be with God unless you become a Christian. Repent and be a Christian or the devil will get you", or many of the biblical phrases attributed toward punishment unless you become a Christian, should be labeled as being prejudiced religious terrorists.
    If Christians believed that you would be saved by praying five times a day toward Rome and that you would receive a special gift in heaven for suicide murdering non-Christians, that is what they would preach. We all preach that which we believe.

    I think Christians actually preach that the devil already has you and it is a matter of you getting out of his grasp. And they teach you can easily escape the devil's grasp by accepting the free gift of salvation. Somehow, people seem to interpret that as God sending them to Hell rather than the devil leading them there. Or that God is denying them admission into heaven when He provides the means to get there.

    But I do agree that Christians believe that if you have not received salvation from God, you are in a precarious position. They would believe that teaching anything else is error. Other religions have similar beliefs in their religion. So why is it you consider only Christianity dangerous? Is it because your realize and fear, deep down, that it may well have the one true God?
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

    If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005
     

  11. #10  
    Forum Junior kkawohl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    You know, you can also find a lot of stuff on the internet supporting the idea that Jesus is the one and only begotten son of God. Christians wanted to bypass the First Commandment, be prejudiced against all other religions and exclusively create their own God. Perhaps if you read some of that stuff you would stop being bamboozled by your Urantia Foundation man-made religion. All religions are man-made. There is a vast difference between Urantia and Urantia United. See http://urantia.us We all preach that which we believe. even if it promotes exclusivity and prejudice?

    I think Christians actually preach that the devil already has you and it is a matter of you getting out of his grasp. And they teach you can easily escape the devil's grasp by accepting the free gift of salvation. Somehow, people seem to interpret that as God sending them to Hell rather than the devil leading them there. Or that God is denying them admission into heaven when He provides the means to get there. this is Christian brain-washing...the devil only exists on Halloween...your deeds will reap its just rewards

    But I do agree that Christians believe that if you have not received salvation from God, you are in a precarious position. They would believe that teaching anything else is error. Other religions have similar beliefs in their religion. So why is it you consider only Christianity dangerous? Is it because your realize and fear, deep down, that it may well have the one true God?
    only if you are brain-washed into Christian prejudicial thinking. No other religion has created their own God.

    Are we seeing a repeat of history ? Diversity of religious beliefs when it breeds fanaticism is a dangerous combination.

    The Crusades (1095 -1398) were a series of Christian military expeditions to reclaim the Holy Land from the Muslims. Muslims were considered infidels and a threat to Christianity in the East and the "peace of God" at home. Preachers of the crusade pleaded for all to participate in this holy cause, whether rich or poor, experienced in the military or not. With the cry "Deus Vult!" ("God wills it!") Christians slaughtered Muslims everywhere they went. The fighting was fierce, but the unsuspecting Muslims were no match for the bloodthirsty Crusaders, who killed not only fighting men, but also women and children.

    The spiritual dimension or God may indirectly have an effect on our mind or body via our spirit, but it never has and never will "directly" effect anything in the physical universe.

    I do not dispute or doubt that many people had their spirit interacted with the spirit of Jesus after his physical death and that they thereby visualized or envisioned his physical appearance and departure from earth. The profound effect that such an experience has on the mind is mind-boggling.

     

  12. #11  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    927
    so the quran says to kill non-believers? so what, bible says the same thing.
    or where do you think the stuff about "heretics" and "heathens" comes from?
    2000 of years of anti-semittism?
    here's something for you:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_ghettos_in_Europe

    thats just the very tip of the iceberg.

    and similarly, muslims has had periods of acceptance, AND prosecution of jews.

    muslims are no better, and no worse than christians.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
    A.C Doyle
     

  13. #12  
    Forum Junior kkawohl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    muslims are no better, and no worse than christians.
    I agree. :? ...except...Muslims and Jews have not created their own exclusive God like the prejudiced Christians have...this must change in order to have interreligious unity.

    Jesus remained faithful to his principles of peace and love, bravely defying those who attempted to crown him as the “King of the Jews” and to lead the fight against their opposition, represented the epitome of what it means to lead a righteous life, thereby being a child of God; he was in a true sense, the “Son of God”.

    Until Jesus’ baptism by John at about the age of 30 he had been an obscure carpenter from Galilee. But the baptism marked the turning point in his life - he began to believe he could be the Messiah and he now had a mission.

    Will they who believe that Jesus was a prophet rather than the only son of God be condemned ? Are we not, as according to the bible, children of God, therefore as children, we are also a son or a daughter of God.

    If Jesus were born now would people believe that he was God ?

    Jesus has been appropriately called the "Son of God" and "Prince of Peace". We are often reminded of the teachings of Jesus whose words have survived two millennia. His disciples kept him alive in the memories of all who heard and believed his words. They, as well as other "Men of God" who contributed to the compilation of the scriptures of the Bible, were inspired by God to give us guidelines to live by.
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beautiful Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    2,116
    dejawolf said:

    muslims are no better, and no worse than christians.

    I suppose by that method of thinking, one could say that atheists and agnostics are no better or no worse than Hitler or Stalin or Mao. Oh, wait a minute, they are all the same! [/b]
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

    If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005
     

  15. #14  
    Forum Junior kkawohl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    dejawolf said:

    muslims are no better, and no worse than christians.

    I suppose by that method of thinking, one could say that atheists and agnostics are no better or no worse than Hitler or Stalin or Mao. Oh, wait a minute, they are all the same! [/b]
    Hitler claimed to be a Christian.

    Agnostics and believers are truthful. Atheists who claim there is no God and the religious who claim there is a God are ignorant of the meaning of truth.
     

  16. #15  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    266
    Q you are wrong your not in the history field, i am, you could ask every history doctorate in my department and they would most likely say Jesus existed
     

  17. #16  
    Forum Junior kkawohl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by ishmaelblues
    Q you are wrong your not in the history field, i am, you could ask every history doctorate in my department and they would most likely say Jesus existed
    The followers of Jesus have kept his memory alive for over 2000 years. Jesus symbolizes the good within mankind and promotes faith in God. His story, whether true or not, is immaterial. Stories have a way of snowballing but it's the original message that counts.

    All religions were created from some individual's spirit interacting with the spirit of God, as Jesus spirit did during his baptism. All religions must realize their fallibilities and unite under the spirituality that unites all mankind. It's our only hope to stop our brethren from killing each other. Peace.
     

  18. #17  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beautiful Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    2,116
    kkawohl said:

    Hitler claimed to be a Christian.
    So if I claim to be a Martian, does that make me a Martian? Hitler was no more a Christian than were his ancient murderous pagan relatives, the Huns. He was far more like them than like a Christian.
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

    If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005
     

  19. #18  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beautiful Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    2,116
    kkawohl said:

    Agnostics and believers are truthful. Atheists who claim there is no God and the religious who claim there is a God are ignorant of the meaning of truth.
    I confess very little knowledge of Urantia beliefs although I think I do actually have a Urantia Book someplace in the basement that someone gave me circa 1975-76 which I read some excerpts in. I was, at the time, a brand new Christian and I immediately recognized the Urantia Book as heresy.

    Subsequently, I have considered that Urantia would be very appealing to agnostics who would sort of like to believe maybe there is a God and a spirit world, but that it isn't the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob nor the God of Mohammad. I think Urantia would be a very good religion for agnotics.

    I think your last sentence requires some explanation. If religious believers in God are ignorant of the meaning of truth and atheist non-believers are ignorant of the meaning of truth, I cannot figure out what the middle ground is. I think atheists and believers almost agree on one thing -- either God exists or he doesn't. While atheists do not believe God exists, I think they would agree that if they are wrong, God most likely exists. Believers would probably agree that if they are wrong, God most likely does not exist.

    If you choose to do some 'splainin,' please do not use a link unless you can provide a brief summary of what the link should show.
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

    If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005
     

  20. #19  
    Forum Junior kkawohl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    kkawohl said:

    Agnostics and believers are truthful. Atheists who claim there is no God and the religious who claim there is a God are ignorant of the meaning of truth.
    I think Urantia would be a very good religion for agnotics.

    The one thing lacking from the original Urantia Book was the message that “All religions that promote peace, love and compassion toward others have equal validity”. This is portrayed in the edited "Urantia United Book."
    http://urantia.us/


    I think your last sentence requires some explanation.
    Truth is fact...an atheist does not know factually that God does not exist...a religious person does not know factually that God does exist....a believer has belief and faith, he is correct and the agnostic is correct.
     

  21. #20  
    Forum Junior kkawohl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    kkawohl said:

    Hitler claimed to be a Christian.
    Hitler was no more a Christian than were his ancient murderous pagan relatives, the Huns. He was far more like them than like a Christian.
    I agree...that is why I stated Hitler claimed to be a Christian.
     

  22. #21  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    927
    what are the requirements of being a christian?
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
    A.C Doyle
     

  23. #22  
    Forum Masters Degree pavlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    liverpool
    Posts
    715
    Quote Originally Posted by kkawohl
    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    kkawohl said:

    Hitler claimed to be a Christian.
    Hitler was no more a Christian than were his ancient murderous pagan relatives, the Huns. He was far more like them than like a Christian.
    I agree...that is why I stated Hitler claimed to be a Christian.
    Hitler was in fact, a lutherian christian, his beliefs were posited in all aspects of the third reich.
    Are you now going to tell us, that Mormons are not christians and Catholics, Presbyterians, Methodists, Baptists, etc... are all not christian. just because there politics etc... are different from your own, there are afterall 34.000 different denominations.

    Cherry picking what you like and dislike isn't going to change the facts.
    Accept it, the majority of wars and the majority of killings are done for and on behalf of god/religion.
    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
     

  24. #23  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beautiful Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    2,116
    pavlos said:

    Hitler was in fact, a lutherian christian, his beliefs were posited in all aspects of the third reich.
    There are many people who go to a Christian church who are not Christians. There are many people who express beliefs that mimic Christianity without being Christians. Hitler was such a person. He was no more Christian than you are a fish. No Christian would slaughter 6 million Jews. And if you think they would, you are as sick as Hitler was.

    and

    Are you now going to tell us, that Mormons are not christians and Catholics, Presbyterians, Methodists, Baptists, etc... are all not christian. just because there politics etc... are different from your own, there are afterall 34.000 different denominations.
    What differentiates Christians from non-Christians is what they believe and teach about Jesus. Of the denominations you mentioned, Catholics, Presbyterians, Methodists, and Baptists all teach that Jesus was the only begotten son of God, that humans are sinners, separated from God and that reconciliation is achieved by trusting that the life, death and resurrection of Jesus was the atoning sacrifice required by God. Mormons do not teach that Jesus was the only begotten son of God and, therefore, are not considered to be Christians by mainstream Christianity.

    and also


    Cherry picking what you like and dislike isn't going to change the facts.
    Accept it, the majority of wars and the majority of killings are done for and on behalf of god/religion.
    This is exactly what you are doing, pavlos. The majority of wars and deaths have been perpetrated by unholy people attempting to dominate others for political and economic purposes. If you cannot see that, it is because you are blinded by your only jaded view of history and religion. You sound like another Dawkins fan blaming all the ills of the world on religion when most of the worlds problems are caused by greedy, power hungry people without morals.

    In the final analysis, your post is virtually devoid of accuracy or realistic representation of reality or history.


    _________________
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

    If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005
     

  25. #24  
    Forum Masters Degree
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    716
    Daytonturner wrote
    The majority of wars and deaths have been perpetrated by unholy people attempting to dominate others for political and economic purposes.
    And the minority?
    If there is any religion that would cope with modern scientific needs, it would be Buddhism
    -Albert Einstein
     

  26. #25  
    Forum Senior TvEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    398
    Daytonturner, anyone who expresses belief in christ as the messiah is a christian. If a person, eg. Hitler, can't successfully live according to christ's message, he's just not very good at being a christian.
    "First we build the tools, then they build us" - Marshall McLuhan.
     

  27. #26  
    Forum Sophomore timel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    107
    Quote Originally Posted by TvEye
    Daytonturner, anyone who expresses belief in christ as the messiah is a christian. If a person, eg. Hitler, can't successfully live according to christ's message, he's just not very good at being a christian.
    Imagine Hitler believed in Christ and accepted him before dying. Jeeezeed It means he is saved. Hitler's in paradise :wink:
    A pilot lives in a world of perfection, or not at all.

    — Richard S. Drury,
     

  28. #27  
    Forum Masters Degree pavlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    liverpool
    Posts
    715
    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    pavlos said:

    Hitler was in fact, a lutherian christian, his beliefs were posited in all aspects of the third reich.
    There are many people who go to a Christian church who are not Christians. There are many people who express beliefs that mimic Christianity without being Christians. Hitler was such a person. He was no more Christian than you are a fish. No Christian would slaughter 6 million Jews. And if you think they would, you are as sick as Hitler was.
    So because Hitler was an evil Despot, theres no way he could have been Christian, It couldn't be that he was a religious zealot who took the word of the bible as literal, and slaughtered the Jews because he believed they killed Jesus, "1 Thessalonians 2 :14
    For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
    2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
    "
    No it cant be that, it had to be he wasn't a Christian, people going to church who are not Christian, is usually due to self preservation, But for what reason would Hitler need to pretend to be a Christian, he wouldn't, he was a Christian.

    Christians have been killing other adherents of different religions since Christianities onset why would you think it would be different now.
    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    and

    Cherry picking what you like and dislike isn't going to change the facts.
    Accept it, the majority of wars and the majority of killings are done for and on behalf of god/religion.
    This is exactly what you are doing, pavlos. The majority of wars and deaths have been perpetrated by unholy people attempting
    Yes unholy people who happen to be followers of one religion or another, like the Borgia's, torquemada, and Charlemagne
    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    to dominate others for political and economic purposes. If you cannot see that, it is because you are blinded by your only jaded view of history and religion. You sound like another Dawkins fan blaming all the ills of the world on religion when most of the worlds problems are caused by greedy, power hungry people without morals.

    In the final analysis, your post is virtually devoid of accuracy or realistic representation of reality or history.
    Debate the subject not the person ad homs make your case weaker, avoid them.
    A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave."
     

  29. #28  
    Forum Junior kkawohl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner
    No Christian would slaughter 6 million Jews. And if you think they would, you are as sick as Hitler was.
    Are we seeing a repeat of history ? Diversity of religious beliefs when it breeds fanaticism is a dangerous combination.

    The Crusades (1095 -1398) were a series of Christian military expeditions to reclaim the Holy Land from the Muslims. Muslims were considered infidels and a threat to Christianity in the East and the "peace of God" at home. Preachers of the crusade pleaded for all to participate in this holy cause, whether rich or poor, experienced in the military or not. With the cry "Deus Vult!" ("God wills it!") Christians slaughtered Muslims everywhere they went. The fighting was fierce, but the unsuspecting Muslims were no match for the bloodthirsty Crusaders, who killed not only fighting men, but also women and children.
     

  30. #29  
    (Q)
    (Q) is offline
    Forum Isotope (Q)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,650
    Quote Originally Posted by daytonturner

    There are many people who go to a Christian church who are not Christians. There are many people who express beliefs that mimic Christianity without being Christians. Hitler was such a person. He was no more Christian than you are a fish. No Christian would slaughter 6 million Jews. And if you think they would, you are as sick as Hitler was.
    Hahahaha. It looks like Dayton is in denial of the atrocities committed by his precious cult. And if we are to believe Dayton is the Christian he expects others to be, then I'm sure he has some swampland for sale too.
    Religious Fundamentalist Club - Member #1.
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •