Thread: I Have No Father! How a Muslim Became an Atheist

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to share with you a little story I wrote for my new blog. I would appreciate your feedback. thank you.

http://nicoraj.com/2008/09/i-have-no...im-became.html


Nico
www.nicoraj.com

You explain the recognition, the systematic approach and the pitfalls of religious indoctrination, and how an education sees through that thin veil of ignorance. Well written, well done.

Nicely written, with many universal aspects to it. As the comments after it show, there are always qualifications about any insights we may gain from issues like these.

Thanks for that.

cheer

the sunshine "atheist for 30 years" warrior

Very nice story, thx for sharing xD

Originally Posted by nicoraj

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to share with you a little story I wrote for my new blog. I would appreciate your feedback. thank you.

http://nicoraj.com/2008/09/i-have-no...im-became.html

Nico
www.nicoraj.com

Hi Nico, your story perfectly demonstrates the mind-control that religions use. True spirituality requires no enslavement. An atheist incorrectly declares that a god does not exist in the same way a monotheist declares that he does. Only our spirit can have knowledge of the truth. Father and God are human terms and inventions. As you age (80 or 90), spirituality will again be activated in your conscience.

Originally Posted by sunshinewarrior

the sunshine "atheist for 30 years" warrior

Ooooh, you know its only a matter of time then until you become agnostic...

Originally Posted by kkawohl

Only our spirit can have knowledge of the truth. Father and God are human terms and inventions. As you age (80 or 90), spirituality will again be activated in your conscience.

You've already admitted in another thread that the concept of 'spirit' had not been defined, hence your assertions are pointless.

Originally Posted by (Q)

Originally Posted by kkawohl

Only our spirit can have knowledge of the truth. Father and God are human terms and inventions. As you age (80 or 90), spirituality will again be activated in your conscience.

You've already admitted in another thread that the concept of 'spirit' had not been defined, hence your assertions are pointless.

Spirit is the conscience, the consciousness, the faculty, power, or inward principle which decides as to the character of one's own actions, purposes, and affections, warning against and condemning that which is wrong, and approving and prompting to that which is right; the moral faculty passing judgment on one's self; the moral sense. As science means knowledge, conscience etymologically means self-knowledge but the english word implies a moral standard of action in the mind as well as a consciousness of our own actions. Conscience is the reason, employed about questions of right and wrong, and accompanied with the sentiments of approbation and condemnation.

Your definition of the spirit reads like a definition of conscience. Your previous post, in context of your definition, reads to me... 'as you age, your conscience will again be activated in your conscience'.

Originally Posted by kkawohl

Spirit is the conscience, the consciousness, the faculty, power, or inward principle which decides as to the character of one's own actions, purposes, and affections, warning against and condemning that which is wrong, and approving and prompting to that which is right; the moral faculty passing judgment on one's self; the moral sense.

Nonsense. All that you assert which is the spirit is merely bio-chemical reactions within our brains. Your assertions are easily refuted with toddlers and infants who have no concept of morality, what is right and wrong, and so forth. And, then there are those who have incurred brain damage or some other event constricting those concepts as well.

To top it off, none of what you assert has been observed by anyone, hence it is wishful thinking or delusion, at best.

Originally Posted by (Q)

Originally Posted by kkawohl

Spirit is the conscience, the consciousness, the faculty, power, or inward principle which decides as to the character of one's own actions, purposes, and affections, warning against and condemning that which is wrong, and approving and prompting to that which is right; the moral faculty passing judgment on one's self; the moral sense.

Nonsense. All that you assert which is the spirit is merely bio-chemical reactions within our brains. Your assertions are easily refuted with toddlers and infants who have no concept of morality, what is right and wrong, and so forth. And, then there are those who have incurred brain damage or some other event constricting those concepts as well.

To top it off, none of what you assert has been observed by anyone, hence it is wishful thinking or delusion, at best.

Melvin Morse, MD, Pediatrics; Michael Sabom, MD, Cardiology; Peter Fenwick, MD, Neuropsychiatry and Pim van Lommel, MD, Cardiology all have one thing in common. They're in pursuit of verifiable evidence of life after death. Dr Lommel, et al, stirred a bit of controversy back in 2001 when they were published in Lancet, England’s noted medical journal. The publication described near death experiences in survivors of cardiac arrest.

Dr Lommel said, “During life we can receive aspects of our consciousness into our body as our waking consciousness. During cardiac arrest, the functioning of the brain and of other cells in our body stops because of anoxia. The electromagnetic fields of our neurons and other cells disappear, and the possibility of resonance, the interface between consciousness and our physical body is interrupted, and our heightened consciousness may be experienced outside the body, sometimes in another dimension without our material concept of time and space. The almost unavoidable conclusion is that at the time of physical death consciousness will continue to be experienced in another dimension, in an invisible and immaterial world, the phase-space, in which all past, present and future is enclosed. Research on NDE cannot give us the irrefutable scientific proof of this conclusion, because people with an NDE did not quite die, but they all were very, very close to death, without a functioning brain”.

Who'd have thought your brain starts acting wacky when you're busy keeling over.

Originally Posted by kkawohl

Melvin Morse, MD, Pediatrics; Michael Sabom, MD, Cardiology; Peter Fenwick, MD, Neuropsychiatry and Pim van Lommel, MD, Cardiology all have one thing in common. They're in pursuit of verifiable evidence of life after death. Dr Lommel, et al, stirred a bit of controversy back in 2001 when they were published in Lancet, England’s noted medical journal. The publication described near death experiences in survivors of cardiac arrest.

Correction, they are in pursuit of pseudoscience claptrap and a fatter wallet.

Dr Lommel said... blah, blah, blah

Yes, you keep quoting the same nonsense over and over. His conclusions are extraordinary and his evidence is ziltch. They cater to the gullible. $$$

Originally Posted by (Q)

Originally Posted by kkawohl

Melvin Morse, MD, Pediatrics; Michael Sabom, MD, Cardiology; Peter Fenwick, MD, Neuropsychiatry and Pim van Lommel, MD, Cardiology all have one thing in common. They're in pursuit of verifiable evidence of life after death. Dr Lommel, et al, stirred a bit of controversy back in 2001 when they were published in Lancet, England’s noted medical journal. The publication described near death experiences in survivors of cardiac arrest.

Correction, they are in pursuit of pseudoscience claptrap and a fatter wallet.

Dr Lommel said... blah, blah, blah

Yes, you keep quoting the same nonsense over and over. His conclusions are extraordinary and his evidence is ziltch. They cater to the gullible. $$$

You know Q, I would have agreed with you 100% if not for my personal weird spiritual experienses at http://urantia.us/urantia_united_summation.htm
And oddly enough, I consider myself to be a non-religious realist...and I'm not selling any books for profit...they can all be accessed free.

Originally Posted by kkawohl

You know Q, I would have agreed with you 100% if not for my personal weird spiritual experienses at http://urantia.us/urantia_united_summation.htm

"Personal weird spiritual experiences" cannot be distinguished from the imaginative or the psychotic.

Originally Posted by (Q)

Originally Posted by kkawohl

You know Q, I would have agreed with you 100% if not for my personal weird spiritual experienses at http://urantia.us/urantia_united_summation.htm

"Personal weird spiritual experiences" cannot be distinguished from the imaginative or the psychotic.

They can; assuming the experiencer is rational, though it may still depends on their conditioned psyche. (mind, soul, spirit)

Originally Posted by kkawohl

They can; assuming the experiencer is rational, though it may still depends on their conditioned psyche. (mind, soul, spirit)

Nonsense. No "experiencer" is rational who believes in souls and spirits. Souls and spirits have not been shown to exist.

Originally Posted by (Q)

Originally Posted by kkawohl

They can; assuming the experiencer is rational, though it may still depends on their conditioned psyche. (mind, soul, spirit)

Nonsense. No "experiencer" is rational who believes in souls and spirits. Souls and spirits have not been shown to exist.

Only to people who have a soul or spirit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_gene

The link you posted can be translated as saying that belief in gods, spirits and souls is the result of a genetic combination which predisposes you to irrational thought patterns. Well done for donating a gun to the atheist weaponry.

Originally Posted by TvEye

The link you posted can be translated as saying that belief in gods, spirits and souls is the result of a genetic combination which predisposes you to irrational thought patterns. Well done for donating a gun to the atheist weaponry.

Certain persons' genes are more predisposed toward spirituality than others. Spirituality is only irrational for atheists...because they are factually incorrect...no one can factually state that God exists or does not exist.

You can't factually state that cavemen weren't ballerinas. But since we have no evidence of neanderthal tutus or so much as a drawing of a caveman doing the splits, we're quite sure that cavemen were actually not ballerinas. If they wanted us to believe they were, they should've put their tutus where zeus couldn't steal them.

Actually, i think that's exactly what happened. Zeus stole all their tutus. Ben franklin? Zeus stole his tutu as well. DO NOT LEAVE YOUR TUTU WHERE ZEUS CAN FIND IT!

Originally Posted by kkawohl

Originally Posted by TvEye

The link you posted can be translated as saying that belief in gods, spirits and souls is the result of a genetic combination which predisposes you to irrational thought patterns. Well done for donating a gun to the atheist weaponry.

Certain persons' genes are more predisposed toward spirituality than others.

And certain people are predisposed to addiction of any kind, doesn't mean a thing it is totally irrelevant.

Originally Posted by kkawohl

Spirituality is only irrational for atheists...

No it's only irrational to Rational people, atheists are just part of the group.

Originally Posted by kkawohl

because they are factually incorrect...no one can factually state that God exists or does not exist.

Wrong! we can state that there is a 0.00000000000000000 (recuring ) chance that gods do not exist due to the lack of evidence, for any one of the millions believed and once believed in, ever having existed.
And nobody in there right mind would try to prove a negative it would be infantile.
It is nonsensical to demand proof of non-existence.
So yes! but for the tiniest of a percentage, we can factually say gods dont exist.
There is no good reason to have a belief in god/gods etc...

Don't say that. Zeus hates unbelievers. If you keep up your atheistic lifestyle, he's going to get angry and make you wear ben franklin's tutu.

Originally Posted by kkawohl

Only to people who have a soul or spirit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_gene

The God Gene is "a physiological arrangement that produces the sensations associated, by some, with the presence of God or other mystic experiences, or more specifically spirituality as a state of mind."

The link does not demonstrate souls exist, or was that not your intent?

Originally Posted by kkawohl

Spirituality is only irrational for atheists...because they are factually incorrect...no one can factually state that God exists or does not exist.

Yet, you do factually state gods exist. Isn't that what you're attempting to argue here?

Spirituality isn't irrational or theists because theists believe in the supernatural, which is full of all types of imps, demons and angels, which theists love to flaunt whenever it suits their purpose.

Of course, theists are unable to distinguish the supernatural from their own imaginations, very much like yourself.

Originally Posted by (Q)

Originally Posted by kkawohl

Spirituality is only irrational for atheists...because they are factually incorrect...no one can factually state that God exists or does not exist.

Yet, you do factually state gods exist. Isn't that what you're attempting to argue here?

God is whatever one wants it to be...to me, to my mind, to my spirit God exists...but the factual existence of God can NEVER be proven in the physical dimension...God is spirit.

soul; spirit = mind, conscience, consciousness

Supernaturalism does not exist in the natural dimension.

Originally Posted by kkawohl

God is whatever one wants it to be...to me, to my mind, to my spirit God exists...but the factual existence of God can NEVER be proven in the physical dimension...God is spirit.

In other words, YOUR personal god fantasies are not the same as others personal god fantasies. Yeah, I get that.

soul; spirit = mind, conscience, consciousness

Patently wrong. Are you going to keep repeating that nonsense over and over assuming that if you do, it might be right?

A soul is not a mind: A mind is a mind. a spirit is not a conscience: A conscience is a conscience. And neither soul nor spirit are consciousness. Your consciousness is your consciousness.

Babylon English Dictionary

• mind

n. brain, human faculty which reasons and judges; human consciousness that is separate from the body, soul; memory, recollection; opinion; intention, desire; sanity

I then put it to you that you are my soul. Your consciousness is separate from my body.

Originally Posted by kkawohl

Babylon English Dictionary

• mind

n. brain, human faculty which reasons and judges; human consciousness that is separate from the body, soul; memory, recollection; opinion; intention, desire; sanity

You need to see a true English dictionary.

Oxford English

mind

1 the faculty of consciousness and thought.
2 a person’s intellect or memory.
3 a person identified with their intellectual faculties. 4 a person’s attention or will.

Cambridge English.

mind

1 the part of a person that enables a person to think, feel emotions and be aware of things.

Or even a American one.

Merriam/Webster

Mind

1: recollection , memory
2: the element or complex of elements in an individual that feels, perceives, thinks, wills, and especially reasons, the conscious mental events and capabilities in an organism, the organized conscious and unconscious adaptive mental activity of an organism.

Perhaps this Babylon Dictionary is a religious one, as it seems to be the only one that includes soul in it's explanation.
http://www.onelook.com/?w=mind&ls=a

Originally Posted by TvEye

I then put it to you that you are my soul. Your consciousness is separate from my body.

We all live in an energy bubble within a larger energy bubble called earth...upon death your bubble bursts...the energy remains to be a part of The Source of energy (God)...where all souls, spirits, consciousness intertwine. Spiritually advanced people's spirit can taWe all live in an energy bubble within a larger energy bubble called earth...upon death your bubble bursts...the energy remains to be a part of The Source of energy (God)...where all souls, spirits, consciousness intertwine. Spiritually advanced people's spirit can tap into this resource during their lifetime for inspiration.

I agree: Your bubble will burst when you die.

Originally Posted by susan

Merriam/Webster

Mind

1: recollection , memory
2: the element or complex of elements in an individual that feels, perceives, thinks, wills, and especially reasons, the conscious mental events and capabilities in an organism, the organized conscious and unconscious adaptive mental activity of an organism.

If you dissect the brain, you will not find the mind, the memory, the consciousness...there is no proof, yet they exist.

Originally Posted by kkawohl

Originally Posted by susan

Merriam/Webster

Mind

1: recollection , memory
2: the element or complex of elements in an individual that feels, perceives, thinks, wills, and especially reasons, the conscious mental events and capabilities in an organism, the organized conscious and unconscious adaptive mental activity of an organism.

If you dissect the brain, you will not find the mind, the memory, the consciousness...there is no proof, yet they exist.

If you dissect the Brain and the Brain dies, is there any consciousness, no of course not.
So without the Brain the Memory, the Mind, and the Consciousness, cease to exist.
This is because Memory, Mind, and Consciousness, are just words to describe the functions of the Brain.
There is plenty of proof for the Brains existence.

Originally Posted by susan

Originally Posted by kkawohl

If you dissect the brain, you will not find the mind, the memory, the consciousness...there is no proof, yet they exist.

If you dissect the Brain and the Brain dies, is there any consciousness, no of course not.

Let's go back to the energy bubble that is your life...when you burst the bubble, you eliminate the body...the energy that was your psyche, mind, consciousness, did not die because that energy can not be eliminated.

Originally Posted by kkawohl

Originally Posted by susan

Originally Posted by kkawohl

If you dissect the brain, you will not find the mind, the memory, the consciousness...there is no proof, yet they exist.

If you dissect the Brain and the Brain dies, is there any consciousness, no of course not.

did not die because that energy can not be eliminated.

Agreed, however it doesn't come together as a group, to make a psuedo-woo-woo-human, the energy that was the brains actions, simply disperses, and mixes with the energy that is the universe.
Go to the bottom of the class.

Originally Posted by kkawohl

We all live in an energy bubble within a larger energy bubble called earth...upon death your bubble bursts...the energy remains to be a part of The Source of energy (God)...where all souls, spirits, consciousness intertwine. Spiritually advanced people's spirit can taWe all live in an energy bubble within a larger energy bubble called earth...upon death your bubble bursts...the energy remains to be a part of The Source of energy (God)...where all souls, spirits, consciousness intertwine. Spiritually advanced people's spirit can tap into this resource during their lifetime for inspiration.

Let's go back to the energy bubble that is your life...when you burst the bubble, you eliminate the body...the energy that was your psyche, mind, consciousness, did not die because that energy can not be eliminated.

Of course, nothing of what you claim has ever been observed, so can we conclude you're just making up that fantasy as you go along?

Originally Posted by (Q)

Originally Posted by kkawohl

We all live in an energy bubble within a larger energy bubble called earth...upon death your bubble bursts...the energy remains to be a part of The Source of energy (God)...where all souls, spirits, consciousness intertwine. Spiritually advanced people's spirit can taWe all live in an energy bubble within a larger energy bubble called earth...upon death your bubble bursts...the energy remains to be a part of The Source of energy (God)...where all souls, spirits, consciousness intertwine. Spiritually advanced people's spirit can tap into this resource during their lifetime for inspiration.

Let's go back to the energy bubble that is your life...when you burst the bubble, you eliminate the body...the energy that was your psyche, mind, consciousness, did not die because that energy can not be eliminated.

Of course, nothing of what you claim has ever been observed, so can we conclude you're just making up that fantasy as you go along?

We will know...when our bubble bursts 8) ...in the meantime, we merely gather experiences that will then be added to the progressive spiritual intellect of what man calls God. See http://urantia.us/urantia_united_summation.htm

Originally Posted by kkawohl

We will know...when our bubble bursts 8) ...in the meantime, we merely gather experiences that will then be added to the progressive spiritual intellect of what man calls God. See http://urantia.us/urantia_united_summation.htm

Clearly, you have nothing to say and are only here to preach. You keep repeating the same nonsense over and over again and when left with nothing to say, you toss in that crap about Urantia, that no one is buying.

It looks like your time is about done here.

Originally Posted by (Q)

Originally Posted by kkawohl

We will know...when our bubble bursts 8) ...in the meantime, we merely gather experiences that will then be added to the progressive spiritual intellect of what man calls God. See http://urantia.us/urantia_united_summation.htm

It looks like your time is about done here.

Soon...count your blessings. :wink: