Notices
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Come out the doubt and you shall see truth

  1. #1 Come out the doubt and you shall see truth 
    Forum Sophomore
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Uncertain
    Posts
    182
    Come out the doubt and you shall see truth:

    Until one confronts the doubts within themselves about God one will never have true connection with God.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2 Come out the doubt and you shall see truth 
    Forum Sophomore Vaedrah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    155
    Does the question presuppose some internal conflict that people are presenting

    Come out the doubt and you shall see truth
    I doubt that "doubt" is a reason for indecision on the part of people that do not favor a religious explanation of the universe. For example, say you have an apple and an orange - which is best? Is the apple "better" than an orange? Is an orange "better" than an apple. Are you in "doubt" about the "truth" of such a comparison.

    Religious faith and scientific methodology serve different masters but both, as it seems to me, can coexist just as people with different personalities, cultures, race origin, life experience etc can coexist. The question of which is "true" is non applicable and in some way nonsensical.

    Many people are secure in their beliefs and to a finer point, on their ability and right to own their beliefs. I doubt that the decision choice is simply two way - "believe as me" or "believe otherwise based on doubt about my beliefs". The world has far more variety of opinion and faith than this; otherwise it would seem kind of dull.


    "The sky cannot speak of the ocean, the ocean cannot speak of the land, the land cannot speak of the stars, the stars cannot speak of the sky"
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Sophomore
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Uncertain
    Posts
    182
    I see, but there is a truth to things and i see doubt as a process for destroying the false ideas.

    On a person level i would prefer to leave my body in doubt of it rather than under an illusion that i was something i was not.

    There is no argument in this topic, just write down your doubts and points, there is no point in anyone quoteing or anything like that, just write down your doubts in small centences if possible.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4 Re: Come out the doubt and you shall see truth 
    Forum Sophomore susan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    leeds
    Posts
    121
    Quote Originally Posted by Dlrow
    Come out the doubt and you shall see truth:

    Until one confronts the doubts within themselves about God one will never have true connection with God.
    To have a feeling of uncertainty about the truth, reality, or nature of something. means you have a belief in it, to deny or doubt a thing you must first believe a thing exists. (theres lies your first hurdle)
    (And here are a few more).
    How does one confront all the illogic of having a belief in god.
    IE:
    * There is not one iota of unequivocal evidence that any God exists.
    * God cannot explain all that exists because God itself cannot be explained. This claim just gratuitously swaps one mystery for another.
    * Religions do not explain any mechanism or process whereby God created everything. It is effectively an appeal to magic.
    * A god or anything that exists outside the realm of natural reality is necessarily unknowable, unintelligible and incoherent. It is therefore irrational to believe in something that is supernatural.
    * All suggested ways to perceive God rely on internal mechanisms that are subject to personal desires, suggestion, and mistakes. On the question of communicating with God, religion insidiously asks us all to deceive ourselves.
    * Every culture that has existed has had God myths and other superstitions. This is often used as an argument for the existence of God. Rather than indicating that there is a true God, this indicates that people are simply attracted to the idea.
    * Goodness, truth, wisdom and all other purported attributes of God are human concepts. When applied to a presumed entity so completely different in kind as to be supernatural, they are meaningless. The idea of God is thus incoherent.
    * Infinity is a concept humans cannot comprehend except in a limited mathematical sense. If God is infinite, this also renders him unintelligible.
    * Theism puts God above people thereby making people subservient, unimportant and expendable.
    * Theism generally precludes any possibility of testing God or questioning his existence substantively. It is something like the wizard of Oz saying, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."
    * There are so many Gods put forth by thousands of religions that no one could ever be certain of picking the correct one, assuming that one exists.
    * There is no discernable difference between believing in God and having an imaginary friend.
    * God supposedly speaks directly to the human spirit. This must be, at least partly, the same concept as the mind. People who receive messages in their minds are invariably delusional.
    * There is no positive correlation between belief in God and being a moral person.
    * The argument that God cannot be proven not to exist is irrelevant when one considers that to do so requires that the concept of a supernatural God be intelligible and coherent, which it is not.
    * There is a well known argument commonly called "The Problem of Evil". It basically says that if an omnipotent and omnibenevolent God exists, unnecessary or gratuitous evil would not exist in the world. Thus if God sees this type of evil and does nothing he is either not omnibenevolent because he doesn't care or not omnipotent because he is unable to stop it. There are many counter-arguments that have been used. However the only one that really could defeat the Problem of Evil is if one says that we cannot apply human standards to decide what is or is not gratuitous evil. This may well be true, but that argument renders God unintelligible and meaningless to humans. Either way, the concept of God seems to be highly doubtful.
    * Theists claim that God has given humans free will. However, this free will is anything but free. The choices are forced on pain of death and eternal suffering. It is equivalent to having a slave and saying something like: "I grant you your freedom to leave at any time. But if you do, I will torture you mercilessly and kill you as slowly as possible."


    [thank you mr friday]
    I may not always be right, but I'm never wrong.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5 Re: Come out the doubt and you shall see truth 
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    Quote Originally Posted by Dlrow
    Come out the doubt and you shall see truth:

    Until one confronts the doubts within themselves about God one will never have true connection with God.
    When in doubt, stick with your gut and pout. I once had a lot of doubt in God and Jesus, I would wonder if they really existed. That feeling was very scary. To get out of that doubt made me feel horrible inside. It was my prayer to Jesus to get me out of it that saved me from that pain. After that, I saw religion, and saw all the lies and un-truths in it. If there is no doubt there is no need to look for help, you don't feel you need to enquire about God or religion because you are happy.

    People are happy with what they believe, they are happy with what they believe.

    You are right about the connection with God though. I confronted the doubt and now I feel I don't need to think about God or rationalise Him, and more than that, I see all other religious and non-religious people as equals and people who are just as lost and found within society and realise that we, human beings, have the ability to see and make truth without God. God just guides us now and again, as a parent would look at a child moving away from home for the first time. God is there when you need help.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Sophomore
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Uncertain
    Posts
    182
    Many reasons for doubting God. Not many reasons for belief.

    Lets not get complicated about it all.

    Reality is what one makes of it, reality is interpreated by how one percieves it and how one percieves it is how one feels in it.

    I wana feel good, there are times when i feel good and im moving right, the things i say i feel are in balance and the way i do action is good, im happy with it, i want to feel like that all the time, i actually consider it my responsibility to be moving right, correct motion for myself, in thought and in action.

    I suppose if anything is my biggest doubt it is me. I do doubt me alot in many things, from opening a car door to speaking to a load of people. Makes me think what is more important, belief in God or belief in me?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    Quote Originally Posted by Dlrow
    Many reasons for doubting God. Not many reasons for belief.

    Lets not get complicated about it all.
    We can keep it less complicated if you want, but I feel the matter is a very complicated one. I don't question my reasons for belief anymore, in fact I live that good a life, and that 'good' that I don't need to look at a book to know what is right. It has helped me, but I apply a new style to the old laws, ones that do not hurt others, which actually omits a lot of them actually.

    Reality is what one makes of it, reality is interpreated by how one percieves it and how one percieves it is how one feels in it.
    I agree, but to quote some "The truth hurts". And reality to some religious people, is very painful.

    I wana feel good, there are times when i feel good and im moving right, the things i say i feel are in balance and the way i do action is good, im happy with it, i want to feel like that all the time, i actually consider it my responsibility to be moving right, correct motion for myself, in thought and in action.
    Thats brilliant! I think one of the most important parts of being human is knowing what oneself actually is and believes, if thats stable, you can concentrate on understanding others more. There are those that would disagree with you though, what some may percieve as 'evil' may actually say the exact same sentences, but you'd see what they do as wrong.

    I suppose if anything is my biggest doubt it is me. I do doubt me alot in many things, from opening a car door to speaking to a load of people. Makes me think what is more important, belief in God or belief in me?
    Belief in yourself is far greater than belief in God. Belief in God does nothing whereas beliving in yourself can be far more helpul. Have faith in God, believe in yourself.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Sophomore
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Uncertain
    Posts
    182
    True
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    I hope your'e out of doubt now . You've always got someone to turn to when in doubt. I'm here as much as God.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Forum Professor Obviously's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,415
    Thank God for doubts. Without it we would all be gullible morons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dlrow
    Come out the doubt and you shall see truth:

    Until one confronts the doubts within themselves about God one will never have true connection with God.
    So in other words: doubt your doubts?

    lol :P
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Masters Degree geezer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    london
    Posts
    540
    Quote Originally Posted by Dlrow
    Many reasons for doubting God. Not many reasons for belief.
    What reasons do you have to doubt something that doesn't exist, thus you have no reasons to believe
    Quote Originally Posted by Dlrow
    Lets not get complicated about it all.
    What's complicated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dlrow
    Reality is what one makes of it, reality is interpreated by how one percieves it and how one percieves it is how one feels in it.
    Wrong, objective reality is unchangeable, it simply is.
    Your subjective reality is whatever you want it to be.
    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense - Buddha"
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Forum Sophomore
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Uncertain
    Posts
    182
    Yeah, reality is what you make of it, how you look at it.. We dont know what it looks like in its true absolute form so it does depend on how we interperate it, thats what i ment, but never mind, its not worth arguing about as we both understand this simplicity.

    Doubt your doubts even, doubt, to a certain extent is another word for denying something for a better something.

    All this blab i dont know why i bother, that is one my biggest doubts, why do i bother trying to express myself to others and put points across (that is a rhetorical question)..

    Another doubt of mine is;

    Bothering to try and make others understand what im getting at.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    Don't bother. If they can't understand what you are saying, they either aren't getting what you are saying or you aren't presenting it good enough.

    You can put in effort, but I'd not bother, mostyl most things are irrelevant. But I'm just rambling.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Forum Sophomore GrowlingDog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    At the gates of Sto-vo-kor
    Posts
    181
    I have no "doubt" that if God exists, that he would find a way of connecting with me other than having people tell me i should connect with him. As soon as God wants to connect with me personally, i'll be all ears, until then why should i believe the unproven words of any man about his existence.
    Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •