Notices
Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Judaism

  1. #1 Judaism 
    Forum Sophomore NimaRahnemoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Sunnyvale, California
    Posts
    156
    Have you ever noticed how a lot of famous scientists during WWII were Jewish? Some examples are Einstein, Fermi, Wigner... even Oppenheimer's wife was Jewish too. I just found that interesting.


    Last edited by NimaRahnemoon; August 8th, 2013 at 01:11 AM. Reason: Embarrassing spelling on a 15 y/o
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2 Re: Judaism 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
    Posts
    3,112
    Quote Originally Posted by Nima Rahnemoon
    Hmm ever notice how a ton of scientist during world war II were Jews? Some examples are Einstein, Fermi, Wigner... Oppenheimer's wife was Jewish too. I just found that kool.
    There is a very good reason for this. Judaism had the equivalent of the protestant revolution around 400 B.C. So all during the middle ages, while the Catholic church reserved access to the scriptures (and therefore the only academic type activities in existence) to a restricted priesthood class, the Jews were training their minds by studying the even more complex writings of the Torah and Mishna. Among the Jews studying was an acceptible activity of all men of the jewish faith since 400 B.C.

    If it wasn't for the sack of Alexandria and the subsequent fundamentalist fanasticism which swept through the Islamic world, I would have expected a large portion the great scientists in the modern era to have been moslems.


    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Key West, Florida, Earth
    Posts
    4,788
    There were other people working like Werner Von Braun as an example. He was the real brains behind the missles and propulsion systems.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Forum Sophomore NimaRahnemoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Sunnyvale, California
    Posts
    156
    Huh? So is there a correlation between a person's religion and their intelligence?

    My parents are muslim but i'm not. I should become muslim to become more intelligent. I don't think so...

    I think it was a coincidence that a lot of great thinkers were Jews.
    Last edited by NimaRahnemoon; August 8th, 2013 at 01:10 AM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
    Posts
    3,112
    Quote Originally Posted by Nima Rahnemoon
    Huh? So your saying religion affects intellegence?
    Dam! Lol, my parents are muslim but i'm not. I should become muslim to become more intellegent. I don't think so...
    I think it was a coincidence that a lot of great thinkers were Jews.
    I never said religion affects intellegence although maybe it does, I wouldn't know. But social attitudes and values certainly affect a cultural group's acheivements in certain types of activities. If you belong to a culture that thinks that book larnin is for sissies and fools or you are raised in a culture where fighting ability and success in battle is essential for male integrity then if you are a man you are not likely to be a scholar are you (and lets not even started on the attitudes about women, ok)? These values have an effect long after they change. Have you ever heard this one? "If it is good enough for me and my father then it is good enough for you."

    Success in any endeavor requires passion and dedication far more than anything like IQ. I think you over rate genetics. Much of human function comes from use and practice. If you never use your legs, do realize that they will wither and becomes useless. If you do not use brain......need I say more?

    Coincidence? Just luck do you think? Some cosmic lottery picks someone at random and poof they are an Einstein. People do not die of starvation in third world countries because they are stupid or because of any coincidence. So how many of your randomly chosen Einsteins starved to death as children? How many were slaughtered or enslaved. How many never had a teacher or any opportunity to develop their mind. How many were simply ridiculed because they wanted to use there mind in society where that had no value. Coincidence? Yeah right.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Bachelors Degree
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    405
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler
    There were other people working like Werner Von Braun as an example. He was the real brains behind the missles and propulsion systems.
    Yes, about the only man of talent the Germans had left. Him and Heisenberg, the originator of the Uncertainty Principle. The Nazi's lunatic racial policies meant that the greatest scientific minds were either deprived of their living or had already left the country. In such ways they guaranteed their defeat.

    It's not a coincidence, Nima, it's a cultural difference. A love of learning for learning's sake is actually quite a rare thing, but the Jews have it, and the consequences are all around you if you just think of the professions you find Jewish people working in. Which is to say they are nearly all in the professions, and not working in Burger King.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7 Re: Judaism 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    50
    y
    Quote Originally Posted by Nima Rahnemoon
    Hmm ever notice how a ton of scientist during world war II were Jews? Some examples are Einstein, Fermi, Wigner... Oppenheimer's wife was Jewish too. I just found that kool.
    Why would you say "a ton of scientists were jews" ?
    Lets change the scentence: "Hmm ever notice how quite a few scientists during world war II were Jews?
    One thing that's for sure is that you're not a person with the Jewish faith. It shows a litlle more respect, to say it this way, for example.
    There's nothing cool about a war which killed millions of people.

    A ton of people, is that a nice memory?
    Cause that's what disturbed us th most.

    And so what , if they were people with the jewish nationality.
    That's old nieuws.
    "IT" made it quiet, so you can be at ease, "IT" made it tastefull so you can eat, "IT" made it real good so you can make a lot, and make your blood boil, so you can simmer down.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8 Re: Judaism 
    Forum Freshman Yevaud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by Nima Rahnemoon
    Hmm ever notice how a ton of scientist during world war II were Jews? Some examples are Einstein, Fermi, Wigner... Oppenheimer's wife was Jewish too. I just found that kool.
    Simple, really. Intellectualism is and has been quite respected in the Jewish community.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silas
    Yes, about the only man of talent the Germans had left. Him and Heisenberg, the originator of the Uncertainty Principle.
    They still had several well-known and respected scientists available:

    • Max Born
      Otto Hahn
      Frederick Joliet-Curie
      Max Planck
      Fritz Strassman


    But yeah, by chasing out all of those *pesky* Jewish scientists, they pretty much lost themselves the war.

    And a good thing, too.
    *Welcome, my friends, to the show that never ends*
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by J.B

    Happeh, history has shown that the barbaric nature of the middle east muslim is not to be trusted.
    History, recent history, as ophiolite, skinwalker etc can verify, is filled with people who believe debate is censoring any opinion counter to their position. Any proof is not legitimate. Any claim is hate, not a rational observation.

    These people, like yourself, are insecure. They know their position is lies and calmuny, so they must chase reality and truth away with any method in their possession. If those methods include breaking common courtesy or accepted moral beliefs, they do not care. The only thing they care about is protecting the fragile construction of falsehood that they know will crumble at the slightest inspection of validity.


    J.B. History has shown that the barbaric nature of the middle east Israeli is not to be trusted.


    I have just paraphrased your exact post to demonstrate the double standards here. I predict Skinwalker will swoop in and delete the exact same sentence you wrote, except is says israeli instead of muslim.

    Hypocrites.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    J.B
    J.B is offline
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by Happeh
    J.B. History has shown that the barbaric nature of the middle east Israeli is not to be trusted.


    I have just paraphrased your exact post to demonstrate the double standards here. I predict Skinwalker will swoop in and delete the exact same sentence you wrote, except is says israeli instead of muslim.

    Hypocrites.
    It's not a double standard, once you replaced the word muslim with Israeli you then have created a false statement.

    Muslims injoy and are famous for straping bombs to themselves and blowing themselves and others up.

    This is clear proof of the barbaric nature of muslims.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    J.B
    J.B is offline
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    27
    IQ and scientific achievement
    According to many studies, Ashkenazi Jews have the highest average intelligence of any ethnic group as measured by IQ, leading East Asians, who also perform highly in IQ. Many of these studies indicate that the primary Ashkenazi advantage is in verbal reasoning and the East Asian advantage in spatial reasoning.

    Ashkenazi Jews also perform highly in correlated areas. For example, while only 0.25% of the world population is Jewish, Jewish scientists make up 28% of Nobel prize winners in physics, chemistry, medicine, and economics, and have accounted for more than half of world chess champions.[12] In the U.S., Ashkenazi Jews represent 2% of the population, but have won 40% of the US Nobel Prizes in science, and 25% of the ACM Turing Awards (the Nobel-equivalent in computer science).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard SkinWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Grand Prairie, TX
    Posts
    2,377
    Quote Originally Posted by J.B
    Muslims injoy and are famous for straping bombs to themselves and blowing themselves and others up.

    This is clear proof of the barbaric nature of muslims.
    I would argue that this is "clear proof" of the barbaric nature of people, particularly those with deeply held religious convictions.

    For further evidence to support my assertion, I would point you to the number of violent crimes committed in the United States in the name of religion.

    The Yates murder of her children in Texas. The mother, also in Texas, that killed her infant by cutting off her arms. Both claimed to have been instructed by the Christian god to commit these acts. The woman in California (as I recall) who began shooting people in her post office was observed "intensely praying" just prior to her violent outburst and subsequent suicide. And on and on from abortion clinic bombings to the bombing of the Murrah Fed building in OKC and etc.

    The thing that a lot of these people had in common was a deeply convicted set of beliefs.

    From a moderator's point of view, however, I want to say that this argument of "this religious cult is better than that one" needs to stop. The arguments are scientifically unfounded (citing wikipedia IQ claims hardly constitutes empirical data) and hateful. The latter being a clear violation of The Science Forum rules.

    I suggest you continue these discussions back at sciforums, where they seem more acceptable.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Junior Cuete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    4722,28 miles away from home
    Posts
    218
    Quote Originally Posted by J.B
    IQ and scientific achievement
    According to many studies, Ashkenazi Jews have the highest average intelligence of any ethnic group as measured by IQ, leading East Asians, who also perform highly in IQ.
    Which studies?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard SkinWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Grand Prairie, TX
    Posts
    2,377
    The wikipedia article that J.B. linked to mentions "many studies" but doesn't cite many. Indeed, I noticed only one real study, which looked more like a meta-analysis than an actual attempt to obtain empirical data. This "study" doesn't even appear to have been published for peer review, rather it was simply posted to the 'net.

    This is why I caution J.B. and Happeh against continued argument of this point. If there is real data to discuss, this is different. To date, there is only opinions, mostly second-hand speculations and emotion, that are being presented in a hateful manner. That isn't in-line with the rules of TSF.

    I'm sorry if the rules aren't acceptable to either of you, but as guests, you must abide by them. Posting here is not your right, it is allowed for those willing to abide by the rules. If you want freedom to rant on your soap-boxes, start a blog.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    J.B
    J.B is offline
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    27
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
    Posts
    3,112
    When it was me (a non Jewish person) making a few objective observations it was ok. But this Jewish guy tooting his own horn is tasteless, annoying and even foolish. The truly superior intellegence would be more carefull about acting superior. This goes to support my viewpoint that everyone is smart in their own special way and also stupid in their own special way.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard SkinWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Grand Prairie, TX
    Posts
    2,377
    Quote Originally Posted by J.B
    Unsatisfactory. This is a community for scientific discussions. As such, we are accustomed to something more along the lines of specific citations to peer reviewed journals rather than a list of google links. Most of us have access to databases of peer review journals, so don't be afraid to give a proper citation.

    Something like:

    Author, name (1935). Title of wonderful study here. Annals of wonderful shit, 13(69), 1234-1235.

    If you can't do that, it would seem that you are simply making unsubstantiated noise.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    Forum Senior
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    309
    Quote Originally Posted by Nima Rahnemoon
    Huh? So your saying religion affects intellegence?
    acually, some religions make you smarter because you have to meditate, a psycologicly proven way to strengthen your mind if you do it right.
    I don't suffer from insanity, i enjoy every minute of it

    the road to succes is never paved or clearly marked
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard SkinWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Grand Prairie, TX
    Posts
    2,377
    Quote Originally Posted by chamilton333
    Quote Originally Posted by Nima Rahnemoon
    Huh? So your saying religion affects intellegence?
    acually, some religions make you smarter because you have to meditate, a psycologicly proven way to strengthen your mind if you do it right.
    Proved by whom and how? And do you mean physiologically or psychologically?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20  
    Forum Senior
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    309
    Quote Originally Posted by SkinWalker
    Quote Originally Posted by chamilton333
    Quote Originally Posted by Nima Rahnemoon
    Huh? So your saying religion affects intellegence?
    acually, some religions make you smarter because you have to meditate, a psycologicly proven way to strengthen your mind if you do it right.
    Proved by whom and how? And do you mean physiologically or psychologically?
    http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8317

    People who meditate say the practice restores their energy, and some claim they need less sleep as a result. Many studies have reported that the brain works differently during meditation – brainwave patterns change and neuronal firing patterns synchronise.
    They found that meditating actually increases the thickness of the cortex in areas involved in attention and sensory processing, such as the prefrontal cortex and the right anterior insula.

    “You are exercising it while you meditate, and it gets bigger,” she says. The finding is in line with studies showing that accomplished musicians, athletes and linguists all have thickening in relevant areas of the cortex. It is further evidence, says Lazar, that yogis “aren’t just sitting there doing nothing".



    this is from the site, read it.
    I don't suffer from insanity, i enjoy every minute of it

    the road to succes is never paved or clearly marked
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #21  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard SkinWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Grand Prairie, TX
    Posts
    2,377
    Cool.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •