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Thread: Eve, if God were loving, would have been the mother of Jesus

  1. #1 Eve, if God were loving, would have been the mother of Jesus 
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    Eve, if God were loving, would have been the mother of Jesus.

    The Bible would have us believe that a loving God sent a genocidal flood to wipe out most of mankind and then after turning evil again, sent Jesus to forgive.

    As a loving parent I forgive completely and immediately.

    God, as the epitome of a parent would do the same.

    This would mean that Eve would have born Jesus and received forgiveness at that point. The justice of God is swift.

    Eve was the sinner and the one in need of forgiveness, No chastisement of many innocents is then required by God and He does not need to break His own law and commandment of not killing humans.

    Needless to say that any conflagration between God, as most think of Him, and even modern man, would not be a fair and just encounter, therefore the flood myth is just that, a myth, and is not what a true God would do.

    Logically and spiritually, the Bible cannot be seen as advocating genocide. Even if it says God used it.
    To think that God would sow many souls and gain only 8 out of millions is to think that God is a poor farmer at best and perhaps crazy to try such a venture again.

    We must all pay for our own sins Eve, no different.
    To forgive Her is to save God’s reputation as a genocidal maniac.

    This makes Eve the most likely person to be the Mother of Jesus and allows for the birth of the trinity.
    If not, then how else to explain the Trinity. In the time of Marie, Jesus was yet to be born and could not then be part of the Trinity.

    Regards
    DL


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    Sure, but if you want to think about it that way there's no clear reason why a forgiving, omnipotent god wouldn't just take the effect of "original sin" for anyone who prayed to him asking for it to be taken away. Or couldn't just forgive people AFTER they die and get a taste of hell (at which point I suspect they would be very repentant for their sins). Or any number of other solutions that doesn't involve good, well-meaning people going to hell simply because they were unlucky enough to be born in a part of the world where christianity isn't the dominant religion.


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  4. #3 Re: Eve, if God were loving, would have been the mother of J 
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    I agreee with you, Greatest I am
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scifor Refugee
    Sure, but if you want to think about it that way there's no clear reason why a forgiving, omnipotent god wouldn't just take the effect of "original sin" for anyone who prayed to him asking for it to be taken away. Or couldn't just forgive people AFTER they die and get a taste of hell (at which point I suspect they would be very repentant for their sins). Or any number of other solutions that doesn't involve good, well-meaning people going to hell simply because they were unlucky enough to be born in a part of the world where christianity isn't the dominant religion.
    In my reality, God does not need a hell to store mistakes. He does not make any.

    Further proof may be found in scripture that says that after the flood, He said that He would hurt man no more.

    I do not believe in the flood or a God that repents His actions.

    Hard to teach us to revere life by taking it.

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  6. #5 Re: Eve, if God were loving, would have been the mother of J 
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    Quote Originally Posted by sak
    I agreee with you, Greatest I am
    Thanks.

    Tell a little of your beliefs.

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  8. #7 Re: Eve, if God were loving, would have been the mother of J 
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    This is all good reason not to buy into the magical understanding of Christianity.
    http://www.astahost.com/magic-christianity-t15700.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Eve, if God were loving, would have been the mother of Jesus.

    This would mean that Eve would have born Jesus and received forgiveness at that point. The justice of God is swift.
    What is the this? Jesus the magic man theology? No matter what the situation all you got to do is send a jesus and he'll make it all better? If indeed Jesus was the solution to every conceivable problem then perhaps what you say would be true. However this is complete nonsense. Eve already had the presence of God in her life and it did not do her any good.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    As a loving parent I forgive completely and immediately.
    Oh really? So everything your kids do is ok? They can never do anything wrong? You just pretend that they never do anything wrong? Nothing they do has any consequences?

    I assume that you are not one of these nightmare parents who would say yes and that the answer to these questions is no. But if that is the case then what does all this "forgive completely and immediately" that you are talking about mean exactly? Could it mean that you continue to love them and continue to do what is best for them no matter what it might cost you - no matter that it might require you to do things which you consider morally repugnant? I think not. Most human parents put far greater limits on the love they have for their children. No you would probably sit back helplessly watching them destroy themselves and tell yourself that there is nothing you can do. That is what most human parents do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    God, as the epitome of a parent would do the same.
    I do not think so. I think he would do better than that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    The Bible would have us believe that a loving God sent a genocidal flood to wipe out most of mankind and then after turning evil again, sent Jesus to forgive.
    Yes God did and He did not like it one little bit, read the story as it is in the Bible. We really rubbed God's face in the mud that time. Our rebellion against every good and decent behavior was so great we gave Him no other way to save us from ourselves. Playing the nice loving and forgiving parent just wasn't working at all and so instead of leaving us to abuse our childrent and each other without any restraint He did what our redemption required even though it meant that He would have to act against His nature as creator and be the destroyer instead. But He said that He would never do such a thing for our sake again. However He did things differently after that so that it would never come to that again.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Eve was the sinner and the one in need of forgiveness, No chastisement of many innocents is then required by God and He does not need to break His own law and commandment of not killing humans.
    So all human beings need is forgiveness? Do you really believe in this absolutely ridiculous understanding of Christianity? Of course you don't. Well maybe you did once, how should I know how gullable you might have been? So if that is case and you are not just constructing an idiotic strawman, then I congratulate you for finally realizing that such a stupid Christianity doesn't make sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Needless to say that any conflagration between God, as most think of Him, and even modern man, would not be a fair and just encounter, therefore the flood myth is just that, a myth, and is not what a true God would do.
    So when did you begin to suspect that Walt Disney version of the story of Robbin Hood wasn't historical? Did the shock of this realization that animals couldn't talk make you decide that there was no truth to the story of Robin Hood at all? LOL lol LOL lol



    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    This makes Eve the most likely person to be the Mother of Jesus and allows for the birth of the trinity.
    If not, then how else to explain the Trinity. In the time of Marie, Jesus was yet to be born and could not then be part of the Trinity.
    Birth of the Trinity??? Where in the world did you get that cockamamie theology? LOL LOL LOL

    The Trinity is only the doctrine of those who believe that Jesus is God the creator of the universe who became a helpless human infant to grow up and live as one of us.
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    mitchellmckain

    You misread.

    Greatest I am wrote:

    "As a loving parent I forgive completely and immediately."

    You will notice that this statement indicates that my children are the same as all others. Good and bad.

    As to Jesus; a great Rabbi. Nothing else.

    I also do not believe in talking snakes or the other instances of magic in scripture.

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    You misread.

    Greatest I am wrote:

    "As a loving parent I forgive completely and immediately."

    You will notice that this statement indicates that my children are the same as all others. Good and bad.
    No I think you misread me. I think that God forgives completely and immediately in the same sense that you do. I certainly do not accept the innane idea of God as one who finds it difficult to forgive. The issue of contention here however is that you imagine that forgiving completely and immediately means that you would do things differently than God did, and this is what prompted my questions which have NOTHING to do with whether your children are different from any other children but what it means to say that you "forgive completely and immediately".

    Does it mean that you act like everything your kids do is ok? If so then I must dispute the idea that this makes you a good parent and if not then you see that it is not all about forgiveness. Does your forgiving them "completely and immediately" mean that what they have done has no consequences to them? If so then I strongly refute the idea that you are a good parent and if not then the difference between you and God has nothing to do with any ability to forgive but to do with your inability to see clearly the problems and necessities in raising His children, like one of these ignorant busibodies who act like they know better than you about how to raise your children.

    I assumed that you are not a bad parent and that your forgiving them "completely and immediately" does not mean that you would fail to teach them that their actions have consequences. But I do suggest that you do not really compare to God's willingness to do every difficult, humiliating and morally repugnant thing that the redemption of His children might require. Part of this is a difficulty in seeing exactly what your children do require. You cannot control your children and the more you try the worse you make it, so how do you stop them from doing foolish things that lead to their own destruction? Ultimately, you cannot -- nor I -- nor even God Himself. But of the three I would bet on God doing the best job.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    As to Jesus; a great Rabbi. Nothing else.
    But that belief is in utter opposition to the doctrine of Trinity, and thus your comments regarding the Trinity don't make any sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    I also do not believe in talking snakes or the other instances of magic in scripture.
    Then why do suggest that all God had to do was Eve give birth to Jesus? Why do you think that would solve anything?
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    mitchellmckain

    You wrote
    “Does it mean that you act like everything your kids do is ok?”

    No. Punishment and discipline exists.


    You wrote
    “I think that God forgives completely and immediately in the same sense that you do.”

    Not quite. As stated , If God would have forgiven Eve immediately then He would not have needed the flood.

    If the flood was meant to kill giants, then God just did not have to give angels access to our women. I always wondered why He would allow these to be born if they were to be the main cause of the flood.

    Further, to me it seems strange that scripture would show all above us coming down to abuse us sexually.

    Angels with woman, God with woman. God seems to be very free with the sexual parts of humans. Bestiality if you ask me.

    Try to find trinity in scripture. It is not there.
    Which of the trinity actually decided on Marie? Did Jesus select His own mother and enter onto Her?
    Incest.


    You wrote
    “Then why do suggest that all God had to do was Eve give birth to Jesus? Why do you think that would solve anything?”

    Making Eve the mother of Jesus would forgive man in the beginning when only one needed forgiveness. Or killing.
    To wait till millions needed it and send a flood instead of forgiveness to solve the now larger problem is not what God would do. God would not use genocide. Much better to kill one than millions if He was setting Himself up to kill at all. Surely God is smart enough to figure this out.

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Not quite. As stated , If God would have forgiven Eve immediately then He would not have needed the flood.
    Disconnected situation in the sense that God forgiving Eve had absolutely nothing to do with the later need for the flood. I think the reasons why the flood became necessary can be found in how God did things differently after the flood to make sure that such a miserable situation would not repeat itself. Why did He not do this the first time? Because it is very clear to me that in order to order avoid repeating the very unpleasant necessity of the flood He basically created the inevitablity of something that most people consider the greatest evil in human history. Can you figure out what that is?


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    If the flood was meant to kill giants, then God just did not have to give angels access to our women. I always wondered why He would allow these to be born if they were to be the main cause of the flood.

    Further, to me it seems strange that scripture would show all above us coming down to abuse us sexually.

    Angels with woman, God with woman. God seems to be very free with the sexual parts of humans. Bestiality if you ask me.
    I do not buy into that interpretation either. I do not believe that the sons of God ever refer to angels anywhere in scripture. Instead it is quite clear in numerous places (Deut 14:1, Is 43:6, Ps 82, Ex 21:6) that the sons of God refer to the human beings that He has chosen to communicate with. Thus the beginning of Genesis chapter 6 is the answer to the age old question of who did Cain and Seth marry? Their sisters? No. "The sons of God", Cain and Seth, "saw that the daughters of men", daughters of homo-sapiens other than Adam and Eve, "were fair; and they took to wife such of them as they chose".

    The offspring of these unions were not fairy tale giants but as it explains in the last sentence of Gen 6:4, were the mighty men of old and men of reknown. In other words these became the leaders of human civilization at that time, including those same men listed in the preceding geneology which claims that they had very long life spans. If it is true that they lived such long lives then it only makes sense that with such advantages they would become the leaders of human civilization, don't you think? However even if they did not live such long lives I nevertheless believe that these decendents of Adam and Eve invented human civilization and so again it only makes sense that these would be its leaders.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Try to find trinity in scripture. It is not there.
    No it is not. I have in fact discussed this in numerous other threads. But I do not think you are really interested so I will not waste my time on that topic here, when if you are really interested you can find this discussion elsewhere.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Making Eve the mother of Jesus would forgive man in the beginning when only one needed forgiveness.
    So you DO think that some sort of magical forgiveness is the solution to all human problems?

    In any case, all this nonsense of blaiming everything on Eve has got to stop. In the context of scripture it just will not wash. Instead it is Adam who is named as responsible for what happened (e.g. 1 Corinthians 15:22). He is the one who started this habit of blaming everything and everyone (including God) but himself for his own mistake, and it is this habit which is responsible for our predicament. It is also this habit which makes forgiveness meaningless, for how can someone be forgiven when that person refuses to admit to doing anything wrong?


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    To wait till millions needed it and send a flood instead of forgiveness to solve the now larger problem is not what God would do. God would not use genocide. Much better to kill one than millions if He was setting Himself up to kill at all. Surely God is smart enough to figure this out.
    God did not wait. God took action immediately to counteract what Adam had done changing the nature of human life in order to teach us the lesson that Adam did not learn - that refusing responsiblility for your mistakes can only make things worse. Like if you don't plan't your seeds then you don't get any food, and sitting around blaiming God or the weather just isn't going to help. We see God trying to teach Cain the same lesson but instead of trying to learn from Abel what he had done wrong Cain did a very typical human thing and simply killed Abel in order to take what he had. Such is the self-destructive pattern of human habits throughout history.
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    mitchellmckain

    I have no idea as to which evil is the biggest and best.

    Yes. Forgiveness can be given regardless of the culprits admitting to doing wrong or not.
    Forgiveness is given whether it is properly received or not.
    What is in question is the ability to forgive, not the ability to accept it.

    You wrote that God did not wait. The population went from two to millions before God acted.

    What do you mean He did not wait. He certainly did which is what prompted this whole thread.

    Look again for the first time.

    One of the reason I do not believe in the flood is the fact that it is not a logical course of action for a God who teaches veneration of life. For Him to then turn around, break His own laws and kill millions of people, is just out of character. No?

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    DL,

    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    I have no idea as to which evil is the biggest and best.
    That is not what I said. Anyway what I am talking about is war. I am saying that God is directly responsible for existence of war. Most Christians would find such a claim shocking but most atheists would take to this idea gleefully. But this does explain God reluctance to do this before the flood. But looking at the devastation to the world after the flood God was appalled and said in Genesis 8:21, "I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the imagination of men's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I ever again destroy every living creature as I have done." God did what what our salvation required but He was not happy about it and refused to ever do such a thing again saying mankind simply did not deserve such a sacrifice for its sake. I think that despite the fact that many people suggest that God wipe us out and start over again, many people would agree with God's sentiment here, that we are not worth such a cost to the earth.

    But God did not give up on mankind whom He had adopted as His children and did another terrible thing to avoid ever having to do something like the flood again which He in fact refused to do for our sake ever again. This is found in Genesis chapter 11. I think what God saw people doing, building a civilization which the tower of Babel represented, was hardly anything new and God could see where it was going because He had seen it all before the flood. So God prevented this by scattering the human race and confusing their languages. Can you see how the direct consequence of this must be all the wars of human history? Why would a God of peace and love do such a thing? Because there is something much much worse than war. Mankind united in a single social and philosophical system is worse. Because of the evil habits of mankind starting with Adam, the unity of mankind could only result in one thing and that is opression and systematic abuse and evil with no possibility for freedom, change or hope. With the evil of war came also the possibility for freedom and change.

    Thus the lie is revealed in the common claim by organized religion that God is not a God of confusion and therefore God must want everyone to believe the same thing. BS! The diversity of human thought, culture and religion is a creation of God for our own salvation. Only by learning to accept and embrace this diversity can the problem of war be overcome without creating something much worse.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Yes. Forgiveness can be given regardless of the culprits admitting to doing wrong or not. Forgiveness is given whether it is properly received or not.
    What is in question is the ability to forgive, not the ability to accept it.
    Yes God can and does forgive immediately more quickly and easily than you ever could. This is simply not the point, which is that all the forgiveness in the world cannot make a person acknowledge his error and to change his bad habits.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    You wrote that God did not wait. The population went from two to millions before God acted.

    What do you mean He did not wait. He certainly did which is what prompted this whole thread.
    But he did not wait. I explained how God immediately attacked the root of the problem trying to teach people to change what was wrong, and I beleive that these stories are just examples of many such stories which are untold. The problem was that the creator God of peace and love just did not cut it when it came to trying change people who refused acknowledge that they ever made a mistake but only blamed everything and everyone else. What we needed was a destroyer God of wrath and judgement to give us a kick in the butt that we could not ignore.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    One of the reason I do not believe in the flood is the fact that it is not a logical course of action for a God who teaches veneration of life. For Him to then turn around, break His own laws and kill millions of people, is just out of character. No?
    YES that is EXACTLY right, but unlike most parents, God was willing to lay down his self-righteous identity and adherence to His principles and do what our well being required, rather than simply give up on us. It was not an easy thing but one filled with pain and anguish. Read Genesis chapter 6 again. It was for the purpose of creating children that God created the entire universe, but looking at the result, "the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that the imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually", and realizing that in order to redeem the situation He was going to have to change from the creator God of peace and love to the destroyer God of wrath and judgement, Genesis 6:6 says "the Lord was sorry that He had made man, and it grieved Him to His heart."
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    DL,

    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    I have no idea as to which evil is the biggest and best.
    That is not what I said. Anyway what I am talking about is war. I am saying that God is directly responsible for existence of war. Most Christians would find such a claim shocking but most atheists would take to this idea gleefully. But this does explain God reluctance to do this before the flood. But looking at the devastation to the world after the flood God was appalled and said in Genesis 8:21, "I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the imagination of men's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I ever again destroy every living creature as I have done." God did what what our salvation required but He was not happy about it and refused to ever do such a thing again saying mankind simply did not deserve such a sacrifice for its sake. I think that despite the fact that many people suggest that God wipe us out and start over again, many people would agree with God's sentiment here, that we are not worth such a cost to the earth.
    How quick you accept God goofing up.
    Then again, many wait for God to return to fix what, by definition, as a work of God, and perfect, this world.

    Just for use, God will acknowledge for some thast He goofed.

    Come on. Is your faith in God so low that you cannot see the perfection that He maintains.

    Put things of the young like talking snakes behind you. Then you may see forward.


    But God did not give up on mankind whom He had adopted as His children and did another terrible thing to avoid ever having to do something like the flood again which He in fact refused to do for our sake ever again. This is found in Genesis chapter 11. I think what God saw people doing, building a civilization which the tower of Babel represented, was hardly anything new and God could see where it was going because He had seen it all before the flood. So God prevented this by scattering the human race and confusing their languages. Can you see how the direct consequence of this must be all the wars of human history? Why would a God of peace and love do such a thing? Because there is something much much worse than war. Mankind united in a single social and philosophical system is worse. Because of the evil habits of mankind starting with Adam, the unity of mankind could only result in one thing and that is opression and systematic abuse and evil with no possibility for freedom, change or hope. With the evil of war came also the possibility for freedom and change.

    Thus the lie is revealed in the common claim by organized religion that God is not a God of confusion and therefore God must want everyone to believe the same thing. BS! The diversity of human thought, culture and religion is a creation of God for our own salvation. Only by learning to accept and embrace this diversity can the problem of war be overcome without creating something much worse.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Yes. Forgiveness can be given regardless of the culprits admitting to doing wrong or not. Forgiveness is given whether it is properly received or not.
    What is in question is the ability to forgive, not the ability to accept it.
    Yes God can and does forgive immediately more quickly and easily than you ever could. This is simply not the point, which is that all the forgiveness in the world cannot make a person acknowledge his error and to change his bad habits.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    You wrote that God did not wait. The population went from two to millions before God acted.

    What do you mean He did not wait. He certainly did which is what prompted this whole thread.
    But he did not wait. I explained how God immediately attacked the root of the problem trying to teach people to change what was wrong, and I beleive that these stories are just examples of many such stories which are untold. The problem was that the creator God of peace and love just did not cut it when it came to trying change people who refused acknowledge that they ever made a mistake but only blamed everything and everyone else. What we needed was a destroyer God of wrath and judgement to give us a kick in the butt that we could not ignore.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    One of the reason I do not believe in the flood is the fact that it is not a logical course of action for a God who teaches veneration of life. For Him to then turn around, break His own laws and kill millions of people, is just out of character. No?
    YES that is EXACTLY right, but unlike most parents, God was willing to lay down his self-righteous identity and adherence to His principles and do what our well being required, rather than simply give up on us. It was not an easy thing but one filled with pain and anguish. Read Genesis chapter 6 again. It was for the purpose of creating children that God created the entire universe, but looking at the result, "the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that the imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually", and realizing that in order to redeem the situation He was going to have to change from the creator God of peace and love to the destroyer God of wrath and judgement, Genesis 6:6 says "the Lord was sorry that He had made man, and it grieved Him to His heart."
    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    DL,

    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    I have no idea as to which evil is the biggest and best.
    That is not what I said. Anyway what I am talking about is war. I am saying that God is directly responsible for existence of war. Most Christians would find such a claim shocking but most atheists would take to this idea gleefully. But this does explain God reluctance to do this before the flood. But looking at the devastation to the world after the flood God was appalled and said in Genesis 8:21, "I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the imagination of men's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I ever again destroy every living creature as I have done." God did what what our salvation required but He was not happy about it and refused to ever do such a thing again saying mankind simply did not deserve such a sacrifice for its sake. I think that despite the fact that many people suggest that God wipe us out and start over again, many people would agree with God's sentiment here, that we are not worth such a cost to the earth.
    How quick you accept God goofing up.
    Then again, many wait for God to return to fix what, by definition, as a work of God, and perfect, this world.

    Just for use, God will acknowledge for some thast He goofed.

    Come on. Is your faith in God so low that you cannot see the perfection that He maintains.

    Put things of the young like talking snakes behind you. Then you may see forward.


    But God did not give up on mankind whom He had adopted as His children and did another terrible thing to avoid ever having to do something like the flood again which He in fact refused to do for our sake ever again. This is found in Genesis chapter 11. I think what God saw people doing, building a civilization which the tower of Babel represented, was hardly anything new and God could see where it was going because He had seen it all before the flood. So God prevented this by scattering the human race and confusing their languages. Can you see how the direct consequence of this must be all the wars of human history? Why would a God of peace and love do such a thing? Because there is something much much worse than war. Mankind united in a single social and philosophical system is worse. Because of the evil habits of mankind starting with Adam, the unity of mankind could only result in one thing and that is opression and systematic abuse and evil with no possibility for freedom, change or hope. With the evil of war came also the possibility for freedom and change.

    Thus the lie is revealed in the common claim by organized religion that God is not a God of confusion and therefore God must want everyone to believe the same thing. BS! The diversity of human thought, culture and religion is a creation of God for our own salvation. Only by learning to accept and embrace this diversity can the problem of war be overcome without creating something much worse.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Yes. Forgiveness can be given regardless of the culprits admitting to doing wrong or not. Forgiveness is given whether it is properly received or not.
    What is in question is the ability to forgive, not the ability to accept it.
    Yes God can and does forgive immediately more quickly and easily than you ever could. This is simply not the point, which is that all the forgiveness in the world cannot make a person acknowledge his error and to change his bad habits.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    You wrote that God did not wait. The population went from two to millions before God acted.

    What do you mean He did not wait. He certainly did which is what prompted this whole thread.
    But he did not wait. I explained how God immediately attacked the root of the problem trying to teach people to change what was wrong, and I beleive that these stories are just examples of many such stories which are untold. The problem was that the creator God of peace and love just did not cut it when it came to trying change people who refused acknowledge that they ever made a mistake but only blamed everything and everyone else. What we needed was a destroyer God of wrath and judgement to give us a kick in the butt that we could not ignore.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    One of the reason I do not believe in the flood is the fact that it is not a logical course of action for a God who teaches veneration of life. For Him to then turn around, break His own laws and kill millions of people, is just out of character. No?
    YES that is EXACTLY right, but unlike most parents, God was willing to lay down his self-righteous identity and adherence to His principles and do what our well being required, rather than simply give up on us. It was not an easy thing but one filled with pain and anguish. Read Genesis chapter 6 again. It was for the purpose of creating children that God created the entire universe, but looking at the result, "the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that the imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually", and realizing that in order to redeem the situation He was going to have to change from the creator God of peace and love to the destroyer God of wrath and judgement, Genesis 6:6 says "the Lord was sorry that He had made man, and it grieved Him to His heart."
    Regards
    DL
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    How quick you accept God goofing up.
    ...sigh... Your predictability is becoming monotonous.

    So predictable that I included an explanation why there was no goofing going on, but apparently it went completely over your head. But then I don't think you are really interested in thinking things through here but simply venting and letting off steam no matter how irrational your responses might be.

    Clearly war is a bad thing and well worth avoiding. It all depended on us. Refusing to learn what God sought to teach us over and over again by any peaceful means, mean't that stronger measures were required. The result is that nothing wakes us up to the danger of human arrogance and callousness better than the unparalleled misery of the wars in our history. This is the strongest motivation for people to change and nothing else really works. So it is by constantly remembering the holocaust and the devastation of the atomic bombs that we work for social change for the better.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Then again, many wait for God to return to fix what, by definition, as a work of God, and perfect, this world.
    Well your incredibly simple-minded theology serves its purpose I suppose. It convinces you that God does not exist. That is not something that I would argue with you about because it is clear to me that even if God does exist then He does not want you to believe that He exists. I at least hope that by not believing in God's existence, you can ultimately learn that there is no one to blame for things except yourself.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Just for use, God will acknowledge for some thast He goofed.

    Come on. Is your faith in God so low that you cannot see the perfection that He maintains.

    Put things of the young like talking snakes behind you. Then you may see forward.
    On the contrary it is you who have not fully put childish things behind you. Do you believe in God or not. It seems perfectly clear to me at least that you should not. So what seems to be your obstacle to fully embracing atheism. I would like to help you to do so since it is clear to me that this is in your best interest.

    So tell me why you should believe in God and perhaps I can help disabuse you of such notions. Clearly if God does not exist then it makes no sense that you should complain about how He supposedly did things.

    Do you still have some feeling of resentment and hostility for this God that does not exist? Surely you understand that you cannot really call yourself an atheist while your harbor such irrational feelings for an imaginary being. Why don't you tell me about these feeling so that I can help you find their true source and finally give a decent burial to this ghost that troubles you so much.
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    mitchellmckain

    Unfortunately, your assumptions are wrong.

    I believe in God but not the loser that most read from scripture.
    Mine kept the state of perfection from the beginning till today.

    I do not wait for Him / It to fix what ain't broke.

    Most believe the opposite and wait for Him to admit failure and fix His mess. Too bad for them, they wait in vain.

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    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    I believe in God but not the loser that most read from scripture.
    Mine kept the state of perfection from the beginning till today.

    I do not wait for Him / It to fix what ain't broke.

    Most believe the opposite and wait for Him to admit failure and fix His mess. Too bad for them, they wait in vain.
    But you have not answered my question. What makes you think that a god exists?

    But let me ask some more questions.

    So what is this god that you believe in? Zeus? Woden? Set? Thor? Baal? Ormazd? Amaterasu? Shiva? What is it the god of? What tickles the fancy of this god of yours? Has this god of your done anything of note? Is there any reason at all to for us to sit up a listen to anything about this god? What do get out of touting this god of yours (does it pay your)? Do you have a contract with it? Does this god do whatever you say? What can your god do?

    So the world is perfect? Is everthing perfect? Are all the people in the world perfect? Is everything in the world perfect? Is everything that happens in the world perfect? Is your god responsible for everything that happens in the world? Are people responsible for anything? Can people do any wrong?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    I believe in God but not the loser that most read from scripture.
    Mine kept the state of perfection from the beginning till today.

    I do not wait for Him / It to fix what ain't broke.

    Most believe the opposite and wait for Him to admit failure and fix His mess. Too bad for them, they wait in vain.
    But you have not answered my question. What makes you think that a god exists?

    But let me ask some more questions.

    So what is this god that you believe in? Zeus? Woden? Set? Thor? Baal? Ormazd? Amaterasu? Shiva? What is it the god of? What tickles the fancy of this god of yours? Has this god of your done anything of note? Is there any reason at all to for us to sit up a listen to anything about this god? What do get out of touting this god of yours (does it pay your)? Do you have a contract with it? Does this god do whatever you say? What can your god do?

    So the world is perfect? Is everthing perfect? Are all the people in the world perfect? Is everything in the world perfect? Is everything that happens in the world perfect? Is your god responsible for everything that happens in the world? Are people responsible for anything? Can people do any wrong?
    Scripture says that God sent us out of the garden to reproduce and to learn of good and evil.
    We are doing both of these quite nicely.

    My God, like the original, has not taken a name. He/It is the Word. The word is a philosophy. All religions have a philosophy that they are selling.

    Think of God more as a cosmic conciousness and you will be close to the mark.
    He /It along with all of the dead souls to date form this mind. I believe it began with the first dead soul. The power of this God is mental only. No miracles unless communication with it you wish to call a miracle. I do not. I call it telepathy. In the spirit, if you want a biblical term. Much opf the Bible was rendered by those who were said to be in the spirit when revelation hit. I am no different.

    Unfortunately or fortunately, my main message from God was a chastizement to think more demographically.

    As to perfection, do you see a God being able to lose what He started with. Not likely.
    Why would you think that the woes around us are to be managed by a hand off God. He started a perfect system and has no need to tweek it. It runs perfectly.

    Only those of little or no faith in God would think that He must return to fix a mess that by deffinition cannot be broken.

    Thanks to my experience, I think the closest I can come to naming what I believe would be to call m yself a Gnostic. They believed that God was to be found by each and every individual. All members could preach and speak of God. Not just the elite priests.

    It is no wonder then that man is in the immage of God and visa versa. He is made of us.

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    As to perfection, do you see a God being able to lose what He started with. Not likely.
    I see a God who is not likely to be content to accomplish trivial things where there is no risk, sacrifice or self limitation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    He started a perfect system and has no need to tweek it. It runs perfectly.

    Only those of little or no faith in God would think that He must return to fix a mess that by deffinition cannot be broken.
    I quite agree in the sense there is nothing wrong with what God created, although I do not believe that living things can be created by design and so in the case of living things I don't think the word perfect applies. In any case, this is why I believe that we have an eternal spirit rather than in this idea of God creating a new heaven and earth using old as raw materials (including the post-mortem physical resurrection of everyone who has died). The so called "natural evils" are indeed part of God's design and death is simply a second birth from a second womb (the physical world) in which we must acomplish the proper development in order to survive in the greater world of the spirit.

    However, clearly our beliefs diverge because I believe that God has embraced the challenge and risks involved in creating living things with free will with the end goal of creating those with the ultimate realization of free will that is embodied in the concept creating His own children. That, as every parent quickly learns, is a task which is unavoidably full of mess management.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Scripture says that God sent us out of the garden to reproduce and to learn of good and evil.
    So what are you calling scripture?


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    We are doing both of these quite nicely.
    Evolutionary optimism? So your solution to the problem of evil is that evil is all a part of the natural learning process?


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    My God, like the original, has not taken a name. He/It is the Word. The word is a philosophy.
    So you have your own God different from some original God?


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    All religions have a philosophy that they are selling.
    ...
    Much opf the Bible was rendered by those who were said to be in the spirit when revelation hit. I am no different. Unfortunately or fortunately, my main message from God was a chastizement to think more demographically.
    Sounds to me like you are not only a salesman but an inventor as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Think of God more as a cosmic conciousness and you will be close to the mark.
    He /It along with all of the dead souls to date form this mind. I believe it began with the first dead soul. The power of this God is mental only. No miracles unless communication with it you wish to call a miracle. I do not. I call it telepathy. In the spirit, if you want a biblical term.

    It is no wonder then that man is in the immage of God and visa versa. He is made of us.
    So Man created God by dying rather than God created man and the world? This sounds some variation on the "ancestor worship" of the Far East (Japan, Korea, China and Vietnam).


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Why would you think that the woes around us are to be managed by a hand off God.
    I have no idea what you are talking about in this question.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Thanks to my experience, I think the closest I can come to naming what I believe would be to call myself a Gnostic.
    Would that be Syrian-Egyptian school based on Platonism or the Person school based on Zoastrianism (including the Mandaeans and Manichaeins)? The Former believe in an evil creator of this world called the Demiurge and the latter believe in equal powers of light and darkness battling one another. Or are you talking about some modern thinkings claiming some influence by Gnosticism such as William Blake, Schopenhauer, Pike, Madam Blavatsky, Carl Jung, or Aleister Crowley, or Hermann Hesse? I cannot say that I am very familiar with the belief of these people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    They believed that God was to be found by each and every individual. All members could preach and speak of God. Not just the elite priests.
    Well the Quakers certainly believed that there was a spark of the divine in every human being. I don't think the ancient Gnostics were usually so generous. But more importantly the Quaker belief was in the context of the Christian belief system while the Gnostics typically thought of the material world as evil and as a prison for this spark of the divine in people. Furthermore the quite the opposite of your god created by the accumulation of ancestors concept, the (Platonistic) Gnostic concept was that it was a fragmentation of divine energy (stolen by the Demiurge) that is responsible for us having a portions of the divine inside of us.
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    mitchellmckain

    You wrote
    “we must accomplish the proper development in order to survive in the greater world of the spirit.”

    If one follows his/her God given nature and soul, one cannot but accomplish proper development- whatever that means-.

    There can only be one destination for the mind after death. Heaven. We all get there because God is a possessive kind of guy and does not lose any souls. After all they are perfect.

    If an individual needs more adjustments during death, it is a quick process. Just a few seconds with God moves the mind quickly.



    You wrote
    “So what are you calling scripture?”

    In this case, the only place where we are fallen from the garden. The Bible.

    In the case of Eve, most see it as a fall but I see it as a wonderful leap into the future God wants for us. Learning of good and evil and becoming as Gods.

    Eve gave us moral sense. Would you give it up?

    You seem to believe that God does miracles here. No such thing. God is not a micro manager and does not screw with our free will.

    Other scriptures like the flood or other instances of violence against man are mis-interpreted. God does not kill, murder humans.

    God believes in a fair fight. Him against anyone is certainly not a fair fight. Right?

    You wrote
    “Evolutionary optimism? So your solution to the problem of evil is that evil is all a part of the natural learning process?”

    If not then what is it?
    It has been with us forever.
    Without it we lose moral sense.

    You wrote
    “So you have your own God different from some original God?”

    He is the original with a better reputation than the loser portrayed in scripture.

    You wrote
    “ So Man created God by dying rather than God created man and the world? This sounds some variation on the "ancestor worship" of the Far East (Japan, Korea, China and Vietnam). “

    If God looks more like a cosmic consciousness and God is in our image, then what other type of entity would you have join us in heaven.

    The God of mice is a mouse.
    The God of ants is an ant.
    The God of men must be a man.

    Not an entity from galaxy 417.

    Good and evil live in harmony. One at one end of the graph , one at the other.
    The sun does not fight the moon.

    Regards
    DL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    In the case of Eve, most see it as a fall but I see it as a wonderful leap into the future God wants for us. Learning of good and evil and becoming as Gods.

    Eve gave us moral sense. Would you give it up?
    I don't see that Eve gave us any such thing because I don't believe in any magic fruit that imparts moral knowledge to people. I do believe in an historical Adam and Eve who were the first children of God and I do believe that this story is about what went wrong with the human race in the sense that this explains why we do not seem very much like children of God but do evil things all the time.

    I believe that what the fruit represents is not actual moral knowlege which can only be gained through a learning process but represents something that puts one in a position of authority to tell others the difference between right and wrong. That is something that can be gained by easy external circumstances and it is gaining such authority without any really moral knowledge or understanding that is a source of much of the problems in human history. I certainly do not see any gain of moral knowledge by Adam and Even in the story.

    Then there is the other tree, the "Tree of Life", which was not forbidden and yet as obviously desirable as such a tree should be, they did not eat of it. Why? Because that tree represents exactly the learning process which Adam and Eve skipped over when eating of the other tree. Learning the difference between right and wrong given by the word of God is indeed the tree of life also known as the "living waters" and the fountain of eternal life. God was there in the garden as a parent to teach them what they needed to know in order to be children of God but they turned instead to the empty promise of being the authority (a position like God) to tell others what they should do. They chose to speak for God (the tree of knowledge) rather than to listen to God (the tree of life).

    It not that human history has been a waste and I certainly would not want to return to the garden of Eden, but certainly do want what Adam and Eve threw away and that is a personal relationship with God for that is the tree of life and the source of eternal life, and I do believe I have found such a relationship in Jesus.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    You seem to believe that God does miracles here. No such thing.
    I cannot imagine what gave you such ideas. But yes I do believe in "miracles". This universe is a miracle. Life is a miracle. Yes it happens all acording to the laws of physics, but God created these laws did He not? Therefore what possible difference can there be between the "natural" and the "supernatural"? God did it all and so is it not all the same?


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    God is not a micro manager and does not screw with our free will.
    God's relationship to what He has created is constently to push things in the direction of GREATER free will ALWAYS because free will is the ESSENCE of life. It is quantitative and more free will means more life and less free will means less life. But free will consists of being able to make choices and not all choices are equal. We can "choose" to be like a rock even though a rock has no free will. In other words we can choose habits of thought and action that decrease our life and free will. God's role in the development of life is to push it out of evolutionary dead ends and habits of apathy and complacency to stimulate the development of greater life and free will. God's manipulations does not "screw with our free will" because He does not operate within us but from the outside as an architect of the forces in the environment which stimulate our growth and development. Every parent does the same thing as they SHOULD and MUST. This does not touch our free will because our free will NEVER consists of any control of the environment but only has to do with our own response to the environment.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Other scriptures like the flood or other instances of violence against man are mis-interpreted. God does not kill, murder humans.
    LOL The concept of God a watchmaker is wrong because watches and machines are not alive. Living things cannot be designed. They can only be created in a interactive relationship by such as farmers, shepherds and teachers. But it is foolish to think that these can do there job by being MR NICE GUY all the time. The Farmer will train his plants by pruning and the shepherd will keep his sheep healthy by culling the herd and the teacher will give bad grades to those who do not do the work. God will do what our best interest requires. Children may stomp their feet and hold their breath and act like they are dying in order to get what they want but good parent will give them what they need even if it is a spanking. But God's concern is on a bit vaster scale (the whole human race) and concerned with a much longer view (our eternal life rather than our physical life) and so judging His actions by such petty concerns is foolish.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    God believes in a fair fight. Him against anyone is certainly not a fair fight. Right?
    Children often complain that their parents are not being fair. It is of course irrelevant.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    You wrote
    “So your solution to the problem of evil is that evil is all a part of the natural learning process?”

    If not then what is it?
    It has been with us forever.
    Without it we lose moral sense.
    As far as "natural evil" is concerned I quite agree with you. But nothing justifies moral evil. But God is not responsible for moral evil, but only responsible for the possibility of moral evil and that is not the same thing. The possibility of moral evil is an inherent feature of life. Creating life for the purpose of making evil possible would be wrong, which shows that creating life for the wrong reasons can be a great evil. However I believe that there is a right reason and that is the creation of life for the purpose of love.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    You wrote
    “So you have your own God different from some original God?”

    He is the original with a better reputation than the loser portrayed in scripture.
    Well I think you are absolutely right in the fact that you put the moral character of God before anything else, for I do believe that goodness MUST be the defining characteristic of God. A god which is evil in any way should be resisted at any cost. Therefore if you cannot see this God in the stories of the Old Testament then I cannot blame you for rejecting them. You should indeed worship the one true God who is absolutely and perfectly good in every way.

    Furthermore I think we must absolutely reject any sort of divine relativism that makes everything that somebody says God does or did, good by definition. Goodness is what it is quite independent of God. We must not believe that things are good only because God teaches us them but the opposite, that God teaches us them because they are good.

    Also we must put our trust in what discernment we have between good and evil according to the conscience that God has given us for to do otherwise is to abandon any commitment to doing good at all. Our trust in God must be that if our understanding of good and evil is wrong that He will help us to learn better and NOT that if we do what someone tells us is God's will against our own conscience then that is ok.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    You wrote
    “So what are you calling scripture?”

    In this case, the only place where we are fallen from the garden. The Bible.
    So when you read the bible do you just take out the pieces you like and say that these prove your point of view.

    I read the Bible as one source of information among many and finding the meaning in it that I can. So I definitely do not think it is a science textbook or a "Creation for Dummies" book telling us how God created the universe or how to fix a computer. I do not take the Genesis Chapter 2 so literally that I think God is some kind of comic book necromancer creating golems of dust and flesh. I think the theory of evolution and abiogenesis are accurate objective descriptions of how God created living things. And yet my reading of the Bible has convinced me that this is the word of God written by God using human authors and history as His writing instruments. But what distinguishes my approach from that of many others is that I never say that the Bible proves my point of view. I only share what I see in the Bible and others can take it or leave it as they see fit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    If one follows his/her God given nature and soul, one cannot but accomplish proper development- whatever that means-.

    There can only be one destination for the mind after death. Heaven. We all get there because God is a possessive kind of guy and does not lose any souls. After all they are perfect.

    If an individual needs more adjustments during death, it is a quick process. Just a few seconds with God moves the mind quickly.
    Yes that all sound rather consistent with your vision of God as some giant spiritual amoeba absorbing the spirits of people after death. Frankly I would rather be worm food than have anything to do with anything so evil. But no doubt your "God" is kind of like the Borg in Star Trek saying "resistance is futile" and adjusting those it gets its hands on so they are no longer capable of resistance. Why do I say it is evil? Assimilation is not the pattern of the increase of life (which is diversity) but the pattern of consumption and death. Maybe your god is like this demon known in the Bible as "legion" and it goes around absorbing its convert's souls in order to add to its unholy power.

    THAT is MY conscience and discernment between good and evil by which I cannot see the one true God of goodness in your description.
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    Look more logically and you will find.

    What we have versus what you want. The reality that surrounds us must be the way God wants it or it would be different. Give God that power or cast Him aside for a more realistic one.

    Do you see God saying -----well I lost perfection in my systems for a while thanks to those ever so powerful humans. This from a flood controller????

    Can you see Mrs. God asking God to take out the trash, including earth and hell, that is ruining her perfect view from her window?

    Many see God as an al knowing omni this and omni that. Who knows God that well?
    If we are in His image then we too must be omni all things.

    I too read Genesis as our archetypal first humans. No fruit just knowledge.

    The tree of life. Oh yes.
    Do you know of any other biological animal that can live forever. I do not. Death to humans is normal.
    If you think that tree was real then the talking snake must be just as real to you.
    That tree is not a learning process. The tree of knowledge obviously is.
    We are presently in the garden. The earth is perfect.

    You wrote
    “It not that human history has been a waste and I certainly would not want to return to the garden of Eden, but certainly do want what Adam and Eve threw away and that is a personal relationship with God for that is the tree of life and the source of eternal life, and I do believe I have found such a relationship in Jesus. “

    And here I thought you were still searching.
    Jesus was a great Rabbi. As to the son of God and divine, not so.
    God is said to have been unhappy about angels fornicating with women and some would believe that even after Him showing us that bestiality is what He frowns on, He turn around and does the same with Marie. How stupid to think that God would play sexually with humans. You might say that He wanted us to kill Jesus, after all He killed of the angels progeny.
    Just so you know this is myth, not reality.

    I have seen many natural phenomena. I have yet to see any unnatural or supernatural one’s.

    God does not do miracles. If you believe He does, other than the universe, tell me about one.


    You wrote
    “He does not operate within us but from the outside as an architect of the forces in the environment which stimulate our growth and development. Every parent does the same thing as they SHOULD and MUST. This does not touch our free will because our free will NEVER consists of any control of the environment but only has to do with our own response to the environment.”

    Here again you see God as a micro manager.
    If what you say is true then He is sure slow and incompetent at that process.
    Further, parents do not usually drown their children. God did. If you believe in the flood that is.
    Sounds fair to me to have a super powerful God dump on weak humans.

    You wrote
    “judging His actions by such petty concerns is foolish.”

    Tell that to the millions of innocent victims, including babies and children.

    Do you not think it strange that God the farmer sowed millions of perfect souls but could only create 8 good ones?
    True, they were supposed to have been turned to evil but I attribute that to God letting His angels fornicate with women. God could not predict the outcome or ifd you think He could then He just did not care if He was viewed as a genocidal maniac.

    Much cleaner to just make another earth and transfer the 8. Then again they screwed up as well did they not. Strike three for God. Even He recognized the absurdity of such and vowed to hurt man no more. To me this or the death of Jesus was to close the doors of hell but Christians want hell open for business.
    They like revenge.

    You wrote
    “Children often complain that their parents are not being fair. It is of course irrelevant.”

    Unless you drown then or stone them as scripture tells us to do with unruly children.

    All Bibles have merit. All works of philosophy the same. They both try to show a good way of living.

    Regards
    DL
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    Look more logically and you will find.

    What we have versus what you want. The reality that surrounds us must be the way God wants it or it would be different. Give God that power or cast Him aside for a more realistic one.

    Do you see God saying -----well I lost perfection in my systems for a while thanks to those ever so powerful humans. This from a flood controller????

    Can you see Mrs. God asking God to take out the trash, including earth and hell, that is ruining her perfect view from her window?

    Many see God as an al knowing omni this and omni that. Who knows God that well?
    If we are in His image then we too must be omni all things.

    I too read Genesis as our archetypal first humans. No fruit just knowledge.

    The tree of life. Oh yes.
    Do you know of any other biological animal that can live forever. I do not. Death to humans is normal.
    If you think that tree was real then the talking snake must be just as real to you.
    That tree is not a learning process. The tree of knowledge obviously is.
    We are presently in the garden. The earth is perfect.

    You wrote
    “It not that human history has been a waste and I certainly would not want to return to the garden of Eden, but certainly do want what Adam and Eve threw away and that is a personal relationship with God for that is the tree of life and the source of eternal life, and I do believe I have found such a relationship in Jesus. “

    And here I thought you were still searching.
    Jesus was a great Rabbi. As to the son of God and divine, not so.
    God is said to have been unhappy about angels fornicating with women and some would believe that even after Him showing us that bestiality is what He frowns on, He turn around and does the same with Marie. How stupid to think that God would play sexually with humans. You might say that He wanted us to kill Jesus, after all He killed of the angels progeny.
    Just so you know this is myth, not reality.

    I have seen many natural phenomena. I have yet to see any unnatural or supernatural one’s.

    God does not do miracles. If you believe He does, other than the universe, tell me about one.


    You wrote
    “He does not operate within us but from the outside as an architect of the forces in the environment which stimulate our growth and development. Every parent does the same thing as they SHOULD and MUST. This does not touch our free will because our free will NEVER consists of any control of the environment but only has to do with our own response to the environment.”

    Here again you see God as a micro manager.
    If what you say is true then He is sure slow and incompetent at that process.
    Further, parents do not usually drown their children. God did. If you believe in the flood that is.
    Sounds fair to me to have a super powerful God dump on weak humans.

    You wrote
    “judging His actions by such petty concerns is foolish.”

    Tell that to the millions of innocent victims, including babies and children.

    Do you not think it strange that God the farmer sowed millions of perfect souls but could only create 8 good ones?
    True, they were supposed to have been turned to evil but I attribute that to God letting His angels fornicate with women. God could not predict the outcome or ifd you think He could then He just did not care if He was viewed as a genocidal maniac.

    Much cleaner to just make another earth and transfer the 8. Then again they screwed up as well did they not. Strike three for God. Even He recognized the absurdity of such and vowed to hurt man no more. To me this or the death of Jesus was to close the doors of hell but Christians want hell open for business.
    They like revenge.

    You wrote
    “Children often complain that their parents are not being fair. It is of course irrelevant.”

    Unless you drown then or stone them as scripture tells us to do with unruly children.

    All Bibles have merit. All works of philosophy the same. They both try to show a good way of living.

    Regards
    DL
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  26. #25  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Look more logically and you will find.
    That is funny. I see nothing logical in your responses. Logical does not equate to seeing things your way which is more simple-minded that anything that can be called clear.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    What we have versus what you want. The reality that surrounds us must be the way God wants it or it would be different.
    God's will is not to live in a dream world where His will rules everything. That may be the world that you would want to live in given a choice but that is a measure of your childishness.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Give God that power or cast Him aside for a more realistic one.
    No.

    Maybe your amoeba god depends upon you and the souls it sucks up for power but my god does not require that I give it power. My God is all powerful and there is nothing He cannot do INCLUDING risk, sacrifice, self-limitation and giving privacy to others. Can your God do these things? The most important power that any being could have is power over himself.

    I will certainly not trade my god for yours especially on an issue of power. I have no use for a God of power - a God that chooses power and is obsessed with power sounds more like the devil to me. My God is certainly nothing like that at all. My God chooses love. My God counts all His infinite power and knowledge as nothing so that He laid it all down and became a helpless infant to live as one of us.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Do you see God saying -----well I lost perfection in my systems for a while thanks to those ever so powerful humans. This from a flood controller????

    Can you see Mrs. God asking God to take out the trash, including earth and hell, that is ruining her perfect view from her window?
    The only trash to take out is this nonsense you are babbling.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    Many see God as an al knowing omni this and omni that. Who knows God that well?
    If we are in His image then we too must be omni all things.
    We are NOT God, we are in the IMAGE of God. Every child is created in the image of its parent. What does this mean? Does it mean that the child can do everything the parent does? NO. It means that the child has the potential to be everything that the parent is. This is our relationship with God but it is an eternal relationship. God is infinite actuality but we as finite beings are created in His image because we have infinite potentiality. And thus our relationship with God can be an eternal relationship where we can receive all that God has to give for an eternity.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am
    The tree of life. Oh yes.
    Do you know of any other biological animal that can live forever. I do not. Death to humans is normal.
    If you think that tree was real then the talking snake must be just as real to you.
    That tree is not a learning process. The tree of knowledge obviously is.
    We are presently in the garden. The earth is perfect.
    Apparently you are functionally illiterate, have short term memory loss, or lack the intellegence to comprehend the simplest things I say. I recently said "death is simply a second birth from a second womb". Of course it would be pointless to stay in the womb for ever and more like death than life. Everything I said in my last post was a symbolic interpretation of the story ridiculing the idea of a magical tree or fruit that could give knowledge or life.

    I must despair of succeeding to communicate with anyone with such debilitating deficiencies. So I give up this dicussion as useless.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
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