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Thread: An MSN debate concerning the existance of god.

  1. #1 An MSN debate concerning the existance of god. 
    Forum Freshman matt0401's Avatar
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    Without even bothering to explain how the subject got to this, this is an excerpt from an MSN conversation I just had with an online friend. I'd be curious to hear any opinions/back up for either side from anybody willing to read it. Thanks.


    Matt says:
    let's not get into that
    Michael says:
    but God will never leave you or forsake you
    Michael says:
    he always loves you
    Matt says:
    <<real name stated... censored>>
    Michael says:
    no matter what you fo
    Michael says:
    do
    Michael says:
    *
    Michael says:
    seriously it's just that it really seems like He's really trying to speak to you
    Matt says:
    <<real name stated... censored>> i don't beleive in higher beings.
    Michael says:
    I mean look at the philosophy behing Christianity
    Michael says:
    do you have a problem with it?
    Matt says:
    honestly you're making me feel uncomfortable here, embarassed
    Michael says:
    why?
    Matt says:
    to answer truthfully would offend you
    Matt says:
    I don't think we should even get into religion.
    Michael says:
    sorry, I am not trying to be preachy I really feel it would add so much to your life..give you more purpose and fullfillment
    Michael says:
    I don't want to bombard you though that was not the intent
    Matt says:
    Well then I simply respectfully disagree.
    Matt says:
    And I view other things in life as being more important than spirituality.
    Michael says:
    what is the meaning of life to you?
    Matt says:
    To live.
    Matt says:
    However you exercise that right you have that meaning of life is up to you.
    Michael says:
    and what is it "to live:
    Matt says:
    Everybody has different goals.
    Matt says:
    Some yearn to improve the lives of others.
    Matt says:
    That'd be the scientists curing diseases, the teachers educating the new generations.
    Matt says:
    Other's just want to have fun.
    Matt says:
    That'd be the partiers and daredevils.
    Michael says:
    so don't think there are any 'shoulds' in life
    Matt says:
    It's all up the them.
    Matt says:
    There are no shoulds in my opinion.
    Michael says:
    or 'shouldn'ts'
    Michael says:
    ?
    Matt says:
    Life is just life. You do whatever you want, as long as it doesn't remove another person's right to live.
    Michael says:
    that's the ONLY rule
    Michael says:
    don't murder
    Michael says:
    and your golden
    Matt says:
    Right I also don't think there are any shouldn'ts, as long as it doesn't inflict on another person's right to live.
    Matt says:
    Well think about it.
    Matt says:
    If living is what's important than stealing that from someone is wrong.
    Matt says:
    Period.
    Michael says:
    steal cheat lie, but just don't murder
    Matt says:
    sure
    Matt says:
    lol
    Matt says:
    honestly I do think that way
    Michael says:
    I really don't get that "If living is what's important than stealing that from someone is wrong.
    "
    Matt says:
    It's your own fault though if you don't like the repurcutions of lying cheating and stealing.
    Matt says:
    get what I mean
    Matt says:
    it wouldn't be a very enjoyable life
    Michael says:
    are you a nihilist?
    Matt says:
    no
    Matt says:
    I don't follow any religions
    Michael says:
    really/
    Matt says:
    Or cults.
    Michael says:
    you sure about that
    Michael says:
    do you know what a nihilist is?
    Matt says:
    That is my personal belief.
    Matt says:
    If it shares a resemblance to "nihilism" that's just a coincidense
    Matt says:
    I don't like "ism"s personally.
    Matt says:
    Labels are unneccesary.
    Matt says:
    no i don't enlighten me
    Michael says:

    nihilism |ˈnīəˌlizəm; ˈnē-|
    noun
    the rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless.
    Matt says:
    lol
    Matt says:
    Well I'm not a Nihilist then.
    Matt says:
    because I don't view life as being meaningless
    Matt says:
    unless you argue that by my saying that you make your own meaning it would be "meaningless"
    Matt says:
    In that case I would be a Nihilist.
    Michael says:
    so the meaning to life is that you make your own meaning..sounds kinda like there isn't A meaning then therefore life is meaningless..to you
    Matt says:
    actually
    Matt says:
    after reading the wikipedia article I'd agree with the description
    Matt says:
    I do consider myself a Nihilist.
    Michael says:
    yeah
    Matt says:
    that actually perfectly describes my view on the meaning of life
    Matt says:
    a blank slate
    Michael says:
    yep thought so
    Michael says:
    doesn't that make life feel a little..less full to you?
    Matt says:
    lol
    Matt says:
    What is 'full'?
    Michael says:
    and id you make your own meaning what is your meaning of life?/
    Matt says:
    I can pull the tough question asking card too you know.
    Matt says:
    My meaning of life... I don't know.
    Matt says:
    I'm only 18, that's my exuse.
    Matt says:
    I've still got the rest of an ever-expanding lifetime to find out my personal meaning of life.
    Matt says:
    if your definition of full is naive satisfaction without wanting to seek the ultimate truth, then I don't want to be full.
    Michael says:
    haha yes
    Matt says:
    You could say "god did it" or you could get off your ass and figure it out
    Michael says:
    thats exactly what my definition of a "FULL LIFE IS pffffff
    Matt says:
    Mitosis... god did it.... or not.
    Matt says:
    Cancer... god did it? nope.
    Matt says:
    Curing cancer... god will do it? probably not.
    Michael says:
    yes he did actually
    Michael says:
    well God did
    Matt says:
    explain
    Michael says:
    he created the earth and everything in it..so God indirectly created cancer
    Michael says:
    and what exactly do you get off your ass and "figure out"??
    Matt says:
    origins of things
    Michael says:
    Christians still study science
    Matt says:
    Saying "god did it" is the lazy way out.
    Matt says:
    Yes and then that Christian will deicde that God is responsible for whafever scientific findings he or she finds.
    Michael says:
    and the origins of things, in fact Christians appreciate it God's creation A LOT and many Christians are environmentalist or at least care about God's creation
    Matt says:
    That's good, but their logic is still flawed.
    Michael says:
    no the Christian is amazed at the remarkable detail and ingenuity of the design of whatever he or she is studying and realizes there must be intelligent design
    Matt says:
    oh please
    Matt says:
    Intelligent design is a scam.
    Michael says:
    and there's NO WAY it could be a coincidence cause THAT is flowed logic
    Matt says:
    An attempt to mask religious indoctrination of the young and impressionable in science.
    Michael says:
    ok..
    Matt says:
    it is. It's amazing that humans area s advanced as we are.
    Matt says:
    But it can happen by chance.
    Matt says:
    A lot of scientific stuff is "amazing" but we know it's all scientific.
    Matt says:
    Nothing supernatural about it.
    Michael says:
    or another explanation just as viable as ohhh uhh yeah sweetie it was ummm and accident
    Michael says:
    you are born from an accident you will die in the ground with your body
    Michael says:
    goodnight
    Matt says:
    That's the thing. Science has come to the conclusion that it was a randome vent that created life based on fact. and accident isn't the same as random event.
    Michael says:
    lol you say Science like it's some kind of...belief
    Matt says:
    there is no accident
    Matt says:
    no purpose
    Matt says:
    i say Science because I'm grouping together all of the scentific studies done
    Michael says:
    by people
    Matt says:
    yes
    Matt says:
    called scientists
    Michael says:
    they're just people..victims of human errors too
    Michael says:
    Scientists are no higher than we are
    Matt says:
    what?
    Matt says:
    What are you referring to "victims of human error"
    Matt says:
    How was the creation of human life a human error?
    Matt says:
    That itself is flawed logic.
    Michael says:
    uhh I meant humans make errors
    Matt says:
    an example of a logic loop
    Matt says:
    like the bible
    Matt says:
    God wrote the Bible. He exists because he's mentioned the Bible!!
    Matt says:
    Uh oh.
    Matt says:
    mentioned in the bible**
    Michael says:
    uh oh
    Michael says:
    that made no sense
    Matt says:
    I'm pointing out the lack of logic.
    Michael says:
    in your own mind?
    Michael says:
    why would you do that?
    Michael says:
    it doesn't help your case
    Matt says:
    How can you prove the existance of something by reading about it in a book it itself created?
    Matt says:
    it's a loop
    Michael says:
    no..
    Michael says:
    I don't belive in an author's existance because he put himself in his book..
    Michael says:
    I believe in him because we're discussing his book over coffee..
    Michael says:
    get it?
    Michael says:
    logic check
    Matt says:
    Yes, you would believe in him because his existance is already proven.
    Matt says:
    That's the problem with the bible.
    Matt says:
    get it?
    Michael says:
    yeah
    Matt says:
    logic check
    Michael says:
    no
    Michael says:
    I dont
    Michael says:
    what?
    Matt says:
    because there is no OTHER proof of god
    Michael says:
    that's were your wron
    Michael says:
    g
    Matt says:
    the ONLY thing you can use to prove his existance is the book he himself wrote
    Michael says:
    no
    Michael says:
    I don't use that to prove his existance though
    Matt says:
    then what proof do you use
    Michael says:
    I use this computer
    Matt says:
    tell me
    Michael says:
    I use my brain
    Michael says:
    I use every detail science
    Matt says:
    but without knowing that he is responsible for the computer, the human brain... how would you use it as proof of his existance?
    Matt says:
    listen to this for a sec
    Matt says:
    hypothetical situation here
    Matt says:
    I beleive in aiobfqeioaioefgb. he is the god of all gods.
    Matt says:
    God (christian god...) exists. Therefore SOMETHING must have created him!
    Matt says:
    It must have been good ol' aiobfqeioaioefgb! Who else?
    Matt says:
    God is amazing. That guy created Earth.
    Matt says:
    He must be the work of aiobfqeioaioefgb.
    Matt says:
    the mere existance of a "god" is a logic loop
    Matt says:
    think about it
    Michael says:
    uhhh yeah explain to me how tha proved anything you are saying..
    Matt says:
    omg
    Matt says:
    I give up.
    Matt says:
    lol
    Michael says:
    it felt like you just wanted chance to say aiobfqeioaioefgb and sound intellignet
    Matt says:
    this isn't even worth it anymore
    Matt says:
    NO
    Matt says:
    i was making a random name
    Matt says:
    I was gonna use Globbleflort.
    Michael says:
    lol I spely intelligent wrong
    Matt says:
    but I decided not to
    Matt says:
    it doesn't matter
    Matt says:
    I was hoping you would see the flawed logic in a "god" situation
    Michael says:
    I spelt spely wrong
    Michael says:
    well that's why at certain point faith is involved
    Matt says:
    aha
    Matt says:
    but
    Matt says:
    Faith isn't scientific.
    Matt says:
    It doesn't rely on proof.
    Matt says:
    Therefore it can't be used to prove anything.
    Matt says:
    No facts.
    Michael says:
    neither does your crush on Ben
    Michael says:
    but it gives you something
    Michael says:
    something to hope for
    Matt says:
    That's the human brain for you.
    Michael says:
    right?
    Matt says:
    It's very advanced and we're still mapping it out.
    Matt says:
    Understanding it.
    Michael says:
    w
    Michael says:
    t
    Michael says:
    f
    Michael says:
    are you talkinga bout
    Matt says:
    Love is a sensation produced by the brain.
    Michael says:
    yeah..
    Matt says:
    you didn't know that?
    Michael says:
    I did..
    Michael says:
    it's kinda obvious
    Michael says:
    lol
    Matt says:
    We're still understanding what exactly "love is" and what specifically in the brainc auses it.
    Matt says:
    We aren't finished.
    Michael says:
    ok..cool
    Matt says:
    No wonder I don't fully ubnderstand my crush on ben.
    Michael says:
    gotta love them scientists
    Michael says:
    what would we do without them
    Michael says:
    you know
    Matt says:
    be in the dark ages
    Michael says:
    you can't prove that they exist
    Matt says:
    I don't like the way you think therefore you have to die.
    Michael says:
    the scientist
    Matt says:
    gotta love the good ol days
    Michael says:
    your whole life could be a dream
    Matt says:
    lol
    Matt says:
    could be
    Michael says:
    but you have faith right?
    Matt says:
    but if all we ever do is live in a dream we might as well find out as much about that dream as possible
    Matt says:
    I don't.
    Matt says:
    I don't have faith in anything.
    Matt says:
    Not even humanity because of people like you.
    Michael says:
    what?
    Matt says:
    Who refuse to admit to fact.
    Michael says:
    was that as mean as it sounded?
    Matt says:
    It was.
    Matt says:
    And I apologise.
    Michael says:
    you don't belive in humanity because of me?
    Matt says:
    But sometimes you have to say things like that.
    Matt says:
    I don't/
    Matt says:
    And it's sad.
    Matt says:
    Because I like you a lot.
    Matt says:
    You're a smart guy.
    Matt says:
    And it's too bad you aren't smarter, and that you're limited by your religion.
    Michael says:
    but I'm lost
    Michael says:
    limited from what?
    Michael says:
    limited from living a life of complete sin?
    Matt says:
    what is sin
    Michael says:
    or 'living it up' as some would call it
    Matt says:
    how do you know what is right and wrong
    Michael says:
    because if it doesn't please God it is wrong
    Matt says:
    wow that sounded cult-like
    Michael says:
    wow..I'm brainwashed
    Matt says:
    Who says you have to "please" god even if he exists.
    Michael says:
    I can't think for myself
    Matt says:
    You're your own person.
    Michael says:
    HELP MEEE
    Michael says:
    no one
    Michael says:
    and I totally have the right to not please him
    Michael says:
    and I don't often
    Michael says:
    but God forgives you and if you ask him he will help you overcome your sin
    Matt says:
    Um.
    Matt says:
    See here's the problem. I can't.
    Matt says:
    He is omnipresent.
    Michael says:
    whether it be..gambling..drinking and driving..murdering..
    Matt says:
    he is supernatural.
    Matt says:
    He has no physical form
    Matt says:
    I can't ask him, he can't hear me.
    Matt says:
    BUT HE EXCISTS
    Matt says:
    ALAS
    Michael says:
    nono sorry I meant you as in the like people you you know?
    Matt says:
    Flawed logic.
    Michael says:
    logic according to Science
    Matt says:
    Yes, the young and impressionable people.
    Michael says:
    and Science is your religion
    Michael says:
    everyone has some belief
    Matt says:
    Science is the opposite of religion.
    Michael says:
    yours rests in science
    Matt says:
    Science is getting off your ass and figuring shit out, religion is casting it aside, waiting for tomorrow or perhaps the enxt passby to do anything about it.
    Michael says:
    well religion to me means rules
    Matt says:
    passerby**
    Michael says:
    hahha
    Michael says:
    well I don't even want to or strive to be 'religious' by my definition of the word
    Michael says:
    I strive to get closer to God, because that is right and leads me closer true happiness
    Michael says:
    also, I can always turn to God, even when there are no people with me
    Matt says:
    Well here's the thing. You can do that but without proof of god do you even feel comfortable living like that? If you think his best-selling fiction novel is proof enough, you're naive.
    Michael says:
    and He DOES comfort me
    Michael says:
    and He will always love me
    Michael says:
    I don't need scientific proof of God
    Michael says:
    I have alllllll kinda of other prood that's plenty for me..thanks though
    Matt says:
    what proof though
    Michael says:
    proof*
    Matt says:
    and remember faith is not proof
    Michael says:
    life
    Matt says:
    life is life
    Matt says:
    we don't know if it's god yet
    Matt says:
    so don't jump to coclusions
    Michael says:
    life for me is proof of God, you it's all about perspective
    Michael says:
    to me, I call him God
    Michael says:
    someone people call him other things
    Matt says:
    Life is proof of god?
    Michael says:
    for me
    Michael says:
    yes
    Michael says:
    love in life
    Matt says:
    Life as in living life is what I meant.
    Matt says:
    but okay
    Matt says:
    As for me, life is life.
    Matt says:
    We don't have a definitive answer yet.
    Michael says:
    you don't
    Matt says:
    So we'll keep on searching for one.
    Michael says:
    I do
    Matt says:
    listen
    Michael says:
    I'm sound
    Matt says:
    If we ever find solid proof of the existance of a god I will "beleive" in him.
    Michael says:
    secure, and it's not upsetting my life
    Matt says:
    Because it will be interpreting scientific fact.
    Matt says:
    Until then, in humanity's thousands of years of existance we haven't.
    Michael says:
    we don't find solid proof unitil we die
    Matt says:
    flawed logic again!
    Matt says:
    There's no life after death!
    Matt says:
    when you die you die
    Matt says:
    How can you have proof of an afterlife if that itself is an oxymoron?
    Matt says:
    Because death is the end of life?
    Michael says:
    omgosh, if you say the word flowed logic once more!
    Matt says:
    If you get to heaven that's all fine but you can't shout back down to Joe and Billy about how awesome it is.
    Michael says:
    I just know that God's love is eternal
    Matt says:
    it's a loop
    Michael says:
    and certainly the physical life ends at death, but the spirtual life carries on
    Matt says:
    There's no proof yet of a spiritual life.


    Matt says:
    so you can cancel that out
    Matt says:
    next?
    Michael says:
    lol, I'm glad my life isn't limited by scientic proof
    Matt says:
    you know what
    Matt says:
    If I think about it what you're doing is fine. You have the right to live however you wish. if you want to live in denial that's fine.
    Matt says:
    it doesn't affect me
    Matt says:
    I just wish people would strive for more.
    Matt says:
    Religious people are like the welfare bums of society, leeching off the hard work of the non-religious who advance civilization.
    Matt says:
    If I grew up to cure cancer and you would attribute the "miracle" to god.
    Matt says:
    Kind of sucks doesn't it.
    Michael says:
    what do you think is more important in life? spending your time shutting down all those idiots who get off their bum and love God by serving others and trying to help the needy or people who sit on their bum cursing those idiots who think there is some kind of God..
    Michael says:
    I just wish people would strive for me
    Matt says:
    If I finished mapping out the human genone you would go "oh ya that god guy is cool eh? he did that" and get right back on your knees worshipping him
    Michael says:
    more**wow bad typo
    Matt says:
    really
    Matt says:
    People who doubt god realize that we are responsible for helping the needy.
    Matt says:
    There are non-religious who help needy too.
    Michael says:
    well I would yeah cause I'm not a Christian who is interested in Science. A Christian who is interested in Science would say wow what an opportunity for me to serve God by saving people's lives with my discoveries
    Michael says:
    ah ah careful carefulll wouldn't want too much meaning your life there..responsibilities..? sounds like a duty to me
    Michael says:
    should I help those dying people?
    Matt says:
    I would.
    Matt says:
    Some wouldn't.
    Matt says:
    It's their choice.
    Michael says:
    no right or wrong?
    Matt says:
    I have a human emotion called compassion so I would.
    Michael says:
    honestly?
    Michael says:
    you must hate are legal system
    Matt says:
    no right or wong
    Matt says:
    honestly
    Matt says:
    I do!
    Matt says:
    it's full of laws based on morals
    Matt says:
    It's wrong to lay with man as thou would with woman.
    Matt says:
    Oops, nevermind we changed that.
    Matt says:
    it doesn't matter anymore
    Matt says:
    how do you know what does?
    Michael says:
    you know this has been a very revealiing conversation.for both of us I think we discovered you are a nihilistic anarchist
    Matt says:
    not an anarchist
    Matt says:
    anarchy leads to disaster
    Matt says:
    but definetely a Nihilist
    Matt says:
    and I have discovered that you are a very Closed-minded Theist
    Michael says:
    not close minded-cause closed mindedness leads to disaster
    Matt says:
    There's probably an adjective out there that describes your cult-like feeling of duty to a supernatural being out there too, but I don't feel like figuring it out atm. 4am does that to ya
    Matt says:
    i'll just settle with 'religious" for that adjective
    Michael says:
    whatever makes you feel bigger
    Matt says:
    closed-minded doesn't neccesarily lead to disaster
    Michael says:
    I mean better
    Matt says:
    but it doesn't lead to progress that's for sure
    Michael says:
    I know
    Michael says:
    I hate close mindedness
    Matt says:
    I'll ignore your intended ironic meaning.
    Matt says:
    I'm not closed minded though.
    Michael says:
    uh yeah haha.. fake laugh
    Matt says:
    I've looked at religion with an open mind.
    Matt says:
    And flat out denied it, realizing that it's pointless.
    Michael says:
    wow, you have to be joking
    Michael says:
    you think you're not close minded to faith?
    Matt says:
    If closed-minding means unwilling to examine it then yes I think I am most definietely NOT.
    Michael says:
    I'm and open minded person of faith
    Michael says:
    but I'm not like completely unstable like, wait "what? there IS NO GOD?? he can't be scientifcally proven so he's not real..WHAT? I have flawed logic? ohhhhh wow I guess I'll ignore my gut feelings and whole life of experiencing God and screw 'im
    Matt says:
    you should after realizing there is no god
    Matt says:
    There's no shame in being wrong.
    Matt says:
    that's human too
    Michael says:
    haha you think I think there is no God?
    Matt says:
    The only thing that matters is the future. The more people that are willing to make that realization in the future the better.
    Matt says:
    I don't.
    Michael says:
    obviously I was joking, God exists
    Matt says:
    I wish you did.
    Michael says:
    why?
    Matt says:
    because that'd the point of this debate.
    Michael says:
    how will that 'better the future'
    Michael says:
    ???
    Matt says:
    I'm arguing that there aren't any gods and you are arguing that there are.
    Michael says:
    no
    Matt says:
    My goal is to convince you.
    Michael says:
    I'm arguing that there is a God
    Matt says:
    I use a generic, genderless, noun for the sake fo the debate topic.
    Matt says:
    Doesn't matter... god/gods same thing.
    Michael says:
    NO
    Michael says:
    wrong
    Matt says:
    we're argueing about the possiblity of a god
    Michael says:
    and intelligent design
    Michael says:
    I belive there is and if there isn't then what?
    Matt says:
    Then there isn't and you believed wrong.
    Matt says:
    Simple as that.
    Matt says:
    but if you ignore facts then you're stupid
    Michael says:
    EXACTLY
    Michael says:
    so who cares
    Matt says:
    no arguing there
    Michael says:
    ohh noo boo boo
    Michael says:
    I'm stupid
    Michael says:
    so the point of life to you is to not be stupid
    Matt says:
    yes, that's one of my personal points of life
    Matt says:
    To be smart.
    Matt says:
    To look at facts.
    Michael says:
    and waste your entire life searching for 'the truth' which quite frankly doesn't look liek you'll find
    Matt says:
    I don't beleive in a "truth" i told you I'm not religious
    Matt says:
    But I am interested in finding the origin of things like Earth, so I'll go as far as I can.
    Michael says:
    as far as you can..
    Michael says:
    meaning..
    Matt says:
    Uncovering as much knowledge as possible.
    Matt says:
    And handing it over to my grandchildren to finish.
    Matt says:
    Scientific progress.
    Michael says:
    that's certainly a feather in your cap
    Michael says:
    I'm not saying it wouldn't be neat
    Michael says:
    but what would you do with all this knowledge
    Matt says:
    Give it to humanity.
    Matt says:
    Allow it to better humanity.
    Michael says:
    tell your grandkids
    Michael says:
    well that's good..except you want to be an accountant
    Matt says:
    lmao
    Matt says:
    exactly
    Matt says:
    not everyone is cut out to be a scientist
    Michael says:
    sorry it's late and I'm not being a good example of Christian, I'm being rude
    Matt says:
    I'll balance their checkbooks while their busy making scientific progress.
    Michael says:
    I apologize for my rudeness
    Matt says:
    you don't have to
    Matt says:
    you pointed out hypocrisy in what I said
    Matt says:
    that wasn't rude
    Michael says:
    what if it's a Chrisitan's checkbook whose not busy making sceintific progress?
    Michael | cOOmmon shut UP says:
    lol
    Matt says:
    Well that's life.
    Matt says:
    It's money for me anyways.
    Michael | cOOmmon shut UP says:
    lol
    Matt says:

    Michael says:
    so to sum up you don't mind living life with no faith or one real meaning..just so long as you 'live' and I need some kind of underlying purpose and a God to be able to turn to and I offically have carpel tunnel syndrome
    Michael says:
    my and has never been in so much pain
    Michael says:
    lol
    Michael says:
    it's actually like my lower wrist..
    Matt says:
    Well we share a lot in common.
    Michael says:
    ohh my goshh
    Matt says:
    Carpal tunnel syndrome.
    Michael says:
    yeah


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  3. #2  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    You should add another option in the poll for "Neither/My own" or similar. But it seems like a pretty standard conversation to me. If you stick around, you'll take part or witness many such over here.

    Oh, and welcome! :wink:


    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  4. #3  
    Forum Freshman matt0401's Avatar
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    Thanks for the welcome.

    I have a cousin about my age who I was good friends with as a child. Of course we still are good friends but we drastically disagree when it comes to religion. I was hardcore atheist he was hardcore theist and we would argue all the time on MSN. This is between a casual online acquaintance and I but the conversation is pretty similar.

    The internet can be a fantastic tool for intellectual debate don't you think?
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  5. #4  
    Time Lord
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    Pong says:
    Wow
    Pong says:
    you know
    Pong says:
    I didn't even vote.
    Pong says:
    know why?
    Pong says:
    because
    Pong says:
    Reading the debate
    Pong says:
    -just imho-
    Pong says:
    taht
    Pong says:
    *that
    Pong says:
    is work.
    Pong says:

    Pong says:

    Pong says:
    Welcome
    Pong says:
    : )
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  6. #5  
    Forum Bachelors Degree
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    It's like talking to two brick walls.
    "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell
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  7. #6  
    Forum Ph.D. verzen's Avatar
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    And if a brick wall started talking to you, it would be a work of god.
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by verzen
    And if a brick wall started talking to you, it would be a work of god.
    Ummmmm ok. You realize 'like talking to a brick wall' is merely a saying right?
    "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell
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  9. #8  
    Forum Freshman matt0401's Avatar
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    I think he was being sarcastic... :P
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  10. #9  
    Forum Professor Obviously's Avatar
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    There's no way I'm reading all that.

    matt0401, if I may ask, can you sum up what you believe to be the most striking points in the conversation? Perferably from both sides?
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  11. #10  
    Forum Freshman matt0401's Avatar
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    Views on higher beings:

    Matt: There is absolutely no possibility of a higher being/god. (Strong Atheistic)
    Michael: There is one god who is responsible for the design and creation of all that exists. (Monotheistic)

    Views on meaning of life:

    Matt: The meaning of life is whatever one decides is their own. There is no specific path for anybody. (Nihilistic)
    Michael: The meaning of life is to spread god's word and follow and enforce the rules of the bible. Also, to help others live life with the same level of prosperity as your own. (Evangelical, Philanthropic)

    Views on morality:

    Matt: Everybody has the right to do as they please as long as it doesn't inflict on the basic rights of others. There is no such thing as moral/immoral. Actions in general should contribute to society. (Libertarian, Utilitarian)
    Michael: Morality is defined by the bible, though some specifics may be inaccurate due to issues with time/translation. Any immoral thoughts/actions should be corrected and if not repressed. (Conservative, Religious)


    This should help. Reading a long MSN conversation infested with typos isn't particularly my idea of a fun time either. :P
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  12. #11  
    Forum Professor Obviously's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0401
    Views on higher beings:

    Matt: There is absolutely no possibility of a higher being/god. (Strong Atheistic)
    Michael: There is one god who is responsible for the design and creation of all that exists. (Monotheistic)

    Views on meaning of life:

    Matt: The meaning of life is whatever one decides is their own. There is no specific path for anybody. (Nihilistic)
    Michael: The meaning of life is to spread god's word and follow and enforce the rules of the bible. Also, to help others live life with the same level of prosperity as your own. (Evangelical, Philanthropic)

    Views on morality:

    Matt: Everybody has the right to do as they please as long as it doesn't inflict on the basic rights of others. There is no such thing as moral/immoral. Actions in general should contribute to society. (Libertarian, Utilitarian)
    Michael: Morality is defined by the bible, though some specifics may be inaccurate due to issues with time/translation. Any immoral thoughts/actions should be corrected and if not repressed. (Conservative, Religious)


    This should help. Reading a long MSN conversation infested with typos isn't particularly my idea of a fun time either. :P
    Many thanks :-D

    • In "Views On Higher Beings" Michael seem to commit the fallacy of begging the question. You however, have no argument. But you do take an absolute stand of "no possibility", and I can therefore give a point to no one here.
    • In "Views On The Meaning of Life" it seems obvious that Michael is not aware that he's doing the very thing you're predicting. He's following what he percieves to be the meaning of life. So it seems you get a point by the fact that you manage to recognize that the meaning of life depends upon what a person deems to be so.
    • In "Views On Morality", neither side seems to recognize the fact that species create their own moral/social structure, depending upon what is the most favourable for the genes survival (as far as I've understood it). However, considering Michael again fallaciously fails to recognize that he's picking and choosing what he deems to be moral from the bible, and he's again managed to commit the fallacy of begging the question, it will earn him -2 points. Alas, you are mistaken by saying everyone has a right to do as they please. For example, serial killers don't have the right to do as they please in every matter, and neither should they. It seems that you gain one point here.


    Overall score (not, of course, considering the whole conversation) is:

    Matt: 2
    Michael: 0

    It seems obvious who I'm going to vote for :P
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  13. #12  
    Time Lord
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    Is it not remarkable that you two have these diametric ideals, yet in practice behave roughly the same?

    We may claim any position we like, but human nature anchors us all to one common pivot anyway.
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  14. #13  
    Forum Freshman matt0401's Avatar
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    [quote="Obviously"]
    Quote Originally Posted by matt0401
    Alas, you are mistaken by saying everyone has a right to do as they please. For example, serial killers don't have the right to do as they please in every matter, and neither should they.
    That's not exactly where I stand when it comes to my views on rights. I think that everybody has the right to do as they please as long as their actions don't inflict on others' rights. The right to live would be included in that. Therefore I don't view murder as moral.
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