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Thread: Why God doesn't show himself?

  1. #1 Why God doesn't show himself? 
    Forum Ph.D. Hanuka's Avatar
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    I was wondering... Lets say there is God... why doesn't he gives us a solid
    proof of his existense?
    I mean... what reason does he have to keep his existense such a mystery?
    Is it like against some cosmic rules that Gods should keep their identity a secret or what?

    It's pretty weird for the allmighty to do such a thing while people have been
    fighting eachother for generations because he didn't give us a solid proof of his existense...


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  3. #2 Re: Why God doesn't show himself? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    I was wondering... Lets say there is God... why doesn't he gives us a solid
    proof of his existense?
    I mean... what reason does he have to keep his existense such a mystery?
    Is it like against some cosmic rules that Gods should keep their identity a secret or what?

    It's pretty weird for the allmighty to do such a thing while people have been
    fighting eachother for generations because he didn't give us a solid proof of his existense...
    Can you imagine a world in which God did prove existence as you suggest He could? Is this world you imagine a better place? Tell us about it.

    I mean the world you seem to be imagining is one where there is no opposition to the beliefs of one group of people - no fighting because the people who disagree simply would not exist. I guess such thinking should not surprise me for there have been many groups in history who have suggested that the world would be a better place if those who think differently than they do just didn't exist any more.


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  4. #3  
    Forum Ph.D. Hanuka's Avatar
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    I didn' say that the world would be a better place, I just asked why God doesnt
    show himself.

    There would still be wars regardless of any powerful being being(lol) discovered
    and there will ALWAYS be differences in opinion.

    The reason that I'm asking this is because I'm confused with what does God has to gain from keeping
    his existence shrouded in mystery?(that is if he even exists offcourse)
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  5. #4  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    I didn' say that the world would be a better place, I just asked why God doesnt
    show himself.

    ...

    The reason that I'm asking this is because I'm confused with what does God has to gain from keeping
    his existence shrouded in mystery?(that is if he even exists offcourse)
    Well since you don't know that it would be a better place if He did, then I cannot see how you could raise an objection to this actually being the answer to your question. If He exists, then apparently He doesn't think the world would be a better place if He did prove His existence to people, any more than He has already done so.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    There would still be wars regardless of any powerful being being(lol) discovered
    and there will ALWAYS be differences in opinion.
    Agreed. So this would not even solve the problem that you have suggested that it would solve. Instead some problems that we do have would only be that much worse. The self-righteous theists would only be that much more unbearable and obnoxious, don't you think? Anyway, I strongly suspect that most things that might seem like proof to us would only change people's threshold and expectations, so that actually achieving such a proof that really works would be so invasive that the result would be much much worse rather than only a little worse.
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  6. #5  
    Forum Isotope Bunbury's Avatar
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    If you had created this mess would you show your face?
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  7. #6  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunbury
    If you had created this mess would you show your face?
    Which just goes to show that if God were not actually responsible for this mess then He still would not show His face knowing that this would only reinforce the determination of those who really are responsible for the mess, to blame everything that goes wrong on everything but themselves.
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  8. #7  
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    imo even if god showed his face, likelihood is that there still would be a substantial number of people who (1) either deny that he is the real god, but just an impostor; or (2) will ask the question "who gave YOU the goddamn right to lord it over us ?"

    god showing his face might convince those who are willing to be convinced by evidence, which is still a long way off from saying that everyone will be
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  9. #8  
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    There would need to be a lineup of gods around several city blocks that would have to stand up and show they existed based on how many gods have been purported to exist.

    Clearly, there is a conspiracy between the gods to play hide and seek.
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  10. #9  
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    I would most certainly like to be there to witness (with popcorn in hand) the Christian, Muslim and Jew standing before the Abrahamic god with bated breath waiting for him to finish:

    "Eenie, meenie..."
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  11. #10  
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    What would the poor Christians of this forum do if Allah was the one who stood up?

    At least we'd finally know that when he asked Christians to "Turn the other cheek" it was meant for Muslims to have a clean shot to stick their swords.
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  12. #11  
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    I have an idea on this... Ok. if there Is a God out there that created all and knows and sees all to this day.. He knows we EVOLVED!! He's waiting for us to finally figure this out.. BUT with EVOLUTION comes Knowledge rite.. Well we finally discovered the universe was created with some type of Big Bang. But FROM WHAT, & How & When & What means did it Start from. I'm thinking that when we finally discover how, when and where the universe was started, He or It or whatever god is will start to reveal more Proof of an existance, giving more insite on how to get ot or just comune with him. Maybe he is in a Science lab in some universal university creating Galaxies with all his other Godly student.. WE will NEVER know this!! But future generations May have this revealed to them, Again We Will Never Know This.. Ok so back to the Idea here.. If GOD does exist And I think there is a CREATOR out there (just not the God Any of the religions on this planet believe in) he created the Universal Billions of years ago which may be seconds in his prodoculture cup, but he did create and know whats going to happen step by step kinda like where doing with worms rite now.. He knows that we would Evolve over time, gain knowledge over time, seek him out over time. but we need to figure this out...We evolved, HE Created, Cant we all just save the planet....????
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  13. #12 Re: Why God doesn't show himself? 
    Forum Freshman Carbon's Avatar
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    good post, tC. 187
    :wink:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    I was wondering... Lets say there is God...
    the thing i don't get is, that there are doubts.. Isn't it obvious that there must be a god?
    All you guys are really clever. You know how nature workes. You must know how impossible it has to be that everything is what it is because of luck? there must be anyone who created the Big Bang. Anything with power..
    Do you think, that all you can see with your eyes is there, because of luck? just take a look at our brains. Is it luck that they work?
    look at our DNA..at our cells..at photosynthesis...at the distance to the sun (we can live here, because of the perfect distance to the sun..), you can look at everything.. is all this Luck??

    wow, if noone/nothing has created all this, we all are very very lucky guys.. :-D

    cheers
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    The only thing that's lucky in our evolution is the distense of our earth from the sun...
    all else is pure adaption to ones inviroment.
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  15. #14 Re: Why God doesn't show himself? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbon
    good post, tC. 187
    :wink:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    I was wondering... Lets say there is God...
    the thing i don't get is, that there are doubts.. Isn't it obvious that there must be a god?
    All you guys are really clever. You know how nature workes. You must know how impossible it has to be that everything is what it is because of luck? there must be anyone who created the Big Bang. Anything with power..
    Do you think, that all you can see with your eyes is there, because of luck? just take a look at our brains. Is it luck that they work?
    look at our DNA..at our cells..at photosynthesis...at the distance to the sun (we can live here, because of the perfect distance to the sun..), you can look at everything.. is all this Luck??

    wow, if noone/nothing has created all this, we all are very very lucky guys.. :-D

    cheers
    The theory of evolution isn't based on luck. Luck has absolutely nothing to do with it. The theory of evolution is based on adaption to ones environment.
    "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell
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  16. #15  
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    ofc.
    but everything has to be perfect. if not, we would not exist. Evolution is ofcourse no luck, but evolution works because everything works perfect. and there are over 100000000000 things that must be perfect..
    (i know my english sucks, and i didn't explain well, but i think if you read both my posts you will understand my point..)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbon
    ofc.
    but everything has to be perfect. if not, we would not exist. Evolution is ofcourse no luck, but evolution works because everything works perfect. and there are over 100000000000 things that must be perfect..
    (i know my english sucks, and i didn't explain well, but i think if you read both my posts you will understand my point..)
    What exactly do you think needs to be perfect? I'm fairly certain that almost everything you come up with can be explained rationally without including some super powered, all knowing, all seeing being that zapped us into existence because he was bored one day and needed some excitement.

    God: "Hey Bill I've been feeling a bit bored lately."

    Bill: "Yeah I know what you mean. Life is so drab what with all this blackness and empty space around."

    God: "Well let's provide some excitement to our existence then."

    *ZAP*
    "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell
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  18. #17 Re: Why God doesn't show himself? 
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    [quote="Hanuka"]I was wondering... Lets say there is God... why doesn't he gives us a solid
    proof of his existense?[quote]
    He does give clear indications how he can be approached.
    If we don't accept them, we don't approach him.
    It's that simple

    I mean... what reason does he have to keep his existense such a mystery?
    do you think there is any reason why we would prefer such an environment (one with an out-of-the-way god)?
    I mean suppose we had desires to express that we couldn't really do with a full effulgent cause of all causes bearing down on us all the time?
    Where would we go to fulfill our desires?

    Is it like against some cosmic rules that Gods should keep their identity a secret or what?
    maybe you could say it is a cosmic rule for the material world
    there might be different "cosmic rules" in the spiritual world

    It's pretty weird for the allmighty to do such a thing while people have been
    fighting eachother for generations because he didn't give us a solid proof of his existense...
    lol
    I guess we have unresolved anger issues
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by BumFluff
    Quote Originally Posted by Carbon
    ofc.
    but everything has to be perfect. if not, we would not exist. Evolution is ofcourse no luck, but evolution works because everything works perfect. and there are over 100000000000 things that must be perfect..
    (i know my english sucks, and i didn't explain well, but i think if you read both my posts you will understand my point..)
    What exactly do you think needs to be perfect? I'm fairly certain that almost everything you come up with can be explained rationally without including some super powered, all knowing, all seeing being that zapped us into existence because he was bored one day and needed some excitement.

    God: "Hey Bill I've been feeling a bit bored lately."

    Bill: "Yeah I know what you mean. Life is so drab what with all this blackness and empty space around."

    God: "Well let's provide some excitement to our existence then."

    *ZAP*
    funny..

    I don't think that god created our earth exactly as the bible says. Let's say that there was a big bang, with no adam and eve.
    What made this Bigbang? was it luck? in a place with endless area there is a galaxy with some planets. one of them is our planet. It has the perfect distance to the sun and to the other planets. It has exisited in many miljon years, and nothing has ever destroyed it.
    Everything works perfect in harmony.
    Everything from the first moment has optimal for our evolution! Evolution does not come from nothing!
    We need water for our evolution. we need air for our evolution. we need food, trees - 100000 things. But everything is there for us. for our evolution.
    its perfect for our and the planets development.

    do you understand me now?
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  20. #19  
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    The ONLY way, ONLY WAY life here, meaning people and all animals is if we were Transplanted by Other beings here to grow and start a new planet of evolution. Kinda like if we dont fix the Global warming problem and were forced to leave earth in search of life elsewhere. Well you think were, or whomever put us here, put there eggs all in one bascket. no they would have like we will find several possibilities and set down on all of them. then from time to time check up on each one to see how it is EVOLVING threw time. It's not like they could build computer banks and machines and everything we have now back then to live with so they basically got thrown back into the STONE AGE for them & Us started Lifes process over and hope that threw time we find each other again and again. Pretty hard for the Belivers to think of or Imagine but that would be the ONLY way life here could Kick-Start in 7 days.....

    Nuff said...
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbon
    funny..

    I don't think that god created our earth exactly as the bible says. Let's say that there was a big bang, with no adam and eve.
    What made this Bigbang? was it luck? in a place with endless area there is a galaxy with some planets. one of them is our planet. It has the perfect distance to the sun and to the other planets. It has exisited in many miljon years, and nothing has ever destroyed it.
    Everything works perfect in harmony.
    Everything from the first moment has optimal for our evolution! Evolution does not come from nothing!
    We need water for our evolution. we need air for our evolution. we need food, trees - 100000 things. But everything is there for us. for our evolution.
    its perfect for our and the planets development.

    do you understand me now?
    Giving the billions and billions of possible planets in the Solar System chances are that at least one of them will have the correct amount of life growing material in them to form life. We need water for the beginnings of life, why do we need air (Even though life as we known it requires oxygen)? If a creature evolved on a planet without the air we know from Earth then I'm fairly certain that that creature would evolve to breath the air that it evolved in. I won't even discuss food and trees because that's pretty staright forward.
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbon
    Everything works perfect in harmony.

    do you understand me now?
    I think I understand you. You're saying that our environment suits us so well, something must have made it so.

    Flip it around: We fit into our environment. What made us so, is us.

    Suppose you're a black moth on a tree trunk. A black tree trunk just perfect for your camouflage. It even has bark texture matching your own markings. Do you suppose the tree is perfect for you, or you are perfect for the tree? Take your pick. By the way, that tree is black from industrial soot.

    Carbon, you are constantly finding ways to better harmonize with your environment. We could dump you in the high arctic and you'd build igloos (or die... that's cruel selection for ya). Then your kids would say, "How can anybody live without snow? It couldn't be dumb luck the world is made of snow - snow is just perfect for our survival."
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  23. #22  
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    okok
    your right with the thing that we maybe could live without air and without many other things.
    but don't you have to agree with me that there are super many things that we need to develop? are all this things luck?
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbon
    okok
    your right with the thing that we maybe could live without air and without many other things.
    but don't you have to agree with me that there are super many things that we need to develop? are all this things luck?
    evolution is a very in depth and miraculous thing. It's been going on for billions of years now. When one part of the body changes other parts of the body change to meet those changes.
    "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell
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  25. #24  
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    It's obvious that God just showing up wouldn't change too much in this world (unless we perhaps filmed the event?); however, if he/she/it showed up to answer all our questions, a great deal might change (I do wonder for how long though). If everything was to be better by God's apperance, he would have to stay in plain view and close to us at all times, answering our questions directly. That would've made a nice change. But if indeed we are of the nature of returing to our past form as soon as God leaves, then it's obvious that God made us this way for a reason. It's clear that his idea of entertainment is... well.

    If indeed he is loving and careing, the solution he's made now is not helping at all. And him being omniscient should know that.

    As for my response to the things discussed here which has little to do with the topic at hand: Perfection is an illusion.
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  26. #25  
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    [quote="Obviously"]It's obvious that God just showing up wouldn't change too much in this world (unless we perhaps filmed the event?); however, if he/she/it showed up to answer all our questions, a great deal might change (I do wonder for how long though). If everything was to be better by God's apperance, he would have to stay in plain view and close to us at all times, answering our questions directly. That would've made a nice change. But if indeed we are of the nature of returing to our past form as soon as God leaves, then it's obvious that God made us this way for a reason. It's clear that his idea of entertainment is... well.[\quote]
    perhaps when it finally sinks in we won't return to it ...
    If indeed he is loving and careing, the solution he's made now is not helping at all. And him being omniscient should know that.
    Its not clear what you know to make such a statement with confidence
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  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by punarmusiko
    Its not clear what you know to make such a statement with confidence
    As long as there's no argument against what I said, I have no worries.
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