Notices
Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: A CLOCKWORK ORANGE AND BLACK

  1. #1 A CLOCKWORK ORANGE AND BLACK 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    George Town Tasmania Australia
    Posts
    64
    Anthony Burgess has bookshelves which sag under what looks like a story of blistering success: more than thirty novels, many published to international critical acclaim; dozens of non-fiction titles, from a discursive study of beds to a two-volume, 1,200-page history of English literature, written in Italian; the long entry for the Novel in the Encyclopaedia Britannica; librettos and musical scores: symphonies, song settings, sonatas; translations into and out of English; screenplays, documentaries and lectures; and countless reviews, thousands and thousands of them, a sample to be found in two collections, Urgent Copy (1968) and Homage to Qwert Yuiop (1986). Penguin have awarded modern classic status to Earthly Powers (1980) and A Clockwork Orange (1962). The latter owes its fame to Stanley Kubrick's brutal, stylish film. The musical score of this film insinuated itself into my psyche quite unbeknownst to my waking self. -Ron Price with thanks to Roger Lewis, Anthony Burgess: A Life, 2004.

    As I come to my late adulthood
    I look back to 1962
    as the year of great beginnings,
    not that I knew it at the time.
    I did not know much then, at 18
    as the world came close to the edge
    of giving it all to the cockroaches.
    Was it Kennedy who saved us in October?

    Was Clockwork Orange a wake-up call
    to a new anti-utopian world
    of violence and state control
    emerging, then, as I struggled
    to control a embryonically massive id
    that was exercising its own control?

    I did not know, then, busy as I was
    trying to pass nine grade 13 subjects
    in my last months of freedom before
    a bi-polar disorder rushed into my life
    with its own controlling factor,
    its own clockwork orange and black,
    its own violence, emotional disarray
    and a fear and confusion as deep as
    the one you portrayed Anthony/Stanley.

    Ron Price
    16 April 2004


    married for 37 years; teacher for 30; living in Australia for 33 years; Baha'i for 45 years. Writer of poetry for 25 years.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Freshman Coffee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    84
    While I have respect for Anthony Burgess, but it pales in conparison to Isaac Asimov. The man managed to write, well, a frak-load of books, all of which seem interesting (I could read all of them, but I only read about 30 books a year).

    Besides. Who cares when you have Gaiman, Pratchett, and Banks?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Professor wallaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,521
    And Clark.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4 No Argument From Me 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    George Town Tasmania Australia
    Posts
    64
    No question about your comments. I remain, yours-Ron Price 8)
    married for 37 years; teacher for 30; living in Australia for 33 years; Baha'i for 45 years. Writer of poetry for 25 years.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,168
    Ron, your writing style is reminiscent of John Updike: skillfully done, artfully written.
    And utterly pointless.

    Since, the vast critical acclaim for Updike suggests I was wrong about him, it raises the possibility that I am wrong about you. Could you demonstrate this errancy by explaining the point of your posting.

    Thank you.
    Ophiolite
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6 Brief Explanation of The Point of My Posting 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    George Town Tasmania Australia
    Posts
    64
    Your question reminds me somewhat of my own reaction to a great deal of modern literature and poetry. I say to myself what was the point of that? Most of the time I am unable to confront the author. Here at this site it is different. You can say: "look here Ron, what was that all about?" And I can reply, as I do in the next paragraph.


    Anthony Burgess and Stanley Kubrick gave birth to a great deal of popular sci-fi in the last half of the 20th century. All I do is describe briefly some of the origins of that experience by going back to Burgess, the man, by focusing on Clockwork Orange in 1962 and then relating it to my own life. I tend to do this with much of the cinema as millions of others do. This is a sci-fi site and so my posting seemed a reasonable one, at least to me. How is that for starters? If you want more just ask and I'm happy to elaborate more fully.-Ron Price, Tasmania
    married for 37 years; teacher for 30; living in Australia for 33 years; Baha'i for 45 years. Writer of poetry for 25 years.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Bachelors Degree
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    405
    I'm pretty sure Anthony Burgess would kick your teeth in if you'd suggested to his face that he was a sci-fi author! :P
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8 No Teeth! 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    George Town Tasmania Australia
    Posts
    64
    He might. Back in the 1960s Clockwork Orange was seen by many as a combination of: social realism, science-fiction, frightening satire, unbelieveable/believeable garbage, plain fiction, plain truth--pay your money and you take your pick. Still, I'm inclined to think that over 40 years later, Anthony and I might have a good chat about the subject and he would allow me to keep my teeth. He might, in the end, find my views, as you say, not very accurate. Perhaps, to be safe, if I just took my partial plates out, he would have no teeth to kick out. Over 40 years ago when his book came out I was trying to pass high school exams and make it with the girls. I passed the exams but never made it, then, with the girls. -Ron Price, Tasmania 8)
    married for 37 years; teacher for 30; living in Australia for 33 years; Baha'i for 45 years. Writer of poetry for 25 years.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9 Re: Brief Explanation of The Point of My Posting 
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,168
    First Ron thank you for explaining the motiviation for your post. It made sense.
    Second, thank you for confirming my judgement of you that you would not rise to the provocative way I phrased my questions. Very satisfying. I usually seem to get that one wrong.
    I was puzzled, however, by one thing you said.
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPrice
    Anthony Burgess and Stanley Kubrick gave birth to a great deal of popular sci-fi in the last half of the 20th century.:
    I couldn't quite think of anything that fitted this. (Should that be fit this? I have a mental block on some past tenses.) What did you have in mind? Were you thinking StarWars as being derivative of 2001? Or what? I think I've got a mental block on this too.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10 Total aside alert. 
    j
    j is offline
    Forum Bachelors Degree
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    431
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    ... that fitted this. (Should that be fit this?
    'Fit'; the analogy would have 'fit'; the suit would have been 'fitted', as well as 'hung', as opposed to the man, who was 'hanged'.

    [No off-color jokes will be accepted in responses to this post]
    Why do they want us to believe Conspiracy Theories?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11 No authority on sci-fi in the 1960s and 1970s 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    George Town Tasmania Australia
    Posts
    64
    I made the statement, I suppose, from a personal perspective. I am certainly no authority on the origin and development of sci-fi in the '50s and '60s. But, as the writer of Clockwork Orange first published in 1962, Anthony Burgess provided sci-fi material for me. When I first saw the film in about 1970, it had a sci-fi feeling, text, content--back then. Perhaps now it would not be seen as such; perhaps even then by some. Perhaps in 1970 it was seen as social realism.

    It gave me the feeling then, and now, that I was watching Huxley's Brave New World(1932). Now that too was social realism but, for me, it was a kind of science fiction. I have always found sci-fi a very serious genre that deals with the present by projecting the reader/viewer into the future. Enough! I rest my limited case.-Ron Price, Tasmania
    married for 37 years; teacher for 30; living in Australia for 33 years; Baha'i for 45 years. Writer of poetry for 25 years.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12 A Whole New Ball Game 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    George Town Tasmania Australia
    Posts
    64
    Now that posting takes us all into a whole new ball game, cosmology, set of issues, set of perspectives. Sadly, I must have my evening meal. I don't think well on an empty stomach. I have enough problems thinking on a full one. I must confess, though, that aliens have not been part of my core issues, central concerns, my particular set of worries in the last half century of my life. I'm sure there are millions of others who will take you up on this issue.-Ron Price, Tasmania.
    married for 37 years; teacher for 30; living in Australia for 33 years; Baha'i for 45 years. Writer of poetry for 25 years.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13 Five Years Later 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    George Town Tasmania Australia
    Posts
    64
    Five Years Later.....I return with some more thoughts: In 1962 the dystopian novel A Clockwork Orange was published. Inspired initially by an incident during World War II in which Burgess's wife Lynne was allegedly robbed and assaulted in London during the blackout by deserters from the U.S. Army (an event that may have contributed to a miscarriage she suffered), the book was an examination of free will and morality. The young anti-hero, Alex, captured after a career of violence and mayhem, is given aversion conditioning to stop his violence. It makes him defenceless against other people and unable to enjoy music that, besides violence, had been an intense pleasure for him. In the non-fiction book Flame Into Being (1985), Burgess described A Clockwork Orange as "a jeu d'esprit knocked off for money in three weeks, it became known as the raw material for a film which seemed to glorify sex and violence. The film made it easy for readers of the book to misunderstand what it was about, and the misunderstanding will pursue me till I die."

    Dystopian novels are, in some ways, the opposite of utopian novels and both, it could be argued deal with a type of science fiction or a type of social realism---or just plain entertainment. You take your choice and you think your thoughts about your choice. That's all for now.-Ron 8)
    married for 37 years; teacher for 30; living in Australia for 33 years; Baha'i for 45 years. Writer of poetry for 25 years.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Forum Isotope Bunbury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,590
    Earthly Powers is a far better book by Burgess.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    96
    I loved both of Burgess' SF novels, A Clockwork Orange and The Wanting Seed. I think what Burgess and Kubrick were trying to do was show the futility of reliance on new technology to cure social ills, or change people. This type of SF was very popular in the 60's. It followed from the literary accomplishments of genre writers in the 1950's. I think that the next step in the development of the genre after the 1950's - particularly with the founding and success of Galaxy Magazine and The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction, both of which stressed literary values as much as scientific or fantastic extrapolation - was to encourage mainstream writers with some literary clout to become tourists in SF. That's pretty much what happened. In the 60's American genre literary values combined with the "futility-of-it-all" motifs of what was called the British "New Wave," and works like this were produced in an international cross-pollination of ideas that attracted some heavy-hitters. Lots of people still are turned off by the pessimism of it all, but I personally think that they make some of the best stories out there.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Forum Professor
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Northumbria UK
    Posts
    1,043
    I seem to remember that the film " A Clockwork Orange " was shown in the cinemas here in the UK in 1972, it ran for a few months and was then withdrawn from viewing, why was this ?
    .
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17 Explanation of Withdrawal of Film 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    George Town Tasmania Australia
    Posts
    64
    The British authorities considered the sexual violence extreme, furthermore, there occurred legal claims that the movie A Clockwork Orange had inspired true copycat crimes, as per press cuttings at the British Film Institute. In March 1972, at trial, the prosecutor accusing the fourteen-year-old-boy defendant of the manslaughter of a classmate, referred to A Clockwork Orange, telling the judge that the case had a macabre relevance to the film. The attacker, a Bletchley boy of sixteen, pleaded guilty after telling police that friends had told him of the film "and the beating up of an old boy like this one"; defence counsel told the trial "the link between this crime and sensational literature, particularly A Clockwork Orange, is established beyond reasonable doubt". The press also blamed the film for a rape in which the attackers sang "Singin' in the Rain". Christiane Kubrick, the director's wife, has said that the family received threats and had protesters outside their home.Subsequently, Kubrick asked Warner Brothers to withdraw the film from British distribution, disliking the allegation that the film was responsible for copycat violence in real life. (Go to Wikipedia for more)
    married for 37 years; teacher for 30; living in Australia for 33 years; Baha'i for 45 years. Writer of poetry for 25 years.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    Forum Freshman Cheesepole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Adelaide, Australia
    Posts
    31
    Hmm, not sure what to think about that. I thoroughly enjoyed the film and thought it was doing quite the opposite of glamorising rape, murder and the likes.

    However, I can understand how some people would attain certain motives from it. I wouldn't blame it on the filmmaker or the film itself, though - it's art, up for interpretation. It's the crazies who watch it and take it in that way.
    Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. Albert Einstein
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •