Thread: Planning an Earth Invasion?

I posted this on another forum years ago. I figure it qualifies as fiction.

Just thinking of the logistics involved. Let's say an alien civilization picks up a 'WOW' signal from Earth, maybe something like Marconi's first trans Atlantic radio signal. Regardless they soon figure out where it's coming from and over time they learn a little more about us.

Only problem is, Earth signals have taken couple hundred years to get.there. The only way to reach Earth is to use generational spaceships.

The first problem might be to predict how much more advanced we would be when they got here. There may even be a danger of us overtaking them in the technology department and thus they may suffer defeat or we might not even be here upon their arrival. There could even be a chance that we're on our way to conquer their planet.. I suppose they could monitor us just in case our advances mean they better turn around.

Now I'm kind of using this scenario to try and ascertain if there is futility in conducting interstellar war. I think the wise decision would be to either not go at all or sincerely go in peace.

Then again, an alien force may already be en route and if so, what kind of logistical problems would they need to overcome to ensure victory? What would the plan be?

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

I posted this on another forum years ago. I figure it qualifies as fiction.

Just thinking of the logistics involved. Let's say an alien civilization picks up a 'WOW' signal from Earth, maybe something like Marconi's first trans Atlantic radio signal. Regardless they soon figure out where it's coming from and over time they learn a little more about us.

Only problem is, Earth signals have taken couple hundred years to get.there. The only way to reach Earth is to use generational spaceships.

The first problem might be to predict how much more advanced we would be when they got here. There may even be a danger of us overtaking them in the technology department and thus they may suffer defeat or we might not even be here upon their arrival. There could even be a chance that we're on our way to conquer their planet.. I suppose they could monitor us just in case our advances mean they better turn around.

Now I'm kind of using this scenario to try and ascertain if there is futility in conducting interstellar war. I think the wise decision would be to either not go at all or sincerely go in peace.

Then again, an alien force may already be en route and if so, what kind of logistical problems would they need to overcome to ensure victory? What would the plan be?

You have opened up a large can of alien worms!

One of the issues involved in this whole concept is that the radio messages the aliens are getting is fairly old compared to the current state of human technology. How old depends strictly on their distance from us. Marconi's first trans Atlantic radio signal was made in 1901, so if they are only now picking up that transmission, it is already about 120 years old.

But let's say they have been listening to it for 20 years, and are now receiving "news" about the humans up until about 1920. They would have learned many things, particularly about a great war between Earthlings which killed millions of people, and a virus which did the same.

One of the primary problems for the aliens is that they are getting news that is 100 years old. They have not heard of WWII and nuclear weapons, nor have they heard about space flight and manned missions to other worlds. And they will always be 100 years "in the dark" on what those crazy humans are doing in their current time frame.

How would they account for these unknowns? They might not want to invade a planet that holds thousands of thermonuclear weapons, and is destroying its environment at an alarming rate. Then again, maybe they would.

Clearly there is no obvious answers to some of these questions, but if they were advanced enough to send a spaceship to Earth, they would be getting news about the humans at an increasing rate (on approach), and catching up quickly about what we are doing. Once they learn about all the weapons and environmental destruction, do they turn around and go home? Or do they see an advantage in this some how? The proposal you have made is inherently complex and requires additional elements to decide how things would proceed.

Of course all of the above suggests that the aliens could understand our language and decipher what we were doing at that time, and predict how we might have advanced to our current state, which they could never determine without getting closer and closer to the radio source. This can of worms likely ranks near the top on the complexity scale.

NBC News has a link on this which might provide some additional notions :


"Why These Scientists Fear Contact With Space Aliens"

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/th...aliens-n717271

. The proposal you have made is inherently complex and requires additional elements to decide how things would proceed

Exactly why I posted it. Take something like War of the Worlds, poor planning did the aliens in. Just didn’t have all the info they needed and to miss a killer microbe is inexcusable. Not many Hollywood films where the aliens planned well…lol.

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Then again, an alien force may already be en route and if so, what kind of logistical problems would they need to overcome to ensure victory? What would the plan be?

Not sure about this one, however:
The Vogons would likely clear a path with their constructor fleet, then send probes with the message "Surrender or die, Earthlings."
The Dracons would probably ask for a meeting with David Icke to help evacuate all upright lizards before deploying their death rays.

So I think it depends on the type of alien out there.

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

. The proposal you have made is inherently complex and requires additional elements to decide how things would proceed

Exactly why I posted it. Take something like War of the Worlds, poor planning did the aliens in. Just didn’t have all the info they needed and to miss a killer microbe is inexcusable. Not many Hollywood films where the aliens planned well…lol.

Due to the issue with pathogens, etc, one supposes that an alien invasion might involve robots, which would not be adversely impacted by such problems.

We would have to be prepared with alien malware in order to infect them. That might be a tall order since we would not know what OS they were using, and other aspects of their programming. But some really gifted hackers might find a way to defeat them. Other approaches, like directed EMP weapons, might take them out.

Originally Posted by ox

So I think it depends on the type of alien out there.

In such a war of the worlds, we cannot afford a robot gap!

Some handy tips here I've cut and pasted.

Use your mental powers to block their mind control.
Use your physical powers to fight back.
Seek strength from friends and family.
Use intuition to sense them coming.
Seek help from your God.
Find what they're allergic to.

Know your alien.
Example:

In Star Trek which is set in the 23rd century, the Romulans were speculated as having split from another alien species, the Vulcans, in the distant past. In contrast to the Vulcans, who were presented as peaceful and logic-oriented, the Romulans were depicted as militaristic, having founded an interstellar empire.

Originally Posted by ox

Use your mental powers to block their mind control.
Use your physical powers to fight back.
Seek strength from friends and family.
Use intuition to sense them coming.
Seek help from your God.
Find what they're allergic to.

Or bring back Heaven’s Gate if it ever left.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heav...ligious_group)

Excerpt:

Eventually, Applewhite and Nettles resolved to contact extraterrestrials, and they sought like-minded followers. They published advertisements for meetings, where they recruited disciples, whom they called "the crew".^[21] At the events, they purported to represent beings from another planet, the Next Level, who sought participants for an experiment. They stated that those who agreed to take part in the experiment would be brought to a higher evolutionary level

One person who takes the threat seriously.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/509655...igator-aliens/

The British government will have a COBRA meeting.
"We'll fight them on the beaches, we'll never surrender."

But seriously, however many early warning systems we might have from our space telescopes they are likely to be useless, because an alien fleet will have invisibility technology.

Originally Posted by ox

One person who takes the threat seriously.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/509655...igator-aliens/

The British government will have a COBRA meeting.
"We'll fight them on the beaches, we'll never surrender."

But seriously, however many early warning systems we might have from our space telescopes they are likely to be useless, because an alien fleet will have invisibility technology.

More than one person has taken the threat seriously. Hawking certainly did, as have others.

And we might even be inviting them here with our broadcasts specifically designed to make contact*.

If they have been watching our TV and movie shows, that would provide major evidence for our lack of intelligence, and thereby demonstrate a minimal risk for invasion.


"Broadcasting Earth’s location could provoke alien invasion, Oxford scientist warns "

* https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...s-nasa-warned/

Originally Posted by Double Helix

If they have been watching our TV and movie shows, that would provide major evidence for our lack of intelligence, and thereby demonstrate a minimal risk for invasion.

We should stop making Derry Girls for a start.

Not comfortable with this subject…..If I invaded Earth with an armada of spaceships would I have to worry about time dilation? If the ships left home planet 10 mins apart and went same speed, a good percentage of c, would they arrive at destination still 10 mins apart? Would multiple ships need to leave at same time, same speed? Is one big ship with all you need to carry out attack better than several smaller ones?

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Not comfortable with this subject…..If I invaded Earth with an armada of spaceships would I have to worry about time dilation? If the ships left home planet 10 mins apart and went same speed, a good percentage of c, would they arrive at destination still 10 mins apart? Would multiple ships need to leave at same time, same speed? Is one big ship with all you need to carry out attack better than several smaller ones?

It seems that the time issue is not a problem as long as all ships have same speed at all times and use same course. All should by synchronized in space by their equivalent speeds, which would not impact their arrival times.

And it would seem that multiple ships would be preferred to one large ship. Redundancy is a major advantage here.

In the movie Independence Day, the aliens were defeated when their mother ship was destroyed by Earthlings, bringing an end to the invasion. Lots of large ships would be ideal. The bigger the better it would seem. Hopefully they have not seen that movie!

Originally Posted by Double Helix

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Not comfortable with this subject…..If I invaded Earth with an armada of spaceships would I have to worry about time dilation? If the ships left home planet 10 mins apart and went same speed, a good percentage of c, would they arrive at destination still 10 mins apart? Would multiple ships need to leave at same time, same speed? Is one big ship with all you need to carry out attack better than several smaller ones?

It seems that the time issue is not a problem as long as all ships have same speed at all times and use same course. All should by synchronized in space by their equivalent speeds, which would not impact their arrival times.

And it would seem that multiple ships would be preferred to one large ship. Redundancy is a major advantage here.

In the movie Independence Day, the aliens were defeated when their mother ship was destroyed by Earthlings, bringing an end to the invasion. Lots of large ships would be ideal. The bigger the better it would seem. Hopefully they have not seen that movie!

Is it necessary to keep propulsion system on if you’ve attained your maximum velocity in deep space? Hate to use the word ‘glide’ here but couldn’t you just move basically unhindered and only use engines/system to correct course should it be altered?

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Is it necessary to keep propulsion system on if you’ve attained your maximum velocity in deep space? Hate to use the word ‘glide’ here but couldn’t you just move basically unhindered and only use engines/system to correct course should it be altered?

In the vacuum of space, there should be no resistance to flight. No air to slow you down. So in theory you should be able to cruise free of additional propulsion.

The need for boosting your main thrust, or course corrections, might result from flying through dense gas clouds, or the gravitational pull of massive compact objects, like black holes.

But if you have planned your trip properly, and had a giant telescope which would reveal potential flight interferences, your route should not need course corrections. It all depends on what you encounter on the path you choose. If it is free of gas and gravitational forces, it should be a powerless "glide" once you have reached cruising speed.

One supposes if the flight is long enough, you might not be able to avoid everything which would require boosting or course corrections. Even the vacuum of space is not entirely empty.

Originally Posted by Double Helix

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Is it necessary to keep propulsion system on if you’ve attained your maximum velocity in deep space? Hate to use the word ‘glide’ here but couldn’t you just move basically unhindered and only use engines/system to correct course should it be altered?

In the vacuum of space, there should be no resistance to flight. No air to slow you down. So in theory you should be able to cruise free of additional propulsion.

The need for boosting your main thrust, or course corrections, might result from flying through dense gas clouds, or the gravitational pull of massive compact objects, like black holes.

But if you have planned your trip properly, and had a giant telescope which would reveal potential flight interferences, your route should not need course corrections. It all depends on what you encounter on the path you choose. If it is free of gas and gravitational forces, it should be a powerless "glide" once you have reached cruising speed.

One supposes if the flight is long enough, you might not be able to avoid everything which would require boosting or course corrections. Even the vacuum of space is not entirely empty.

Would long distance invasion attack be a one way trip? If invaders returned home at same high speed wouldn’t they return to their planet’s future? More time would have passed for those back home? Home might not be there or even habitable.

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Would long distance invasion attack be a one way trip? If invaders returned home at same high speed wouldn’t they return to their planet’s future? More time would have passed for those back home? Home might not be there or even habitable.

"Would long distance invasion attack be a one way trip? "

That would depend on distance and how advanced their technology is. Assuming you cannot make FTL spacecraft , the longer the trip, the more difficult. Of course they may know of planets in between to replenish supplies, etc.

"If invaders returned home at same high speed wouldn’t they return to their planet’s future? "

Even if they traveled at non-relativistic speeds, which would not have a time variance between either group, they should find their home planet more futuristic simply because they were gone so long. They would never return to their "future", which would require a time machine.

"More time would have passed for those back home? "

The passage of time back home would be as it always was. Only the space voyagers traveling at relativistic speeds have slower clocks, but the travelers do not see this - it would only be apparent to those back home. If you travel out into space at high speeds, you age more slowly over those you left behind.

zinjanthropos said, "Only problem is, Earth signals have taken couple hundred years to get.there. The only way to reach Earth is to use generational spaceships."
So if they can somehow achieve a speed of 0.1c, it would take a couple thousand years to get here. We have nothing to worry about, coming here would make no sense. The cost is way to high for the return.

Originally Posted by Bufofrog

zinjanthropos said, "Only problem is, Earth signals have taken couple hundred years to get.there. The only way to reach Earth is to use generational spaceships."
So if they can somehow achieve a speed of 0.1c, it would take a couple thousand years to get here. We have nothing to worry about, coming here would make no sense. The cost is way to high for the return.

The effort for aliens to get here from their location would depend in large measure on: 1) how far they are coming from, and 2) how advanced their technology is.

The notion that their "coming here would make no sense" is rather presumptuous since life in the universe is probably quite rare, and finding another planet with life, even more primitive than their own, would not deter them. It should in fact inspire them to make the trip. Aside from their studying the Big Bang and other cosmic aspects, examining alien life would be a very high priority for an alien visit. Many or all of them would be scientists, of course. They would never make the spaceship(s) if they were not.

Any alien capable of space travel would be highly inquisitive, which is the hallmark of intelligence. What they might do if they ever arrive is a more rational issue to debate.

Originally Posted by Double Helix

Any alien capable of space travel would be highly inquisitive, which is the hallmark of intelligence.

Not sure if it's being inquisitive but rather an understanding of the laws of nature.
Would they have discovered relativity?
Would they have unified the two types of physics - classical and quantum, to have the God Equation at their disposal?
It could lead to undreamed ways to journey around the universe and possibly into the multiverse.
With all that knowledge I'm wondering why they would be interested in us.
Confined to our own planet we are not a threat and are quite likely to destroy ourselves.
Any resources we might have can wait until intelligent life on this planet has expired.

Originally Posted by ox

With all that knowledge I'm wondering why they would be interested in us.

If they are engaged in interstellar travel, they almost certainly know all the laws of physics and other sciences as well. Not much to be gained by sitting around and talking about it, once it has all be figured out, assuming there is a limit to the non-biological sciences.

Life forms however would be highly variable. Think of coming here at various times in Earth's past, with a wide variety of animals dominating the planet. Most would agree that these bags of chemicals are the most complex organizations of matter in the universe, and their study would seem to be very compelling. Of course this could simply be from a human perspective. But if an alien wanted to study new and unique things, life forms in their range of travel would likely be a primary target.

Originally Posted by Bufofrog

zinjanthropos said, "Only problem is, Earth signals have taken couple hundred years to get.there. The only way to reach Earth is to use generational spaceships."
So if they can somehow achieve a speed of 0.1c, it would take a couple thousand years to get here. We have nothing to worry about, coming here would make no sense. The cost is way to high for the return.

Felt the need to point out that there could be a form of aliens in the universe we may not easily detect : nomads. They would not have a base planet from which they must start out, so their distance to Earth is not absolutely fixed.

Nomadic aliens could be hanging around close by, or simply be cruising by when their instruments detect life on Earth.

We should not assume that all the aliens are bound to some distant planet. We must be prepared for all possibilities for an alien invasion.

Originally Posted by Double Helix

If they are engaged in interstellar travel, they almost certainly know all the laws of physics and other sciences as well.

I think you need to be reminded that before you get too carried away there is zero evidence for the existence of alien life.
It's just an idea that springs from religion and science fiction. That is, from the human imagination.

Originally Posted by ox

Originally Posted by Double Helix

If they are engaged in interstellar travel, they almost certainly know all the laws of physics and other sciences as well.

I think you need to be reminded that before you get too carried away there is zero evidence for the existence of alien life.
It's just an idea that springs from religion and science fiction. That is, from the human imagination.

A recent study by some Chinese scientists estimate that there could be over 40,000 alien infested planets just in our galaxy*. Since we have life on Earth, many would say that alien life is more than "an idea that springs from religion and science fiction". It is highly unlikely we are unique, unless one goes with "ideas" that spring from religion.

Aliens should be predicted by scientific principles. If you have one civilization in the universe, as big as it is, you are likely to have many more. Some would say that logic alone dictates a high probability for this conclusion.


"Milky Way Could Host Over 42,000 Alien Civilizations, Scientists Estimate"

* https://www.newsweek.com/milky-way-o...-drake-1711614

Originally Posted by Double Helix

It is highly unlikely we are unique,

It is also quite likely we are.
Can you explain how life started. How the double helix formed?
How did conscious beings arise from a few chemical elements?
Why is it the double helix and not the quadruple helix?
I think you might be able to answer that one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21091066

For life to get going and keep evolving there needs to be some remarkable coincidences.
Life needs a stable planet in a favourable zone within a solar system.
It needs a planet which is gently spinning and stabilised in some way, like our moon.
There should be no catastrophic events like world's in collision.
If an asteroid had not collided with Earth the dinosaurs would still be kings of the planet.

And so on.
Where else are you going to find that?
Maybe, just maybe a few times in the whole history of the universe with its 2 trillion galaxies.

The fact remains, we will never know about this.
I can think of all those great scientists who never finished their education.
None of them knew the answer. None of them could even explain why the universe bothers to exist.

Originally Posted by ox

Originally Posted by Double Helix

It is highly unlikely we are unique,

It is also quite likely we are.
Can you explain how life started. How the double helix formed?
How did conscious beings arise from a few chemical elements?
Why is it the double helix and not the quadruple helix?
I think you might be able to answer that one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21091066

For life to get going and keep evolving there needs to be some remarkable coincidences.
Life needs a stable planet in a favourable zone within a solar system.
It needs a planet which is gently spinning and stabilised in some way, like our moon.
There should be no catastrophic events like world's in collision.
If an asteroid had not collided with Earth the dinosaurs would still be kings of the planet.

And so on.


Where else are you going to find that?
Maybe, just maybe a few times in the whole history of the universe with its 2 trillion galaxies.

The fact remains, we will never know about this.
I can think of all those great scientists who never finished their education.
None of them knew the answer. None of them could even explain why the universe bothers to exist.

That no one can explain how life or conscious beings arose is academic. The right chemistry, with lots of time, did it all - assuming we think therefore we are.

The quadruple helix, from that story, is not a normal condition and is defined as a "dysfunctional state", which is all that needs to said about it.

The planetary conditions for life to arise seem only to require a stable environment with liquid water and proper chemistry. This could occur on a moon of some planet. Have never read that it requires a precise, Earth-like format.

Catastrophic events gave rise to various stages of evolution on Earth. Humans would likely not have appeared if the dinosaurs had not been wiped out. It is expected that such planets would experience mass extinctions like that periodically, and in fact would drive that planet's evolutionary sequences. The appearance of intelligent life from related precursors only requires a prolonged period of stability, which on Earth can last for many millions of years. Such catastrophic events seem likely to exist in most planetary systems, with or without life.

"The fact remains, we will never know about this" is very true. It is all about probability. Yellow dwarfs, like our sun, have a long life span, and billions are expected to exist in the Milky Way alone.

Probability is the key to drawing any notions about life on other planets. Clearly there are differences of opinion regarding the chances of this happening. This is expected.

Perhaps the better debate is whether intelligent life has evolved on other planets. That would eliminate a lot of planets which may only have primitive life.

It seems probable that the appearance of intelligent life may be much more unique than the appearance of life in general.

Originally Posted by Double Helix

It seems probable that the appearance of intelligent life may be much more unique than the appearance of life in general.

Which seems to contradict what you said earlier.
Great detail on this is provided by the Rare Earth hypothesis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_hypothesis

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lucky-Plane.../dp/1848316569

Originally Posted by ox

Which seems to contradict what you said earlier.

We have all mused about the prospect of alien visitation and their probability in past posts. So I am attempting to find a middle ground on the issue. Central to this is that of intelligent aliens vs. alien life in general. To be sure, the former is not at all well defined by anyone.

After all, alien life would be defined as everything from microbes to invasive species which can travel the galaxy in spaceships. Predictions of life on other planets does not mean they have advanced to intelligent life. One could say that about our planet. We know enough to be dangerous, and possibly wipe ourselves out. Would that make us intelligent? Many would say no. There is no clear dividing line.

So there is another definition that needs to be clarified. But the premise that life in the universe is not rare seems more likely than not. ESA predicts that there are 10^22 to 10^24 stars in the universe. That is quite a few, and suggesting that only one or two of these star systems may have life is a little difficult to accept for some of us. It is an issue which will always be contentious.

Wouldn’t be much sense invading Earth if aliens couldn’t match our weaponry or willingness to duke it out. People assume that if alien technology exists to travel interstellar that it automatically translates to superior weaponry and overwhelmingly armed forces. So could aliens take over the Earth without firing a shot? Sort of use their smarts to blend in and quietly accomplish their goal to acquire the planet. Could that be a possibility, without us suspecting a thing? We’re focused on the sky, meanwhile it’s really happening on the ground.

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

So could aliens take over the Earth without firing a shot? Sort of use their smarts to blend in and quietly accomplish their goal to acquire the planet. Could that be a possibility, without us suspecting a thing? We’re focused on the sky, meanwhile it’s really happening on the ground.

Not only men in black but black eyed kids.
Evidence here that this is one of their bases: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Eyed-.../dp/B08SJ7WXFL

During the day it feels like any other elevated forestry heathland.
But I remember camping out one night on Cannock Chase and it was spooky.
Many locals have reported strange lights zooming up to the sky at night.
What scientific explanation might there be?

Just when I thought is was safe to go back: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hunt-Britis...9HNGRXFN&psc=1

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Wouldn’t be much sense invading Earth if aliens couldn’t match our weaponry or willingness to duke it out. People assume that if alien technology exists to travel interstellar that it automatically translates to superior weaponry and overwhelmingly armed forces. So could aliens take over the Earth without firing a shot? Sort of use their smarts to blend in and quietly accomplish their goal to acquire the planet. Could that be a possibility, without us suspecting a thing? We’re focused on the sky, meanwhile it’s really happening on the ground.

This brings to mind the issue of aliens and how their cultures might have developed politically. Drawing a parallel to Earth, it seems possible that various countries, or factions, evolved on such planets, and like ours, probably had some wars. It seems unlikely that they had it easy integrating all of the aliens on a planet into one big happy country, without some clashes of "culture" (at least in its earliest stages). Peaceful coexistence from the get-go does not seem very probable, again based on human history, and the behavior of animal groups on Earth in general. Peaceful interactions between species and within species is not exactly common.

If they were anything like humans, it would seem that some warfare would have developed during their "cultural evolution" at least, and at some point a global domination by one group would have occurred. This should have greatly increased their ability to develop space travel since they were no longer spending time and effort fighting each other. Judging from their own past, it also seems likely they would have weapons to attack/defend against hostile aliens they may meet on their travels. So many variables in such scenarios.

Unless they were changelings - able to take human form - it seems unlikely that they would be able to take over Earth without our suspecting it. But again, you never know. There are people out there doing some pretty crazy things, and a lot of us are wondering where in the hell they come from.

I just think it easier for machines to travel at extremely high speeds through space so they arrive here much earlier than ships containing living organisms. Machines would be able to monitor our activity and relay it back to an approaching fleet if necessary.

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

I just think it easier for machines to travel at extremely high speeds through space so they arrive here much earlier than ships containing living organisms. Machines would be able to monitor our activity and relay it back to an approaching fleet if necessary.

Just like all the machines we send to Mars, etc., I agree that they are a superior means for space travel and discovery.

The cost of maintaining a safe environment for living organisms in spaceships is vastly higher. It seems likely that aliens would use such machines to roam the stars, and report back what they find. The aliens who sent them may not even need to go to those places, if their machines are sophisticated enough.

All those Mars rovers and orbiters are doing as good a job as humans would, at vastly lower cost and risk. The same means of exploration of space and discovery would seem attractive to all life forms capable of such ventures.

The downside of using machines, is that, if one gets captured, your enemy can reverse engineer it.

All that technological advantage is for nothing, if by the time your main force gets there, the Earthlings have figured out how your weapons work.

Apologies for the late response.

What's the objective of an invasion? Examining it from our own perspective of planning an invasion may provide some insight. Minerals and/or rare metals perhaps? Enslave the inhabitants to create a workforce or, would we want the planet to create a new colony for our own species?

Risk would surely be the biggest obstacle, even if logistically & militarily feasible, any objective benefits would have to be measured against the huge potential for expenditure of lives & resources, creating an enemy capable of future counter attacks or an insurgency, and setting a precedent that could force other alien species to view us as a threat.

An advanced species surely wouldn't view such risk as justifiable, rather, they'd be more likely to view us as a future trading partner and potential ally, maybe even offering us knowledge and technology to bring us closer to their level. This would surely serve to strengthen their civilization, rather than creating a new adversary.

Though, just because an advanced alien civilization doesn't seek to conquer us militarily, doesn't mean they thus automatically would no longer still pose a threat. We would be vulnerable to alien ideas and technological advancement we aren't evolved enough to handle.

We can already see such consequences here on Earth with tribes only contacted in the last few decades, how they're struggling to blend their traditional lifestyles with access to modern concepts and technologies.

As a species, we are far more susceptible to influences and ideas than we would be to any kind of military assault or invasion, for which it would be in our nature to resist against.

Originally Posted by Ascended

Apologies for the late response.

What's the objective of an invasion? Examining it from our own perspective of planning an invasion may provide some insight. Minerals and/or rare metals perhaps? Enslave the inhabitants to create a workforce or, would we want the planet to create a new colony for our own species?

Risk would surely be the biggest obstacle, even if logistically & militarily feasible, any objective benefits would have to be measured against the huge potential for expenditure of lives & resources, creating an enemy capable of future counter attacks or an insurgency, and setting a precedent that could force other alien species to view us as a threat.

An advanced species surely wouldn't view such risk as justifiable, rather, they'd be more likely to view us as a future trading partner and potential ally, maybe even offering us knowledge and technology to bring us closer to their level. This would surely serve to strengthen their civilization, rather than creating a new adversary.

Though, just because an advanced alien civilization doesn't seek to conquer us militarily, doesn't mean they thus automatically would no longer still pose a threat. We would be vulnerable to alien ideas and technological advancement we aren't evolved enough to handle.

We can already see such consequences here on Earth with tribes only contacted in the last few decades, how they're struggling to blend their traditional lifestyles with access to modern concepts and technologies.

As a species, we are far more susceptible to influences and ideas than we would be to any kind of military assault or invasion, for which it would be in our nature to resist against.

Just having some fun….What if we’ve (Earth) already been conquered but just don’t know it? Proponents of an Earth Zoo might think that way. Our conquerors are here or have their sentinels guarding the place, actually protecting us against others who wish to take over. Or maybe they’re just terra forming the planet to suit their future habitat. Get those CO2 levels up, raise the temperature, humidify the air, raise ocean levels, do away with some animal/plant species, etc.

Zoo Hypotheisis
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoo_hypothesis

Surely, we would have had to have been influenced even as far back as the point of industrialisation, to provide the appearance that the causes of climate change are happening as a logical result of our development.
The momentum appears to be towards finding ways to reverse the effects of climate change, so I'm not convinced that even if we are being influenced, the purpose is necessarily malicious.

The zoo hypothesis is interesting, does seem at least plausible, may even tie in with von Däniken's ideas of advanced civilisations, extraterrestrial, or even advanced humans watching over us for thousands of years.

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

What if we’ve (Earth) already been conquered but just don’t know it?

I was hoping you wouldn't bring that up because I think we should keep it a secret.

The Secret Chiefs have been here for centuries in the Himalayas.

Just ask David Icke (footballer-turned-conspiracy-theorist).

Or you could ask Ed Mitchell since he was interiewed on Kerrang! Radio.

https://www.daily-lazy.com/2013/02/a...threat-is.html

Originally Posted by ox

I was hoping you wouldn't bring that up because I think we should keep it a secret.

The cat appears to be getting out of the bag, if not already out. One might readily dismiss Mitchell's comments as resulting from too much solar radiation during his Apollo moon walks. But he is not the only "high profile" individual who is making this claim. A number of people are coming out who might otherwise have stayed in the alien closet.

Avi Loeb is the Frank B. Baird Jr. Professor of Science at Harvard University, and founder of the "Black Hole Initiative", etc. No maniac here (probably), he is working with UFOers to help identify their presence on Earth (1). He is only one of many who are hot on the trail.

And the Secret Chiefs are apparently not so secret after all (2). It would seem that a number of cats are out of their bags. Everyone should be on the lookout for them. They are not what they seem. How to identify them is the trick. And this won't be easy since it is their trick at staying secret. So their presence, as expected, should be very difficult to prove!


"Paranormal activity - Why is Harvard University astrophysicist Avi Loeb working with ardent UFO believers?"

https://www.science.org/content/arti...with-ufo-buffs


"Secret Chiefs"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Chiefs

Would you rather have an alien invasion or human travellers from the future? At least if TT is human then you know we made it to a point when a time travel instrument/machine was developed with a good possibility there will be no alien invasions for awhile.

https://futurism.com/the-byte/astron...time-travelers

Originally Posted by Double Helix

The cat appears to be getting out of the bag, if not already out. One might readily dismiss Mitchell's comments as resulting from too much solar radiation during his Apollo moon walks.

I doubt that 'we' ever went on to the moon.
Humans have always been myth makers and it was a Cold War thing.
Mitchell and the rest may even have been hypnotised.

But he is not the only "high profile" individual who is making this claim. A number of people are coming out who might otherwise have stayed in the alien closet.
Avi Loeb is the Frank B. Baird Jr. Professor of Science at Harvard University, and founder of the "Black Hole Initiative", etc. No maniac here (probably), he is working with UFOers to help identify their presence on Earth (1). He is only one of many who are hot on the trail.

Was it a bird? Was it a plane? Was it a rock?
According to Loeb, if you were to show a caveman a phone he'd identify it as a rock.
We are now the caveman equivalent.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/the...shredded-world

And the Secret Chiefs are apparently not so secret after all. Everyone should be on the lookout for them. They are not what they seem. How to identify them is the trick. And this won't be easy since it is their trick at staying secret. So their presence, as expected, should be very difficult to prove!

Is that because they shapeshift?

The question is: why invade Earth?

Resources? There are more of those in outer space on lifeless worlds that can be had without a war.

Labor? An advanced species would probably have pretty good robots.

What would they get?

Maybe our biosphere has value.

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Wouldn’t be much sense invading Earth if aliens couldn’t match our weaponry or willingness to duke it out. People assume that if alien technology exists to travel interstellar that it automatically translates to superior weaponry and overwhelmingly armed forces. So could aliens take over the Earth without firing a shot? Sort of use their smarts to blend in and quietly accomplish their goal to acquire the planet. Could that be a possibility, without us suspecting a thing? We’re focused on the sky, meanwhile it’s really happening on the ground.

An invading space force can win a nuclear war. We have no way of imposing MADD on them, by hitting their homeworld in retaliation.

In fact, they don't even need to nuke. They could steer asteroids toward Earth that would hit with the same force of an A bomb, but none of the radiation and stuff.

Originally Posted by The Raven

The question is: why invade Earth?

Resources? There are more of those in outer space on lifeless worlds that can be had without a war.

Labor? An advanced species would probably have pretty good robots.

What would they get?

Maybe our biosphere has value.

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Wouldn’t be much sense invading Earth if aliens couldn’t match our weaponry or willingness to duke it out. People assume that if alien technology exists to travel interstellar that it automatically translates to superior weaponry and overwhelmingly armed forces. So could aliens take over the Earth without firing a shot? Sort of use their smarts to blend in and quietly accomplish their goal to acquire the planet. Could that be a possibility, without us suspecting a thing? We’re focused on the sky, meanwhile it’s really happening on the ground.

An invading space force can win a nuclear war. We have no way of imposing MADD on them, by hitting their homeworld in retaliation.

In fact, they don't even need to nuke. They could steer asteroids toward Earth that would hit with the same force of an A bomb, but none of the radiation and stuff.

Good points Raven. I want you on our side. Wonder how we could wave a white flag? Then again, why obliterate us when we have nothing much to offer? If we are the scum of the universe, and unless there’s someone worse, we may be an invading force worth worrying about some day.

If you want to travel many, many parsecs across intergalactic space in an ever expanding universe then how would you plot a course? Just follow the light of the galaxy you wish to go to? How would you know if it’s still there? Seems like the longer the trip the more you need to know.