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Thread: Terraforming Mars

  1. #1 Terraforming Mars 
    Forum Freshman Eldritch's Avatar
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    I hear the notion of terraforming Mars frequently. Wouldn't that not work, though, because Mars has next to no magnetic field, and any atmosphere we put there would get blown away?


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    Terraforming of Mars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    We better first get our own planet Earth in order because we are destroying it with pollution, greed and ignorance. Before we screw up other planets lets first have our own in good shape so we have a "home world" to come back to.
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    We better first get our own planet Earth in order because we are destroying it with pollution, greed and ignorance. Before we screw up other planets lets first have our own in good shape so we have a "home world" to come back to.
    then again if mars is lifeless might it not be that we may learn things by trying out experiments there rather than here on earth? to our, maybe, eventual benefit here?
    Sometimes it is better not knowing than having an answer that may be wrong.
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    We better first get our own planet Earth in order because we are destroying it with pollution, greed and ignorance. Before we screw up other planets lets first have our own in good shape so we have a "home world" to come back to.
    then again if mars is lifeless might it not be that we may learn things by trying out experiments there rather than here on earth? to our, maybe, eventual benefit?
    Sometimes it is better not knowing than having an answer that may be wrong.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispen Evan View Post
    We better first get our own planet Earth in order because we are destroying it with pollution, greed and ignorance. Before we screw up other planets lets first have our own in good shape so we have a "home world" to come back to.
    then again if mars is lifeless might it not be that we may learn things by trying out experiments there rather than here on earth? to our, maybe, eventual benefit?
    Experiments that need to be done on other planets to help Earth just do not make sense. If any experiments are needed then an orbiting space station can do them and that would cost allot less than a manned mission, base and resupplying a base on Mars. As I said if we don't take care of what we already have then we are bound to lose what we already know that can sustain life as we know it. I'd rather send robots to explore for humans until humans can take care of this planet first. Robots can also do experiments and are getting better at becoming self autonomous so will be able to much more when sent out into the cosmos.
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    you know, for having the name cosmictraveler, you always seem pretty against traveling the cosmos
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    There's more than one way to travel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    We better first get our own planet Earth in order because we are destroying it with pollution, greed and ignorance. Before we screw up other planets lets first have our own in good shape so we have a "home world" to come back to.
    TerraForm Earth First!
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  11. #10  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvb View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    We better first get our own planet Earth in order because we are destroying it with pollution, greed and ignorance. Before we screw up other planets lets first have our own in good shape so we have a "home world" to come back to.
    TerraForm Earth First!
    We don't need to terraform Earth, we need to help it with its massive problems that we humans are inflicting upon it everywhere. The Earth has ecosystems already established which gave rise to all life that we have here but humans are destroying the quality of life everyday.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mat5592 View Post
    you know, for having the name cosmictraveler, you always seem pretty against traveling the cosmos
    If you read the things I write about I'm always for space exploration using robotic spacecraft to do that exploring for humans UNTIL humans can first get their own planet back in shape from all the pollution, crime and ignorance that it has happening to it. I've always spoken to get faster speeds with spacecraft, better AI done so that robotic explorers can do the work for humans without harm coming to humans because humans really do not know what is out there in space including radiation which some types aren't even known about as yet. Until humans can find out more data about what lies in space I think it only reasonable that we don't use humans as guinea pigs to see what will happen to them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mvb View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    We better first get our own planet Earth in order because we are destroying it with pollution, greed and ignorance. Before we screw up other planets lets first have our own in good shape so we have a "home world" to come back to.
    TerraForm Earth First!
    We don't need to terraform Earth, we need to help it with its massive problems that we humans are inflicting upon it everywhere. The Earth has ecosystems already established which gave rise to all life that we have here but humans are destroying the quality of life everyday.
    That was my point. It doesn't make sense to talk about making another planet Earthlike instead of applying that scale of technology to fixing what we are doing to the original. Bring Earth back to health.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    That was my point. It doesn't make sense to talk about making another planet Earthlike instead of applying that scale of technology to fixing what we are doing to the original. Bring Earth back to health.
    I concur.
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    I think that a colonization program would be a good idea.
    Creating self-sufficient test colonies on earth would most likely help develop techniques to reduce the foot print of human activity (increasing sustainable development and recycling since its an essential parameter for a distant colony) and help the earth's ecosystems (and potential serve to test prototypes of alternate modes of organization, legacy organization being imo a root cause of most problems flailing humans quality of life).
    Even if humans are careful, its better to have colonies (and test colonies on earth) in case a extinction level event occurs, the odds are very slim but the consequences catastrophic.
    Its a good idea to use robots in an initial stage of colonization (to build the initial parts of the colony), but then it should be followed by humans and selected earth life imo.


    I have no ethical problems with terraforming mars, but efficiency objections, we would probably not acheive anything worth within home about with massive efforts and activity, where as a fraction of such effort could create colonies with biodomes containing forested parcs and tropical lagoons.
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    Why not Terraform all of the above?
    Start with Earth but also take what you learn and work on Venus and Mars, too. That's a lot of Real Estate going to waste...
    It doesn't need to be a 'one or the other' choice. Why not both?
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Why not Terraform all of the above?
    Start with Earth but also take what you learn and work on Venus and Mars, too. That's a lot of Real Estate going to waste...
    It doesn't need to be a 'one or the other' choice. Why not both?
    If humans cannot even get this planet in better shape what business do they have in going out and screwing up other planets? How do you terraform another planet when yours is dying because of what you've done to it?
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  18. #17  
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    It doesn't need to be a 'one or the other' choice. Why not both?
    I agree we can walk and chew gum at the same time. But, IMO, any "serious" terraforming attempt can only be made efficiently/optimally/reasonably "after" (or long after if we still think its useful) we have a colony on the moon and/or mars and have greater orbital-space infrastructure and capability. A mostly self sufficient colony able to produce/recycle/grow, in turn, can be achieve after/as/if we start to develop/test various technologies and methods in parallel before the post-prototype-draft results can be integrated in a cohesive program.

    Unlike various stage of a colonization program that require (prerequisite) existing space infrastructure and tech, the initial prototype test facility can be started NOW!
    Several such tests can be run in parallel, including test colonies that are not designed to simulate the exact conditions, which would be a second stage test, the initial stage would develop the generic basics of colony systems/methods.
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    but we are doing things here to try to stop the environmental damage. sure we have a long way to go. there is much more renewable energy. we recycle more. lots of industry are going green. cfc are no longer used. etc.

    can't you see that trying to have a self-sufficient colony on mars working towards "terraforming" it is a useful endeavour? not that i think terraforming mars is practical of course. far better to have habitats.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispen Evan View Post
    but we are doing things here to try to stop the environmental damage. sure we have a long way to go. there is much more renewable energy. we recycle more. lots of industry are going green. cfc are no longer used. etc.

    can't you see that trying to have a self-sufficient colony on mars working towards "terraforming" it is a useful endeavour? not that i think terraforming mars is practical of course. far better to have habitats.
    If you don't know what's bad for the Earth then how in the hell can you decide what's good for Mars? Every planet has its own unique environment to which only certain things can and will be able to terraform. Not knowing what plastics did to the Earths environment before they started producing plastic shows the ignorance of humans sometimes. Imagine starting to restructure another planet we know little about, what consequences will happen when you do the wrong things there?
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispen Evan View Post
    but we are doing things here to try to stop the environmental damage. sure we have a long way to go. there is much more renewable energy. we recycle more. lots of industry are going green. cfc are no longer used. etc.

    can't you see that trying to have a self-sufficient colony on mars working towards "terraforming" it is a useful endeavour? not that i think terraforming mars is practical of course. far better to have habitats.
    If you don't know what's bad for the Earth then how in the hell can you decide what's good for Mars? Every planet has its own unique environment to which only certain things can and will be able to terraform. Not knowing what plastics did to the Earths environment before they started producing plastic shows the ignorance of humans sometimes. Imagine starting to restructure another planet we know little about, what consequences will happen when you do the wrong things there?
    Insofar as we are aware, Mars is a dead planet. We have detected no ecosystems, and the planet's geochemical cycles are minimal as far as I know. Mars is, quite literally, little more than a big rock. There is not much that even the stupidity of humans today could do to it. Unless, of course, it were terraformed, and life introduced. It would take a significant amount of waste, far more than what we have now, to really be any problem to Mars. In short, Mars doesn't have much to mess up. Of course, we may well be wrong, but so far there just isn't the kind of delicate intricacy on Mars as there is on Earth.
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    If you don't know what's bad for the Earth then how in the hell can you decide what's good for Mars? Every planet has its own unique environment to which only certain things can and will be able to terraform.
    well you wouldn't only be experimenting with things that could be applicable on earth. isn't it better to experiment on a dead planet (presuming mars is dead for arguments sake) than a live one? i don't even know what sort of experiments you would run. anyway it is all rather moot as i doubt we will ever have the tech, or the will, to terraform a planet.
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    yet if we never try then we will never know. Sometimes you have to take a leap and if you fail so what you can always try again.
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    The uncertainties of methods for terraforming Mars are a miniscule problem compared to the costs. I am still convinced that it would be far better to work at rescuing the Earth instead. Anything that is learned in that effort can be applied to Venus or Mars later. We cannot possibly terraform another planet in time to avoid having to make a major effort cleaning up the Earth, and doing both simultaneously is simply beyond our resources.
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    Only problem with doing Earth is that if we screw up that's it...
    If we screw up doing Mars we can fudge it, since it won't kill us all off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Only problem with doing Earth is that if we screw up that's it...
    If we screw up doing Mars we can fudge it, since it won't kill us all off.
    We can screw it up fixing the Earth easily and quite certainly by doing nothing.
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    Procrastinating on both issues wont change anything it"ll just make the situation worse
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mat5592 View Post
    you know, for having the name cosmictraveler, you always seem pretty against traveling the cosmos
    If you read the things I write about I'm always for space exploration using robotic spacecraft to do that exploring for humans UNTIL humans can first get their own planet back in shape from all the pollution, crime and ignorance that it has happening to it. I've always spoken to get faster speeds with spacecraft, better AI done so that robotic explorers can do the work for humans without harm coming to humans because humans really do not know what is out there in space including radiation which some types aren't even known about as yet. Until humans can find out more data about what lies in space I think it only reasonable that we don't use humans as guinea pigs to see what will happen to them.
    Ready for launch!

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    I personally think it would be impossible to perform anything like a serious terraforming process on the Earth, since any action would be followed by the collective howls of endless hoards of ignorant bystanders, unfriendly governments, etc. You can't take a single step on Earth without someone fighting you, or suing you, or starting a war over the ideaology of what you're doing, or not doing. Mars would be a tabula rasa, an environment perfect for the process.

    There's was a pretty interesting simulation that recently popped up on Kickstarter. It's a first person simulation where you terraform mars. It looks pretty intricate. You have to use the pieces of your crashed space ship to make machines to give you heat and oxygen and water. You make an enclosure to survive on the surface then find the right kind of bacteria to thicken the atmosphere, get the ice caps to melt, make clouds and make rain, create heat, oxygen, etc. Somehow the simulation allows you to set off volcanos and create a magnetosphere. It might be speculative, but it looked pretty good.

    It was called 'Mars Terraformer' on Kickstart and Steam Greenlight. I'd post a link but I'd probably look like a bot.

    If any of you are old enough to remember the SimEarth Mars scenario. Think that -- but updated first person.
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