Notices
Results 1 to 21 of 21
Like Tree3Likes
  • 2 Post By MeteorWayne
  • 1 Post By pyoko

Thread: Hg wells time machine

  1. #1 Hg wells time machine 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    25
    Just been watching this film (the origional) for the umpteenth time and got the urge to say what i have thought for ages about the principles of HG Wells principle of time travel and it is this.
    the machine that George travels forward in time in does NOT merely "jump" from one time coordinate to another... it travels in a linear mode through time like we are doing now as we live our lives...its just that it travels faster through time than what we do..
    so isn't it logical to assume that the machine occupies ALL moments in time between now and wherever he is travelling to?
    SO. that means that the time machine will always be visible to the observer throughout its journey
    If George travels 100 years into the future in 3 minutes. then he will be visible in that spot for the next 100 years..although the observers will age 100 years..george will not
    If it takes George 3 minutes to travel that 100 years then he will only age 3 minutes whereas it will take the observer(s) 100 years to observe it taking generations in shifts to actually watch it happen


    Last edited by pipster; October 28th, 2011 at 04:39 AM. Reason: typo
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    16
    I think that the machine and the traveler are in some point of time for only a few nanoseconds. I do not know if you've seen the movie from 2002, but the journey that guy takes is just the best part of the movie. As he witnesses time, we as viewers can see flashes of what comes by. Like fashion changes in the storewindows. And I think that it would also be vice versa. Someone from a timemoment the traveler travels through would see a flash of the traveler, maybe that short he wouldn't even notice it.

    The real problem would come when a traveler "hits" someone, what would that do to the traveler?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Comet Dust Collector Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    2,848
    Actually the real problem is that if you take a 1 hour trip into the future or past, the earth will be 108.000 km away, and you will come back in the middle of empty space.
    msafwan and Markus Hanke like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    16
    Because of the Earths rotation, the planet moves but the traveler does not. So the sequence in the Time machine from 2003 is incorrect.

    His "landing" in the future might be correct, if he holds on to the exact years, and not using days. (But i cant remeber, it's to long ago.)

    Haha, never thought about that.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Comet Dust Collector Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    2,848
    It's not quite that simple. The earth's orbit does not exactly repeat. 360 degrees later (an actual year, not a calendar year) the earth is still not in exactly the same spot. Each orbit is slightly different. The eccentricity, inclination, argument of perihelion etc, all change with each orbit.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Professor pyoko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,094
    Not quite that simple? In fact, it's simpler. It is shown right here:

    http://www.alien-ufos.com/conspiracy...ml#post9827831

    Damn you, Round-Earthers and your "ideas"! Damn you!
    dmwyant likes this.
    It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,168
    You can get around the original problem by supposing that in order to travel through time faster we make jumps from one time to another. This would be equivalent to making a movie appear faster by removing all but every 100th frame, rather than by running it through the projection equipment at a faster rate. The time machine would then be in place for insufficient time to register on any sense.

    As to Wayne's objection we simply have to have the time machine tied to the reference frame of the Earth.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Masters Degree
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    740
    The original novel is well worth a read and unlike most of the repetitions of the time machine theme, written or cinematic since, it is still a great story despite the passage of time since being written.

    It's a rare author that gives consideration to such things as where is the time machine whilst travelling in time or whether it would naturally retain it's planet specific relative position. Too much attention to detail can kill the sense of wonder without adding much to a story's ability to suspend disbelief in the reader.

    Similarly with relative velocities when writing about matter transfer, whether by technology or as a biological capability, there are some practicalities few authors take the effort to incorporate into their stories. I recall Vernor Vinge's "The Witling" as a notable exception, dealing with the practicalities of teleportation when you retain your initial velocity and momentum and your destination has different relative motion. He also has an interesting take on time travel forward via stasis fields - no going back of course - in The Peace War and Marooned in Real Time. Vernor Vinge is one of my all time favorite SF author's, always interesting and original.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    25
    have recently read the original story by HG wells and must admit I dont think it should be called the "time machine" it should be called "diary of my adventure in the future" because 99% of th story is just about that there is very little time travel in it... and the ending is crap !
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Forum Freshman quasistatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Mumbai, India
    Posts
    50
    That was one interesting discussion. The book itself is one of my favourites. I think Wells fancied the romantic notions of Time Travel rather than the scientific considerations that govern time.
    Not only do we have to consider the rotation and revolution of the earth but the very movement of the whole solar system and the galaxy itself.
    Leaving that aside, George simply accelerated his own time frame using that cool steampunk machine of his in both directions of the time axis.
    But if were to give a scientific explanation to the way his machine worked, what would it be?
    "Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
    God said, 'Let Newton be!' and all was light."
    -A. Pope
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    25
    thanks everyone for responding to this post,,,it sat here for quite a while with no response but then it took off into quite an interesting discussion .. thanks for your input
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    25
    do you know that in the original [written] story... the time traveler does not have a name... the events of that night are recalled by a second person who is present on the night that "he" returns from the future and tells his tale...he is referred to only as "the time traveler"
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    25
    But if were to give a scientific explanation to the way his machine worked, what would it be?

    well I think that the revolving disc behind the chair generates a magnetic field that envelopes the machine and passenger... in the same pattern that the field envelopes a bar magnet (we all need to recall the iron filings demo from school science lessons).. This is possibly amplified to such a degree that the field acts like a very strong gravitational force and therefore bends time (as gravity does) but to such an extent as to cause total external refraction so that time is actually deflected off it and in doing so, leaves the area inside the field free of the influence of normal time..
    the faster it spins the more it deflects and this leaves the machine in a bubble that can literally accelerate in velocity within its own field but with no RELATIVITY to the percieved time of the time outside the field of the machine....
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Forum Senior pineapples's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ireland someplace
    Posts
    360
    Quote Originally Posted by pipster View Post
    But if were to give a scientific explanation to the way his machine worked, what would it be?

    well I think that the revolving disc behind the chair generates a magnetic field that envelopes the machine and passenger... in the same pattern that the field envelopes a bar magnet (we all need to recall the iron filings demo from school science lessons).. This is possibly amplified to such a degree that the field acts like a very strong gravitational force and therefore bends time (as gravity does) but to such an extent as to cause total external refraction so that time is actually deflected off it and in doing so, leaves the area inside the field free of the influence of normal time..
    the faster it spins the more it deflects and this leaves the machine in a bubble that can literally accelerate in velocity within its own field but with no RELATIVITY to the percieved time of the time outside the field of the machine....
    Hmm, well if he’s sealed in a magnetic bubble of some kind then a possible oversight could be that he’s going to suffocate fast. Not sure if they had oxygen canisters in those days but then they didn’t have time machine either. Well maybe eventually the past will sometime in the future
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    25
    hmmm I'm pretty sure oxygen can pass through magnetic fields !
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Forum Freshman quasistatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Mumbai, India
    Posts
    50
    Now that's another query!
    if SUCH a powerful magnetic can bend space-time, or cause a rip in the space time fabric, then can it sustain air or will it cause the generation of vacuum?
    An interesting point, as an object approaches the speed of light, its mass tends to infinity, which could probably exert the said high gravitational force causing space-time continuum to bend/break. Just saying!
    "Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
    God said, 'Let Newton be!' and all was light."
    -A. Pope
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    25
    to be honest I don't know I'm just chucking ideas around..! there's no answer to this ....so no point being pedantic....but you got to admit..it's fun and it makes you think doesn't it?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    59
    Could Hg Wells have been a real time traveller? That would explain his stories.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19  
    Forum Freshman quasistatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Mumbai, India
    Posts
    50
    Quote Originally Posted by TimeLord View Post
    Could Hg Wells have been a real time traveller? That would explain his stories.
    That way mot of history's greatest visionaries could be time travelers. Leonardo Da Vinci! Galileo!
    "Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
    God said, 'Let Newton be!' and all was light."
    -A. Pope
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20  
    Forum Senior pineapples's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ireland someplace
    Posts
    360
    We should probably not overlook the potential problem of going back in time on the same spot where the Time Traveller had just gone forward in time. Both time machines will cross each otherís path at one point in time. So whatís to happen to the Time Traveller then? Would the fusion of his past and future matter create a bang like a nuclear reaction or will his ears just go pop?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #21  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    5
    I read the original novel, it is still a great story despite the passage of time since being written. I think i should watch movie too.
    Solar Panels Australia
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. Time Machine
    By polevikov in forum Pseudoscience
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: April 12th, 2012, 01:47 AM
  2. Time machine
    By tesla in forum Physics
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: September 11th, 2008, 04:13 PM
  3. Time machine ?
    By Motivation in forum Philosophy
    Replies: 57
    Last Post: July 26th, 2008, 07:24 PM
  4. Time Machine?
    By Pritish Kamat in forum Pseudoscience
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: July 14th, 2007, 11:48 PM
  5. Construction of time machine.
    By sramanujam in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: September 23rd, 2006, 12:20 AM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •