Notices
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 100 of 115
Like Tree14Likes

Thread: Star Wars vs. Star Trek

  1. #1 Star Wars vs. Star Trek 
    Forum Freshman Jubei Yagyu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    12
    Gonna get a lot of arguments for this one...hehe...

    Who would win in a battle between the Enterprise E and a Star Destroyer?

    Now that you mention it, exactly how large are they compared to each other?


    "All truth passes through three stages: First it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
    -Schopenhauer
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Bachelors Degree
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    405
    Did you notice in Attack of the Clones, Yoda calls on the cloned troops to concentrate all their fire on "the leading Federation Starship!"


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Freshman Jubei Yagyu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    12
    Hehe...an easter egg, maybe?
    "All truth passes through three stages: First it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
    -Schopenhauer
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Forum Freshman Swaroop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    currently India
    Posts
    26
    both will destroy each otehr !!!
    bgi likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Freshman cs-comm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    42
    This is certainly a hot topic among fans. Star Wars wins by the way. Millions of ships and moon sized Death Stars? The United Federation of Planets wouldn't have a chance. As for the Enterprise-E vs. a star destroyer, it would have to be the Enterprise-E vs. Slave 1 (Boba/Jango Fett's ship) for the Enterprise to have a fighting chance.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Freshman Swaroop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    currently India
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by cs-comm
    As for the Enterprise-E vs. a star destroyer, it would have to be the Enterprise-E vs. Slave 1 (Boba/Jango Fett's ship) for the Enterprise to have a fighting chance.

    that was cool!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    enterprise would win obvisly
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    2,697
    Shields vs no shields, hmm. Easy call.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    shields can be less effient in protecting than a really strong armor
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Forum Professor wallaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,521
    yea i mean the galactica took a nuke to the hull and still stood.

    but i think they would have appreciated sheilds.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    87
    I think Star Wars.. I mean... Start Trek is more Diplomacy (I haven't even watch the show)... Star Wars was JEDIS
    If there was no religion in which Gods would be the main issue, war would now be a fight agaist the best scientific theory.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Forum Freshman Captain_Anubis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    58
    With the whole Star Destroyer vs. Enterprise I'd have to go with the enterprise. The Star Destroyer may have the bigger... everything but it definitely has some MAJOR weak points... like when the one X-wing crashes into the cockpit area and takes it down just like that.. I'm sure the enterprise could get one fast torpedoe in there pretty fast for the win...
    bgi likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    87
    Yeah... but then we got Darth Vader and his Space ship... he can destroy the emterprise
    If there was no religion in which Gods would be the main issue, war would now be a fight agaist the best scientific theory.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Forum Freshman Scifinerd43's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    24
    I think both suck and should all die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/color]
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    wow
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    school
    Posts
    13
    c3p0 and ar2d2 would enialate the enterprise, utilising their laser guns and lightsabers
    science
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    Forum Freshman Scifinerd43's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    24
    They would not, they dont have any weapons and can not handle a lightsabor
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    38
    i know
    kill those eergy pods that power sheilds
    the kill the engines haha.... but may have to use kamikaze??? lol
    if the fuel is so potent such as to move these big things so fast
    why not explode it all @ once
    bgi likes this.
    no time for lots of things
    must save time
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19  
    Forum Sophomore
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    gardengrove California
    Posts
    139
    haha well star destroyer is like a carrier in starcraft lol so it will swarm enterprise haha
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20  
    Forum Professor
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,893
    Quote Originally Posted by (In)Sanity
    Shields vs no shields, hmm. Easy call.
    Have you actually watched any starwars movies? They were shown to have shields in every single movie!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #21  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,148
    My opinion:

    The star destroyer appears to be much larger and armored, it does have shields which tiny fighter weapons appear to be able to penetrate. It seams to possess a vast array of small to medium weapons that appear to have a short range, poor acuracy and many of which are good against smaller vessels. The star destroyer appears to be less manouverable than the enterprise.

    The enterprise appears to have better shields able to withstand heavy capital ship weapons and still hold (as Picard drinks his tea with the pinky finger raised/ or Spock raises a brow and says 'fascinating'). The enterprise appears to have fewer but accurate heavy beam weapons (phasers) in addition to capital ship torpedo weapons.

    In a battle I imagine the enterprise could in the hands of a competent captain, outmanouver the stardestroyer to attack from the rear where most of the stardestroyers weapons array are unable to reach, and fire a few torpedos in the large engine exhaust to kill the Star Destroyer.

    In addition, the Enterprise can shoot a spread of photon torpedos at the star destroyer and use the transporter to beam a nuke on the bridge of the Star Destroyer.

    Finally, time is on the side of the Enterprise, for unless the bulky star destroyer can ram the enterprise or somehow destroy it before 45 minutes pass, the enterprise crew will discover, design and create a revolutionary and new technology that will destroy the Star Destoyer by the end of the show.
    danhanegan and jarhead42 like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  23. #22  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    We all know that the Borg would assimilate the entire SW universe if they got there. And species 8472 would destroy that planet destroyer.
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  24. #23  
    Forum Professor wallaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,521
    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo
    My opinion:

    The star destroyer appears to be much larger and armored, it does have shields which tiny fighter weapons appear to be able to penetrate. It seams to possess a vast array of small to medium weapons that appear to have a short range, poor acuracy and many of which are good against smaller vessels. The star destroyer appears to be less manouverable than the enterprise.

    The enterprise appears to have better shields able to withstand heavy capital ship weapons and still hold (as Picard drinks his tea with the pinky finger raised/ or Spock raises a brow and says 'fascinating'). The enterprise appears to have fewer but accurate heavy beam weapons (phasers) in addition to capital ship torpedo weapons.

    In a battle I imagine the enterprise could in the hands of a competent captain, outmanouver the stardestroyer to attack from the rear where most of the stardestroyers weapons array are unable to reach, and fire a few torpedos in the large engine exhaust to kill the Star Destroyer.

    In addition, the Enterprise can shoot a spread of photon torpedos at the star destroyer and use the transporter to beam a nuke on the bridge of the Star Destroyer.

    Finally, time is on the side of the Enterprise, for unless the bulky star destroyer can ram the enterprise or somehow destroy it before 45 minutes pass, the enterprise crew will discover, design and create a revolutionary and new technology that will destroy the Star Destoyer by the end of the show.
    of course a standard star destroyer has tie fighters, tie bombers etc.
    i don't fancy the chances of any of the star trek crew beaming onto the bridge only to find darth vader staring them in the face. or stormtroopers.

    however having played star wars battlefront 2 it is common for one simple clone marine to land a drop ship on deck and start blowing up the ship bit by bit.

    but maybe i'm looking into this too much.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  25. #24  
    Forum Sophomore
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    gardengrove California
    Posts
    139
    haha enterprise is small and fast but it wont last with the star destroyer canon and swarm of clones lol
    Reply With Quote  
     

  26. #25  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,148
    however having played star wars battlefront 2 it is common for one simple clone marine to land a drop ship on deck and start blowing up the ship bit by bit.
    I admit that a federation ship's fruity crew is very wimpy.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  27. #26  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    We are the borg. Existens as you know it is over. Resistens is futile

    We wish to negotiate

    Negotiation is irrelevant. You wiill lower your shields and be assimilated. Resistence is futile
    jarhead42 likes this.
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  28. #27  
    Forum Professor wallaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,521
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    We are the borg. Existens as you know it is over. Resistens is futile

    We wish to negotiate

    Negotiation is irrelevant. You wiill lower your shields and be assimilated. Resistence is futile
    at which point the death star takes aim.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  29. #28  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    500 borg cubes comes out of transwarp scan it adept and makes the death stars ray useless against all other cubes exept the one that were destroyed
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  30. #29  
    Forum Sophomore
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    gardengrove California
    Posts
    139
    all hail to death star :-D
    Reply With Quote  
     

  31. #30  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    death star is dead, borg destroyed it.

    Its biological and technological distinctivness will be added to our own
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  32. #31  
    Forum Professor wallaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,521
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    death star is dead, borg destroyed it.

    Its biological and technological distinctivness will be added to our own
    ok then, starwars and star trek combine forces to destroy the borg once and for all.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  33. #32  
    Forum Sophomore
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    gardengrove California
    Posts
    139
    lol thatll be cool =P
    Reply With Quote  
     

  34. #33  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    stop the 2 greatest threats joined toghater? hahahaha

    The borg is unstoppable. They will assimilate species after species until the entire universe is conquered, once thats done they will begin conquering other universes.

    Everyones biological and technological distinctivness will be added to their own

    Code:
    Scan Complete
    
    Species: 4812 Humans
    Advantages: Creative technological development
    Disadvantages: Emotions, Ilogical, insuffient, none-war race
    Treat: Insignifican
    Action: Assimilation
    Resistence: Total destruction
    
    Mission Target Accuired
    jarhead42 likes this.
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  35. #34  
    Forum Professor wallaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,521
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    stop the 2 greatest threats joined toghater? hahahaha

    The borg is unstoppable. They will assimilate species after species until the entire universe is conquered, once thats done they will begin conquering other universes.

    Everyones biological and technological distinctivness will be added to their own

    Code:
    Scan Complete
    
    Species: 4812 Humans
    Advantages: Creative technological development
    Disadvantages: Emotions, Ilogical, insuffient, none-war race
    Treat: Insignifican
    Action: Assimilation
    Resistence: Total destruction
    
    Mission Target Accuired
    ohh wow they have finally come to a desicion have they.
    bout bloody time.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  36. #35  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    hehe.
    this decision were taking a long time ago
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  37. #36  
    Forum Bachelors Degree
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    405
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    stop the 2 greatest threats joined toghater? hahahaha

    The borg is unstoppable. They will assimilate species after species until the entire universe is conquered, once thats done they will begin conquering other universes.
    You weren't a fan of Voyager, then? :P Knocking the "unstoppable" Borg around became almost routine on that show!
    "It is comparatively easy to make clever guesses; indeed there are theorems, like 'Goldbach's Theorem' which have never been proved and which any fool could have guessed." G.H. Hardy, Fourier Series, 1943
    Reply With Quote  
     

  38. #37  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    im fan of voyager, i loved it. but it wasent fair, they used future technology, but borg survived, a few problems but there is allways survivers, when there is borgs able to withstand the assimilation partly there is damn some who survived
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  39. #38  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    sorry doulbe posting

    The borg are like a bacteria and a virus, you can destroy them as many times as you want, they allways comes back adepted.

    But honestly, i wonder how you would have to do to make a planet explode like species 8472 did
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  40. #39  
    Forum Professor
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,893
    The Empire is clearly ahead in several areas. The SW ships can travel across the galaxy in only a few days, something that would take federation ships decades. If the empire went to war with the federation they could probably win without even having to really fight - just move in to attack a planet, wait for the federation to amass their fleet to fight them, then zip off to another (unguarded) planet and blast/invade/whatever it. By the time the slow-moving federation ships arrive, it will all be over - and the star destroyers will be on to the next planet.

    The death star's cannon is a weapon that far surpasses anything ever seen in the Federation in terms of destructive energy, and indicates that the Empire's weapon and power systems are far, far superior. If you do the math on the energy needed to actually blow up a planet it works out to be pretty horrifying.

    There is no reason to believe that species 8472 will even fight – they’re a race of cowards (that live in another dimension!) who only attack if someone finds a way to enter their “fluidic subspace” realm and attacks them first.

    There is no reason to believe that the borg will be able to adapt to SW weapons simply because they were able to adapt to Federation weapons – you can’t compare the death star’s cannon to a couple of photon torpedoes.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  41. #40  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    The Empire is clearly ahead in several areas. The SW ships can travel across the galaxy in only a few days, something that would take federation ships decades. If the empire went to war with the federation they could probably win without even having to really fight - just move in to attack a planet, wait for the federation to amass their fleet to fight them, then zip off to another (unguarded) planet and blast/invade/whatever it. By the time the slow-moving federation ships arrive, it will all be over - and the star destroyers will be on to the next planet.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Borg
    We are the borg. You will be assimilated resistence is futile
    The death star's cannon is a weapon that far surpasses anything ever seen in the Federation in terms of destructive energy, and indicates that the Empire's weapon and power systems are far, far superior. If you do the math on the energy needed to actually blow up a planet it works out to be pretty horrifying.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Borg
    Our survival is your survival. We need the nano probes to defeat species 8472
    There is no reason to believe that species 8472 will even fight – they’re a race of cowards (that live in another dimension!) who only attack if someone finds a way to enter their “fluidic subspace” realm and attacks them first.
    My enemys enemy is my friend
    There is no reason to believe that the borg will be able to adapt to SW weapons simply because they were able to adapt to Federation weapons – you can’t compare the death star’s cannon to a couple of photon torpedoes.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Borg
    We will adept. Resistence is futile.
    They have shield technolgy and transwarp engines far superior to the empie. One blast and borg ships will scan the energy fequens and adept.
    jarhead42 likes this.
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  42. #41  
    Guest
    I think staw wars is much more efficient cos they have 'light savers' - at least that's what my hearing aid seems to be saying.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  43. #42  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    Light sabers
    Ineffient
    Shortrange
    Threat: minimal
    Conclution: Inferior
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  44. #43  
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    Light sabers
    Ineffient
    Shortrange
    Threat: minimal
    Conclution: Inferior
    Zelos:

    Type: ______Theoretical carbon unit.
    Model:______Indeterminate
    Sex:________not applicable.
    Comms:_____Spurious - Binary Coded ASCII
    Weaponry:___Audio chasm only.
    Threat:______Minus Alpha two zero.
    Special:____ _Reacts violently with all known facts.
    Treatment:___In event of contact watch thoroughly with a couple of soap operas.

    And now Ophiolite appears to have returned (welcome) we can all behave ourselves again!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  45. #44  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    Billco:
    Type: CarboOrganism
    Species: 4586 Human
    Age: Ancient
    Cerebral capacity: Minimal
    Cerebral processing: Minimal
    Threat: None
    Conclution: Irrelevant organism
    Action: Disposal
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  46. #45  
    Forum Professor wallaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,521
    ohh please do me next...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  47. #46  
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by wallaby
    ohh please do me next...

    Special Instructions: Avoid contact with rays....
    Reply With Quote  
     

  48. #47  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    Desegnation: wallaby
    Type: CarboOrganism
    Species: 4586 Human
    Age: Scan Incomplete
    Cerebral capacity: Medium
    Cerebral processing: High
    Threat: Minimal
    Conclution: Potensial drone
    Action: Assimilation
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  49. #48  
    Forum Professor wallaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,521
    rays what rays?

    woo hoo into the collective i go...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  50. #49  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    We are one

    I am the one who is many. I bring order to chaos
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  51. #50  
    Forum Professor wallaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,521
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    We are one

    I am the one who is many. I bring order to chaos
    was that me or you that said that? i can't remember
    Reply With Quote  
     

  52. #51  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    ME
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  53. #52  
    Forum Professor wallaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,521
    are you sure, it might have been me.

    hmm what is this me i keep speaking of?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  54. #53  
    Forum Professor
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,893
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    They have shield technolgy and transwarp engines far superior to the empie.
    Are you kidding? SW hyperdrive engines can travel across the galaxy in a few days, making them easily as fast as the borg transwarp engines - but the borg can only use their transwarp engines to travel around their "transwarp network," and can't use transwarp to travel to new places until they build a network there. Outside their network, they don't appear any faster than normal federation ships. The Empire, meanwhile, can fly anywhere it wants.
    One blast and borg ships will scan the energy fequens and adept.
    The borg can't adapt to everything. In Voyager they showed species 8472 carving up borg ships with some kind of orange energy beam that the borg apparently couldn't adapt to. They didn't seem to be able to adapt to the transphasic torpedoes that the federation developed. There is little reason to believe that the borg could adapt to the vastly more advanced weapons of the empire simply because they were able to adapt to federation weapons - especially since we have proof that the borg can't adapt to everything.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  55. #54  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    Are you kidding? SW hyperdrive engines can travel across the galaxy in a few days, making them easily as fast as the borg transwarp engines
    transwarp conduits can take you from one side to another in matter of minutes

    but the borg can only use their transwarp engines to travel around their "transwarp network," and can't use transwarp to travel to new places until they build a network there
    borg can use transwarp drive without the network but it isnt as fast. at those speeds we talk about your hyperdrive

    Outside their network, they don't appear any faster than normal federation ships. The Empire, meanwhile, can fly anywhere it wants.
    outside they are still faster than federation ships. There is also quantumslipstream that borg have yet to assimilated

    The borg can't adapt to everything. In Voyager they showed species 8472 carving up borg ships with some kind of orange energy beam that the borg apparently couldn't adapt to.
    its becuase their genetic structure were able to destroy anything that came in their body that didnt belong there. biological, technological, or chemical. But the empire dont posses this kind of technology

    They didn't seem to be able to adapt to the transphasic torpedoes that the federation developed.
    it came from th future, of course they couldnt. its like taking a future weapon back today and see if any country comes up with defenses against it. bet no one will for sometime.

    There is little reason to believe that the borg could adapt to the vastly more advanced weapons of the empire simply because they were able to adapt to federation weapons - especially since we have proof that the borg can't adapt to everything.
    the empire isnt technologicaly advanced enough. The empire have technology yes, but cant be so powerfull if its defeated by a handfull of jedi jackasses (i havent seen the all the movies so i assume in the last they were beaten like all bad guys) while borg were defeated by future technoly wich wasent fair. wich also is temporaly impossible.
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  56. #55  
    Forum Professor
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,893
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    transwarp conduits can take you from one side to another in matter of minutes
    What is your source for this? It's certainly possible that they said this in an episode that I missed, but I don't recall them ever claiming it to be this fast.
    borg can use transwarp drive without the network but it isnt as fast. at those speeds we talk about your hyperdrive
    Again, what is your source for this? Because in all the episodes/movies where the borg attacked earth, the federation saw them coming and had plenty of time to organize large fleets to fight them. The borg didn't just zip from the edge of federation space to earth in a matter of minutes.
    its becuase their genetic structure were able to destroy anything that came in their body that didnt belong there. biological, technological, or chemical. But the empire dont posses this kind of technology
    But the borg also weren't able to adapt to 8472's beam weapons, even though they were hit by them over and over again. So clearly it's wrong to assume that the borg can adapt to any weapon.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  57. #56  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    What is your source for this? It's certainly possible that they said this in an episode that I missed, but I don't recall them ever claiming it to be this fast.
    Star trek voyager last episodes. the TWC takes them from delta quadrant to aplha quadrant close to earth in matter of minutes

    Again, what is your source for this? Because in all the episodes/movies where the borg attacked earth, the federation saw them coming and had plenty of time to organize large fleets to fight them. The borg didn't just zip from the edge of federation space to earth in a matter of minutes.
    STV 515/516

    A transwarp signature is shown some time before they acctualy exit but its not like hours

    But the borg also weren't able to adapt to 8472's beam weapons, even though they were hit by them over and over again. So clearly it's wrong to assume that the borg can adapt to any weapon.
    the more advanced a weapon is the harder is it to adapt. logicly. since species 8472 have a highly advanced biotechnology it is logicly harder for the borg to adapt. and in those attacks it wasent suffient for them to be able to adapt
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  58. #57 Could the Borg conquer the Empire. 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    25
    Could the Borg conque the Empire.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  59. #58  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    the empires technology isnt advanced enough to pose such a great threat as species 8472 did. The empire may posses a planetary destroyer but borg posses temporal technology and could quikly accuire more advanced temporal technology quite fast.
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  60. #59  
    Forum Sophomore
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    gardengrove California
    Posts
    139
    hmmm how can we destroy the borg?? super cyber virus? o.O
    Reply With Quote  
     

  61. #60  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    Destruction is irrelevant
    Destruction is futile
    We are perfect

    If one borg survives all borg does
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  62. #61  
    Forum Sophomore
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    gardengrove California
    Posts
    139
    but wat if one borg dies ALL DIES
    Reply With Quote  
     

  63. #62  
    Forum Professor wallaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,521
    we are one, but we are many...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  64. #63  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    we are one. We are many
    Even we possess differenses that will make atleast one survive
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  65. #64  
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    we are one. We are many
    Even we possess differenses that will make atleast one survive

    Yawn BOR(g)ING!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  66. #65  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    old man
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  67. #66  
    Forum Sophomore
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    gardengrove California
    Posts
    139
    lol -_-"
    Reply With Quote  
     

  68. #67  
    Forum Freshman spirytus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    44
    One word: Transporters.

    The only known way to stop a transporter beam is shields. The only ship I recall actually using shield in Starwars is the Deathstar v2 during its construction; the ground based shield emitter.


    Starwars:

    - Planet-destroyer
    - Hyperdrive
    - And of course the far superior troops.
    - Jedi mind control.

    Enterprise could easily take on a deathstar provided the shield station is down (or that lumbering piece of interstellar turd is on the move). The following text has been shamelessly ripped from the starfleet field manual:
    HOW-TO Destroy your very own deathstar
    ===============================

    1.) Aquire 1 ~ 2 standard issue photon torpedoes (Warheads will do).
    2.) Aquire 1 ~ 2 standard spring loaded oven timers.
    3.) Wire the oven timers into the detonator circuitry.
    4.) Move the ship within transporter range of ze deathstar.
    5.) Set the oven timers to 2 min (Quick bake).
    6.) Transport the two armed torpedoes into the core of the deathstar.
    7.) Prepare one cup of earl grey in the replicator.
    7b.) <Instert your favorate Arnold one-liner here>
    8.) Enjoy the fireworks.
    Jedi or the clones? Beam them into space for all I care.

    Hyperdrive? say hello to my tractor beam.

    Mind control? James T. Kirk for the win.

    jarhead42 likes this.
    There are 10 types of people; those who understand binary, and those who don't.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  69. #68  
    Guest
    A jedi could use the force to turn the beam (transporter or otherwise) on the ship. Also escape detection...and star wars can slice and dice an entire enterprise crew with a single jedi and lightsaber...

    :P
    Reply With Quote  
     

  70. #69  
    Forum Freshman spirytus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    44
    Neh,

    A powerful Jedi can manipulate matter only on a limited basis. IE: Large pipes and falling concrete blocks. Yoda lifted an Xwing once - so what? There is definite limits (and more importantly range) to this power.

    I've yet to see a jedi manipulate energy based weapons or beams (as is the transporter beam) strictly by using "The Force". They're bound by the same physics. Meaning; if you're the jedi, and I'm the captain, you'd be breathing vacuum long before you'd lift a finger against me...


    Now... If the starfleet captain is foolish enough to allow a jedi (or sith) to penetrate inside the ship and more importantly allow him to take out the transporters, than yep, game over - I'll give you that. Even a horde of drunk klingons can't stop the woopass that will be forthcoming...

    But how do you sopose they'll do that? undetected? Through solid energy shield?

    I don't think it can be done.
    There are 10 types of people; those who understand binary, and those who don't.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  71. #70  
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by spirytus
    Neh,

    A powerful Jedi can manipulate matter only on a limited basis. IE: Large pipes and falling concrete blocks. Yoda lifted an Xwing once - so what? There is definite limits (and more importantly range) to this power.
    In the books, Luke Skywalker could manipulate anything from atoms to black holes. 8)

    I've yet to see a jedi manipulate energy based weapons or beams (as is the transporter beam) strictly by using "The Force".
    Darth vader showed a perfect example of absorbing energy when he did so to Han's blaster pistol.

    But how do you sopose they'll do that? undetected? Through solid energy shield?

    I don't think it can be done.
    A jedi can hide his appearance, and plus a lightsaber can cut through almost anything. I have my doubts that it wouldn't be able to melt through a shield. Plus, if worst comes to worst, he could just use the force to rip out pieces of the hull.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  72. #71  
    Forum Sophomore
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    gardengrove California
    Posts
    139
    .. wat ever they say borg will win =D anywey wheres zelos these days?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  73. #72  
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by iLOVEscience
    .. wat ever they say borg will win =D anywey wheres zelos these days?
    I've wanted to ask that too.

    Borg weakness: The borg *CAN'T* adapt to physical weapons like the klingon battle..whatever it is.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  74. #73  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    967
    I think he tried to adapt to physical damage :wink:
    Poor guy.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  75. #74  
    Forum Professor
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,893
    Quote Originally Posted by spirytus
    One word: Transporters.

    The only known way to stop a transporter beam is shields. The only ship I recall actually using shield in Starwars is the Deathstar v2 during its construction; the ground based shield emitter.
    You seriously need to watch the SW movies again. Even the X-wings has shields - and everything larger than an x-wing certainly had shields. The only things that were unshielded were some types of small fighters, and even a lot of the fighters had shields.

    Hyperdrive? say hello to my tractor beam.
    The hyperdrive alone would be enough to give the Empire a huge advantage. With a hyperdrive you can cross the entire galaxy in a few days, a feat that would take the Federation decades with warp drive. The empire could simply assemble a large fleet near a Federation planet, wait for the Federation to assemble their own fleet to defend the plant, and then zip off to some other plant. They would arrive at the new target in a matter of minutes/hours, and the Federation ships wouldn't get there for days. With the sort of speed advantage it would be impossible to offer any sort of concerted resistance. If you assemble a fleet somewhere, the Empire can simply strike somewhere else before you are able to arrive. Or you could spread your fleet thinly across the entire Federation, with only a few ships to offer a token resistance at each planet - and then you get to see how well one or two ships does against the entire Imperial armada. And yes, the Empire has tractor beams of its own.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  76. #75  
    Forum Ph.D. Nevyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    881
    you are forgetting this is "in a galaxy far, far away"
    Come see some of my art work at http://nevyn-pendragon.deviantart.com/
    Reply With Quote  
     

  77. #76  
    Guest
    Reply With Quote  
     

  78. #77  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    967
    Try sandwich and butter.

    Or corn and butter.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  79. #78  
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by LeavingQuietly
    Try sandwich and butter.

    Or corn and butter.
    Have we drifted into hemarhoid treatments here?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  80. #79  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    967
    Can it ever become draw without being the same word?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  81. #80  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    30
    The people on star wars are all stupid pirates. They are 3rd world compared to TNG. Have you have never seen someone REROUTE AUXILIARY POWER TO THE MAIN FOWARD DEFLECTOR COIL while at the same time REPROGRAM THE TACYON EMITTERS FOR A METAPHASIC SHIFT IMPULSE. Anyway I think my point is that you can really tweak those ships out

    As far as the borg go, all Picard ever had to do is ask Q a favor (or that guy that killed the.. Nahusnuk I think.. with just a thought... The crew of the Enterprize saved the universe more than a few times. What did Luke Skywalker ever do ?

    Has anyone else here ever said "Computer, End Program" when they had a bad moment?
    jarhead42 likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  82. #81  
    Guest
    I guess it all depends on what generation you grew up with, that'll be the one you support, to trek fans SW is ridiculous, To wars fans trek is out dated. personally I think Buck Rogers (and his girls) would demolish all of them!. And for my Money, Barbarella reigns supreme forever!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  83. #82  
    Forum Freshman e_atom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    27
    Being the Star Wars biased fanboy I am, STAR WARS ALL THE WAY!!!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  84. #83  
    Forum Freshman youdiehard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    16
    There's no such thing as mediclorians but I can sense by the use of the real force that governed the Universe- the "s-force" that you guys are from Southeast Asia.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  85. #84  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    91
    Andromeda FTW. Starwars are nice but I never liked them that much and Star Trek is just outdated.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  86. #85  
    Forum Professor Obviously's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,416
    Here's a funny video on the matter of Star Wars vs. Star Trek:

    Star Wars vs. Star Trek

    I vote for Star Wars btw
    Reply With Quote  
     

  87. #86  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    967
    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    Here's a funny video on the matter of Star Wars vs. Star Trek:

    Star Wars vs. Star Trek

    I vote for Star Wars btw
    Yes, and my responce for that is that it was an awesome movie. Might very well be that the voyager would pawn the death star, with the right leverage and the right application of strength. But I wouldn't really know.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  88. #87 star trek 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    36
    definitely star trek because it is all about knowing your universe
    Reply With Quote  
     

  89. #88  
    Forum Bachelors Degree Demen Tolden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
    Posts
    475
    Man, reading the posts in this topic was very entertaining. I was laughing so hard some times.

    Here my own version of the encounter.

    "This is Jaun Luke Piccard of the Star Trek Enterprise, please respond."

    (Emperor on screen)
    "Hello captain. To what do I owe this pleasure?"

    "We understand that you are responsible for the death and oppression of nearly an entire galaxy, and wish to see an end to this bloodshed. These are people, and they deserve to live their lives in peace and freedom, and to the government of themselves if they so see fit. How will you respond?"

    "Very persuasive words captain. I agree. I will send a delegate to your ship to represent me so that we may work together an arrangement that best suits us both."

    Of course the crew of the Enterprise having no knowledge of the force could not be prepared when an actual Sith is sent on their ship, and the ONLY thing that can stop a sith is a jedi. You might remember at the end of the Return of the Jedi when Emperor Palpatine is thrown into space or where ever he went, but that was only one of the many times he "died." Even the jedi's at the strongest could not erradicate the dark side of the force, and Freedom Nad was still furthering the power of the Sith thousands of years after his entombment.

    I think also one of the contrasts about how the stories are done is that Star Trek has mostly been an exploration of the human condition while Star Wars has been an exploration of the transendent. It is more natural for Star Trek to contain "weaknesses" and "flaws of character" because it is more about being human. Star Wars, because it has so much involvement about the transendent, has less flaws, and even contains things that have spiritual and godlike powers.

    This from wookieepediea:
    It has been calculated that blowing up an Earth-sized planet takes on the order of 10^32 joules of energy; this is roughly the total output of the Earth's sun in a week. More detailed estimates place the violent destruction of Alderaan as requiring 10^38 joules of energy, or roughly one million times that necessary to permanently break apart the planet.

    The prototype Death Star destroyed the moon of the planet Kessel. While there was little detailed information about this event, it would have required around 10^29 joules, assuming similar size and composition to Earth's moon.
    The most important thing I have learned about the internet is that it needs lot more kindness and patience.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  90. #89  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Nashville
    Posts
    317
    I enjoyed Star Wars but never cared for Star Trek although I do like the film Forbidden Planet after which Star Trek was patterned.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  91. #90  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5
    The enterprise would win, since the star destroyer generally uses laser weapons, which are already established and generally having no affect on the enterprises shields.
    jarhead42 likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  92. #91  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    We are the borg-You will be assimilated. We will add your biological and technological dist----oooohh! A lightsaber! I want one of those!
    jarhead42 likes this.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  93. #92  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  94. #93  
    Forum Freshman wolwerine94's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    24
    Just two words is enough to Star Trek get blow by himself! That two words is : Star Wars! Yoda, Luke,Obi-Wan,Mace Windu, Anakin/Darth Wader (same thing), Han Solo, and his hairy friend, and any ship from star wars will make star trek go from universe! MAY FORCE BE WITH US ALL!!!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  95. #94  
    Forum Sophomore Skiyk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    176
    Star Wars would send their whole bloody army against the one ship. About 50 red-shirts would die and Kirk would somehow blow up the attack force.
    A biophysicist talks physics to the biologists and biology to the physicists, but then he meets another biophysicist, they just discuss women.
    http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Scie...inking_eye.gif
    E-Mail - skiyk@hotmail.com
    Reply With Quote  
     

  96. #95  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by cs-comm View Post
    This is certainly a hot topic among fans. Star Wars wins by the way. Millions of ships and moon sized Death Stars? The United Federation of Planets wouldn't have a chance. As for the Enterprise-E vs. a star destroyer, it would have to be the Enterprise-E vs. Slave 1 (Boba/Jango Fett's ship) for the Enterprise to have a fighting chance.
    Absolutely not! you have no idea what your talking about! Star trek wins, obviously.
    It is obvious that Star Trek (excluding Voyager and enterprise) is the future of Humanity. --Jarhead
    Reply With Quote  
     

  97. #96  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Colyer View Post
    I enjoyed Star Wars but never cared for Star Trek although I do like the film Forbidden Planet after which Star Trek was patterned.
    Star Wars was based off of star trek! (watch the documentary from Ugene Roodenberry, George Lucas actually admits it.)
    It is obvious that Star Trek (excluding Voyager and enterprise) is the future of Humanity. --Jarhead
    Reply With Quote  
     

  98. #97  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Flatland
    Posts
    5,438


    RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE!
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
    Reply With Quote  
     

  99. #98  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by wallaby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    death star is dead, borg destroyed it.

    Its biological and technological distinctivness will be added to our own
    ok then, starwars and star trek combine forces to destroy the borg once and for all.
    It still wouldn't work. if one nano-probe survives then the Borg would regenerate.
    It is obvious that Star Trek (excluding Voyager and enterprise) is the future of Humanity. --Jarhead
    Reply With Quote  
     

  100. #99  
    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Newcastle-upon-Tyne, UK
    Posts
    4,422
    Jarhead, you are responding to posts from between 5 and 7 years ago by people who are no longer active on the forum. Are you expecting them to come back and reply to you?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  101. #100  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Apocalyptic Paradise
    Posts
    6,613
    Quote Originally Posted by jarhead42 View Post
    It still wouldn't work. if one nano-probe survives then the Borg would regenerate.
    Resistance is futile.

    Hey PhDemon, JimColyer is still around

    Resistance is... Victory.
    jarhead42 likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •