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Thread: "Electromagnetic waves" do NOT EXIST!!!

  1. #1 "Electromagnetic waves" do NOT EXIST!!! 
    Forum Bachelors Degree martillo's Avatar
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    "Electromagnetic waves" do NOT EXIST!!!

    Demonstration: http://www.geocities.com/anewlightin..._not_exist.htm

    NOTE:
    The "waves equation" is a linear differential equation of second order and so only two solutions are possible: infinite planes with constant electric and magnetic fields in the entire plane! Not any other kind of solution is accepted.


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  3. #2  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
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    Oh well, at least we've still got electromagnetic particles.


    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  4. #3  
    Forum Bachelors Degree martillo's Avatar
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    Yes, it is proposed that signal transmissions are actually carried with photons as "electromagnetic particles" instead of the "electromagnetic waves".
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  5. #4  
    Moderator Moderator Dishmaster's Avatar
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    Photons are both. This has been shown many times. Interference would be very hard to explain otherwise. The same holds for polarisation. Referring to the statements on the quoted web page: The sources of the fields are explicitly mentioned in the Maxwell equations. So, there is no open question there.
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  6. #5  
    Forum Bachelors Degree martillo's Avatar
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    dishmaster:

    Photons are both.
    No, "light" is currently said to behave as "photons" (particles) sometimes
    and "waves" othertimes but this is like to say that we have an animal that behaves as a fly sometimes and as a shark othertimes what is not an acceptable explanation for me.

    Interference would be very hard to explain otherwise.
    it is very well explained in the site.

    The sources of the fields are explicitly mentioned in the Maxwell equations. So, there is no open question there.
    Not at all, wrong, Maxwell's equations do not specify any kind of sources, they are the general equations that any electric and/or magnetic fields must ever verify in any case.
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  7. #6  
    Moderator Moderator Dishmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martillo
    Not at all, wrong, Maxwell's equations do not specify any kind of sources, they are the general equations that any electric and/or magnetic fields must ever verify in any case.
    The first equation



    or in an equivalent form



    demonstrates that a charge is needed to produce an electric field.
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  8. #7  
    Moderator Moderator Dishmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martillo
    Interference would be very hard to explain otherwise.
    it is very well explained in the site.
    I browsed the site a bit, but I can hardly find any true explanations. The only equation I could find was the one for refraction that also applies to waves. The rest are just unjustified assumptions without any proof. Is polarisation explained? Didn't the photoeffect clearly proof that photons are (also) waves? If they weren't, then increasing their energy would increase the amount of released electrons, but it doesn't. And your idea that includes the emission of a neutrino would violate the fundamental laws of particle conservation.

    Your explanations are little more than hand-waving arguments without concrete calculations of e.g. energy balances. Are there any experiments that can support your ideas and contradict the common model of photons being both particles and waves? I cannot think of any phenomenon that opposes the generally accepted view, but supports yours. Can you?

    I think you are stuck in the old argumentation that particles could not have both particle and wave properties. I say, they can. Why not?
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  9. #8  
    Forum Bachelors Degree martillo's Avatar
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    Dishmaster:
    1)
    So you say that a charge could be a source for an electromagnetic wave, well, give me a deduction of how a "charge" can generate infinite planes of constant electric and magnetic fields parallel to that plane! (You can use whatever model of "charge" you would like to).


    2)
    Is not my intention here to discuss everything proposed in the site. Here I just want to discuss the existency of the "electromagnetic waves". Please mantain the scope of the thread.

    3)
    I developed a manuscript in the best way I could and I'm sorry if it is not enough for you but I cannot develop a text dedicated to each one in the world answering their own questions and doubts. For example I haven't created a section to explain polarisation of light since it is too obvious in the new modwl of light travelling in 3D arrangements of trains of particles.

    4)
    I think you are stuck in the old argumentation that particles could not have both particle and wave properties. I say, they can. Why not?
    I'm not stucked in the old argumentation, I'm recovering it.
    As I said above: "...this is like to say that we have an animal that behaves as a fly sometimes and as a shark othertimes what is not an acceptable explanation for me."
    The other argument is that those proclamed "waves" do not exist, they are not real and nobody wants to really believe in wrong things.
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by martillo
    Dishmaster:
    1)
    So you say that a charge could be a source for an electromagnetic wave, well, give me a deduction of how a "charge" can generate infinite planes of constant electric and magnetic fields parallel to that plane! (You can use whatever model of "charge" you would like to).


    2)
    Is not my intention here to discuss everything proposed in the site. Here I just want to discuss the existency of the "electromagnetic waves". Please mantain the scope of the thread.

    3)
    I developed a manuscript in the best way I could and I'm sorry if it is not enough for you but I cannot develop a text dedicated to each one in the world answering their own questions and doubts. For example I haven't created a section to explain polarisation of light since it is too obvious in the new modwl of light travelling in 3D arrangements of trains of particles.

    4)
    I think you are stuck in the old argumentation that particles could not have both particle and wave properties. I say, they can. Why not?
    I'm not stucked in the old argumentation, I'm recovering it.
    As I said above: "...this is like to say that we have an animal that behaves as a fly sometimes and as a shark othertimes what is not an acceptable explanation for me."
    The other argument is that those proclamed "waves" do not exist, they are not real and nobody wants to really believe in wrong things.

    Things are changing fast in physics. Years ago x-rays and radiation were electrons. Today some say photons. That is pretty ridiculous to me.

    I was taught that electrons in ambient radiation ether, were just messengers. That are in play at all times in all directions. Carrying events to other places using velocity.

    Depending upon ambient radiation velocity, the electrons could react more or less with matter. If very, very fast you may not even detect them. If you slow them some you may get some gravity. Slow them more, you get x-rays, Ultra violet, then light, heat, sound, explosion.

    The electrons only repulse, so if they are going fast they do not have time to leave much of a repulsive charge. If you slow them they are there longer applying more repulsive force.

    So that a single electron can act like a shark or pig. Ha-ha. It was funny but when younger scientists could not bend light with electricity. The concluded that it was another particle. Not an electron.

    When photons first came out, they had no definition. Later they started to take on the same definition the electron had in Universal Science circles. That means that when these same people fought and beat the Universal Scientists, and their massless weightless electrons. Because they could not grasp a weightless massless electron, still having so much force.
    In fact they could not grasp that matter does not have that much weight.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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  11. #10  
    Forum Bachelors Degree martillo's Avatar
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    William McCormick:
    So that a single electron can act like a shark or pig. Ha-ha.
    Fine, but you must agree that is not a good description and only shows that we are not understanding well what is really going on.
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  12. #11  
    Forum Bachelors Degree martillo's Avatar
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    Through discussions in other forums I realized that superpositions of different plane waves in different directions also are solutions to Maxwell's equations and so I was wrong stating that only plane waves are accepted.

    Nevertheless the main claim stands: "There is no possible source of electric and magnetic fields for the "electromagnetics waves" solutions derived from the Maxwell's equations."

    I know this is true for the infinite plane electromagnetic waves solutions. I'm not totally sure for other possible solutions...
    So the challenge is to find possible sources of both electric and magnetic fields for all presented possible solutions to Maxwell's equations.
    I will work in demonstrating that this is impossible... "still much work remains to be done".
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  13. #12  
    Forum Bachelors Degree martillo's Avatar
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    Well, here is my final demonstration of my claim:

    First I will consider that, as I wrote, there is no possible source of electric and magnetic fields for the plane "electromagnetics waves" solutions derived from the Maxwell's equations. It is obvious for the plane waves.
    Second I will consider that in the three dimensional Space the plane waves can travel in any direction and that the general solution for the waves equation can be expressed as a linear combination (superposition) of a finite or infinite number of plane waves.
    Third I will state that if for any plane wave there is no possible source for both the electric and magnetic field to generate it then any wave obtained by a linear combination of plane always also don't have a possible source of electric and magnetic fileds that could generate it.
    Then it can be concluded my claim: "There is no possible source of electric and magnetic fields for the "electromagnetics waves" solutions derived from the Maxwell's equations."
    Finally it can be then stated that the "electromagnetic waves" derived from Maxwell's equations cannot exist.

    Done.
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