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Thread: intelligence question... please answer

  1. #1 intelligence question... please answer 
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    hypothetically speaking...if my family tree and my partners family tree were very intelligent would my child have the ability to understand subjects that we could not have.

    and say if adam and eve (the supposed starters of our race) were in the same situation would our minds be able to further understand science in present day for example would we have more people like einstein and newton?
    if you would like me to elaborate this just ask


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  3. #2  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard i_feel_tiredsleepy's Avatar
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    No, that would suggests lamarckian evolution, you don't pass on traits gained from the environment. There is a correlation between genetics and intelligence, but it's not like the IQ of the parents is added together to make the IQ of the child.


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    i didnt mean an increase of intelligence such as that but would it give the child a small increase of intelligence?
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    Forum Cosmic Wizard i_feel_tiredsleepy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhysboi1991
    i didnt mean an increase of intelligence such as that but would it give the child a small increase of intelligence?
    Unlikely, best bet to increase the intelligence of the next generation is to improve early childhood education and diet during pregnancy.
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  6. #5  
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    It is simply not true that if both parents share a common trait, then the child is bound to have it.

    In the case of a Mendelian trait, it is possible for both parents to have the same trait and for the child not to have it. Indeed, in such a case, the parents can’t really be said to have the trait (they only appear to have it) since each of them has both a dominant gene and a recessive gene for that trait. If their child inherits the recessive gene from each parent (and there’s a 25% chance that this may happen) then the child will totally not have that trait.

    Sorry I’m not a biologist – but I hope I’m not talking nonsense. Also I’m not talking specifically about any “intelligence trait” (which may not be Mendelian) – I’m only talking about the common notion that children always inherit their parents’ features.
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  7. #6  
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    The upbringing you two impart will probably be very helpful, however. The children of smart parents tend to have advantages in their education that go far beyond mere genetics.

    Smart parents will have intellectual conversations in the home. They'll challenge their children by having slightly higher expectations, and they'll usually know how to explain things better, if the child has a question about something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    The upbringing you two impart will probably be very helpful, however. The children of smart parents tend to have advantages in their education that go far beyond mere genetics.

    Smart parents will have intellectual conversations in the home. They'll challenge their children by having slightly higher expectations, and they'll usually know how to explain things better, if the child has a question about something.
    Yea, while I'm not at all an expert in the field it seems to me that children start with a range of IQ instead of a certain fixed level. Intelligent, committed parents can boost a kid with a medium IQ range to the top of his abilities. They probably can't turn him into a genius but I'd be surprised if they couldn't make a significant difference.

    Just an example: children seem to have a 'why' phase when they're 7 or 8 or so. They question everything you tell them as if to practise with their new mental tools. "It's nice weather". why? "The sun is shining" why? "eh there are no clouds blocking it" why? "eh.. the air isn't humid enough for clouds to develop?" why? etc. Often parents get annoyed by this and think the kid is just challenging them or making fun of them. But I suppose intelligent parents would be willing and able to play the game along, and in the process help their children develop their general knowledge and their logic skills.

    Btw a question: sometimes people say that children mostly inherit their intelligence from the mother, not the father. Is that complete nonsense? Or perhaps it's the mother who contributes most to the development of the child's mental skills (as she spends most time with him/her), rather than passing more 'good genes' to the child, hence an intelligent mother contributes more to the mental development of the child than an intelligent father?
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_feel_tiredsleepy
    No, that would suggests lamarckian evolution, you don't pass on traits gained from the environment. There is a correlation between genetics and intelligence, but it's not like the IQ of the parents is added together to make the IQ of the child.
    Thats your opinion. The nature/nurture debate still rages on today.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    Forum Cosmic Wizard paralith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    Quote Originally Posted by i_feel_tiredsleepy
    No, that would suggests lamarckian evolution, you don't pass on traits gained from the environment. There is a correlation between genetics and intelligence, but it's not like the IQ of the parents is added together to make the IQ of the child.
    Thats your opinion. The nature/nurture debate still rages on today.
    Lamarckism is not part of the nature/nurture debate. It is, with very few and very specific exceptions, wrong. Genetic inheritance at the very least does not function that way. Nature/nurture does not address inheritance of genes but the development of your phenotype during your lifetime.

    As for the genetic component of intelligence, it is possible that it may have the potential to be additive. It depends on the nature of the genes that determine it, the vast majority of which are at this point unidentified, so we can't be sure right now.

    So, speaking COMPLETELY HYPOTHETICALLY: it is possible that some of the genes determining intelligence may depend on copy number. The more copies you have, the more intelligent you are. So, if the genetic dice roll in such a way that ALL of both you and your mate's copies get passed on to your child, then that child will have the sum level of intelligence. But it's not necessarily going to be that way. The dice could roll in such a way that the child ends up with less total copies than either parent.

    That only holds of course if that's the genetic mechanism of intelligence, and my guess is that it is far more complicated than that. Not to mention the fact that the environmental input may be just as important, or maybe even more important, than the genetic input when it comes to overall intelligence.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    Quote Originally Posted by i_feel_tiredsleepy
    No, that would suggests lamarckian evolution, you don't pass on traits gained from the environment. There is a correlation between genetics and intelligence, but it's not like the IQ of the parents is added together to make the IQ of the child.
    Thats your opinion. The nature/nurture debate still rages on today.
    I_feel_tiredsleepy is correct though. Traits that are acquired during the lifetime of an individual are not passed on through genes. Lamarckism (as this theory is called) has been emprically disproved.
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  12. #11  
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    It gains its partial credibility from the fact that the environment (the source of one's experiences) selects *against* bad traits. So, by elimination, the experiences of a species as a whole can determine the direction that species' evolution takes.

    But, for individuals, all their life experience determines about their offspring is whether they'll have any.
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    Since when was knowledge passed through genes?

    Sure, they could have a good mind as in a healthy mind, and less likely to accumulate mental problems, but it doesn't allow them to miraculously understand things.

    Experience and knowledge -which is gained through life, allows us to reason and to solve problems.
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  14. #13 Re: intelligence question... please answer 
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    Why is this is pseudoscience?
    Quote Originally Posted by rhysboi1991
    hypothetically speaking...if my family tree and my partners family tree were very intelligent would my child have the ability to understand subjects that we could not have.
    If the child is raised by the natural parents then yes, because most of "intelligence" is learned. And it builds through generations at a monsterous rate. If we're talking about adoptees (genetics only) then no (no more than the overall gain), as explained by previous posters.
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    My mother is an idiot.
    And I pass as smart.
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  16. #15  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    only an idiot (and a rude one at that) would call his mother an idiot
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  17. #16  
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    You don't even know,
    you don't even know.
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  18. #17  
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    You don't even know.
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    only an idiot (and a rude one at that) would call his mother an idiot
    Just because she gave birth doesn't make her above reproach. Perhaps she is an idiot.
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  20. #19  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    still, even IF she was an idiot, calling your mother one does not show much respect for her, which in my view makes the claimant an idiot, whatever his IQ tests may show
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    still, even IF she was an idiot, calling your mother one does not show much respect for her, which in my view makes the claimant an idiot, whatever his IQ tests may show
    Yes, that's right I don't have much respect for her. And I think it's pretty smart of me to choose to deny respect to a person that really doesn't deserve it. She doesn't get a free pass because she's my mother.
    Maybe Ive offended your view or believe or experience of perfect close and loving families. It must be nice to have a wonderful and respectful mother.
    This is just what is right in my head. I didn't mean to sound inconsiderate, I was seriously just proving the point of this topic to the extent of what I've known in my life.
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  22. #21  
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    i once read in an article that the more convulusions the brain have, the more intelligent the person is.
    love will endure when you keep it pure...^_^
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImSetFree
    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    still, even IF she was an idiot, calling your mother one does not show much respect for her, which in my view makes the claimant an idiot, whatever his IQ tests may show
    Yes, that's right I don't have much respect for her. And I think it's pretty smart of me to choose to deny respect to a person that really doesn't deserve it. She doesn't get a free pass because she's my mother.
    Maybe Ive offended your view or believe or experience of perfect close and loving families. It must be nice to have a wonderful and respectful mother.
    This is just what is right in my head. I didn't mean to sound inconsiderate, I was seriously just proving the point of this topic to the extent of what I've known in my life.
    I believe we must have been in similar households. It's not as if you called the woman an idiot to her face. I suspect we should be a little less reactionary around here.
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  24. #23  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard paralith's Avatar
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    Sorry for continuing the off-topic-ness, mods are free to move/remove if they feel it's necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by coltbishop
    Quote Originally Posted by ImSetFree
    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    still, even IF she was an idiot, calling your mother one does not show much respect for her, which in my view makes the claimant an idiot, whatever his IQ tests may show
    Yes, that's right I don't have much respect for her. And I think it's pretty smart of me to choose to deny respect to a person that really doesn't deserve it. She doesn't get a free pass because she's my mother.
    Maybe Ive offended your view or believe or experience of perfect close and loving families. It must be nice to have a wonderful and respectful mother.
    This is just what is right in my head. I didn't mean to sound inconsiderate, I was seriously just proving the point of this topic to the extent of what I've known in my life.
    I believe we must have been in similar households. It's not as if you called the woman an idiot to her face. I suspect we should be a little less reactionary around here.
    Being intelligent is not the only reason to earn respect. You can respect someone for being hardworking, for being honest, for being kind, for giving birth to and raising you.

    And considering how environmental conditions contribute a great deal to intelligence, then I have little doubt that your mother probably contributed in some way towards creating that environment which made you as intelligent as you are. And I think that deserves a little respect as well.

    /soapbox
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  25. #24  
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    I agree. I don't respect people for having talents. I respect them for how they use the talents they have. If a person is smart, but a real a$$ hole, he gets less respect than a dumb, but humble individual.

    As for the nature/nurture debate. I don't know for sure. I'm pretty good at math, and I usually find that anyone I tutor for long becomes pretty good at it too, which makes me doubt that my abilities are genetic. (Or else how would I be passing them on by interaction with others?)


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  26. #25  
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    A questioning mind can always make up for not being able to perform complex multiplications really fast, so measuring someone's intelligence doesn't make much sense to me. Most people could understand science/maths if they were interested enough to work at it. I doubt anyone uses their intellectual potential to the fullest any way.

    I find it interesting to think how human knowledge is such an important part of our lives, almost evolving alongside us. Imagine if we lost everything and had to start over. We would still be just as smart as we are now, but would be reduced to chasing animals about with big rocks. Future people might look back on us and congratulate themselves on being so much smarter than us, yet all they would have is more knowledge.

    Not sure what point I was trying to make here.
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