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About LinkBacksMy husband thinks that there are parallel universes and ghosts and the like are when another parellel universe rubs against ours.
I think he's a twit.
Have other people thought this (the ghost part, not the twit part) or is it his own original idea?
March 26th, 2008, 11:33 AM
My husband thinks that there are parallel universes and ghosts and the like are when another parellel universe rubs against ours.
I think he's a twit.
Have other people thought this (the ghost part, not the twit part) or is it his own original idea?
At least he's thinking outside the box unlike alot of other people are capable of doing. (And I'm not speaking of anyone in this forumI personally don't believe in alternate dimensions but again I could always be wrong. However I see ghosts and spirits, as I mentioned in another thread, as ripples in time.
I've asked this before.....why do ghosts wear clothes? If a ghost was once a living entity then where do the clothes come in?
Ghost is better called 'spirit'. Spirits tend to steer away from younger spirits, as they are more succeptable to evil, or so the theory goes.
because the people in the other universe aren't nakie butts.Originally Posted by zinjanthropos
and where did that theory come from?
Why the spirit realm of course. There is many thing one can learn from the spirits.
you lay off the vodka, it'll do your head in !
As well as ghosts taking their clothes with them you have to wonder if there is a time limit for their haunting days. You would think we should see a few cavemen but ghosts are generally fairly recent. A ghost rider on a horse or any animal in ghost form should tell the believers that dead animals share that same ghostly property as humans. Even then I have to ask...where are dino ghosts? Has anybody ever heard of a ghost plant?
I don't think plants are the same kind of life form, the spirit reflects the intelligence of the host. Which would explain why in Hinduism that the less good deeds you do, the more likley in the circle of life you are lower. Who knows.
Plant ghosts...I've heard it all now, thats even too radical for me.
I have seen a ghost, i try to be as rational of a person that i can possibly be, but i simply cannot explain the ghost that i saw away. it is something i have really been tackeling with lately, because if what i saw really was ghost (and i am certian it was) it completely destroys my perception of reality. it is one of those things that start with, i know this sounds crazy... or your not going to believe this...
what did it look like? Was it a whisp of smoke as has been video taped as apparent ghosts or was it the fictional version of ghosts as they look in movies and such? I'm not exactly sure which version is correct or if infact either or none of them are.
its funny now to think about it, it was the stereotype a cloudy/smokey human shaped figure, others have seen the same ghosts in the same building i dont know if anyone has seen him recently they called him mr.newkurk.
its just odd though, as soon as you have this mental impression of the world and everything is rational something absoluty bizzare happens.
has anyone else seen a ghost
Plants? Dinos?
I've never thought of that before. Interesting. Although, I don't believe in ghosts for the more practical belief. The question of never seen any other than people much less recent ones it odd.
So then did this whispy smoke wear clothes as was stated earlier in this thread concerning the improbability of ghosts or was it just a human figured whisp of smoke that moved about and such?
I'm also curious as to the differences between poltergeists and spirits. Poltergeists are those things that follow families around while spirits and ghosts are just stuck to one indiviual place correct?
Theres obviously some kind of phenomena occuring, somehow in relation to 'ghosts' (the correct word is spirits).
Suppose the "harvesting" of souls is a deliberate effort on the part of a more advanced society. Then the spirits have clothes because it's psychologically important to them to have clothes.
Perhaps the goal of the advanced society is to incorporate human souls into their more advanced society, by helping them make the transition from life as they knew it to life as their higher technology defines it, and then giving them bodies and letting them join.
This could take 2 forms:
1) - An alien society that doesn't believe in having kids, only incorporating the children of other societies.
2) - A future society of humans from Earth who are capable of time traveling backward in a limited sense, and use that ability to find and recover their ancestors.
The Flying Dutchman is a ghost ship last seen in the 1940's. Before that it made many appearance on the high seas. Where did it go and how does a ship become a ghost?
As usual any ghost pics are grainy. Just for once I'd love to see a clear photo of anything paranormal.
I guess all past ghosts or those who have lost their haunts have moved on. Where did the headless horseman's horse come from? What did that ghost do while he waited for his horse to die and join him. While I'm on the subject it appears a ghost can be a ghost even if they're missing crucial body parts.
How much of our perception of ghosts is influenced by the entertainment media?
Perhaps ghosts are merely reliving their past lives during times of intense turmoil. I've often read that apparitions have appeared as a result of being murdered and such. Perhaps these apparitions are a direct result of the intense forboding of the person murdered. We don't know much about the power of our minds and what that power can do. Perhaps when such intense feelings come about for certain individuals it makes a sort of imprint on the artea at which the murder or accident occured.
About 99.9% of all sightings and 'evidence'. Ah the media, sciences arch nemesis.
March 30th, 2008, 10:54 AM
I think the theory on so-called "residual hauntings" is correct. That crystals in stone in buildings record dramatic events like microchips store energy & occasionally when the EMF gets upset, they are played back. Whether anyone is there to see them or not. Other "spirits" I believe are either imagination, demonic, or angelic in nature. I believe spirits that appear to be harmless, but not particularly angelic, are demonic spirits in disguise
Get ready for it.
If that was the case we might as well go sit on the battlefields of the Earth and watch the past happen. Funny how moments where thousands are killed never seems to produce a big massive ghostly image.
There have been instances where people have stated that they saw a specific battle fought that was actually fought long ago. Also there have been many instances where spirits have been seen that were dressed in combat gear. I believe there is even some ghosts that have appeared that were making plans for the American civil war.If that was the case we might as well go sit on the battlefields of the Earth and watch the past happen. Funny how moments where thousands are killed never seems to produce a big massive ghostly image.
However, I am merely sharing ideas that come into my head. They have no proof nor do I personally plan to provide any type of proof. They are mere ideas in passing. I'm thinking that one of you may share the same sort of ideas or one of you may bring my idea and incorporate it somehow into your own.
I don't think we'll ever get proof. If it's part of a sort of time travel, then proof would likely violate the causal chain that leads to people in the future interacting with the past. I mean, if time travel is possible, then it's probably only possible to do it in ways that don't change the past.
If the harvesting of souls is being done by an advanced civilization, then our lives are a kind of illusion they probably don't want to see dispelled.
It depends on the level to which it emotionally traumatized the individual. Most soldiers have gotten over their fear of death, at least part way, before they actually enter the battlefield. It's not unexpected to them that they should die there.If that was the case we might as well go sit on the battlefields of the Earth and watch the past happen. Funny how moments where thousands are killed never seems to produce a big massive ghostly image.
April 1st, 2008, 10:36 AM
Those are what are called "residual hauntings" but if the theory I mentioned earlier is correct(and I believe it is), the term really should be "Residual energy" since there is no intelligence or consciousness involvedIf that was the case we might as well go sit on the battlefields of the Earth and watch the past happen. Funny how moments where thousands are killed never seems to produce a big massive ghostly image.
April 1st, 2008, 02:25 PM
So, you believe in bigfoots, you believe in gods, and now you're trying to tell us you believe in ghosts, too?
Do you believe in sanity?
Do you believe in consideration for other peoples beliefs, no matter how ridiculous they may seem to you? Thats called being diplomatic Q, not dictatorial.
Yes, I am considerate of their beliefs, as anybody would with the insane and deluded.
April 1st, 2008, 02:37 PM
Apparently you can say whatever you want about or to whoever you want here. Moderators, HA!!! What a joke!
On top of this I'm fairly certain that if my theory is true that it would only pertain to specific people or people with abormal brainwave patterns or those people able to tap into certain area of their brain that the majority of people can not in their own. Otherwise, like the previous poster alluded to, there would be many many spirits running around creating havok.
Any theory that suggests some type of residual energy left behind is more palatable for me because it doesn't try to associate ghosts with an afterlife. Still. I'd have to see one, not necessarily to believe it a ghost, but to then try and figure out what I saw.
April 1st, 2008, 10:27 PM
Q, where is the fun in only believing in what's been proven? Then you have no frontier to expand into with your thinking.So, you believe in bigfoots, you believe in gods, and now you're trying to tell us you believe in ghosts, too?
Do you believe in sanity?
I like paranormal stuff because it straddles the fence between total fiction and total reality. It's like fiction where you never know... . it might be true.
April 2nd, 2008, 08:59 AM
I wasn't aware we were supposed to be here to pander to overactive imaginations.
I don't know about you, Q, but I actually visit the science forum more for my own entertainment than any other reason. If there's no stigma on me discussing and taking an interest in Star Trek, why should there be a stigma on me discussing and taking an interest in the paranormal?
At least the paranormal has some chance of being true, and that's half of the fun.
More importantly: this is the psuedo-science forum. So there's no need to ridicule anybody. I think most of us know the odds against this being true are greater than the odds in favor, but it's all in good fun.
April 3rd, 2008, 06:07 AM
We're here on this Earth to do what the fuck we want to fucking do Q. And you or anyone else does not have the damn right to tell anyone else what they can or cannot do with their life!I wasn't aware we were supposed to be here to pander to overactive imaginations.
Sure, it's fun. But, it's far from being true. Both Star Trek and the paranormal are fantasies.
Those who refuse to distinguish the fantasies will be ridiculed for their refusal, as it should be.More importantly: this is the psuedo-science forum. So there's no need to ridicule anybody. I think most of us know the odds against this being true are greater than the odds in favor, but it's all in good fun.
April 3rd, 2008, 08:27 AM
You will succumb to the will of Q, puny human.
Now, go forth and make an ass of yourself.
I smell a Star Trek quote.
Don't tell me you've actually found a way to prove a negative. Awesome. Now we have a means of fending of those religious enthusiasts.
Let's try and keep the peace. We are here to discuss topics not in the conventional realm of science, not to argue about whether to do so or not.
If a topic still exists, I believe that ghosts have only been recorded to have been sighted when one is alone and/or scared. Plus, in the thousands of years that this myth has been around, no viable records of ghosts have been found. The possibility is still there though. Those ghosts could just be crafty :-D .
A negative what?
It's impossible to prove a negative. As in a negtive statement. As in you can't prove that there is no god and you can't prove that there are no other worldy dimensions etc...A negative what?
You can only prove a positive.
But how do you know if something is positive or negative? Therefore if you say something does not exist when you don't know if the question is actually positive or negative, then are you not limiting your horizons? Omitting something potentially very important? Yes I would think so anyway.
You can't prove if a statement is negative or positive...
The fun of paranormal discussions arises partly from that small possibility that it actually could turn out to be true. Granted it's a small possibility, but it's a small non-zero possibility.Sure, it's fun. But, it's far from being true. Both Star Trek and the paranormal are fantasies.
Those who refuse to distinguish the fantasies will be ridiculed for their refusal, as it should be.More importantly: this is the psuedo-science forum. So there's no need to ridicule anybody. I think most of us know the odds against this being true are greater than the odds in favor, but it's all in good fun.
To rule it a total fantasy shows that you like to bet with the odds, which is probably a logical course of action most of the time, but not absolutely always. A smart investor puts most of their money in a safe place, then plays the rest in speculative markets, or as venture capital.
You can't prove there are gods and you can't prove there aren't gods.
You can't prove there are unicorns and you can't prove there aren't unicorns.
Gods and unicorns still sound like fantasies to me.
Yet, looking at it critically and logistically, the paranormal simply couldn't exist, a zero possibility. It would have to violate several physical laws.
I would agree that there is profit in bilking the gullible with the paranormal, but most investors recognize swamp land, too.To rule it a total fantasy shows that you like to bet with the odds, which is probably a logical course of action most of the time, but not absolutely always. A smart investor puts most of their money in a safe place, then plays the rest in speculative markets, or as venture capital.
You can prove there are unicorns if you have a unicorn on hand. You can't prove there are unicorns because there will always be soemthing somewhere you didn't look at or someplace you didn't go to.You can't prove there are gods and you can't prove there aren't gods.
You can't prove there are unicorns and you can't prove there aren't unicorns.
Gods and unicorns still sound like fantasies to me.
That assumes we know how all of physics works, which we don't. Take the famous double slit experiment, for example.Yet, looking at it critically and logistically, the paranormal simply couldn't exist, a zero possibility. It would have to violate several physical laws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment
Until we figure out how that works, we're not in much a position to say what can and can't happen.
I guess every time a series of breakthroughs happens in one century or another people will fool themselves into thinking they have the complete rule book, but it's probably never going to be true.
When we finally figure out stuff like the double slit experiment, entanglement of certain sub-atomic particles, or devise a law of gravity that can be universalized from the subatomic world up to the macroscopic....... it may bring with it a technology that allows us to do something we never imagined possible.
And who's to say someone out there hasn't already done so? Or maybe we'll find that nature herself has a version of it working already.
Ok, so since I've not been to Uranus, the possibility that unicorns might live there is always open.
Well, ya got me there.
Sorry, you don't know how that works?
you prettey much summed up my reasons for being an athiest.
I think we can get back on topic after those exchanges because it brought up an interesting detail. What role does religion play, especially for ghost sightings? Would an atheist be more likely to not see a ghost than a theist?
I guess what I'm asking is this: What came first, religion or the paranormal and can one exist without the other?
I would have to believe that a ghost sighting is a desirable event for anyone who believes in the hereafter. It is like a confirmation or proof of God or everlasting life in some ways. So how much influence would your beliefs force upon you to witness a ghost? Let's say an atheist and a theist slept overnite in a cemetery, each sees a wisp of mist or something similar rises out of the ground in a somewhat human like image, who is going to think it a ghost? My bet is on the theist.
Or any other part of the universe, or any other part of the Earth for that matter. But yes that is basically what I stated. I'm actually surprised that someoen as well spoken as you has not nheard that it's virutally impossible to prove a negative as most of the intelligent people I've spoken with in the past know this.Ok, so since I've not been to Uranus, the possibility that unicorns might live there is always open.
Well, ya got me there.
Actually, I did know you can't prove a negative. However, nowhere was I attempting to do so.
Oh.... that's harsh. :xSorry, you don't know how that works?
I'm not clear on how it is that, when they start sending single photons, electrons, or other atomic particles/particle-like objects through it, that they're able to still create interference patterns.
This suggests that they're interfering with themselves. One suggestion is that the field and the particle are two different things and that the particle is simply riding a field that interferes with itself...
Do you have a good explanation for it?
I'm not trying to be like theists, who simply claim that any unexplained part of science is proof for God, but to me the unexplained/ unsatisfactorily explained presents the possibility of technologies we've yet to imagine, which means things that we assume to be impossible, but which aren't.
Staying on topic.....ghost particles.
I think they already know how that works. I believe it's been posted in the forums before. One type of particle goes through one both slits while another type of particle goes only through one slit resulting in what you see. I think that's the basic premise of it.
To be clear, I wouldn't go so far as to say they know. I'm pretty sure they have a theory, and that theory hasn't been experimentally disproven, but it probably hasn't been experimentally supported either, other than that the experimental phenomenon it's meant to explain is experimentally proven to exist.
Just like how some people accept the theory that God created the Earth merely because they know the Earth exists, and the idea that God created it seems to provide adequate explanation, ........ so also I'm sure that this two particle theory seems to provide adequate explanation, but that doesn't automatically make it a real answer.
April 10th, 2008, 09:32 AM
I have a couple of related questions from the skeptical point of view:
1)Most "ghost" sightings occur in very old buildings & houses with lead paint in them. Could the lead in the paint cause the high electro-magnetic fields often attributed to paranormal activity?
2)Often, paranormal researchers experience rapid battery drains in their equipment. Couldn't a high electro-magnetic field cause such drains?
I suppose.
But bear in mind that all 'explanations' are likely to fall under the most explanatory umbrella - basic human credulity and desire for agency in all things.
April 10th, 2008, 09:44 AM
That's what I'm saying. Maybe the lead in the paint is causing the high electro-magnetic fields & the high electro-magnetic fields are in turn, causing the battery drains. So the lead in the paint might be the logical explanation for both of these things that some attribute to ghosts
April 10th, 2008, 10:57 AM
And the lead in the brain caused by breathing in car fumes causing increased electric magnetic spikes causing battery drain-of-the-brain leading to hallucinations?
There are many 'logical' explanations
Perhaps ghosts are something logic can't explain
April 10th, 2008, 01:45 PM
Do you believe "orbs" are paranormal? In my opinion, orbs are the easiest of paranormal phenomena to explain. They are either dust particles or insects caught in light. Some people try to say that a particular "orb" is too big for an unnoticeable draft of air to change its path. But what they fail to consider is that there is nothing in the films to rule out the possibility that the "orb" is almost against the camera lens & thus, looks much bigger than it really isAnd the lead in the brain caused by breathing in car fumes causing increased electric magnetic spikes causing battery drain-of-the-brain leading to hallucinations?
There are many 'logical' explanations
Perhaps ghosts are something logic can't explain
April 11th, 2008, 01:07 AM
Is that like on the 6th Sense, where ghosts would suck the heat out of the room when manifesting? Maybe they have to take energy from somewhere nearby in order to do things.
For me, that corresponds to the idea of a time traveler using in-situ materials to help them out, so they don't have to take as much with them. In fact, my theory of time travel is that even sending their whole body would take an un-godly amount of energy/fuel. Kind of like going to the Moon or something.
April 11th, 2008, 08:11 AM
kojax asks: "Is that like on the 6th Sense, where ghosts would suck the heat out of the room when manifesting? Maybe they have to take energy from somewhere nearby in order to do things."
Yes. That is the theory most paranormal researchers subscribe to.
Are ghosts matter or energy?
If they are not either matter nor energy than they do not exist as we know of existance.
They're cold, aparrently. Thats energy, or matter. Or vice versa.
People need to exercise their feelings. We're just not built to be always calm, or always happy, etc. It's like if you're sitting for a long time, you might suddenly get up and walk around aimlessly, for a change, no conscious reason besides, say, "Oh, I'll go look out the window to check the weather." which is just rationalizing the body's need for variety. See, the body leads, the mind covers after the fact.
So what happens when a person has a good thing going? Comfortable, calm, everything makes sense, no need for goosebumps. I think it unhealthy to maintain such a state. I think the body agrees with me. Eventually something in us rebels against the unbearable stoppage, forcefully. We get spooked. Our minds - inseparable - must go along with the wild ride. We could imagine ghosts.
Ironically, it is the people who are basically happy, who find the queerest things to get upset about. Conversely, the wretched find joy in the oddest things.
Do ghosts guide the hands and the planchette of the Ouija Board?
My mother used to do Ouija with her sisters. She actually honed a knack for moving the thang by imperceptible twitches of the fingertips. So she can spell "you turd" or whatever at will. The thingie slides freely under her apparently motionless hands.
Hey, Ouija tug-of-war! A competitive sport!
No, absolutely not
The Ouija board is yet another fantastic implement used for the mind to trick itself!
The mind is a very powerful tool and is a master of imagination.
Imagination and perception are one and the same
The mind has more control of the body than the body has over the mind.
If i imagine a ghost might move the planchette then it probably will move, yet i have moved it on an unconscious level unawares and so i will blame it on the said ghost that i am imagining in my head.
Agreed. People claim unseen spirits guide their hands. Why are some spirits never seen, only deemed to be present and capable of physical acts?No, absolutely not
The Ouija board is yet another fantastic implement used for the mind to trick itself!
The mind is a very powerful tool and is a master of imagination.
Imagination and perception are one and the same
The mind has more control of the body than the body has over the mind.
If i imagine a ghost might move the planchette then it probably will move, yet i have moved it on an unconscious level unawares and so i will blame it on the said ghost that i am imagining in my head.
May 22nd, 2008, 03:16 PM
If science demands a body to prove Bigfoot exists, does that mean ghosts can never be "proven" to exist even if they do?
Cold is not energy, cold is the lack of energy.
Perhaps ghosts consists of dark matter and dark energy? (Oh my god, can't believe I just said that...) Look over there!
Define ghosts. Are they floating consciousnesses or something? Proof for eternal life? Or are they simply hallucinations? (I'm for the latter :wink: )
It's possible that the art of ouija board is just another way for a person to listen to their "gut" by allowing the subconscious mind to control what happens instead of their conscious mind.
Possible, but there could also be more to it. People who want to see science as a complete picture will wait for absolute proof to believe anything could exist that we still don't understand.
Well, cold is the yin to heat's yang.Cold is not energy, cold is the lack of energy.
The only way to harness the energy of heat is to transfer it to a cold area, or to create it in a cold area.
Ghosts are just an illusion made by human weakness.
I think that's how it works unless you "tilt" it.
I played a nifty meditative tug 'o war at the local Science World. This was on a table, a contestant at each end, with a traveler running down a track, one way or the other. The object is to "push" the traveler to the opponent's end. Push with the brain only, through a sort of polygraph each player wears. The more calm, the more force the traveler receives, but of course it works both ways, and most force is canceled out by the opponent.
So one sits and meditates on that traveler. Relax. Cool confidence wins the battle. Pretty soon the traveler begins to move. One cannot help but watch the opponent - eye contact and mind games are inevitable. One tries a smirk... a scowl... the traveler reacts because the guy sitting opposite reacts, even subconsciously.
A 3-year-old boy owned me so bad.
Sounds like it could be popular a Wii game
I can explain it: your willingness to find patterns in random things.
Either that or you were hallucinating.
I was just watching Ghost Hunters today. It's interesting because sometimes they clear a place and conclude no ghosts, and sometimes they find something. The one I watched today was pretty interesting. They got recorded speech, infra-red signature (mild), emf, and timed responses. It was pretty convincing.
I mean, they used a pretty sound evidence approach. Not enough to re-write the textbooks, or anything, but pretty reasonable.
May 31st, 2008, 09:35 AM
The two most interesting ones were the investigation of the Sharon Tate house where they captured an EVP that sounded to me like a very distraught woman asking "Why are you doing this?" & the episode where they captured an EVP that sounded like a child asking "Who's Jason?" Jason is the name of one of the lead investigators
The EVP from the Tate house seems to support the theory that "ghosts" are events that are recorded by the crystal in foundations, stone walls, etc... the same way info is recorded on microchips, and then played back when there is a disturbance the electro-magnetic field
I wish I could remember the name of the house I saw them do. In the same episode they did a historic theater too (which had no ghosts). The ghost in the one I saw was in the basement, and it responded to requests they made. They'd tell it to walk by some of their sensors, or make noises on demand.
They told it to sit down at a table with them and tell them it's problems and the recorder registered it saying something that sounded like "Well, thank you." Like it was actually going to go ahead and tell them its problems.
Then, when they told it to make a noise by hitting something, they recorded it saying something like "I will do this." It's faint, but it's unmistakable that the sound is out of place. It doesn't seem to be mixed in with other static.
My point is: this particular ghost showed intelligence. I know it's paranoid, but I never watch these shows at night.
June 2nd, 2008, 06:05 PM
Yeah. Things like that do indicate intelligence. The Tate house episode also had the entity (Which the owner believed to be the ghost of Jay Sebring) adjusting the room temperature by specific, requested degrees
June 5th, 2008, 10:05 AM
Last night on "Ghost Hunters" they pretty much debunked one of the most famous American hauntings. The "Moss Beach Distillery" haunting. They found speakers & devices hidden to make the chandeliers sway from side to side. Plus they didn't record any EVP's or images on night vision or thermal. The only thing that at first, seemed like something, was a room where sometimes people reported feeling uneasy. But they were able to contribute that to a ceiling fan with a burnt medium gear. It emitted a very low hum when on medium which seemed to be the source of the feeling. Jason & Grant first placed Kris Williams in the room with the fan off. She felt nothing. Then they took her out & put her back in with the fan on medium. This time she had the uneasy feeling. They did all of this without telling Kris anything about the fan at all. They couldn't debunk "The Blue Lady" But the only evidence of her are sighting reports.
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