Thread: Ancient technology (eg. Atlantis)

I think pseudo-science is a good place to discuss this. There is limited evidence that some technologically advanced (for the ancient age) societies might have developed during the last ice age, before it ended about 10,000 years ago, mostly in areas now covered by ocean.

We're not going to get really good archeology on those places any time soon, because you have to dive to even reach the ruins themselves, but it's probably where you'd have to go to find the evidence, because they'd be the only warm places back then.

Some people think the Great Pyramid and/or Stone Henge could originate in an older era. Most of the places that are suspected to have harbored advancement are concentrated around the equator, or near it. The meditaranian sea, some of the waters south of India, some of the Gulf of Mexico, and .... of course.......... a mythical land mass that may have once collapsed to form an underwater plateau around the Azores Islands in the Atlantic.....

There is limited evidence that some technologically advanced (for the ancient age) societies might have developed during the last ice age

What evidence exactly? And how advanced?

Well, it's not all from reliable sources. The ones most often pointed to are a rock structure off the coast of Japan that seems man made (has a lot of straight lines and flat surfaces, like some temples). There's this part of the ocean floor in the Gulf of Mexico that looks a lot like a road. A number of underground megalithic structures have been found in the Mediteranian (but we know the waters of the Mediteranian have been rising for a lot of recorded history as well)

More credible things are some very well preserved Cave paintings found in caves that are now underwater. They don't prove high societies existed, but they prove mankind (or similar) was alive and well during the ice age.

The Great Pyramid and surrounding structures are sometimes considered as evidence. The wear patterns on the back and legs of the Sphinx indicate that it existed much further into antiquity than Egypt's official histories suggest, and artistically the human head seems like it may have been carved much later after the rest of it was built. (Like if the original lion head had simply become too worn with age)

The strongest evidence for me is just the fact there is a "Neo-lithic" and "Mega-lithic" age. None of the objects that use huge blocks (which is what mega-lithic refers to) have recorded histories behind them except the Great Pyramid. That just seems strange to me.

Egyptian pharaohs were known sometimes to deliberately falsify or erase periods of history, and it does seem kind of odd that most pyramids use small blocks, even those built before, after, and at the same time as Khufu (the pharaoh credited with building the Great Pyramid), so it's easy for people who want to to wonder. That, and the Great Pyramid doesn't have much in the way of heiroglyphics inside of it like most pyramids.

Originally Posted by kojax

None of the objects that use huge blocks (which is what mega-lithic refers to) have recorded histories behind them except the Great Pyramid. That just seems strange to me.

Even if the societies that built them didn't have writing, as all the evidence suggests?

Originally Posted by kojax

Well, it's not all from reliable sources. The ones most often pointed to are a rock structure off the coast of Japan that seems man made (has a lot of straight lines and flat surfaces, like some temples).

Volcanos have created similar features all around the world.

There's this part of the ocean floor in the Gulf of Mexico that looks a lot like a road.

Same as above.

More credible things are some very well preserved Cave paintings found in caves that are now underwater. They don't prove high societies existed, but they prove mankind (or similar) was alive and well during the ice age.

And so? We know that mankind was doing well during ice age...

The Great Pyramid and surrounding structures are sometimes considered as evidence. The wear patterns on the back and legs of the Sphinx indicate that it existed much further into antiquity than Egypt's official histories suggest, and artistically the human head seems like it may have been carved much later after the rest of it was built. (Like if the original lion head had simply become too worn with age)

There are other hills that look like the sphinx, they're a feature of Egyptian desert. Wind blowing in a same general direction erodes rocky hills in a very distinct, sphinx-like way. Egyptian just built a head and paws on a suitable hill.

The strongest evidence for me is just the fact there is a "Neo-lithic" and "Mega-lithic" age. None of the objects that use huge blocks (which is what mega-lithic refers to) have recorded histories behind them except the Great Pyramid. That just seems strange to me.

They were built by civilizations which either didn't wrote or wrote on perishable materials now lost in time, and in some cases were completely gone before Western civilization contacted them (unlike Egyptian civilization).

Egyptian pharaohs were known sometimes to deliberately falsify or erase periods of history, and it does seem kind of odd that most pyramids use small blocks, even those built before, after, and at the same time as Khufu (the pharaoh credited with building the Great Pyramid), so it's easy for people who want to to wonder.

Egyptians sometimes used large blocks (like monolyths 20 meters long), but usually they were limited by a logistic problem: transporting large amounts of construction materials through a sandy desert.

Well, it isn't perfect evidence. I'll agree with you there. If it were, I'm sure everyone would believe it.

More credible things are some very well preserved Cave paintings found in caves that are now underwater. They don't prove high societies existed, but they prove mankind (or similar) was alive and well during the ice age.

And so? We know that mankind was doing well during ice age...

Archaeologists hardly ever find any bones from Homo-sapiens during that time, which suggests that, if homo-sapiens was alive during the ice age, we mostly lived somewhere they aren't able to look to find the bones. (Like lower altitudes now covered by water)

In order to reconcile the incredible lack of homo-sapiens bones from the ice age time with the fact that homo-sapiens are found on islands that were only reachable during the ice age (at least without more modern sailing practices), some have even gone so far as to suggest that homo-erectus independantly evolved into homo-sapiens everywhere the homo-erectus lived.

If that theory seems absurd to you, then the only real alternative is to believe that all, or nearly all, homo-sapiens lived in the low lands, and only moved to the higher altitudes when the waters rose.

The Great Pyramid and surrounding structures are sometimes considered as evidence. The wear patterns on the back and legs of the Sphinx indicate that it existed much further into antiquity than Egypt's official histories suggest, and artistically the human head seems like it may have been carved much later after the rest of it was built. (Like if the original lion head had simply become too worn with age)

There are other hills that look like the sphinx, they're a feature of Egyptian desert. Wind blowing in a same general direction erodes rocky hills in a very distinct, sphinx-like way. Egyptian just built a head and paws on a suitable hill.

Likely, but we might still expect them to have carved the outer surface to make it more like a lion. It would be remarkable for it to be so identical that they wouldn't do any additional carving, and that would be clearly visible as areas where the signs of wear are more recent.

The strongest evidence for me is just the fact there is a "Neo-lithic" and "Mega-lithic" age. None of the objects that use huge blocks (which is what mega-lithic refers to) have recorded histories behind them except the Great Pyramid. That just seems strange to me.

They were built by civilizations which either didn't wrote or wrote on perishable materials now lost in time, and in some cases were completely gone before Western civilization contacted them (unlike Egyptian civilization).

Which reinforces my point. How did illiterate people coordinate their efforts so effectively? The logistics of megalithic construction are more difficult than neo-lithic, so why do literate societies (capable of a higher level of logistical accomplishment) only seem to have built neo-lithic structures?

Egyptian pharaohs were known sometimes to deliberately falsify or erase periods of history, and it does seem kind of odd that most pyramids use small blocks, even those built before, after, and at the same time as Khufu (the pharaoh credited with building the Great Pyramid), so it's easy for people who want to to wonder.

Egyptians sometimes used large blocks (like monolyths 20 meters long), but usually they were limited by a logistic problem: transporting large amounts of construction materials through a sandy desert.

Of course they were limited by the logistical problem, which is why they didn't do a lot of large block building. Mega-lithic construction is more difficult. But, how much evidence do we really have that the egyptians *ever* used large block construction?

The Great Pyramid had very very little in the way of heiroglyphics inside of it. (What few have been found were in the upper attic and showed reasonable evidence of forgery on the part of their discoverer)

Kafre's own wives were put inside of small block pyramids, which makes you wonder. If he already had the logistics in place to move massive blocks (to build his own pyramid), why not just keep bringing more of them for his wives' tombs?

Originally Posted by kojax

I think pseudo-science is a good place to discuss this. There is limited evidence that some technologically advanced (for the ancient age) societies might have developed during the last ice age, before it ended about 10,000 years ago, mostly in areas now covered by ocean.
{...}
The meditaranian sea, some of the waters south of India, some of the Gulf of Mexico, and .... of course.......... a mythical land mass that may have once collapsed to form an underwater plateau around the Azores Islands in the Atlantic.....

You are so close to what is revealed in the Revelatorium(http://www.revelatorium.com/Chapt17.htm). The Revelatorium is a sanctified Christ teaching presented on the Christ table is:
Quoted from Chapter 17 is:

Atlantis for most of its time comprised populated centers over much of the Earth, including some large mining operations in the high isolated plateaus of South America. The Atlantians extracted aluminum directly from the soil without the need of electrolysis and used it for most of their buildings. After the demise of Atlantis, when consciousnesses no longer held the structures in their intended forms, they quickly began dissipating back to the elements.

The main Atlantian center of civilization was a large island between the Azores and Easter Island near the mid Atlantic. The present day Islands were mountain tops on the original Island.

North America had only a sparse population. Two centers, Sodom and Gomorrah however, existed where the mass consciousness was well evolved into higher fourth dimensional awareness. Who were also particularly adept in the power of crystals. The Atlantians also traveled in magnetic levitational devices which were able to move at a hundred miles an hour across the meridians and a thousand miles an hour up and down.

Sodom (vice), was located near the north east border of what is now Washington State and British Columbia in Canada. Gomorrah (crime), was located in what is now offshore the city of Miami, Florida.

More at http://www.revelatorium.com/Chapt17.htm

I'd be interested to know where their perspective springs from. If they arrived at the same conclusions for different reasons then it could be something of a confirmation.

I wonder where the revelatorium comes from. Maybe the writer simply looked at the same evidence as me, or went to the same web sites, or etc. That would make his/her opinion co-dependant with mine, rather than serving as an alternative confirmation.

Dealing with the pyramids, do you have any idea how large and heavy those things you call small blocks really are? The majority of them weigh over a ton or two and they were taken from a quarry not far away from the site. I've been watching an archeology show on the History channel (Canadian style) which is run by an archeologist. This archeologist attempts to find the truth behind mysteries of the past. He's doen the great pyramids, the sphinx and a host of other mysteries. He tried to move the blocks from the quarry to the site where the pyramids are and yes he could do it with a large group. Remember these rulers had thousands of people working in their quarries.

Dealing with the sphinx the weathering on it is caused by windblown sand. Sand weathers artifacts very fast. And yes the head was remodeled after one of the kings of Egypt though I can't recall his name at this moment. It was the same ruler who went around to all the other past rulers temples and incribed his name on all of their temples. He lived to the age of 90, 3x longer than the average age during that time period. I believe he even prnounced himself a god while he was still alive which was a title that was given to pharoahs after they died.But regardless, he had the head of the sphinx remodelledin his likeness.

Yeah. The tendency of ancient Egyptian societies to revise history like that makes me really question how likely Khufu is to have really built the Great Pyramid. I could be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure nobody has ever found any Egyptian writing on the inside of the pyramid.

There was this british guy who claimed to find a heiroglyph in a part of the "attic" above the main chamber, which he had to blast with explosives to reach, but there's a lot of reason to question that find. Most pyramids have some much writing in them you really couldn't miss it.


So... are we to believe the Khufu built the largest pyramid ever, and then chose not to put any writing inside to prove his authenticity as the builder? Or... more likely, he laid claim to it, and then didn't know how to get inside to inscribe anything on it.