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  1. #1 handwriting 
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    Do you think that handwriting analysis is actually reliable? I've heard that 'handwriting experts' can determine things about a person according to their style of handwriting. For example, I've heard that serial killers' handwriting tends to be slanted. I have slanted handwriting at times, and I'm not, to my knowledge, a serial killer. Basically I'm just wondering if it seems like a reliable "science."


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  3. #2 Re: handwriting 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemboy
    Do you think that handwriting analysis is actually reliable? I've heard that 'handwriting experts' can determine things about a person according to their style of handwriting. For example, I've heard that serial killers' handwriting tends to be slanted. I have slanted handwriting at times, and I'm not, to my knowledge, a serial killer. Basically I'm just wondering if it seems like a reliable "science."
    as someone who has studied graphology and practiced it, yes it works.

    The science behind it is fairly simple really.

    Basic lesson to follow.

    Try this yourself, in relaxed mood write your name.
    THEN next,
    simulate someone in an irritable angry mood. Do your best oscar award winning performance. FEEL the tension. Then grab a pen and write your name.

    Note the pressure the pen has to the paper, the rigidity of the letters. The inflexible connections.

    TENSION of mind and body flows through your arm to your hand.

    You can even tell certain health problems. Example, those with serious heart problems may write with gaps in letters and words and the lines are very wobbly/shaky looking. Again given irregular heart beat, BP problems etc, all these health problems translate into body movement.

    All graphology is - is body movement with a pen in your hand.


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    re serial killer, it would take a lot more than slanted writing to determine that!

    Most left handed people's writing slants to the left for example.

    Depressed people tend to slant left and their lines slope down to the right. Again simple reassoning. They have lost interest (after first letter) and don't have the concentration required to maintain a straight horizontal line on unlined paper.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    re serial killer, it would take a lot more than slanted writing to determine that!

    Most left handed people's writing slants to the left for example.

    Depressed people tend to slant left and their lines slope down to the right. Again simple reassoning. They have lost interest (after first letter) and don't have the concentration required to maintain a straight horizontal line on unlined paper.
    I'm lefthanded and my handwriting is slanted like this ///, I'd call that a right slant but maybe thats what you meant. Also on unlined paper my lines usually slope down and to the right. Its just how my hand tends to move across the paper regardless of how I'm feeling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supernothing
    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    re serial killer, it would take a lot more than slanted writing to determine that!

    Most left handed people's writing slants to the left for example.

    Depressed people tend to slant left and their lines slope down to the right. Again simple reassoning. They have lost interest (after first letter) and don't have the concentration required to maintain a straight horizontal line on unlined paper.
    I'm lefthanded and my handwriting is slanted like this ///, I'd call that a right slant but maybe thats what you meant. Also on unlined paper my lines usually slope down and to the right. Its just how my hand tends to move across the paper regardless of how I'm feeling.
    I said 'most' not all.

    To analyse someones handwriting you can't just take one or two things as a determination of character. It has to be everything. Pressure, slant, height,width of letters, joining strokes, where the 't' bar sits, how you dot your 'i' ........a zillion things.

    The examples I gave were like 'one' indicator of many - just as an illustration of the principle.

    I am glad you're not feeling 'down'
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    I haven't studied graphology but it seems to be much less of an exact science and any analysis is more of a best guess into someones personality or mood. Considering my own handwriting disagrees with two of your examples I figured I'd share.
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supernothing
    I haven't studied graphology but it seems to be much less of an exact science and any analysis is more of a best guess into someones personality or mood. Considering my own handwriting disagrees with two of your examples I figured I'd share.
    so you didn't understand what I said then about needing to take more than two items into account?

    A graphologist gets paid a LOT of money (more than a scientist probably) to study handwriting. It can't be done on the strength of you telling me two bits on a forum. Neither did the two bits I used as examples represent the definitive answer.

    Of course it's not a precise science...but it's a fairly straight forward one. The results tend to speak for themselves.

    I only studied as a hobby so am by no means expert so DO NOT take my examples as the 'evidence' it is bunkum! If you are interested, get yourself a good book.

    At best, I use the techniques as a 'party' trick with pals. Get them to write a list of 'words' and tell them how they 'feel' about each item listed. Words such as 'God, sex, death, love, marriage, (names of people they know) that's it for me.
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    ps. many people don't believe in handwriting analysis, I have no problem with that. It's not one those things that is important really.
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    Personally I have about 5-10 different handwritings that I use consistently (a few different "note-taking"ones, a few different "normal" ones, a few different "homework solving" ones, a few different "neat" ones. If it determines my personality then wouldn't I have a serious personality disorder?

    Secondly if it is affected by mood - which seems like it would be - I'm not a very moody person. I'm in a similar mood throughout the duration of a day - and still have about 5-10 different handwritings. Wouldn't they be more similar, less of them if it determined my personality?
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Fe)male
    Personally I have about 5-10 different handwritings that I use consistently (a few different "note-taking"ones, a few different "normal" ones, a few different "homework solving" ones, a few different "neat" ones. If it determines my personality then wouldn't I have a serious personality disorder?

    Secondly if it is affected by mood - which seems like it would be - I'm not a very moody person. I'm in a similar mood throughout the duration of a day - and still have about 5-10 different handwritings. Wouldn't they be more similar, less of them if it determined my personality?
    I guarantee to a graphologist your handwriting styles are not nearly as different as you yourself imagine they are. Having not studied graphology you have zero idea what to look for re 'differences'. It is perfectly normal for handwriting to alter slightly.

    I have 'two apparantly distinct styles'. One for clarity and one for me which noone can read, but for a grapholigist, the illegible one is merely a more spidery, abbreviated relxed form of the clear one.

    Graphologists are used in fraud prevention and they can tell a genuine signature from a fraudulent copy but for you, they would probably look identical.

    It's like asking me to debate forensic science . I haven't studied it, so me saying it's 'bumpkin' is erm...not wise.
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    I suppose it's possible to compare two pieces of handwriting and analyse whether they were made by the same person or not. But to determine someone's health based on his/her writing style? Sure you can see if someone has parkinson or not, but I'd be surprised if it would get you any further than that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon
    I suppose it's possible to compare two pieces of handwriting and analyse whether they were made by the same person or not. But to determine someone's health based on his/her writing style? Sure you can see if someone has parkinson or not, but I'd be surprised if it would get you any further than that.

    now allow me refute the theory of relativity

    'I doubt it's real.'

    My argument is based upon............

    Do you see what's happenning here?

    You would need to study the science to understand and attempt to refute it. Study it, then refute it.

    In the meantime I'll see if I can find a useful link.

    Meanwhile, you can also determine many health conditions by merely examining the eyes. That is also science. Opthalmologists know more than most Doctors about the true state of your health.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    so you didn't understand what I said then about needing to take more than two items into account?

    A graphologist gets paid a LOT of money (more than a scientist probably) to study handwriting. It can't be done on the strength of you telling me two bits on a forum. Neither did the two bits I used as examples represent the definitive answer.

    Of course it's not a precise science...but it's a fairly straight forward one. The results tend to speak for themselves.
    I did read what you said and it does only make sense to take many things into account. In terms of forgery I think a handwriting analysis is very reliable when done correctly.

    In terms of an analysis to determine someone's personality/traits I'm just somewhat more skeptical. I don't think its completely bogus. If it can be used to say get a better idea about who may have written a note left by a killer (clearly I've seen too much CSI) then I say go for it. However, to me it just seems like its a best guess which may be right the majority of the time but still has a significant chance of being wrong.

    I don't know how accurate it is and it may well be a lot more accurate than I'd of thought. I haven't studied it so maybe its just that I've heard too many of those 'party trick' type analysis and a lot of the time they are wrong when I look at my own handwriting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supernothing
    I haven't studied it so maybe its just that I've heard too many of those 'party trick' type analysis and a lot of the time they are wrong when I look at my own handwriting.

    that if you ask your best friend to describe your personality you will decide it is wrong!

    How we see ourselves and how others see us is entirely different. Thus you may well never agree with anything said or written about you. Doesn't mean it's not true!
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    Did someone delete a post of mine from here?

    I went into detail about how MANY health problems effect body movement and thus handwriting which is dependant upon control/balance and co-ordination etc.


    Where did it go?
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  17. #16  
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    So called graphology is complete and utter bunk. Not a single empirical study done on the claims of graphology reveal any predictive power other than chance.

    I've a text somewhere that cites the studies conducted and I'll dig this up to post here later.
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinWalker
    So called graphology is complete and utter bunk. Not a single empirical study done on the claims of graphology reveal any predictive power other than chance.

    I've a text somewhere that cites the studies conducted and I'll dig this up to post here later.

    You can read all the rebuttals you like. If you have not studied it, have not tried it, then you really have no way of knowing.

    Forensic science can be contradictory too. The pro's debate the finer details. But for someone like me with zero knowledge of the method of forensic science, shedding an opinion either way would be 'irrelevant'.

    Here's an unbiased link you'll like.
    http://www.straightdope.com/columns/030418.html

    last paragraph

    "Prosecutors scrambling to find scientific validation for handwriting analysis last year touted a study by Sargur Srihari, a professor of computer science at the State University of New York at Buffalo. Srihari subjected 1,500 writing samples to computer analysis. Conclusion: In 96 percent of cases, the writer of a sample could be positively identified based on quantitative features of his handwriting such as letter dimensions and pen pressure. Skeptics objected that lab results using a computer prove nothing about what a human can do in the real world, and who can argue? If expert testimony is going to send people up the river, it better be more than some mope's prejudices dressed up as science. "

    I also would not like to see handwriting used to convict someone!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I would only ever wish it to be used as a parlour trick. Despite my belief it's fairly accurate in the hands of a highly trained individual it is not 100% fool proof!
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  19. #18  
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    My handwriting is like spaghetti. It is very hard to tell what it says. If you have legible writing or the writing style you have is known well by others, then it is reliable. Would you write with your writing slants to a police station to report a murder?
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  20. #19  
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    Sad to say my handwriting is not even readable by myself at times.
    Stumble on through life.
    Feel free to correct any false information, which unknown to me, may be included in my posts. (also - let this be a disclaimer)
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  21. #20  
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    If I posted a picture of some of my handwriting, would you interpret it? Then I could tell everyone if you were accurate.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    If I posted a picture of some of my handwriting, would you interpret it? Then I could tell everyone if you were accurate.
    I am not a qualified graphologist so it would be an inadequate test of the science of graphology.

    you can send me your 'path' reading though.

    Go to www.dreamsanalysed.blogspot.com and click on the link that details what you need to do.
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Quote Originally Posted by SkinWalker
    So called graphology is complete and utter bunk. Not a single empirical study done on the claims of graphology reveal any predictive power other than chance.

    I've a text somewhere that cites the studies conducted and I'll dig this up to post here later.
    You can read all the rebuttals you like. If you have not studied it, have not tried it, then you really have no way of knowing.
    I'm sorry but this is not a scientific way of thinking. When rebuttals are incorrect or incomplete then they can be discarded, but you can't discard beforehand the possibility that a rebuttal is actually accurate.

    This argument is used quite often, for example it is sometimes said that atheists would become theists if only they gave religion a chance and really experienced it. But this is not helpful, these statements are impossible to falsify and therefore scientifically unusable.

    Graphology should easily be falsifiable: let a great number of people use graphology to make predictions and check how often they are right: are they not right significantly more often than 50% (or significantly more often than a control group who just guesses) then anyone, whether they studied graphology themselves or not, can use this fact to discard graphology.

    Skinwalker, please post the research you mentioned.
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon
    I'm sorry but this is not a scientific way of thinking. When rebuttals are incorrect or incomplete then they can be discarded, but you can't discard beforehand the possibility that a rebuttal is actually accurate.
    I guarrantee that any rebuttal study is flawed in either expectation or design.

    It is 100% impossible to study scientifically as the data is reliant upon anecdotal evidence. Ie the honesty and self awareness of the person whose writing is being analysed. Good things people will accept, negative less so.

    For the same reason it can't be trusted to be accurate of course.

    I would only use it as a parlour trick in familiar company as the people in the group KNOW (well enough) if you're on the ball about one of their friends, regardless of the friend accepting it or not.

    I suppose if accurate health details were ascertained (where they existed and affect handwriting) that would be a good measure of something.

    But as for a study that determines accuracy based on what can only be 'feedback' from the writer, then that is not really 'good science' is it. Anecdotal.....

    But bring out the study..
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  25. #24  
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    Your arguments here are nonsense. We have a cornucopia of proven tests for assessing the 'character' of people. It is my understanding that the determinations of graphology have been compared with these tests and found wanting. End of story..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Your arguments here are nonsense. We have a cornucopia of proven tests for assessing the 'character' of people. It is my understanding that the determinations of graphology have been compared with these tests and found wanting. End of story..

    Ophiolite, not once have I said that graphology beats all other forms of testing character hands down in fact not a single comparison has been made between graphology and other testing methods (as memory serves).

    I have mentioned it's merits as a stand alone only.

    so two questions:

    1. Where are the soruces that 'rubbish' (if that is what you are implyng) graphology and

    2. What are these other more effective systems...as I would be interested to know of them, not because I wish to compare them. I am not qualified to do so.
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  27. #26  
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    Second question first. There are many tests used by psychologists to assess personality. These provide results that match the past experience/behaviour of individuals and deliver good predictions of their future success. I cannot readily give you sources for these, but I have used them in the past. In a former company we employed them to reduce attrition rate in employees. (That was a double edged sword,as w e found that the employees who quite were also some of the more imaginative, so in getting ones who stayed the distance we wound up with boring individuals. The point is the assessments were spot on.)

    Again, I know of the refutation of graphology only third or fourth hand, via a couple of documentary features several years ago. I filed away the information, but not the origin.
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  28. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Second question first. There are many tests used by psychologists to assess personality. These provide results that match the past experience/behaviour of individuals and deliver good predictions of their future success. I cannot readily give you sources for these, but I have used them in the past. In a former company we employed them to reduce attrition rate in employees. (That was a double edged sword,as w e found that the employees who quite were also some of the more imaginative, so in getting ones who stayed the distance we wound up with boring individuals. The point is the assessments were spot on.)

    Again, I know of the refutation of graphology only third or fourth hand, via a couple of documentary features several years ago. I filed away the information, but not the origin.
    I think I know what you mean re the psyhcology tests. I have done a couple myself at work. Not sure how I feel about their accuracy, so I can't compare really.

    I felt the questions were too narrow and I was selecting options that did not fit me but I had to select something. I was not happy with the choice. I forget my exact grievance now. But there was one

    Also I faked my replies to one when I was 18 as I put what I thought reflected the best employee rather than my own personality. Told them what they wanted to hear so to speak.

    Meanwhile I would be fearful of graphology being widely used in workplace (though I did use it myself - a tiny tad -when sifting through applications) mainly because my own handwriting is horrific and I dread to think what it all means. I have never tried to decipher my own.One cannot be objective enough.

    Also it will always be a grey area. I feel it is useful parlour trick.

    I have seen it used for famous people (presidents) and changes noted in signature for example over a period of time and how it was when they
    were a success and how it was when they were a faliure and it is very interesting to see the changes. Similar to how art reflects mood.
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