Thread: Ancient astronauts

Much as I enjoy watching the TV series with huge scepticism, I'm still a little bit aware that such a thing could have happened.
This is the idea the earth could have been visited by aliens in the past who left calling cards in the form of monuments which ancient earthlings with their primitive technology could not possibly have created.
In most cases it probably means that humans did tamper with these at a much later date.
There is no evidence, only speculation.

Pick a couple of books.
The Sky People by Brinsley Trench.
World's in Collision by Velikovsky.
There does seem to be something deeply spiritual here, and yes I know I only have to consult Carl Sagan.

"Could it be possible", that once Mars and Venus once supported intelligent life.
Mars was a blue planet.
Did a large object collide with Jupiter to send Venus nearer to the sun and become uninhabitable?.
https://earthsky.org/space/life-on-v...%20this%20gas.

"Is it possible" that humans are a hybrid of Martian and Venusian DNA?
It wouldn't have been far to go to migrate to Earth.

Whoa, same could be happening now to the uninhabitable earth.

Originally Posted by ox

"Could it be possible", that once Mars and Venus once supported intelligent life.

A stable, life-supporting environment on Mars or Venus would only have existed during their first 0.5-1 billion years or so. After that, they lost their magnetic fields and protection from solar radiation. Difficult to see how advanced life could develop under such limiting conditions. Earth did not experience this fate, and went through a lot of gyrations before complex life arose, and then only appeared after about 4 billion years following Earth's formation.

Once complex life arose on Earth, it took about 500 million years for humans to arise. One is compelled to wonder how long such evolution would have taken on these other planets, assuming they had a limited time for it to appear. Another major aspect would be mass extinctions. They altered the course of evolution on Earth many times, and almost certainly directed the course of evolution leading to man, no matter how chaotic that course was. Similar extinctions would almost certainly have occurred on Mars and Venus, thereby limiting any time frame for advanced species to arise since there would always be that frequent "start-over" period following a mass extinction.

Based on the past history of Mars and Venus, one must wonder if they had enough time, when life might have flourished, to evolve complex, advanced and intelligent life. It seems unlikely, but not impossible.

Originally Posted by ox

Much as I enjoy watching the TV series with huge scepticism, I'm still a little bit aware that such a thing could have happened.
This is the idea the earth could have been visited by aliens in the past who left calling cards in the form of monuments which ancient earthlings with their primitive technology could not possibly have created.
In most cases it probably means that humans did tamper with these at a much later date.
There is no evidence, only speculation.

Pick a couple of books.
The Sky People by Brinsley Trench.
World's in Collision by Velikovsky.
There does seem to be something deeply spiritual here, and yes I know I only have to consult Carl Sagan.

"Could it be possible", that once Mars and Venus once supported intelligent life.
Mars was a blue planet.
Did a large object collide with Jupiter to send Venus nearer to the sun and become uninhabitable?.
https://earthsky.org/space/life-on-v...%20this%20gas.

"Is it possible" that humans are a hybrid of Martian and Venusian DNA?
It wouldn't have been far to go to migrate to Earth.

Whoa, same could be happening now to the uninhabitable earth.

The entire premise of Ancient aliens is very thinly veiled Racism and white supremacy, the majority of "works too advanced" are all tied to cultures that are not white, and often are from cultures doing the exact things that Europeans did

Originally Posted by Double Helix

Based on the past history of Mars and Venus, one must wonder if they had enough time, when life might have flourished, to evolve complex, advanced and intelligent life. It seems unlikely, but not impossible.

Darwinian evolution does not necessarily mean a very slow and painful process. On some planets, potentially fast.
I do assume that on distant star star systems the same processes do take place, but it will still be a battle for survival.
Where do you go to when your planet is in trouble and time is running out? Not light years away to planet earth. Survival could be anywhere within the Goldilocks zone.
Same would be true with AI.
So much speculation that life could have existed on Mars, even a billion years ago until it lost its atmosphere.
If Martians had the technology some could have jumped ship to earth. Primitive humans would recognise them as gods.
Should that be the case then WE are the aliens of so much vivid imagination.

Originally Posted by Paleoichneum

The entire premise of Ancient aliens is very thinly veiled Racism and white supremacy, the majority of "works too advanced" are all tied to cultures that are not white, and often are from cultures doing the exact things that Europeans did

What I know about Erich von Daniken (apart from he writes complete bullshit) is that he spent time in jail for fraud and used to live in Davos Switzerland which is where I lived many moons ago.
And he probably did believe in a superior Aryan race.

Are we now at or close to a stage where we could genetically modify a life form currently existing on Earth and adapt it to begin living on another world? Or upon discovering alien life, be able to genetically modify a life form or two to become let’s say, more intelligent? Suddenly no more swinging from trees…lol

Is it easier to modify the genes of a few life forms or change an alien planet’s environment to promote evolution?

What sort of earthly life form do you consider?
I assume a human as it is the fastest evolver.
Probably need to experiment with other ape forms first.
Maybe that's what happened with my imagined Martians.
In order to live here they would have changed their DNA first.

Originally Posted by ox

What sort of earthly life form do you consider?
I assume a human as it is the fastest evolver.
Probably need to experiment with other ape forms first.
Maybe that's what happened with my imagined Martians.
In order to live here they would have changed their DNA first.

Well hold on a bit….

You really don’t need a whole lot of imagination for this scenario…..Going to try and sound like a Von Daniken and NOT to be taken seriously ….….With the help of Planet Movers Inc. at some point in time could Earth and Mars have had their orbital positions exchanged by aliens? I know the result of that would be catastrophic to life and solar system today yet could an alien intelligence achieve such a goal? Maybe they brought in loads of asteroids as they slowly, meticulously and cautiously exchanged the planets’ places just to keep some balance. The remnants of those asteroids can still be seen today. Unfortunately the aliens couldn’t predict one or two would get away down the road. They probably did this because the real 4th planet then had more to offer than the 3rd including primitive organisms and plenty of frozen water. Just needed a move to the Goldilocks zone.

Originally Posted by ox

Maybe that's what happened with my imagined Martians.
In order to live here they would have changed their DNA first.

How are they going to do this? Does not seem like something that is going to happen on a rapid time scale, at any rate.

The speed of evolution will vary depending largely on environmental pressures, which can change in duration and intensity depending on numerous internal and external factors. For an invading species to transform its genetics to "fit in" to the new planet's life froms would require some serious changes in its fundamental makeup. This certainly has the makings of a sci-fi movie, but not sure about the real probability of this happening. Again, it seems rather unlikely. But makes for a good story nevertheless.

Originally Posted by Double Helix

Originally Posted by ox

Maybe that's what happened with my imagined Martians.
In order to live here they would have changed their DNA first.

How are they going to do this? Does not seem like something that is going to happen on a rapid time scale, at any rate.

The speed of evolution will vary depending largely on environmental pressures, which can change in duration and intensity depending on numerous internal and external factors. For an invading species to transform its genetics to "fit in" to the new planet's life froms would require some serious changes in its fundamental makeup. This certainly has the makings of a sci-fi movie, but not sure about the real probability of this happening. Again, it seems rather unlikely. But makes for a good story nevertheless.

I figure that no matter how many times primitive life forms may have developed on Earth, at least one of them was created already adapted to survive. An adaptation to a particular environment at a moment in Earth’s history without the advantage of evolution. Otherwise, do we contend that inanimate material evolves to become animate? Does abiogenesis include evolution as we know it? Or is it a stroke of luck? Natural trial & error? An alien plan?

Reconsidering humans as aliens led to a search which found that we are, sorta, alien to most life on earth*.

But many would say it is as close as we come to really being aliens. Others might disagree!

We certainly behave much like aliens who don't intend to hang around enjoying the planet. Kind of like a rock band trashing a hotel suite.


"We Are the Aliens"

* https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...re-the-aliens/

Feel like this thread is on fast evolution.
The human dataome is new to me, so I'll need a bit of time to consider.

Just go back to the principle that Jupiter may have been impacted by a large object a billion or so years ago.
We know impacts happened. Late Heavy Bombardment. Earth possibly impacted by the moon when both were in a plastic state.

Once 3 planets in the Goldilocks zone, now only one.
Potentially life on both Mars and Venus.
Mars as a smaller planet with less gravity may have encouraged faster evolution.
An advanced civilisation would have found it easier to blast off into space.
From ancient texts: "There were giants in the Earth". A topic picked up on by Daniken in his 'Was God an Astronaut?' books.
Life forms would have had the potential to grow bigger on Mars. Just like Olympus Mons, sheld volcano on Mars nearly 3 times higher than Everest.

No way could aliens have come from outside our solar system.
Sirius has been mentioned, but consider a massive flaw in the logic.
They were amphibians who went down into the sea at night.
Clearly no more than an ancient solar myth when people believed the earth was flat and the sun dropped under the ocean.

Where is the evidence of Earth landers? Would we even recognise an alien artefact if we saw it?

Originally Posted by ox

Late Heavy Bombardment.

This is likely your biggest problem with developing advanced life on Venus or Mars, and possibly any life at all with these two. The LHB occurred ca. 4.1 to 3.8 bya, and there were certainly heavy impactors going off before and after this with considerable frequency. To be sure, that frequency slowly declined over the billions of years since their formation, but these two planets did not have long periods of stability to evolve life, much less advanced life. Evolution is simply not that fast.

It is almost certain that the appearance of advanced life required an oxygen atmosphere for production of ATP by electron transport (ET). Since ET requires O2 to complete, it is not going to happen without the prior evolution of photosynthesis. Surely it took many millions of years just to get the first replicating organism, and it was feeding on reduced organics. Photosynthesis would take many millions of more years, and then the same for ET. Every time these planets get hit by a large impactor, you will have a reset and have to start all over. The frequency of large impacts vs. time to reach advanced life is likely an insurmountable problem in the early years of Venus and Mars.

This may be exactly why it took so long for advanced life to develop on Earth as it was also being reset in those early years of massive impacts. There seems little chance that advanced life would have arose under such intense conditions. Life is pretty fragile, and any massive impact will wreck it all. It is estimated that an impactor only 2 km wide would be large enough to take out all humans. We can be certain that much larger ones were hitting all these planets quite frequently in the first billion years or so. Just cannot see advanced life on Mars or Venus. You think they pulled this off in the first billion years or so, and during all those massive impactors? An interesting concept, but a hard sell to be sure.

Always a hard sell to explain how life started from inanimate matter, but it did.
Had it not been for a massive impact 65-66 million years ago the dinosaurs would still be kings of this planet.
I wonder if life is a joint venture requiring more than one planet to trigger evolution.
There must also have been an even bigger trigger (oops!) to go to a fully conscious being like a human who will raise questions like this.
Ah well, back we go to those ancient astronauts again.

Ancient astronauts were microbial extremophiles riding a spaceship of rocky debris. That’s for panspermia advocates. If you think evolution of life from the inanimate is tough then how in hell do you accomplish that and at same time be adapted to life on a rock in cold space? IOW a living organism appears from the soup not only adapted to survive a planet’s environment but also survive long voyages on a rock drifting thru space? What if life came about on a chunk of space rock and not a planet, would eliminate one step at least.

Panspermia could be a probe from an alien intelligence, maybe like Oumuamua if it really is a probe.
We have never detected any probe landed on earth, but would we recognise one?

Don't think I can ever buy into alien astronaut visitors / tourists from another star system who helped ancient humans with their building projects then vanished.
If they were after resources for their own planet, plenty more must have been available nearer their home.
How would they survive the journey, even in a generation ship?

I see there are so many books now published about how consciousness developed, and they can't all be right.
Could the universe be conscious of itself might be an interesting topic.

Originally Posted by ox

If they were after resources for their own planet, plenty more must have been available nearer their home.

That certainly seems likely. The most compelling reason for visiting Earth would be to observe and perhaps sample life from another world. That alone would be reason for alien visitation.

Since life is probably relatively rare in the universe, finding a planet with life might be like finding a gold mine - something you don't pass up. But if such planets are rare, the chances of such a visit are equally so.

A favourite topic on the ancient astronauts series is pyramids.
How did these structures exist in Egypt, America etc.
Probably because after many attempts at building upwards it was found that they are more stable.

Pyramids of Giza are also a ground map of the Orion Belt (Orion Mystery).
If they are then they built them the wrong way around.

There is even one on Mars (Mars Mystery), along with a face and a city.
If you look for something, you are likely to find it.

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/ma...ds-nasa-311012

Originally Posted by ox

A favourite topic on the ancient astronauts series is pyramids.
How did these structures exist in Egypt, America etc.
Probably because after many attempts at building upwards it was found that they are more stable.

Pyramids of Giza are also a ground map of the Orion Belt (Orion Mystery).
If they are then they built them the wrong way around.

There is even one on Mars (Mars Mystery), along with a face and a city.
If you look for something, you are likely to find it.

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/ma...ds-nasa-311012

Why not dig a big hole and lower the base blocks, let gravity help and then decide how high above ground level you want to go.

if Aliens come and go then I really hope they record everything so we can have a look at history one day. Then again if they can time travel, might not be necessary. Always thought it would be a good sci-fi story to have astronauts discover an alien recording library of prehistoric/ancient times on Earth, maybe we find this treasure trove on the moon or nearby planet. Sure would clear up a few things.

Several theories of how the pyramids were built, but my favourite is that they were mapped out by geometers and constructed by hard labour.
Workers and not slaves camped nearby and used ropes and hoists. Astrologers may also have had an input.

Alternative given by the cranks helps create the pseudoscience of Pyramidology.
"Several proponents of ancient astronauts claim that the Great Pyramid of Giza was constructed by ET or influenced by them.
According to Erich Von Däniken, the Great Pyramid has advanced numerological properties which could not have been known to the ancient Egyptians and so must have been passed down by ET."

He also plays the numbers game:
"The height of the pyramid of Cheops, multiplied by a thousand million corresponds approximately to the distance between the Earth and the sun."

I can also play the numbers game.
The number of cells in the human body (37 trillion) corresponds approximately (or thereabouts) to the number of stars in the observable universe.

Originally Posted by ox

Several theories of how the pyramids were built, but my favourite is that they were mapped out by geometers and constructed by hard labour.
Workers and not slaves camped nearby and used ropes and hoists. Astrologers may also have had an input.

Alternative given by the cranks helps create the pseudoscience of Pyramidology.
"Several proponents of ancient astronauts claim that the Great Pyramid of Giza was constructed by ET or influenced by them.
According to Erich Von Däniken, the Great Pyramid has advanced numerological properties which could not have been known to the ancient Egyptians and so must have been passed down by ET."

He also plays the numbers game:
"The height of the pyramid of Cheops, multiplied by a thousand million corresponds approximately to the distance between the Earth and the sun."

I can also play the numbers game.
The number of cells in the human body (37 trillion) corresponds approximately (or thereabouts) to the number of stars in the observable universe.

A million years from now someone walking the Earth may stub their toe on the tip of a pyramid. Had read an article some years back about the discovery of graves of people who worked on the construction, many with broken backs. I figure a broken back was the kiss of death for a worker amongst other essential bones.

I wonder if humanity wants an alien visitation just to see how far we can go. At least technologically speaking. Or perhaps to see how primitive we are, but I doubt that.

Edit: In case someone is thinking about it, do you think it would be wise to try and capture aliens or their machinery?

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

In case someone is thinking about it, do you think it would be wise to try and capture aliens or their machinery?

I thought we already had at Roswell.
Ike was supposed to have seen aliens 3 times at air force bases.
Thatcher said about the incident at Rendlesham air force base in Suffolk England "You can't tell the people." Actually she didn't say that but it has gone into folklore
Aliens abducted a whole town in England (Grantham) in the 1960's according to author Anthony Mallin. They didn't really, but it was near another air force base.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...estrial_beings

I wonder if they have ever been at war with each other and they use Earth as a battleground?

https://www.susanblackmore.uk/wp-con...-Paralysis.pdf

Originally Posted by ox

I wonder if they have ever been at war with each other and they use Earth as a battleground?

They’d have to get in line(queue).

Could be the losers of a war became our ancestors and today we very much so exhibit a warrior quality.
Maybe Earth became something like an Australian penal colony

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Maybe Earth became something like an Australian penal colony

'Is it possible' that our planet is some sort of theme park visited by extraterrestrials as part of a grand tour of the galaxy?
A spate of UFO sightings then none could signal the arrival and departure of a group.
We would look like animals in a zoo to them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoo_hypothesis

Originally Posted by ox

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Maybe Earth became something like an Australian penal colony

'Is it possible' that our planet is some sort of theme park visited by extraterrestrials as part of a grand tour of the galaxy?
A spate of UFO sightings then none could signal the arrival and departure of a group.
We would look like animals in a zoo to them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoo_hypothesis

When I watch any nature show or those Safari shows you sometimes see vehicles, aircraft, technical equipment, people etc that are behind the scene. Amazingly the animals for the most part seem to pay little attention to the human presence and go about their business as if we’re not there. Are we like UFOs & ET to them?

According to Alan Morehead in his book The Fatal Impact the Australian aborigines took no notice of explorers' sailing ships close to the shore.
It caused them a big problem when some invaders started to use them as sport.
I guess any alien visitors from long ago would have seen primitive humans that way.

Aliens from any planet that has not been held back by religion, or has suffered more catastrophes than Earth to kick-start evolution would very likely be way advanced of ourselves.
They might have developed technology to assume different quantum states, or for holographic science, or found a way to travel at near light speed.
Reports by pilots include craft moving away at incredible speeds.

Originally Posted by ox

According to Alan Morehead in his book The Fatal Impact the Australian aborigines took no notice of explorers' sailing ships close to the shore.
It caused them a big problem when some invaders started to use them as sport.
I guess any alien visitors from long ago would have seen primitive humans that way.

Aliens from any planet that has not been held back by religion, or has suffered more catastrophes than Earth to kick-start evolution would very likely be way advanced of ourselves.
They might have developed technology to assume different quantum states, or for holographic science, or found a way to travel at near light speed.
Reports by pilots include craft moving away at incredible speeds.

If space aliens in some way made it known to us that we owe it to them for being here then I think we’d all be saying ‘show us proof’. Should proof appear and it’s undeniable then what would we do? Does that qualify as an invasion?

Talk about advanced tech. We were golfing once when I looked up and noticed a Stealth bomber approaching us. See many American planes during the year so it was probably visiting nearby Niagara Falls NY AF Base on other side of Niagara River. It was eerily silent, flying low and cast its shadow upon us while we’re on the green. I remarked to my buddies that this thing could probably lay waste to the golf course in a matter of seconds whereupon one of my buddies said it could probably destroy the municipality in the same amount of time. Imagine what advanced alien tech might do but if they have it and want the Earth that badly then why not use it?

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

If space aliens in some way made it known to us that we owe it to them for being here then I think we’d all be saying ‘show us proof’. Should proof appear and it’s undeniable then what would we do?
Does that qualify as an invasion?
Talk about advanced tech. We were golfing once when I looked up and noticed a Stealth bomber

I like the idea of a stealth invasion.
How could the Egyptians have built the pyramids, the French the Eiffel Tower, the Americans the Empire State Building without help from a higher power?
'Could it be' history's biggest secret?

Getting back to the zoo hypothesis….. back on our zookeeper’s planet do you think there are alien groups protesting the fact we are a zoo? Or are there groups advocating interfering with the animals if only to stop us from destroying the zoo they’ve managed for centuries or end some really really big fights aka war? Could be other groups pushing the sharing of tech or others who fear such sharing would end in their lives being disrupted by warlike humans?

Is there a laboratory hypothesis and we are the Lab rats?

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Is there a laboratory hypothesis and we are the Lab rats?

I doubt it because lab rats don't last long.
However the human infestation of the planet is a bit like rat infestation in the wild.
Most die when their food supply runs out.
But humans have already outgrown their natural food supply and have to rely on artificial food production.