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  1. #1 Earth 
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    I have recently become one of those people who question the globe earth we are told we live on, what first got me to even go near the topic was when it was pointed out to me that oceans like lakes and any other amount of water, can not bend around a solid object. Also the idea if gravity doesn't seem to be possible. If gravity is a force then there has to be something behind it right? all force needs a pressure? also the fact that gas cannot sit alongside a supposed vacuum right? Any thought?

    I'm not claiming the Earth to be flat or anything else, I just can't see how the globe can work as we are told. thanks


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  3. #2  
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    I don't know where you got the idea that water cannot "bend" around a solid object. It's fluid and will take whatever shape it needs to under the circumstances it finds itself. If it finds itself in an environment where everything is pulled towards a central point, it will naturally form a spherical surface. Gravity is due to the fact that all matter is attracted to other matter and tends to clump together. This attraction is not very very strong ( when compared to the similar attraction between magnetic poles or electric charges), so it take a large amount of mass clumped together to produce a significant amount of it. The Earth is such a large amount. Force doesn't need pressure to exist, force is what creates pressure, so you got the cart before the horse there.
    As far as gas and a vacuum. Gas is just a bunch of molecules bouncing around off each other and any surfaces they might hit. A vacuum is just an absence of those molecules. Ergo, if you had two chambers, side by side, one with a gas in it and one with a vacuum, and then removed the wall between them, the molecules in the gas side would "spread out" to fill the vacuum side, but that is just because they now suddenly have more room to bounce around in. The old saw the "nature abhors a vacuum" is not a true statement.

    With the Earth's atmosphere, it is Earth's gravity that keeps the atmosphere from spreading out into the surrounding vacuum. If you throw a ball upwards, it leaves your hand at a good speed, but as it climbs it loses speed fighting gravity until it stops climbing and starts to fall back to the ground. Air molecules are no different. They are zipping around bouncing of each other and sometimes this leads them to climb upward away from the Earth, however as they climb they, just like the ball, lose speed. They can only get so far before they start falling back. On top of this, there are other air molecules that they bump into along the way. They simply don't have enough speed to keep climbing away from the Earth and have to stick around close. ( on occasion, a stray molecule gians enough energy to escape here and there, but this doesn't amount to much, and it would take a very very very long time for it to make any significant difference in the thickness of the atmosphere.

    Just because you personally don't understand how it all works doesn't mean that what "we've been told" is wrong, even if, at first glance, it doesn't seem right. There are many things in the universe that, on the surface, don't seem quite right but upon digging deeper make perfect sense.


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    The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scrutiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone


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  4. #3  
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    Yes that's what we are taught, but it's all language and explanations, none of it is actually provable. Water in our reality needs to be contained, it cannot be contained on the outside of a ball and i can prove that, can you prove to me water can be contained on a ball?
    You talk about forces but you can't show any practical examples, is gravity a pulling force? all pulling forces need a pressure so where does the pressure come from? , how is it science with no practical examples? it's theory isn't it? Gas also needs to be contained, no invisible force can hold gas and this is also something we can prove to ourselves, however language will convince us otherwise, thanks for your reply eh

    I would also add that the ball in the air is not fighting gravity, I would say the ball is heavier than air, so it falls, if a balloon is filled with helium, is that beating gravity?

    Also I think in regards to the size of our supposed planet and the universe, I would say that all the information you have on that is hearsay and a faith in 3rd parties, akin to a religious belief.
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GazLee View Post
    Yes that's what we are taught, but it's all language and explanations, none of it is actually provable. Water in our reality needs to be contained, it cannot be contained on the outside of a ball and i can prove that, can you prove to me water can be contained on a ball?
    So you accept that the Earth is a "ball", that's a start.
    Why, then do people not fall off it?
    Gravity - the exact same thing that keeps water and the atmosphere around.
    You talk about forces but you can't show any practical examples
    You really think that?
    it's theory isn't it?
    It's science.
    Gas also needs to be contained
    Gravity does the "containing".
    no invisible force can hold gas and this is also something we can prove to ourselves
    Go ahead...
    I would also add that the ball in the air is not fighting gravity
    What "ball in the air"?
    I would say the ball is heavier than air, so it falls
    No, it falls because it's less dense than air. Not the same as "heavier".
    Also I think in regards to the size of our supposed planet and the universe, I would say that all the information you have on that is hearsay and a faith in 3rd parties, akin to a religious belief.
    You can say it, but you'd be entirely wrong. Ignorance of the facts doesn't justify your "conclusion" that it's hearsay/ faith/ religious belief.
    Last edited by Dywyddyr; July 2nd, 2019 at 04:04 AM.
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  6. #5  
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    I don't accept anything but provable facts, there is no proof we live on a ball.
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  7. #6  
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    Moved to Pseudoscience...
    So much for the lie in the first post, and it's evident that you don't recognise (or, possibly, understand) "provable facts".
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    Why are you calling me a liar? why the aggression?
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  9. #8  
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    Give me one fact that proves Earth is a ball.
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GazLee View Post
    Why are you calling me a liar?
    It was you who posted "I'm not claiming the Earth to be flat or anything else" and it was also you who posted "there is no proof we live on a ball".
    why the aggression?
    There was no aggression.
    Quote Originally Posted by GazLee View Post
    Give me one fact that proves Earth is a ball.
    The way ships come into/ go out of sight.
    The shadow of Earth on the Moon.
    The fact that distance to the horizon increases with altitude.
    Eratosthenes' experiment. Etc. Etc.
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  11. #10  
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    The OP is obviously just the latest loony...
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    The OP is obviously just the latest loony...
    Can't be a proper loony since the moon cannot be definitively shown to be round if it is a satellite of the Earth.

    Well maybe ,since there is no water there.
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GazLee View Post
    Why are you calling me a liar?
    It was you who posted "I'm not claiming the Earth to be flat or anything else" and it was also you who posted "there is no proof we live on a ball".
    why the aggression?
    There was no aggression.
    Quote Originally Posted by GazLee View Post
    Give me one fact that proves Earth is a ball.
    The way ships come into/ go out of sight.
    The shadow of Earth on the Moon.
    The fact that distance to the horizon increases with altitude.
    Eratosthenes' experiment. Etc. Etc.

    Didn't we have a nutcase (or rather troll, I should say, as it became obvious it was all an elaborate wind-up) a couple of years ago, that had this same schtick?

    I seem to remember taking his side by pointing out that the Earth can't be a globe because, if it were, then people in Australia would be upside down and I've been there and I can tell you they're the right way up.
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    So i'm a liar and a loony? is this how you treat people who ask questions of science? ok for one looking up at the sky will never give you any indication of what you are standing on, not the size or the shape.
    Ships going "over the horizon" is down to perspective, lie down on a long footpath and watch someone walking away from you, you will notice that their appear to sink into the path, this is perspective.

    Claiming a shadow on the moon is coming from what is under our feet is pseudoscience, looking up does not tell you what is down.

    I'm not a liar because I do not claim the Earth to be flat or anything else, i have no idea what earth is or isn't because I have never seen it with my own eyes. I am questioning the proof of the globe.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GazLee View Post
    So i'm a liar and a loony? is this how you treat people who ask questions of science? ok for one looking up at the sky will never give you any indication of what you are standing on, not the size or the shape.
    Ships going "over the horizon" is down to perspective, lie down on a long footpath and watch someone walking away from you, you will notice that their appear to sink into the path, this is perspective.

    Claiming a shadow on the moon is coming from what is under our feet is pseudoscience, looking up does not tell you what is down.

    I'm not a liar because I do not claim the Earth to be flat or anything else, i have no idea what earth is or isn't because I have never seen it with my own eyes. I am questioning the proof of the globe.
    No, this latest post of yours tends to support my provisional diagnosis, which is that you're neither but a troll who likes to wind people up. I think we may have seen you before.
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GazLee View Post
    So i'm a liar and a loony? is this how you treat people who ask questions of science? ok for one looking up at the sky will never give you any indication of what you are standing on, not the size or the shape.
    Ships going "over the horizon" is down to perspective, lie down on a long footpath and watch someone walking away from you, you will notice that their appear to sink into the path, this is perspective.

    Claiming a shadow on the moon is coming from what is under our feet is pseudoscience, looking up does not tell you what is down.

    I'm not a liar because I do not claim the Earth to be flat or anything else, i have no idea what earth is or isn't because I have never seen it with my own eyes. I am questioning the proof of the globe.
    You understand that is not evidence that the eather is not a globe. Also its been known to be a "globe" for literally millennia, so I have to ask what exactly happened recently that makes you think otherwise?

    Ps are you asserting that every person that has been in space is lying?
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    No this is my first visit, are you afraid of people asking questions? I'm just trying t find answers and I'm actually very surprised at your responses. Prove to yourself you live on a spinning ball, what is your number one scientific proof please.
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GazLee View Post
    So i'm a liar and a loony? is this how you treat people who ask questions of science? ok for one looking up at the sky will never give you any indication of what you are standing on, not the size or the shape.
    Ships going "over the horizon" is down to perspective, lie down on a long footpath and watch someone walking away from you, you will notice that their appear to sink into the path, this is perspective.

    Claiming a shadow on the moon is coming from what is under our feet is pseudoscience, looking up does not tell you what is down.

    I'm not a liar because I do not claim the Earth to be flat or anything else, i have no idea what earth is or isn't because I have never seen it with my own eyes. I am questioning the proof of the globe.
    You understand that is not evidence that the eather is not a globe. Also its been known to be a "globe" for literally millennia, so I have to ask what exactly happened recently that makes you think otherwise?

    Ps are you asserting that every person that has been in space is lying?
    Lots of things have been "known" for centuries that we don't believe anymore, we live now in 2019, forget the past and try proving the globe to yourself.

    Every person who has been to space is an official government person, you believe these people have been to space and you believe the government are not capable of covering this up, all beliefs and faith. I'm not trying to be a troll i'm just trying to understand all this.
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  19. #18  
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    evidence and proofs have been given, you have refused them with 0 data to support that refusal
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GazLee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GazLee View Post
    So i'm a liar and a loony? is this how you treat people who ask questions of science? ok for one looking up at the sky will never give you any indication of what you are standing on, not the size or the shape.
    Ships going "over the horizon" is down to perspective, lie down on a long footpath and watch someone walking away from you, you will notice that their appear to sink into the path, this is perspective.

    Claiming a shadow on the moon is coming from what is under our feet is pseudoscience, looking up does not tell you what is down.

    I'm not a liar because I do not claim the Earth to be flat or anything else, i have no idea what earth is or isn't because I have never seen it with my own eyes. I am questioning the proof of the globe.
    You understand that is not evidence that the eather is not a globe. Also its been known to be a "globe" for literally millennia, so I have to ask what exactly happened recently that makes you think otherwise?

    Ps are you asserting that every person that has been in space is lying?
    Lots of things have been "known" for centuries that we don't believe anymore, we live now in 2019, forget the past and try proving the globe to yourself.
    We are waiting for you to supply the requested data that you assert changed your mind,
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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    What proof? all you have done is try to explain reality, reality does not need to be explained, reality is what it is and every man woman and child knows what is real and what isn't, well kids are actually lied to about many things. This is the very definition of pseudoscience.
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GazLee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GazLee View Post
    So i'm a liar and a loony? is this how you treat people who ask questions of science? ok for one looking up at the sky will never give you any indication of what you are standing on, not the size or the shape.
    Ships going "over the horizon" is down to perspective, lie down on a long footpath and watch someone walking away from you, you will notice that their appear to sink into the path, this is perspective.

    Claiming a shadow on the moon is coming from what is under our feet is pseudoscience, looking up does not tell you what is down.

    I'm not a liar because I do not claim the Earth to be flat or anything else, i have no idea what earth is or isn't because I have never seen it with my own eyes. I am questioning the proof of the globe.
    You understand that is not evidence that the eather is not a globe. Also its been known to be a "globe" for literally millennia, so I have to ask what exactly happened recently that makes you think otherwise?

    Ps are you asserting that every person that has been in space is lying?
    Lots of things have been "known" for centuries that we don't believe anymore, we live now in 2019, forget the past and try proving the globe to yourself.
    We are waiting for you to supply the requested data that you assert changed your mind,
    I haven't changed my mind, i'm looking for evidence of the globe I was told and am still being told everyday that I live on.
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  23. #22  
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    We are still waiting for your evidence that the earth is no round....
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GazLee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GazLee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GazLee View Post
    So i'm a liar and a loony? is this how you treat people who ask questions of science? ok for one looking up at the sky will never give you any indication of what you are standing on, not the size or the shape.
    Ships going "over the horizon" is down to perspective, lie down on a long footpath and watch someone walking away from you, you will notice that their appear to sink into the path, this is perspective.

    Claiming a shadow on the moon is coming from what is under our feet is pseudoscience, looking up does not tell you what is down.

    I'm not a liar because I do not claim the Earth to be flat or anything else, i have no idea what earth is or isn't because I have never seen it with my own eyes. I am questioning the proof of the globe.
    You understand that is not evidence that the eather is not a globe. Also its been known to be a "globe" for literally millennia, so I have to ask what exactly happened recently that makes you think otherwise?

    Ps are you asserting that every person that has been in space is lying?
    Lots of things have been "known" for centuries that we don't believe anymore, we live now in 2019, forget the past and try proving the globe to yourself.
    We are waiting for you to supply the requested data that you assert changed your mind,
    I haven't changed my mind, i'm looking for evidence of the globe I was told and am still being told everyday that I live on.
    Ps your incredulity is not evidence. The onus is on you to show empirical evidence that earth is anything other then a sphere
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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    I was told when i was a kid that earth is ball, now as an adult you're telling me to prove the earth is not a ball or shut up? well no i think the claim that i live on a ball needs to be proven to me. You don't tell me you have a dinosaur in your garden and then tell me to disprove it or else its true do you? I'm not trying t be a troll or ruffle any feathers, i'm just trying to get answers.

    Have you ever seen the curve of the earth? why is the word "horizon" formed from the word horizontal if it curves? Why does earth rise to eye level no matter how high you go up? anything that leaves a sphere should be moving away fromm the sphere and the horizon should not rise at all. In our reality we can all see that a ball can not hold water to its surface, water needs to be contained this is our proven everyda reality. Science using maths and language and no actual evidence will convince us that our reality is something else.
    Last edited by GazLee; July 2nd, 2019 at 11:43 AM.
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    You understand that is not evidence that the eather is not a globe. Also its been known to be a "globe" for literally millennia, so I have to ask what exactly happened recently that makes you think otherwise?

    Ps are you asserting that every person that has been in space is lying?
    What do you think?
    http://www.thescienceforum.com/trash...ure-water.html
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  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GazLee View Post
    I was told when i was a kid that earth is ball, now as an adult you're telling me to prove the earth is not a ball or shut up? well no i think the claim that i live on a ball needs to be proven to me. You don't tell me you have a dinosaur in your garden and then tell me to disprove it or else its true do you? I'm not trying t be a troll or ruffle any feathers, i'm just trying to get answers.

    Have you ever seen the curve of the earth? why is the word "horizon" formed from the word horizontal if it curves? Why does earth rise to eye level no matter how high you go up? anything that leaves a sphere should be moving away fromm the sphere and the horizon should not rise at all. In our reality we can all see that a ball can not hold water to its surface, water needs to be contained this is our proven everyda reality. Science using maths and language and no actual evidence will convince us that our reality is something else.
    The earth rises to eye level no matter how high you go? No it doesnt.

    So far all youve done is be incredulous, with no actual rational reason to back it.

    Or are you saying that gps is a lie?

    ( looks outside, sees seagulls. Yes there are dinosaurs in my work parking lot thank you very much)
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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    The earth rises to eye level no matter how high you go? No it doesnt. A.There is not one video showing earth's horizon going lower, not that video is proof of anything but still.

    So far all youve done is be incredulous, with no actual rational reason to back it. A. I'm looking for answers to my questions, i thought this would be a good place to start. I'm not getting any answers i'm just getting explanations and abuse which is quite a surprise i must say.

    Or are you saying that gps is a lie? A. No but i will say that there is no evidence for satelites

    ( looks outside, sees seagulls. Yes there are dinosaurs in my work parking lot thank you very much)[/QUOTE]

    What i will say is that all the "evidence" you have put forward is not scientific in anyway, explanations, assumptions and 3rd party info is not science.
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    You understand that is not evidence that the eather is not a globe. Also its been known to be a "globe" for literally millennia, so I have to ask what exactly happened recently that makes you think otherwise?

    Ps are you asserting that every person that has been in space is lying?
    What do you think?
    http://www.thescienceforum.com/trash...ure-water.html
    There was also this thread elsewhere that I remember.

    https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/...-lake-balaton/
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  30. #29  
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    3rd party is not science? Have you actually taken time to read any peer reviewed papers? The majority of an average papaer is talking about what others papers said.

    You are demanding someone dump you into orbit before you will MAYBE accept that the earth is round.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GazLee View Post
    why is the word "horizon" formed from the word horizontal if it curves?
    Wrong way round. Horizontal is a derivative of horizon. And the word horizon derives from the Greek "limiting circle".
    Why does earth rise to eye level no matter how high you go up?
    False claim.
    In our reality we can all see that a ball can not hold water to its surface, water needs to be contained this is our proven everyda reality.
    Repeated false claim.
    Science using maths and language and no actual evidence will convince us that our reality is something else.
    But the problem for you is that science does use "actual evidence".
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    Would you accept words and pictures as scientific proof of our reality?
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    If I have never seen something how can i be 100% sure of its authenticity? all the words numbers and pictures in the world will never trump experiencing rock solid reality.

    One can read all the books and watch all the videos and be taught by the best scientists, but if you have not experienced it, then you do not know it and can never know it, that is just the way it is. All you will have is a belief and a faith in the words of others just like any reilgion or cult, and the fact you have put my posts in the "pseudoscience" section is ironic as its pseudoscience that you are bringing to the discussion, all I want is some hard solid proof this earth is what I was told it is at aged 4 1/2.
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  34. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GazLee View Post
    If I have never seen something how can i be 100% sure of its authenticity?
    It works the other way too: just because you've seen something doesn't mean that what you thought you saw is what it actually was.
    One can read all the books and watch all the videos and be taught by the best scientists
    Except that being taught involves repeating many of the experiments and confirming for yourself that what is said is actually so.
    Thus when it comes to things that you can't check personally you know that the claims are built on a solid and tested foundation.
    All you will have is a belief and a faith just like any reilgion or cult.
    And... wrong.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  35. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GazLee View Post
    I would say the ball is heavier than air, so it falls,
    Heavier implies weight. What gives the ball weight?
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  36. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GazLee View Post
    Yes that's what we are taught, but it's all language and explanations, none of it is actually provable. Water in our reality needs to be contained, it cannot be contained on the outside of a ball and i can prove that, can you prove to me water can be contained on a ball?
    You talk about forces but you can't show any practical examples, is gravity a pulling force? all pulling forces need a pressure so where does the pressure come from? , how is it science with no practical examples? it's theory isn't it? Gas also needs to be contained, no invisible force can hold gas and this is also something we can prove to ourselves, however language will convince us otherwise, thanks for your reply eh

    I would also add that the ball in the air is not fighting gravity, I would say the ball is heavier than air, so it falls, if a balloon is filled with helium, is that beating gravity?

    Also I think in regards to the size of our supposed planet and the universe, I would say that all the information you have on that is hearsay and a faith in 3rd parties, akin to a religious belief.
    When I read stuff like this i just think how much it would suck to live your life in a continual daze, unable to tell what is real and what is fantasy. Yuck!
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  37. #36  
    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    Just stop feeding the troll. No one can be this dumb and remember to breathe... He's just trying to wind us up. Best ignored...
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  38. #37  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    I think the dude is trying to say that language can’t explain anything, so one has to experience to prove what’s real. Probably more of a philosophical look combined with only his/her personal observation of the physical world. The dilemma s/he created is a Catch 22, you need language to explain but you can’t use it to explain. Only personal experience matters.

    While I was reading the posts I couldn’t help but wonder if somebody just had a paper rejected. I’ve never heard anyone argue before using a method they say can’t be used.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  39. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    Just stop feeding the troll. No one can be this dumb and remember to breathe... He's just trying to wind us up. Best ignored...
    I do think there are a number of posts that fall into this category.
    Not having a real background, in science, I often feel certain posts contain absolute rubbish, but then I usually have doubts about my judgements.
    It seems to me there are individuals, posting on this forum, who are qualified to make these decisions but while strong attacks on some posts are absolutely necessary I do believe the number could be seen as "feeding the troll".
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