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Thread: How might we detect alien life?

  1. #1 How might we detect alien life? 
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    Watching the usual unsubstantiated claims about alien visitation on a news channel last night, made we think how we might detect alien life on exo planets.
    If we had the technology would we send probes or satellites to send back pictures to confirm life?
    Then what would we do with the information?

    https://www.rt.com/news/451581-ufolo...e-petrodollar/

    This guy claims to be a member of SETI.


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    What I can't understand is this....is the gov't keeping ET contact secret because they know aliens to be real and if so, is it because the aliens request it? I like a 3rd option..... no idea.

    Pretty sharp aliens, must be keeping up on global gov't affairs but don't know why they'd want their presence/existence to be kept secret despite the fact they're supposedly flying around out there causing all kinds of excitement. Raises another question...if aliens are real and were announced with direct evidence/demonstration to the general public, would it change the world and if so, in what way?


    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    If what you were watching was purporting visitation, then it wasnt a news channel.....
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    What I can't understand is this....is the gov't keeping ET contact secret because they know aliens to be real and if so, is it because the aliens request it? I like a 3rd option..... no idea.
    In the unlikely event of alien visitation then ET must have known we are here. Did they send probes which self destructed after information was gathered? Might we do the same if alien life was detected?
    What would be the point of visiting another planet if it could be observed at a distance?
    Greer mentions 10 species of aliens have been here. He must be making his living out of all this, like Nick Pope and Timothy Good in the UK.

    Pretty sharp aliens, must be keeping up on global gov't affairs but don't know why they'd want their presence/existence to be kept secret despite the fact they're supposedly flying around out there causing all kinds of excitement. Raises another question...if aliens are real and were announced with direct evidence/demonstration to the general public, would it change the world and if so, in what way?
    According to Greer it would cause global panic and if evidence has been collected then the military comes along with a big wad of money to keep it quiet. Failure to do so results in the individual's elimination. Greer survives because he is well known. In which case why doesn't he come up with hard evidence?
    What would be the point of aliens observing us at close range if they have such advanced technology? If they know we are here from a great distance, they can observe us from a distance.
    There are so many inconsistencies in the stories of alien visitation that we can say with near certainty that aliens have not visited Earth. But it won't stop speculation that any UFO is staffed by aliens or any old pictures with discs in the sky are aliens or the gods were aliens. But it does make money in books and on the TV channels.
    If we did find a likely planet for life in a nearby star system then robots would be the only way to explore given our present knowledge, but the data might take hundreds of years to send back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    if aliens are real and were announced with direct evidence/demonstration to the general public, would it change the world and if so, in what way?
    I think most people already believe it likely there is extraterrestrial life. If by “aliens are real” you mean they have been and are visiting earth regularly, then the obvious major difference would be a belief inversion: The majority would accept their presence here, while a minority would think it a hoax despite the iron clad evidence (think flat earthers, moon landing deniers). I suppose more scientists would think seriously about how the light-speed limit can be side-stepped given that someone had already found a way. Religions would assimilate, reinterpret, and keep right on trucking.
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    Ox said:
    According to Greer it would cause global panic and if evidence has been collected then the military comes along with a big wad of money to keep it quiet. Failure to do so results in the individual's elimination.
    Is this in reference to a potential fate of a whistleblower? Take the money or die if you don't. If that was the case then I really need to find me some direct evidence and let the military see it, all the while making sure I've either kept a copy or hired a good lawyer in the know. I'll take the money every time if the alternative is death and to hell with the general public knowing.

    Vexspits said:
    I suppose more scientists would think seriously about how the light-speed limit can be side-stepped given that someone had already found a way. Religions would assimilate, reinterpret, and keep right on trucking.
    Aren't there those out there making the claim that our technology is only advancing at incredible speed because the aliens are feeding us info or walking amongst us, particularly in research centres...lol. Or maybe it's that captured UFO we supposedly have, giving up its technological secrets.

    I think you're right, religion would put their spin on it once ET confirmed and continue to roll on. Perhaps Marshall Applewhite's Heaven's Gate would enjoy some sort of renaissance .
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Stephen Hawking cautioned against broadcasting our whereabouts to the rest of the Universe. ET might not be friendly.
    What do you suppose he meant by this?

    Meeting an advanced civilisation could be like Native Americans encountering Columbus. That didn't turn out so well
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    What do You thunk he meant, the caution is fairly easy to understand, though you have yet to explain why we would be visited in the first place.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    What do You thunk he meant
    Well at least thunk rhymes with bunk, as in anyone with a brain cell would never believe such nonsense.

    But many Americans do. Nearly half believe in alien visitation, 20% believe they have abducted by aliens.
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b03d0624b0abe4

    Then they export this BS to other parts of the world.
    https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/...-the-pentagon/

    Hawking would prefer us not to broadcast a mathematical sequence like the prime numbers, just in case. Any intelligent aliens out there would know better, but humans are fundamentally stupid.
    Last edited by ox; February 19th, 2019 at 06:48 AM.
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    Reading James Lovelock's latest book Novacene (the coming age to follow on from the anthropocene), I find he does not believe in aliens.
    Some comments he makes:
    Chapter 1 (We Are Alone.) Only literature and films makes us want to believe. Ancient though our cosmos is it's simply not old enough for the staggeringly improbable chain of events required to produce intelligent life to have occurred more than once. Our existence is a freakish one off.
    Chapter 23 (The Conscious Cosmos.) If we give birth to the cyborgs, does it not imply that we really are the first and only intelligence in the universe? Had there been a predecessor like us, the AI they created would long ago have answered Fermi's paradox. If someone like us had appeared before and then proceeded to AI, this new physical intelligence might now dominate the universe. Surely it would be easy for astronomers to detect its presence. It would be everywhere.
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    When man next sets foot on a celestial orb, maybe we accidentally step on an alien or it eats our guy.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    When man next sets foot on a celestial orb, maybe we accidentally step on an alien or it eats our guy.
    Is this a reference to an episode of the Twilight Zone?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Ser...Twilight_Zone)

    Much like we fatten up turkeys for Xmas, the aliens after they arrive here could fatten us up for food for their return home and lure us on board their spaceships by promising us the trip of a lifetime to their planet.
    Human flesh is supposed to taste like pork.
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    NLO's could be some kind of sky animals. I can't find that theory nowhere.
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    Sky animals that we haven't managed to shoot, run over with planes, kill with smog, or simply find dead on the ground? No, the plausibility of that is nill.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BorisBoris View Post
    sky animals.
    The English word is "birds".
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  17. #16  
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    Is this a bird or a flying saucer with intelligent aliens on board?

    https://metro.co.uk/2011/10/10/cornw...l-ible-179642/
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Watching the usual unsubstantiated claims about alien visitation on a news channel last night, made we think how we might detect alien life on exo planets.
    If we had the technology would we send probes or satellites to send back pictures to confirm life?
    Then what would we do with the information?

    https://www.rt.com/news/451581-ufolo...e-petrodollar/

    This guy claims to be a member of SETI.
    He is from CSETI, not SETI. They are two completely different organisations. And that explains his claims. SETI does not concern itself with such things.
    It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
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    Thanks. I'll take your word for that.
    I also acknowledge James Lovelock's argument that intelligent ET is very unlikely to exist. It would have developed AI and there would be evidence (see #10).
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Human flesh is supposed to taste like pork.
    How would an alien know what pork tastes like? Wouldn't capturing pigs for food be easier than humans? I've heard of cattle mutilations but of swine, no. Next time there's a pork rib fest in our area I'm going to look for aliens.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Pigs can weigh up to 1000 pounds and may only live a few years.
    Humans are lighter, longer lived and also likely to be better behaved in space.
    Remember the Morlocks in The Time Machine. They were eating post humans, the Eloi, and not pigs.
    This is a possible Darwinian outcome for human life.
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    To find aliens in deep space we would have to find a medium or technology which can surpass the speed of light.
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    Ox asked -

    Watching the usual unsubstantiated claims about alien visitation on a news channel last night, made we think how we might detect alien life on exo planets.
    If we had the technology would we send probes or satellites to send back pictures to confirm life?
    Then what would we do with the information?
    I expect that detecting atmospheric composition will be the principle way of determining if there is life on exoplanets. Absorption and emission spectra of starlight through atmosphere looks like the most promising means. Detecting atmospheric Oxygen would be strong indication of biological processes equivalent to photosynthesis. Other gases associated with life, like methane and CO2 aren't so obvious, but there are proposals for seeing if those kinds of gases change seasonally, in ways consistent with biology.

    I think sending probes is going to be beyond our capabilities without some extraordinary technological advances.

    What would we do if we know other planets have life? I'm not sure it will have a huge impact; those who accept that life is a likely outcome for (most likely) watery planets will have that confirmed. Those that don't may simply reject the findings. It may spur SETI efforts to new levels; finding a signal, with information content would have much more impact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomeoneil View Post
    To find aliens in deep space we would have to find a medium or technology which can surpass the speed of light.
    Please keep the crap to an absolute minimum.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    Not sure how long it takes a planet to die (lose water, atmosphere, etc). I suppose it varies. If Mars once held life and died slowly then could evolution keep up with the pace? IOW some organisms adapt as conditions worsen, to the point where it finds ways to maintain itself despite the harshness. Perhaps move underground as is often suggested. I'm thinking that scientists must have this in the back of their minds or else they would be discounting finding such life at all. What ingredients are there on Mars to give scientists/biologists hope or pause for concern that the planet may harbour life?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    What ingredients are there on Mars to give scientists/biologists hope or pause for concern that the planet may harbour life?
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...-a8120796.html
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    Taking us back to the OP, one of the things that compounds the problem of looking for life on other planets is that we only know how carbon based life looks, while there is the theoretical possibility of different biochemistry that could yield life, like silicon based life. The problem with that is that we know the sort of conditions and signatures that carbon based life needs or produces, but we don't know what any of the theoretical alternate biochemistry life would need or the signatures it would produce. Of course it's all theoretical, but it is a possibility.
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

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  28. #27  
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    This might be interesting.
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-artificial-intelligence-help-find-alien-intelligence

    Could alien life have evolved using both carbon and silicon?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    This might be interesting.
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-artificial-intelligence-help-find-alien-intelligence

    Could alien life have evolved using both carbon and silicon?
    That was a great article. We definitely have to be aware of the bias that we build into our searching, especially when it comes to searching for intelligent life. But it's even more important in our search for life in general. We could be ignoring whole hosts of planets as being viable for life, just because they're inhospitable to our brand of life. I'm not entirely sold that we will find intelligent life out there (although as the article discussed we have to consider what we determine to be intelligence), but I feel like it's highly probable that there is life elsewhere in the universe.
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Sky animals that we haven't managed to shoot, run over with planes, kill with smog, or simply find dead on the ground? No, the plausibility of that is nill.
    This sounds like a fairy tale, but maybe it's not impossible? https://cryptidz.fandom.com/wiki/Atmospheric_Beasts
    It is said that when atmospheric beasts die, they fall to earth as a gelatinous mass that may resemble a green, purple, gray or iridescent jelly that evaporates into nothing within minutes, hours, or, at the longest, a few days. This is supposed to explain a type of anomalous event, pwdre ser, that puzzled scientists for some time before they decided that pwdre ser did not exist. Pwdre ser is Welsh for "rot from the stars." This phenomena is also known as gelatinous meteorites or star jelly, and reports of it come from around the world, not just from Wales.
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    Christ, they're all out this month.

    What is it? A New Year resolution by every nutcase on the planet to go and infest science forums? Or do the Christmas festivities cause a lot of nutters to go off their meds and trigger episodes?
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    I think its the cold weather keeping all the nutters in their houses and thus on the internet. In the summer they're free to wander around bothering people at museums and historic sites.
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

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    Quote Originally Posted by BorisBoris View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Sky animals that we haven't managed to shoot, run over with planes, kill with smog, or simply find dead on the ground? No, the plausibility of that is nill.
    This sounds like a fairy tale, but maybe it's not impossible? https://cryptidz.fandom.com/wiki/Atmospheric_Beasts
    It is said that when atmospheric beasts die, they fall to earth as a gelatinous mass that may resemble a green, purple, gray or iridescent jelly that evaporates into nothing within minutes, hours, or, at the longest, a few days. This is supposed to explain a type of anomalous event, pwdre ser, that puzzled scientists for some time before they decided that pwdre ser did not exist. Pwdre ser is Welsh for "rot from the stars." This phenomena is also known as gelatinous meteorites or star jelly, and reports of it come from around the world, not just from Wales.
    News flash, rains of purple gel dont happen. We live in the age of cell phone cameras, if shit like that happened it would be posted across the net DAILY and science would already know all about the "sky beasts"
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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  34. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    News flash, rains of purple gel dont happen. We live in the age of cell phone cameras, if shit like that happened it would be posted across the net DAILY and science would already know all about the "sky beasts"
    But Paleo, clearly the reptillian illuminati overlords cover it up! lol
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

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    Yeah, they cover it up with plastic bags. That's why plastic pollution is everywhere! It's not people throwing plastic bags away it's all this covering up I tells ya .. Charging for plastic bags is a way the reptiles reduce their overheads.... The innocent shopper is paying for the cover up!!!!@!!
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    The trees were planted by this guy.

    https://www.planetary.org/space-images/a-face-on-mars
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    What do u think, is this fake or not?
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    More grainy alien footage. Surprise. At first glance it looked like Claymation. Also the alien does a lot of foot dragging/sliding in my estimation. So yes....fake.

    Guess alien must have had all his shots to be walking on rooftops.

    Out of curiosity and for fun, with long torso/arms and short legs, the home planet would more likely be denser or less dense than Earth?

    Edit: Turns out the alien/captive is in a room and looks out window. From Mundo Gump, advertised as fake from 2008 apparently

    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x59ujx
    Last edited by zinjanthropos; January 12th, 2021 at 11:38 AM.
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  40. #39  
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    Quote Originally Posted by BorisBoris View Post
    What do u think, is this fake or not?
    Just out of morbid curiosity, what do you think?
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    A more pertinent question would be "does he think?"...
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  42. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    A more pertinent question would be "does he think?"...
    I have a hypothesis about that, which I am hoping to confirm......
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  43. #42  
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    Other than stupid people what does it feed on?
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  45. #44  
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    Just a thought....If intelligent aliens are like us then Explorers looking for life might:

    Send probes to other planets to explore and send back data. These machines invariably get left behind like trash, are older than Methuselah, possibly still working. The aliens who put them there may have died out or didn’t consider their probes worth recovering. It could be that there’s more chance of finding an alien probe than an actual alien.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Yes ,ancient machinery might be more common than actual existing civilizations.

    I wonder how we could be on the lookout for it.

    Cassette collections on Mars?
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    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    Yes ,ancient machinery might be more common than actual existing civilizations.

    I wonder how we could be on the lookout for it.

    Cassette collections on Mars?
    Too much Guardians of the Galaxy for you

    Found this from SETI, something they’ll be using in case LGM are using Laser communication

    https://seti.org/laserseti
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Just a thought....If intelligent aliens are like us then Explorers looking for life might:

    Send probes to other planets to explore and send back data.
    They now know we're here.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericmac...h=7872d4257229
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Just a thought....If intelligent aliens are like us then Explorers looking for life might:

    Send probes to other planets to explore and send back data.
    They now know we're here.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericmac...h=7872d4257229
    Have read similar accounts. How could you prove intelligence was behind the object? Was there any unusual signals detected from it during its time in our solar system? Do they know the exact path it took and if it appears to be one deliberately avoiding collisions with other objects in SS? Was its path consistent with what one might expect an object to follow considering gravitational fields?
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    This sounds more likely.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/15/s...my-comets.html

    Relax, it's probably outside the Solar System now.
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    Avi Loeb's new book is Extraterrestrial and he still maintains the object is not likely to be natural.
    If it was natural it would have a tail or have evaporated by now.
    He uses the cave man analogy.
    A cave man would still think a cell phone is a rock.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Extraterres...6678339&sr=8-1
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    Probably the first thing we need to do is decide what evidence would we consider to be credible? Can’t please everyone, but there has to be a set of criteria we agree upon (collective, general public “we”) as to what would constitute a valid claim.
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    I think we’ll have more luck finding life on a planet using a submersible craft than surface vehicle. I’m guessing life is more likely to be found in an aqueous environment. Bring SCUBA gear.

    Remember the movie The Abyss where an undersea intelligence existed capable of amazing tech that controlled water molecules. Is it even possible for that type of technology (electronics) to develop underwater? My feeling is that it may be extremely rare for life to exist on dry land and our best odds for finding life are searching water worlds. Not expecting many radio signals from beneath the waves.
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    Is this a fly on the lens, an alien probe, a hoax, or what?

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...on-ufo-report/
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    You would think that every effort would be made to intercept a radio or other type of signal from these ufos that seem to flit about the Earth like a flies at an outdoor cafe. Why waste time with SETI when ET is knocking on the door?
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    I'm also intrigued as to why UFO sightings are accompanied by sightings of pumas, even though no footprints have ever been found.
    Maybe they are just good at covering up their tracks.

    Reminds me to go to Wiltshire and Alton Barnes this month.
    I could even book a guided tour.

    https://stonehengetours.com/weird-wi...ircle-tour.htm
    Last edited by ox; July 12th, 2021 at 08:25 AM.
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    Crop circles latest.

    Crop Circles England : UK Crop Circle Reports and Photos

    Don't those aliens have anything better to do?
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    Many worlds, superposition, quantum entanglement, probabilities, wave function, etc and our luck has us ending up in the one universe where Earth is the only planet with life….no aliens anywhere. Guess we better get out there and start colonizing and terraforming, this universe is all ours Don’t fret though, some other (parallel?)universe is full of life that includes us too. Think we need to consider this possibility?

    Edit: this vid helped me understand quantum entanglement etc immensely. Its 20 min, halfway thru ads to skip, and last minute a plug for vid sponsor. Personally I don't know enough about this subject so I can't vouch for the information here, perhaps a resident expert could evaluate. Not an endorsement for the Many Worlds Theory by me but something I could grasp, a least somewhat.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTXTPe3wahc
    Last edited by zinjanthropos; October 9th, 2021 at 08:09 AM.
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    Just consider, we may be the only intelligent life form in the entire multiverse of an infinite number of universes each containing an infinite number of galaxies.
    Just think of the mining possibilities.
    That's before we even start to think about the opportunities on parallel universes and parallel worlds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Just consider, we may be the only intelligent life form in the entire multiverse of an infinite number of universes each containing an infinite number of galaxies.
    Just think of the mining possibilities.
    That's before we even start to think about the opportunities on parallel universes and parallel worlds.
    Wouldn’t that open the door for a visit from some other universe that takes over, like an invasion of a universe full of black holes. Who says only intelligent life can traverse other universes? Jeez, they’re already here and maybe they’re smart as hell
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Who says only intelligent life can traverse other universes? Jeez, they’re already here and maybe they’re smart as hell
    What do you you suggest?
    Like a trade deal before they eradicate us.

    Stephen Hawking advised us not to broadcast out whereabouts, but we bipedals already have.
    Only a matter of time before we get in their way and mass panic breaks out.
    Governments will collapse and what of us remains will be enslaved.
    Yet the enemy will never be seen, doing their dirty work from a parallel universe.

    But that's enough of conspiracy theories for today.
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    Just thinking, maybe all military and commercial aircraft should be equipped with a device that attempts contact with a UFO when one is spotted. Something as simple as a standard flashing light sequence that lets them know we’re on to them, just to see how the bogey responds.
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    One thing I'm clear about is if a UFO looks like our technology then it is either our technology, or even a natural phenomenon.
    Camera images do not count. Remember the UFO photo that turned out to be a side on seagull.

    Rather they could contact us by announcing their arrival with some sort of peace offering or leave some compelling clue. I don't mean crop circles.
    They shouldn't have anything to fear because their technology would be far superior.
    Any hostility on our part and we'd soon get zapped by their lasers.

    The fact remains there is no evidence for aliens out there or ever having visited this planet.
    What might of interest is that if intelligent alien life does exist they might know better than us and not broadcast their position.
    So any such WOW! signal we pick up is most likely just an oddity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    One thing I'm clear about is if a UFO looks like our technology then it is either our technology, or even a natural phenomenon.
    Camera images do not count. Remember the UFO photo that turned out to be a side on seagull.

    Rather they could contact us by announcing their arrival with some sort of peace offering or leave some compelling clue. I don't mean crop circles.
    They shouldn't have anything to fear because their technology would be far superior.
    Any hostility on our part and we'd soon get zapped by their lasers.

    The fact remains there is no evidence for aliens out there or ever having visited this planet.
    What might of interest is that if intelligent alien life does exist they might know better than us and not broadcast their position.
    So any such WOW! signal we pick up is most likely just an oddity.
    How would you know if those pesky aliens aren't controlling our thoughts?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    How would you know if those pesky aliens aren't controlling our thoughts?
    Do you mean from the Alpha Draconis star system or from underground bases here on earth?
    It would be reasonable to assume they influence politicians first.

    We are the pests as far as 'they' are concerned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    What I can't understand is this....is the gov't keeping ET contact secret because they know aliens to be real and if so, is it because the aliens request it? I like a 3rd option..... no idea.

    Pretty sharp aliens, must be keeping up on global gov't affairs but don't know why they'd want their presence/existence to be kept secret despite the fact they're supposedly flying around out there causing all kinds of excitement. Raises another question...if aliens are real and were announced with direct evidence/demonstration to the general public, would it change the world and if so, in what way?
    The first change is that humanity would know for sure that FTL technology is possible.

    Aliens may not want us to know that.

    Think about Iran or North Korea, and the prospect of them acquiring nukes.

    To aliens, we would be way more primitive than either of those countries, and we already have nukes. But at present we don't have a way to deliver them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Raven View Post
    The first change is that humanity would know for sure that FTL technology is possible.
    FTL?

    Aliens may not want us to know that.
    Why not?

    Think about Iran or North Korea, and the prospect of them acquiring nukes.
    Episode of 'Ancient Aliens' from the future might consider they were helped by aliens.

    To aliens, we would be way more primitive than either of those countries, and we already have nukes. But at present we don't have a way to deliver them.
    Does that imply we are developing nukes to combat aliens, or have aliens already provide assistance.
    Do you believe the rumours about aliens destroying our nukes on the ground?

    There is no evidence for aliens unless it's the biggest cover up in history. It seems to depend where you live.
    https://www.history.co.uk/articles/b...t-alien-threat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomeoneil View Post
    To find aliens in deep space we would have to find a medium or technology which can surpass the speed of light.
    Please keep the crap to an absolute minimum.
    If aliens are visiting us, then they must either be able to go FTL, or be able to get close enough to the speed of light so that time dilation kicks in. Otherwise they would probably run out of energy before they could reach the next star.

    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    What I can't understand is this....is the gov't keeping ET contact secret because they know aliens to be real and if so, is it because the aliens request it? I like a 3rd option..... no idea.

    Pretty sharp aliens, must be keeping up on global gov't affairs but don't know why they'd want their presence/existence to be kept secret despite the fact they're supposedly flying around out there causing all kinds of excitement. Raises another question...if aliens are real and were announced with direct evidence/demonstration to the general public, would it change the world and if so, in what way?
    Look at it from their perspective: The first things humans did after inventing nuclear fission was nuke our own kind.

    They see us splitting atoms, and they might think we are just around the corner from developing FTL also.

    FTL plus nuclear weapons means now we have bombs AND we can deliver them. And that would probably worry them a great deal. We would be the universe's budding little Iran or North Korea.
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    What would we have in common with the (intelligent) aliens we detect? DNA/appearance? Music? Numbers/math? Religion? Must be some common knowledge we would both have regarding technology.

    What could they have that we don't?
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    What would we have in common with the (intelligent) aliens we detect? DNA/appearance? Music? Numbers/math? Religion? Must be some common knowledge we would both have regarding technology.

    What could they have that we don't?
    For starters, we would almost certainly not have the same chemistry. But probably very close.

    Music is a tough call, as would be all of art. Look at human art. It is all over the place. Some of it looks (or sounds) rather alien to me, so cannot make any predictions about art, although one would expect them to have various forms of it.

    Numbers/math is almost certainly something we would have in common since this seems like an absolute requirement for advancing all forms of technology and science. It might be represented in a different fashion, but it would have to mean the same thing or it simply would not work.

    Religion? Will turn that over to ox. since he has notions that some Goddess might be involved in all this somehow.

    Technology is something that would be similar to math - stuff that works and does things for the inventor(s). This is however where a great departure could present itself based simply on time spent with increasing technical capability.

    It took 66 years to go from Kitty Hawk to Tranquility Base on the moon. Seems pretty fast, since that is a major difference. And 66 years before the Wright Brothers, people were enslaved and picking cotton for clothes etc. Here, one can see a major advance from one step to another.

    It has been a little more than 50 years since the Apollo missions and some might wonder if we have advanced as much during these latter years than we did during the jump from the Kitty Hawk to Tranquility Base phase. In some respects yes, but in others, not so much.

    That is where the biggest differences with other aliens might reside. We have only been fooling around with science for about 300 years or so. But if the aliens had even a 100 year start on us, they could have things we could never dream of. So what they might have that we do not could be a great deal of hi-tech stuff. What that might be, one can only make some wild guesses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Helix View Post
    [
    That is where the biggest differences with other aliens might reside. We have only been fooling around with science for about 300 years or so. But if the aliens had even a 100 year start on us, they could have things we could never dream of. So what they might have that we do not could be a great deal of hi-tech stuff. What that might be, one can only make some wild guesses.
    !00 years is nothing. There could be some very advanced intelligences out there that we can only dream of. What they would do with a millions of years head start may be quite astonishing to us, the stuff sci-fi is made of perhaps

    Physically I would think aliens would have to have some manual dexterity, enough move around or make tools. I would wager there's intelligent life in the universe that for whatever reason can't make tools or create the technology necessary to get around the universe.

    If there's intelligent life in an ocean beneath an ice capped water planet, could they still figure things out or produce tech?
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Physically I would think aliens would have to have some manual dexterity, enough [to] move around or make tools. I would wager there's intelligent life in the universe that for whatever reason can't make tools or create the technology necessary to get around the universe.
    Most physical anthropologists believe that evolution of primate intelligence leading to humans really took off following the appearance of full bipedalism. This advance freed the forearms from locomotion and allowed the human hand to develop. This in turn allowed for eye-hand coordination, which then led to advanced tool making.

    The making of tools is not unique to humans, but it is clear that these primates became the masters of this application. Millions of years of tool-making, and eye-hand coordination resulted in progressive evolution of higher brain function. This then promoted evolution of advanced thinking about how to make things work from totally unrelated parts. Composite tools are a complex invention, such as the bow and arrow. As composite tool making advanced, their continuous development likely led to more advanced thinking, not only about tools, but many other things as well.

    Based on these observations, it would seem that the evolution of intelligence for any species anywhere would require "some manual dexterity, enough [to] move around or make tools". It seems highly probable that primitive bodies, without the ability to construct things with advanced appendages, would be unable to the evolve higher thought processes, like those found in humans.

    The appearance of advanced eye-hand coordination was likely the most critical evolutionary step leading to our higher intelligence over other primates.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Helix View Post
    Religion? Will turn that over to ox. since he has notions that some Goddess might be involved in all this somehow.
    Explained elsewhere..

    Episodes of Star Trek might help when Jesus is mentioned.

    Also:
    Spock: Within range of our sensors, there is no life, other than the accountable human residents of this colony beneath the surface. At least, no life as we know it.

    (Usually quoted as 'It's life Jim, but not as we know it.')
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    !00 years is nothing. There could be some very advanced intelligences out there that we can only dream of. What they would do with a millions of years head start may be quite astonishing to us, the stuff sci-fi is made of perhaps

    Physically I would think aliens would have to have some manual dexterity, enough move around or make tools. I would wager there's intelligent life in the universe that for whatever reason can't make tools or create the technology necessary to get around the universe.

    If there's intelligent life in an ocean beneath an ice capped water planet, could they still figure things out or produce tech?
    If you accept that evolution by the process of selection is common on any planet capable of life then you'd need to take into account the evolutionary pressure on intelligent life.
    As an example, humans see poorly in the dark. That's because they didn't need it for hunting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    !00 years is nothing. There could be some very advanced intelligences out there that we can only dream of. What they would do with a millions of years head start may be quite astonishing to us, the stuff sci-fi is made of perhaps

    Physically I would think aliens would have to have some manual dexterity, enough move around or make tools. I would wager there's intelligent life in the universe that for whatever reason can't make tools or create the technology necessary to get around the universe.

    If there's intelligent life in an ocean beneath an ice capped water planet, could they still figure things out or produce tech?
    If you accept that evolution by the process of selection is common on any planet capable of life then you'd need to take into account the evolutionary pressure on intelligent life.
    As an example, humans see poorly in the dark. That's because they didn't need it for hunting.
    Don’t some of the alien sightings involve glow-in-the-dark figures. Should be easy to spot those aliens. Life in the dark waters of an ice capped world would probably have some bio-luminescence. Wonder if possible to get a camera down there and look around some of these worlds?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Don’t some of the alien sightings involve glow-in-the-dark figures.
    Is that alien toys, or where is a reliable reference to supposed aliens ever having visited our planet?

    Should be easy to spot those aliens. Life in the dark waters of an ice capped world would probably have some bio-luminescence. Wonder if possible to get a camera down there and look around some of these worlds?
    Not sure how that could be done.
    The only reference I know to underwater aliens is found in The Sirius Mystery by Robert Temple.
    Apparently the Sirians went below the waves at night. An example of a solar myth if ever there was one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Life in the dark waters of an ice capped world would probably have some bio-luminescence. Wonder if possible to get a camera down there and look around some of these worlds?
    This very issue is being debated at NASA etc. as some believe it is possible that ancient oceans on "frozen" outer moons like Europa and others may have life forms (1).

    As ox noted, it is not clear how we would go about investigating this, but for Europa, there are suggestions (2).

    Earth was likely frozen over at some time before the Cambrian explosion (3), and this did not prevent life from surviving and evolving.

    Octopi are rather intelligent creatures, and this may result from their ability to manipulate objects with their tentacles and excellent vision - which like man, likely gave rise to their large brains. They use tools and exhibit problem-solving, and can figure out how to remove food from a closed jar (4).

    The notion of life on a frozen world is not at all far-fetched, and even intelligent life at that. The extent of evolution depends largely on time and stability of the environment. It certainly seems possible that life which glows may have evolved under the ice of dark, frozen worlds.


    "Europa: A World of Ice, With Potential for Life"

    1. https://europa.nasa.gov/news/33/euro...tial-for-life/


    "A lander on Jupiter's icy moon Europa may have to dig at least 1 foot down to find signs of life"

    2. https://www.space.com/jupiter-moon-e...-life-dig-deep


    3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowball_Earth


    "An Octopus Could Be the Next Model Organism"

    4. https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...odel-organism/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Helix View Post

    Octopi are rather intelligent creatures, and this may result from their ability to manipulate objects with their tentacles and excellent vision - which like man, likely gave rise to their large brains. They use tools and exhibit problem-solving, and can figure out how to remove food from a closed jar.
    BBC News has an interesting story on octopi and their remarkable abilities*. Many who have studied them believe they are sentient. The story is quite curious in that it defines the intelligence of these creatures differently than it does for humans. Certainly a possibility. And could apply to alien intelligence as well. There may be more than one way to skin a cat, so to say.

    And people are eating octopi, which based on this article is not a reasonable activity if they truly are sentient. Perhaps a re-evaluation of this culinary activity is in order. They say a man's best friend is a dog. We might very well find out it is really octopi. But then again, people eat dogs in some places.

    Octopi might not fetch a stick, but would almost certainly prove to be more intellectually stimulating! Which of course means they are certainly not for everyone......


    "The mysterious inner life of the octopus"

    * https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...uses-feel-pain
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    ox
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