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Thread: How might we detect alien life?

  1. #1 How might we detect alien life? 
    ox
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    Watching the usual unsubstantiated claims about alien visitation on a news channel last night, made we think how we might detect alien life on exo planets.
    If we had the technology would we send probes or satellites to send back pictures to confirm life?
    Then what would we do with the information?

    https://www.rt.com/news/451581-ufolo...e-petrodollar/

    This guy claims to be a member of SETI.


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    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    What I can't understand is this....is the gov't keeping ET contact secret because they know aliens to be real and if so, is it because the aliens request it? I like a 3rd option..... no idea.

    Pretty sharp aliens, must be keeping up on global gov't affairs but don't know why they'd want their presence/existence to be kept secret despite the fact they're supposedly flying around out there causing all kinds of excitement. Raises another question...if aliens are real and were announced with direct evidence/demonstration to the general public, would it change the world and if so, in what way?


    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    If what you were watching was purporting visitation, then it wasnt a news channel.....
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    What I can't understand is this....is the gov't keeping ET contact secret because they know aliens to be real and if so, is it because the aliens request it? I like a 3rd option..... no idea.
    In the unlikely event of alien visitation then ET must have known we are here. Did they send probes which self destructed after information was gathered? Might we do the same if alien life was detected?
    What would be the point of visiting another planet if it could be observed at a distance?
    Greer mentions 10 species of aliens have been here. He must be making his living out of all this, like Nick Pope and Timothy Good in the UK.

    Pretty sharp aliens, must be keeping up on global gov't affairs but don't know why they'd want their presence/existence to be kept secret despite the fact they're supposedly flying around out there causing all kinds of excitement. Raises another question...if aliens are real and were announced with direct evidence/demonstration to the general public, would it change the world and if so, in what way?
    According to Greer it would cause global panic and if evidence has been collected then the military comes along with a big wad of money to keep it quiet. Failure to do so results in the individual's elimination. Greer survives because he is well known. In which case why doesn't he come up with hard evidence?
    What would be the point of aliens observing us at close range if they have such advanced technology? If they know we are here from a great distance, they can observe us from a distance.
    There are so many inconsistencies in the stories of alien visitation that we can say with near certainty that aliens have not visited Earth. But it won't stop speculation that any UFO is staffed by aliens or any old pictures with discs in the sky are aliens or the gods were aliens. But it does make money in books and on the TV channels.
    If we did find a likely planet for life in a nearby star system then robots would be the only way to explore given our present knowledge, but the data might take hundreds of years to send back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    if aliens are real and were announced with direct evidence/demonstration to the general public, would it change the world and if so, in what way?
    I think most people already believe it likely there is extraterrestrial life. If by “aliens are real” you mean they have been and are visiting earth regularly, then the obvious major difference would be a belief inversion: The majority would accept their presence here, while a minority would think it a hoax despite the iron clad evidence (think flat earthers, moon landing deniers). I suppose more scientists would think seriously about how the light-speed limit can be side-stepped given that someone had already found a way. Religions would assimilate, reinterpret, and keep right on trucking.
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    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Ox said:
    According to Greer it would cause global panic and if evidence has been collected then the military comes along with a big wad of money to keep it quiet. Failure to do so results in the individual's elimination.
    Is this in reference to a potential fate of a whistleblower? Take the money or die if you don't. If that was the case then I really need to find me some direct evidence and let the military see it, all the while making sure I've either kept a copy or hired a good lawyer in the know. I'll take the money every time if the alternative is death and to hell with the general public knowing.

    Vexspits said:
    I suppose more scientists would think seriously about how the light-speed limit can be side-stepped given that someone had already found a way. Religions would assimilate, reinterpret, and keep right on trucking.
    Aren't there those out there making the claim that our technology is only advancing at incredible speed because the aliens are feeding us info or walking amongst us, particularly in research centres...lol. Or maybe it's that captured UFO we supposedly have, giving up its technological secrets.

    I think you're right, religion would put their spin on it once ET confirmed and continue to roll on. Perhaps Marshall Applewhite's Heaven's Gate would enjoy some sort of renaissance .
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Stephen Hawking cautioned against broadcasting our whereabouts to the rest of the Universe. ET might not be friendly.
    What do you suppose he meant by this?

    Meeting an advanced civilisation could be like Native Americans encountering Columbus. That didn't turn out so well
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    What do You thunk he meant, the caution is fairly easy to understand, though you have yet to explain why we would be visited in the first place.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    What do You thunk he meant
    Well at least thunk rhymes with bunk, as in anyone with a brain cell would never believe such nonsense.

    But many Americans do. Nearly half believe in alien visitation, 20% believe they have abducted by aliens.
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b03d0624b0abe4

    Then they export this BS to other parts of the world.
    https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/...-the-pentagon/

    Hawking would prefer us not to broadcast a mathematical sequence like the prime numbers, just in case. Any intelligent aliens out there would know better, but humans are fundamentally stupid.
    Last edited by ox; February 19th, 2019 at 06:48 AM.
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    Reading James Lovelock's latest book Novacene (the coming age to follow on from the anthropocene), I find he does not believe in aliens.
    Some comments he makes:
    Chapter 1 (We Are Alone.) Only literature and films makes us want to believe. Ancient though our cosmos is it's simply not old enough for the staggeringly improbable chain of events required to produce intelligent life to have occurred more than once. Our existence is a freakish one off.
    Chapter 23 (The Conscious Cosmos.) If we give birth to the cyborgs, does it not imply that we really are the first and only intelligence in the universe? Had there been a predecessor like us, the AI they created would long ago have answered Fermi's paradox. If someone like us had appeared before and then proceeded to AI, this new physical intelligence might now dominate the universe. Surely it would be easy for astronomers to detect its presence. It would be everywhere.
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    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    When man next sets foot on a celestial orb, maybe we accidentally step on an alien or it eats our guy.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    When man next sets foot on a celestial orb, maybe we accidentally step on an alien or it eats our guy.
    Is this a reference to an episode of the Twilight Zone?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Ser...Twilight_Zone)

    Much like we fatten up turkeys for Xmas, the aliens after they arrive here could fatten us up for food for their return home and lure us on board their spaceships by promising us the trip of a lifetime to their planet.
    Human flesh is supposed to taste like pork.
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    NLO's could be some kind of sky animals. I can't find that theory nowhere.
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    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    Sky animals that we haven't managed to shoot, run over with planes, kill with smog, or simply find dead on the ground? No, the plausibility of that is nill.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BorisBoris View Post
    sky animals.
    The English word is "birds".
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  17. #16  
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    Is this a bird or a flying saucer with intelligent aliens on board?

    https://metro.co.uk/2011/10/10/cornw...l-ible-179642/
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Watching the usual unsubstantiated claims about alien visitation on a news channel last night, made we think how we might detect alien life on exo planets.
    If we had the technology would we send probes or satellites to send back pictures to confirm life?
    Then what would we do with the information?

    https://www.rt.com/news/451581-ufolo...e-petrodollar/

    This guy claims to be a member of SETI.
    He is from CSETI, not SETI. They are two completely different organisations. And that explains his claims. SETI does not concern itself with such things.
    It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
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    Thanks. I'll take your word for that.
    I also acknowledge James Lovelock's argument that intelligent ET is very unlikely to exist. It would have developed AI and there would be evidence (see #10).
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Human flesh is supposed to taste like pork.
    How would an alien know what pork tastes like? Wouldn't capturing pigs for food be easier than humans? I've heard of cattle mutilations but of swine, no. Next time there's a pork rib fest in our area I'm going to look for aliens.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Pigs can weigh up to 1000 pounds and may only live a few years.
    Humans are lighter, longer lived and also likely to be better behaved in space.
    Remember the Morlocks in The Time Machine. They were eating post humans, the Eloi, and not pigs.
    This is a possible Darwinian outcome for human life.
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    To find aliens in deep space we would have to find a medium or technology which can surpass the speed of light.
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    Ox asked -

    Watching the usual unsubstantiated claims about alien visitation on a news channel last night, made we think how we might detect alien life on exo planets.
    If we had the technology would we send probes or satellites to send back pictures to confirm life?
    Then what would we do with the information?
    I expect that detecting atmospheric composition will be the principle way of determining if there is life on exoplanets. Absorption and emission spectra of starlight through atmosphere looks like the most promising means. Detecting atmospheric Oxygen would be strong indication of biological processes equivalent to photosynthesis. Other gases associated with life, like methane and CO2 aren't so obvious, but there are proposals for seeing if those kinds of gases change seasonally, in ways consistent with biology.

    I think sending probes is going to be beyond our capabilities without some extraordinary technological advances.

    What would we do if we know other planets have life? I'm not sure it will have a huge impact; those who accept that life is a likely outcome for (most likely) watery planets will have that confirmed. Those that don't may simply reject the findings. It may spur SETI efforts to new levels; finding a signal, with information content would have much more impact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomeoneil View Post
    To find aliens in deep space we would have to find a medium or technology which can surpass the speed of light.
    Please keep the crap to an absolute minimum.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    Not sure how long it takes a planet to die (lose water, atmosphere, etc). I suppose it varies. If Mars once held life and died slowly then could evolution keep up with the pace? IOW some organisms adapt as conditions worsen, to the point where it finds ways to maintain itself despite the harshness. Perhaps move underground as is often suggested. I'm thinking that scientists must have this in the back of their minds or else they would be discounting finding such life at all. What ingredients are there on Mars to give scientists/biologists hope or pause for concern that the planet may harbour life?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    What ingredients are there on Mars to give scientists/biologists hope or pause for concern that the planet may harbour life?
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...-a8120796.html
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  27. #26  
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    Taking us back to the OP, one of the things that compounds the problem of looking for life on other planets is that we only know how carbon based life looks, while there is the theoretical possibility of different biochemistry that could yield life, like silicon based life. The problem with that is that we know the sort of conditions and signatures that carbon based life needs or produces, but we don't know what any of the theoretical alternate biochemistry life would need or the signatures it would produce. Of course it's all theoretical, but it is a possibility.
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

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  28. #27  
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    This might be interesting.
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-artificial-intelligence-help-find-alien-intelligence

    Could alien life have evolved using both carbon and silicon?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    This might be interesting.
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-artificial-intelligence-help-find-alien-intelligence

    Could alien life have evolved using both carbon and silicon?
    That was a great article. We definitely have to be aware of the bias that we build into our searching, especially when it comes to searching for intelligent life. But it's even more important in our search for life in general. We could be ignoring whole hosts of planets as being viable for life, just because they're inhospitable to our brand of life. I'm not entirely sold that we will find intelligent life out there (although as the article discussed we have to consider what we determine to be intelligence), but I feel like it's highly probable that there is life elsewhere in the universe.
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

    "It is easy to kill someone with a slash of a sword. It is hard to be impossible for others to cut down"
    - Yagyu Munenori

    "Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Sky animals that we haven't managed to shoot, run over with planes, kill with smog, or simply find dead on the ground? No, the plausibility of that is nill.
    This sounds like a fairy tale, but maybe it's not impossible? https://cryptidz.fandom.com/wiki/Atmospheric_Beasts
    It is said that when atmospheric beasts die, they fall to earth as a gelatinous mass that may resemble a green, purple, gray or iridescent jelly that evaporates into nothing within minutes, hours, or, at the longest, a few days. This is supposed to explain a type of anomalous event, pwdre ser, that puzzled scientists for some time before they decided that pwdre ser did not exist. Pwdre ser is Welsh for "rot from the stars." This phenomena is also known as gelatinous meteorites or star jelly, and reports of it come from around the world, not just from Wales.
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  31. #30  
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    Christ, they're all out this month.

    What is it? A New Year resolution by every nutcase on the planet to go and infest science forums? Or do the Christmas festivities cause a lot of nutters to go off their meds and trigger episodes?
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  32. #31  
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    I think its the cold weather keeping all the nutters in their houses and thus on the internet. In the summer they're free to wander around bothering people at museums and historic sites.
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

    "It is easy to kill someone with a slash of a sword. It is hard to be impossible for others to cut down"
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    "Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it."
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  33. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by BorisBoris View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Sky animals that we haven't managed to shoot, run over with planes, kill with smog, or simply find dead on the ground? No, the plausibility of that is nill.
    This sounds like a fairy tale, but maybe it's not impossible? https://cryptidz.fandom.com/wiki/Atmospheric_Beasts
    It is said that when atmospheric beasts die, they fall to earth as a gelatinous mass that may resemble a green, purple, gray or iridescent jelly that evaporates into nothing within minutes, hours, or, at the longest, a few days. This is supposed to explain a type of anomalous event, pwdre ser, that puzzled scientists for some time before they decided that pwdre ser did not exist. Pwdre ser is Welsh for "rot from the stars." This phenomena is also known as gelatinous meteorites or star jelly, and reports of it come from around the world, not just from Wales.
    News flash, rains of purple gel dont happen. We live in the age of cell phone cameras, if shit like that happened it would be posted across the net DAILY and science would already know all about the "sky beasts"
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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  34. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    News flash, rains of purple gel dont happen. We live in the age of cell phone cameras, if shit like that happened it would be posted across the net DAILY and science would already know all about the "sky beasts"
    But Paleo, clearly the reptillian illuminati overlords cover it up! lol
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

    "It is easy to kill someone with a slash of a sword. It is hard to be impossible for others to cut down"
    - Yagyu Munenori

    "Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it."
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  35. #34  
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    Yeah, they cover it up with plastic bags. That's why plastic pollution is everywhere! It's not people throwing plastic bags away it's all this covering up I tells ya .. Charging for plastic bags is a way the reptiles reduce their overheads.... The innocent shopper is paying for the cover up!!!!@!!
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