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Thread: More "logical" explanations wanted

  1. #1 More "logical" explanations wanted 
    Forum Professor WVBIG's Avatar
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    Can anyone give me more "logical" explanations for paintings from the middle ages that clearly show spaceships, some piloted, than aliens from other planets?


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    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    Can anyone give me more "logical" explanations for paintings from the middle ages that clearly show spaceships, some piloted, than aliens from other planets?
    No explanation required since the the premise is flawed.


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  4. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    Can anyone give me more "logical" explanations for paintings from the middle ages that clearly show spaceships, some piloted, than aliens from other planets?
    They don't show spaceships. They show things that you think look like spaceships.

    If you give a young kid a piece of paper and have him draw stuff, he will eventually draw stuff that looks like spaceships - even if he's never seen one or heard of one before. That's because they come in a lot of different shapes and sizes, and so many shapes can represent spacecraft. A can with a cone on top? An Apollo CM/SM. A delta wing airplane? That could be a space shuttle. A scribble with a lump in the middle? Pioneer 10. A circle with lines coming off it? Vanguard.
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  5. #4  
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    Dog fight over Nuremberg was clearly a battle between rival Greys for control of the skies over Germany.
    https://www.theepochtimes.com/mediev...61_735667.html

    Or meteor shower. The artists who painted these pictures were paid to do so. They had stomachs like everyone else.
    https://www.google.com/search?safe=s....0.fHOYgviDn5Y
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  6. #5  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    Can anyone give me more "logical" explanations for paintings from the middle ages that clearly show spaceships, some piloted, than aliens from other planets?
    I'll blame the ancients, they started it. Connect some of those bright dots in the night sky, add a little imagination and bingo. Gods, animals and objects proliferate the heavens (no longer just a sky). Then take a look at paintings of saints, madonnas, messiahs etc. Do you think those subject people walked around in real life, should they have existed, with glowing golden rings hovering over their heads?

    Unfortunately for those who believe in mysterious things in the sky/heavens, modern technology is making it impossible to take any new sightings seriously. There is a whole industry on the internet available to anyone who wants to shop a photo/video. From apps to tutorials, ain't nothing stopping it. Even the ground apparition sightings are not going to be reliable. So if we do this now, an all out effort to fool the next guy, whose to say we didn't do the same in the medieval days.
    Last edited by zinjanthropos; September 29th, 2018 at 08:30 AM.
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    Can anyone give me more "logical" explanations for paintings from the middle ages that clearly show spaceships, some piloted, than aliens from other planets?
    Throw away your von Daniken. It's all nonsense.
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  8. #7  
    Forum Freshman Angelo_Maligno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    Can anyone give me more "logical" explanations for paintings from the middle ages that clearly show spaceships, some piloted, than aliens from other planets?
    Those painting from the middle ages showed no pilots of any kind. You're thinking of even older texts and drawings that supposedly show craft piloted by non-human beings. That's besides the point though. Any theory about these "craft" is valid though because we simply don't have enough evidence. As an example I have a theory they could be lifeforms that are adapted to live in space that come down and perhaps feed on rock formations. Perhaps they slowly adapted to vacuum conditions when Mars died and all the life on it had to adapt or die. This might even explain why we lose an unusually high number of probes to Mars as they could have been eaten. The drawings could be an expression of the idea that the ancients also believed they were craft piloted by some being from far away. Art is not always an accurate representation of what is as it's a form of human expression.
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    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelo_Maligno View Post
    Any theory about these "craft" is valid though because we simply don't have enough evidence.
    That would depend on what you mean by "theory" (i.e. in the scientific sense or the casual one).
    Essentially there is - as you stated a "lack of evidence" - to support the alien/ UFO hypothesis. OTOH there are valid theories - based on reading on the associated religious texts etc - to contradict the idea that they are not "craft" or "aliens".

    As an example I have a theory they could be lifeforms that are adapted to live in space that come down and perhaps feed on rock formations.
    What evidence do you have for this theory? (Or did you mean the word in the sense "wild guess"?).

    Perhaps they slowly adapted to vacuum conditions when Mars died and all the life on it had to adapt or die.
    How did they travel from Mars to here?

    This might even explain why we lose an unusually high number of probes to Mars as they could have been eaten.
    Generally, the probes we sent were not made of rock.
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    That would depend on what you mean by "theory" (i.e. in the scientific sense or the casual one).
    Essentially there is - as you stated a "lack of evidence" - to support the alien/ UFO hypothesis. OTOH there are valid theories - based on reading on the associated religious texts etc - to contradict the idea that they are not "craft" or "aliens".
    It's a casual theory. I was just pointing out it has as much merit as the aliens theory though as there are nearly equal amounts of evidence for it.


    What evidence do you have for this theory? (Or did you mean the word in the sense "wild guess"?).
    Very well speculation then. I have trouble with language because I'm schizophrenic. Stop bullying me you jerk.

    How did they travel from Mars to here?
    That would another topic of speculation.


    Generally, the probes we sent were not made of rock.
    and generally metal is found in rock.
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  11. #10  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelo_Maligno View Post
    It's a casual theory. I was just pointing out it has as much merit as the aliens theory though as there are nearly equal amounts of evidence for it.
    And you're still wrong.
    The "aliens theory" is without merit. And there is not "equal amounts of evidence". There is ZERO evidence for the aliens hypothesis.

    Very well speculation then. I have trouble with language because I'm schizophrenic. Stop bullying me you jerk.
    You're not being bullied.
    If you can't be precise how are we supposed to know what you mean?

    That would another topic of speculation.
    No, it is, of necessity, a fundamental part of your speculation. If they do "come down from space" then you have to address how they travel.

    and generally metal is found in rock.
    Beside the point: you quite clearly stated "feed on rock formations" not "feed on metal deposits in rock formations".
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  12. #11  
    Forum Freshman Angelo_Maligno's Avatar
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    You're not being bullied.
    If you can't be precise how are we supposed to know what you mean?
    Now I'm just going to stick around and make inaccurate statements because it clearly irritates you.

    I'm never responding to another criticism of yours again either.
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  13. #12  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelo_Maligno View Post
    Now I'm just going to stick around and make inaccurate statements because it clearly irritates you.
    That's one way of getting banned.
    (I.e. deliberate baiting would be regarded as trolling).

    I'm never responding to another criticism of yours again either.
    And will that policy extend to other posters who criticise you1
    If so then that's another way of getting banned.

    You ARE aware that science requires supporting evidence? If so why do you take this attitude?

    1 YOU weren't being criticised - your claims/ statements were.
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  14. #13  
    Forum Freshman Angelo_Maligno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    That's one way of getting banned.
    (I.e. deliberate baiting would be regarded as trolling).
    How exactly would one determine intent over an internet connection? It's not that I would deliberately be inaccurate. It's that it's the nature of my condition to use inaccurate words. I have been developing my understanding of word usage for years and still don't always use the right words.


    And will that policy extend to other posters who criticise you1
    If so then that's another way of getting banned.
    What fascism is this? I ignore someone and I get banned? On other sites I have the right to block people I don't like.

    You ARE aware that science requires supporting evidence? If so why do you take this attitude?
    I'm just here to discuss my interests.

    1 YOU weren't being criticised - your claims/ statements were.
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  15. #14  
    Forum Freshman Angelo_Maligno's Avatar
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    You ARE aware that science requires supporting evidence? If so why do you take this attitude?


    Does not one speak their mind at risk of being wrong. How can one be right without some wrongness? Doth perfection flow through the veins of man?
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  16. #15  
    Forum Freshman Angelo_Maligno's Avatar
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    You ARE aware that science requires supporting evidence? If so why do you take this attitude?
    Science is the pursuit of truth, it does not mean one will always speak the truth.
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  17. #16  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelo_Maligno View Post
    How exactly would one determine intent over an internet connection?
    Um, perhaps a clear declarative statement such as, I dunno, something like this "Now I'm just going to stick around and make inaccurate statements because it clearly irritates you" could be taken as an indicator.

    It's not that I would deliberately be inaccurate.
    And yet you've clearly indicated that such is your intent.

    What fascism is this? I ignore someone and I get banned?
    Learn to read: ignoring criticisms of your posts (e.g. failing to support your claims) is what would get you banned.

    n other sites I have the right to block people I don't like.
    You put anyone (except, I think, moderators) on ignore on this forum too.
    All that will happen then is that those posters will show the flaws in your arguments/ contentions (should there be any) which you will (obviously) not respond to and your thread will assigned to Trash. If you continue to follow such a pattern that also would lead to a ban.

    I'm just here to discuss my interests.
    As I stated: it's a science forum. If you're not prepared to support your claims then then you really have no business being here.

    Does not one speak their mind at risk of being wrong. How can one be right without some wrongness? Doth perfection flow through the veins of man?
    This is unmitigated bollocks. And also doesn't address the point about evidence.

    Science is the pursuit of truth
    No it's not.
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Angelo_Maligno View Post
    How exactly would one determine intent over an internet connection?
    Um, perhaps a clear declarative statement such as, I dunno, something like this "Now I'm just going to stick around and make inaccurate statements because it clearly irritates you" could be taken as an indicator.

    It's not that I would deliberately be inaccurate.
    And yet you've clearly indicated that such is your intent.

    What fascism is this? I ignore someone and I get banned?
    Learn to read: ignoring criticisms of your posts (e.g. failing to support your claims) is what would get you banned.

    n other sites I have the right to block people I don't like.
    You put anyone (except, I think, moderators) on ignore on this forum too.
    All that will happen then is that those posters will show the flaws in your arguments/ contentions (should there be any) which you will (obviously) not respond to and your thread will assigned to Trash. If you continue to follow such a pattern that also would lead to a ban.

    I'm just here to discuss my interests.
    As I stated: it's a science forum. If you're not prepared to support your claims then then you really have no business being here.

    Does not one speak their mind at risk of being wrong. How can one be right without some wrongness? Doth perfection flow through the veins of man?
    This is unmitigated bollocks. And also doesn't address the point about evidence.

    Science is the pursuit of truth
    No it's not.
    You're clearly more unhinged than I am. You are currently berating me for lack of evidence in the pseudoscience section. It has no supporting evidence is that a bannable offense. Speculation without evidence? Could you point out in the rules where speculation is a bannable offense so I can just leave you alone already and never set foot in your shitty corner of the internet again?
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  19. #18  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelo_Maligno View Post
    You're clearly more unhinged than I am.
    Wrong.

    You are currently berating me for lack of evidence in the pseudoscience section.
    I am berating you for making direct claims that you cannot support.

    It has no supporting evidence is that a bannable offense.
    Repeated claims without support will result in a ban.

    Speculation without evidence? Could you point out in the rules where speculation is a bannable offense so I can just leave you alone already and next set foot in your shitty corner of the internet again?
    Please show where you indicated that your claims/ statements were "speculation".
    "it has as much merit as the aliens theory though as there are nearly equal amounts of evidence for it" is not speculation, it's a direct claim. As is "Any theory about these "craft" is valid".
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  20. #19  
    Forum Freshman Angelo_Maligno's Avatar
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    Please show where you indicated that your claims/ statements were "speculation".
    "it has as much merit as the aliens theory though as there are nearly equal amounts of evidence for it" is not speculation, it's a direct claim. As is "Any theory about these "craft" is valid".
    When I corrected the term I would use instead of theory.

    Very well speculation then. I have trouble with language because I'm schizophrenic. Stop bullying me you jerk.
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  21. #20  
    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    I really can't see you being happy here with your attitude, maybe it's time to move on...
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  22. #21  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelo_Maligno View Post
    When I corrected the term I would use instead of theory.
    Except the place where you corrected "theory" into "speculation" was with regard to YOUR speculation about lifeforms from space (which, apart from pointing out that you'd need to address how they travelled, I have not addressed since). Your direct claims were with regard to the "alien hypothesis having as much evidence as any other for the paintings".

    You: As an example I have a theory they could be lifeforms that are adapted to live in space that come down and perhaps feed on rock formations.
    Me: What evidence do you have for this theory? (Or did you mean the word in the sense "wild guess"?).
    You: Very well speculation then. I have trouble with language because I'm schizophrenic. Stop bullying me you jerk.
    Posts #8 and #9.

    Now, if you wish amend what "speculation" refers to (i.e. to also include your unfounded claims about what evidence exists for the "aliens in the paintings") then fair enough. We can all carry on and disregard everything you say on the topic.
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    I really can't see you being happy here with your attitude, maybe it's time to move on...
    You know what you're right. Let the mod strange the website until most of the people leave and they get next to no ad revenue. I'm not going to support my own harassment.
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  24. #23  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelo_Maligno View Post
    I'm not going to support my own harassment.
    Already explained (in this thread AND the PM I've sent you regrading your report).
    It's NOT "harassment.
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  25. #24  
    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    I don't think you are being harassed, you are being asked to be precise. You obviously want to discuss your ideas but if you are going to throw your toys out of the pram the moment they are criticized this is not the forum for you. If you want people to just accept what you say start a blog then you can delete comments that you don't like but your ideas will not get any better...
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  26. #25  
    Forum Freshman Angelo_Maligno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    I don't think you are being harassed, you are being asked to be precise. You obviously want to discuss your ideas but if you are going to throw your toys out of the pram the moment they are criticized this is not the forum for you. If you want people to just accept what you say start a blog then you can delete comments that you don't like but your ideas will not get any better...
    It was entirely speculation and if there was support evidence I would give it.
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  27. #26  
    Forum Freshman Angelo_Maligno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Except the place where you corrected "theory" into "speculation" was with regard to YOUR speculation about lifeforms from space (which, apart from pointing out that you'd need to address how they travelled, I have not addressed since). Your direct claims were with regard to the "alien hypothesis having as much evidence as any other for the paintings".

    You: As an example I have a theory they could be lifeforms that are adapted to live in space that come down and perhaps feed on rock formations.
    Me: What evidence do you have for this theory? (Or did you mean the word in the sense "wild guess"?).
    You: Very well speculation then. I have trouble with language because I'm schizophrenic. Stop bullying me you jerk.
    Posts #8 and #9.

    Now, if you wish amend what "speculation" refers to (i.e. to also include your unfounded claims about what evidence exists for the "aliens in the paintings") then fair enough. We can all carry on and disregard everything you say on the topic.
    It's a complete and utter speculation or was it conjecture or was it.... a wild guess. There is some evidence but it may be doctored including UFO footage.
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  28. #27  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelo_Maligno View Post
    It's a complete and utter speculation or was it conjecture or was it.... a wild guess.
    Then why state it as a unequivocal fact?

    There is some evidence but it may be doctored including UFO footage.
    You mean the purported evidence may be faked? Or something else?

    (I am NOT harassing you here I'm simply trying to establish precisely what you mean. Given that you've admitted that you have trouble expressing yourself don't you think it's a good idea for all parties to be clear on what the other is actually saying?)
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  29. #28  
    Forum Freshman Angelo_Maligno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Then why state it as a unequivocal fact?
    I don't know. Why do you sometimes make mistakes? Do you even have a reason for mistakes you make?

    You mean the purported evidence may be faked? Or something else?
    Yes.
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  30. #29  
    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelo_Maligno View Post

    You know what you're right. Let the mod strange the website until most of the people leave and they get next to no ad revenue. I'm not going to support my own harassment.
    And yet you're still here... What is the best outcome you are expecting?
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  31. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post

    And yet you're still here... What is the best outcome you are expecting?
    That a mod shouldn't be so critical and asspained about what happens in the pseudoscience section. I'm just here to relax and post conjecture that doesn't have to go anywhere or be accepted as rational or scientific. I'm not here to do science at all. I'm here for interesting and sometimes speculative conversation. If a mod have no way of blocking at all just sits there and argues with me it detracts from that interesting conversation. He's a mod, it's not his job to berate me about inaccuracies in my language or spelling. The janitor of a school isn't a teacher or a principle.
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  32. #31  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelo_Maligno View Post
    That a mod shouldn't be so critical and asspained about what happens in the pseudoscience section.
    Because - despite this particular sub-forum - this IS a science forum, not a woo forum.

    I'm just here to relax and post conjecture that doesn't have to go anywhere or be accepted as rational or scientific.
    If it's unscientific AND irrational then why post at all on a science forum?

    I'm not here to do science at all. I'm here for interesting and sometimes speculative conversation. If a mod have no way of blocking at all just sits there and argues with me it detracts from that interesting conversation.
    Given that it took until post #25 before you finally admitted that all your posts were speculation then what did you expect?
    Making claims that are demonstrably false is not going to endear you to anyone but loons.

    He's a mod, it's not his job to berate me about inaccuracies in my language or spelling. The janitor of a school isn't a teacher or a principle.
    If you can't make it clear what you mean (cf "inaccuracies in your language") then you aren't communicating.
    Or do you expect readers to simply assume what you mean?
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  33. #32  
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    This might even explain why we lose an unusually high number of probes to Mars as they could have been eaten.
    Now I can see why.

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  34. #33  
    Forum Freshman Angelo_Maligno's Avatar
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    Given that it took until post #25 before you finally admitted that all your posts were speculation then what did you expect?
    Making claims that are demonstrably false is not going to endear you to anyone but loons.
    but those are the interesting people.
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