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Thread: Dinosaur descendants, dominate the oceans...

  1. #1 Dinosaur descendants, dominate the oceans... 
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    opinion; Most of the species known as dinosaurs, did not die off. They simply evolved into sea mammals or sea life. Our skeletal history of the Dino's end 60 million years ago and our skeletal history of large sea life begins about 55 million years ago. The cause possibly atmospheric pressure changes or food chain disruptions caused from over populations of some carnivorous types...


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    I find it a little difficult to believe that so many species could all suddenly 'change course' all at the same time....


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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    I find it a little difficult to believe that so many species could all suddenly 'change course' all at the same time....
    well, lets say this time element was over a 3 million year period. what has happened during the past three million years.

    there is a good spread on the skeleton remains as to age. in guessing cause most assume there all vanished or died on Oct. 16, 62,033,045,043bc, or the day after the asteroid hit...

    its just as hard to imagine the whales appearance and skeletal likeness as change so close to a demise of another species.
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    October 16th? I think you are confusing the asteroid with the big bang.
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    whales evovled from the same ancestors wich dogs and wolves have.
    fishes evolved from less primetive animals, the exact one i dont remember as i write this
    the swiming lizards are lizards not dinsaurs
    the dinosaurs are dead and the only thing that can take the name "dinosaur" today is birds
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    whales evovled from the same ancestors wich dogs and wolves have.
    fishes evolved from less primetive animals, the exact one i dont remember as i write this
    the swiming lizards are lizards not dinsaurs
    the dinosaurs are dead and the only thing that can take the name "dinosaur" today is birds
    technically everything is THOUGHT to have evolved from rudimentary forms of life which seems to have been around for 3.5 billion years.

    according to an article at Fox News, science dept., primates are now thought to have been around 55 million years, much like the earliest records of very large whales.

    also keep in mind i am aware of the supposed theories, do not disagree but offer a possible alternative view. one thing my mind will not concede is the Dino's died off for suggested reasons.

    we do know many sea animals became ground animals, with some evidence of earth bounds going back to sea life, during their evolution.
    another conclusive fact is the older species that are in the seas, tend to be deep water or maybe even require higher pressures.

    the skeletal remains of dinosaurs and whales, are remarkable close, both large, both dominant, both known to have been around the same period. wolfs do go well back toward mammal existence, with little doubt were tamed by pre-historic man to pets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackson33
    according to an article at Fox News, science dept., primates are now thought to have been around 55 million years
    Was that on April 1st or just a low news day, you have come up with some obscure (yet actual) claims in the past, can you provide a link to this?.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Quote Originally Posted by jackson33
    according to an article at Fox News, science dept., primates are now thought to have been around 55 million years
    Was that on April 1st or just a low news day, you have come up with some obscure (yet actual) claims in the past, can you provide a link to this?.
    sorry mega, i don't know how. foxnews.com, then click science. is a recent article however. went there today on a dark matter article, which you may find interesting as well...
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    I'm not sure I consider FOX NEWS to be the most noteworthy of news organistations, if you are in the UK you will be aware of a particular sunday newspaper famous for headlines like "Elvis seen on the moon" or "Aliens ate my hamster" etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    I'm not sure I consider FOX NEWS to be the most noteworthy of news organistations, if you are in the UK you will be aware of a particular sunday newspaper famous for headlines like "Elvis seen on the moon" or "Aliens ate my hamster" etc.
    Fox News, does not make up news. they do report what others say is newsworthy. i feel sure the other networks have the same thing, but since i work a little with them, i use there site....

    Andrea Thompson, Live Science 2-2-07 is the author of the article i referenced. she list sources for her report.

    yes we have tabloid papers here as well. even our NBC, has been heading this way. make up a good story and go with it...maybe i should send my ideas to The National Enquirer, they could have a field day....
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  12. #11 Re: Dinosaur descendants, dominate the oceans... 
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackson33
    opinion; Most of the species known as dinosaurs, did not die off. They simply evolved into sea mammals or sea life.
    Dinosaurs evolved into birds, ocean life evolved from ocean life back then or mammals if you look at dolphins.
    I can't remember fully but I watched a TV programme something like walking with ???? and it was talking about life before dinosaurs how there was a dog/komodo dragon mix creature which evolved into a small rodent as tiny lizards evolved into dinosaurs and then the rodent evolved into the many different branches of mammal and the dinosaurs evolved into birds. As its TV it can't be 100% credible but it is a very good theory.
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    I remember once being told that 'dinosaurs evolved into fossils!'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    I remember once being told that 'dinosaurs evolved into fossils!'
    THATS IT!!
    now we know what happened with them :-D
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  15. #14 Re: Dinosaur descendants, dominate the oceans... 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee W
    Quote Originally Posted by jackson33
    opinion; Most of the species known as dinosaurs, did not die off. They simply evolved into sea mammals or sea life.
    Dinosaurs evolved into birds, ocean life evolved from ocean life back then or mammals if you look at dolphins.
    I can't remember fully but I watched a TV programme something like walking with ???? and it was talking about life before dinosaurs how there was a dog/komodo dragon mix creature which evolved into a small rodent as tiny lizards evolved into dinosaurs and then the rodent evolved into the many different branches of mammal and the dinosaurs evolved into birds. As its TV it can't be 100% credible but it is a very good theory.
    yes Lee, many think the chicken, turkey and some exotic birds came from the same family as Dino. facial skin and gullet as i recall. many things evolve into many different forms. its suggested there were as few as 100 families of species 240mya, compared to todays 800 such families.

    what i suggest is that for some need, these giant creatures evolved into ocean life. many think today that the dolphins were land creatures and did go back to ocean life. i just happen to think the giant whales found a few years later after the Dino period, were descendants of the t-rex or other such beast.

    remember, the mass extinctions of 240 million years ago are thought to have wiped out (up to 95%) much of sea life. i am not going that far, but its possible much of that extinction, became what was the beginning of massive land life. kind of a catalyst from need.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    I remember once being told that 'dinosaurs evolved into fossils!'
    and many of those fossils are 5% or less of the actual display. even a recent discovery in India, means these creatures lived in many places before not thought. size, complexity, apparent dominance are not equaling finds of would have been. they just didn't all become oil deposits or are you still on that page???
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    Er I don't think the oil they are digging up is dinosaur oil.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackson33
    yes Lee, many think the chicken, turkey and some exotic birds came from the same family as Dino. facial skin and gullet as i recall. many things evolve into many different forms. its suggested there were as few as 100 families of species 240mya, compared to todays 800 such families.
    Anybody who believes that some birds evolved from dinosaurs, with the implication that some didn't, evidently does not understand the way evolution works.

    When dinosaurs walked the earth, there were no birds, at least at first. Some dinosaur subspecies evolved into Archaeopteryx, and from that descended all birds. Not just chicken and turkey and "some exotic birds".

    All non-mammalian sea creatures, however, no matter which way you cut it, are all the same lines that have been around since long before there even were dinosaurs, or indeed anything walking on the dry earth.
    "It is comparatively easy to make clever guesses; indeed there are theorems, like 'Goldbach's Theorem' which have never been proved and which any fool could have guessed." G.H. Hardy, Fourier Series, 1943
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  19. #18 Re: Dinosaur descendants, dominate the oceans... 
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackson33
    opinion; Most of the species known as dinosaurs, did not die off. They simply evolved into sea mammals or sea life. Our skeletal history of the Dino's end 60 million years ago and our skeletal history of large sea life begins about 55 million years ago. The cause possibly atmospheric pressure changes or food chain disruptions caused from over populations of some carnivorous types...
    As a paleontologist I can state without any reservation:

    No. Absolutely not.
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    this theory was offered in PC for reason...

    there are some that think, some birds evolved from the Dino types. the flying or if you wish gliding reptiles and the first birds do have similarities. large and non-flying. 65BYA to 55BYA...birds appear.

    whales appeared 55 BYA and we have skeletal remains dating back to that 55mya, already large in stature. according to some, these evolved from land-living mammals, probably as seal-like and evolved. ref; Microsoft Encarta, time line 55 mya and under whales.

    the skeletal remains of available dino/whale, are similar. warm blooded reptiles or Dino's MAY question the cross over from cold and warm blooded life.

    jelly; you might find the FOX science dept. interesting. there Evolution and Paleontology section is kept up to date. i have found the word "absolute" a little unsafe in usage, but will not argue your educational value over mine in this area...
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackson33
    this theory was offered in PC for reason...

    there are some that think, some birds evolved from the Dino types. the flying or if you wish gliding reptiles and the first birds do have similarities. large and non-flying. 65BYA to 55BYA...birds appear.

    whales appeared 55 BYA and we have skeletal remains dating back to that 55mya, already large in stature. according to some, these evolved from land-living mammals, probably as seal-like and evolved. ref; Microsoft Encarta, time line 55 mya and under whales.

    the skeletal remains of available dino/whale, are similar. warm blooded reptiles or Dino's MAY question the cross over from cold and warm blooded life.

    jelly; you might find the FOX science dept. interesting. there Evolution and Paleontology section is kept up to date. i have found the word "absolute" a little unsafe in usage, but will not argue your educational value over mine in this area...
    The ancestors of mammals are much older than the dinosaur extinction. Most orders of mammals were around at the time...including the whale ancestors and those of other marine mammals. You are a mammal and related to a whale more closely than non-mammalian vertebrates (dinosaurs). There were several large reptilian-like aquatic vertebrates during the age of dinosaurs.. such as mosasaurs, plesiosaurs, etc.

    Whales have distinct features that make them mammals. This is not in dispute. This includes skeleton and teeth features, reproduction methods, endothermy, blood structure and more or less every feature that you and I have. A cross section of a bone is distinct in mammals as are many other diagnostic methods.

    It's a bit of a misnomer to think of dinosaurs as dominant when they were around. They filled the niche of macro terrestrial vertebrates but there were also hundreds of species of mammals (and reptlles & amphibians) that were the micro terrestrial vertebrates. In fact some would claim that the smaller vertebrate niches are the more desired...those occupied largely by rodents, snakes, lizards and so on today.

    (Thanks for the reference to the website. ill be sure to check it out).)
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    prior to the extinctions of most life about 250 million years ago, reptiles were part of the landscape. although there are some questions that some may have been or had mammal like qualities. certainly they were not complex and were thought to have died where reptiles are said to have only been reduced.

    mammals do appear around 200 mya, in primitive forms. the Dino's were before in family species. both then were said to evolve in or during the same period, but mammals only flourished after the extinctions of 65 mya.
    the extinctions of 250 mya are said to have been a near total of the sea life at the time. this tell me some form of film must have covered the oceans, rather than the GW effect suggested by most.

    i understand large is not required for survival of the fittest. but i would think if 50 meat eating animals are placed in an enclosed area, with water only, the end result will be the largest....
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    Jackson, I suggest simply that all animals today are descendents of those around 10 million years ago, those from 10My are desccendent from those 20my... etc etc, right back to the lifeless amino acids.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Jackson, I suggest simply that all animals today are descendents of those around 10 million years ago, those from 10My are desccendent from those 20my... etc etc, right back to the lifeless amino acids.
    True, but those around 10 mya weren't closely related to eachother nor were most 20 mya, etc. The taxonomic phylas were established in the Cambrian 500 million years ago.Vertebrate have chordata ancestors going back to the Cambrian. Where classes of vertebrates 'separate' is a bit more subjective...when is an amphibian-type vertebrate 'a reptile' and then a 'mammal',etc. Division points are arbitrary and based on what's included in the criteria of a definition....one of the reasons terms need to be defined in taonomy just as in all science.
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    as said. i have to accept your educational background, but;

    its my understanding prior to the Dino period and/or the mass extinctions of near ALL sea life and much of land life, much what was and from what families or species of, is not that well established. in fact mammals by most are said to have evolved about 200MYA, well after the reptiles.

    my contention is land/sea life was interchangeable in degrees not often mentioned and during the 250-60 mya arena. there is nothing new about the general concept. reptiles are for the most part are well adapted to either water or land existence. dino's, mini to monsters could well have been warm blooded, sea fairing and evolved to much of whats accepted sea life today. back to or from, of no importance.

    your professional group feels there are many species via remains that can and will be discovered, from the dino period, but admit prior to this much has literally turned to dust. even with discovery however, it will take regressive evolvements and found, to establish the pattern which already has a base.

    as for species changing over the eon's. i suppose this is true, so lets just pick on one. The frog, said to be about 190 million years in existence and not much different today than then. probably even from tadpoles which just adds to some of my thoughts...
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackson33
    as said. i have to accept your educational background, but;

    its my understanding prior to the Dino period and/or the mass extinctions of near ALL sea life and much of land life, much what was and from what families or species of, is not that well established. in fact mammals by most are said to have evolved about 200MYA, well after the reptiles.

    my contention is land/sea life was interchangeable in degrees not often mentioned and during the 250-60 mya arena. there is nothing new about the general concept. reptiles are for the most part are well adapted to either water or land existence. dino's, mini to monsters could well have been warm blooded, sea fairing and evolved to much of whats accepted sea life today. back to or from, of no importance.

    your professional group feels there are many species via remains that can and will be discovered, from the dino period, but admit prior to this much has literally turned to dust. even with discovery however, it will take regressive evolvements and found, to establish the pattern which already has a base.

    as for species changing over the eon's. i suppose this is true, so lets just pick on one. The frog, said to be about 190 million years in existence and not much different today than then. probably even from tadpoles which just adds to some of my thoughts...
    I'm not sure of your point. There's lots of records of non-dino vertebrates going back to the Permian. We know the anscestors of whales, today's marine sharks, and other marine animals. none of which are dinosaurs. Members of various classes are not interchangeable...a bat is not a bird and a whale is not a fish or reptile.

    Dinos were not aquatic. There were other large reptiles in the Mesozoic..mosasaurs, Pliosaurs, icthyosaurs, etc. but they were not dinosaurs but other orders of reptiles. The dinosaur niche can't be replaced by whales because dinos never lived in the oceans. Dinosaurs consisted of 2 terrestrial orders.

    A mammal can evolve to be aquatic but it doesn't make it any less of a mammal. Classes of life in biology are based on genetic lines. Humans didn't evolve from salamanders but primates and these primates have been around for tens of millions of years. In turn, whales did not evolve from dinosaurs or similar animals, they are descendents of mammalian lines just as humas are.
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    Peter Bryant, uoc Irvine, suggest mammals first appeared 200mya and there are those that suggest earlier life forms that evolved to mammals. if i have a point its the inconsistency of what is thought to the change over from sea to land, cold to warm blooded, egg to live, sperm fertilization in or out of body and maybe how size and complexity could be achieved of mammals so quickly.

    when saying Dino types evolved back to water or infer they may have evolved from water, i am not suggesting any particular member of a species. this means, no suggestion that T-Rex just jumped into the water and turned into a whale. the T-Rex and those aquatics were from some source which developed no doubt to both. i would question T-Rex or others, not being somewhat comfortable in water however.

    you know that an ice age is suspected around 250 to 240 mya over whats now the southern continents. 240mya, for whatever reason near all sea life became extinct as well as much of land life. about 208 mya another sea life extinction from said 60% from ocean current changes as the two major oceans merged. w/o going into all the formations on the planet, or the known other meteor hits or suspected atmospheric changes, the last thing that should have been effected were the T-Rex types, or at least how many were described. (not from Hollywood)

    all said and done; since i am not getting any positive reaction on the issue the objective to offer the idea seems doomed. there are three theories on vertebrate origin, which are ongoing, however my thoughts here are not this and i will continue to feel T-Rex, the Whale found that is said to be 55byo and the Blue whale of today have a common ancestry in complex life forms. this complying to an existence and adaptability to land or sea...
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