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Thread: 4th State of Water Discovered

  1. #1 4th State of Water Discovered 
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    The existence of a new state of water has been proved/discovered according to a recently published research paper.

    The paper proves that the gaseous-like particles emanating from frozen water, ice, is completely different from vapor and as well is justified to be the 4th/new state of water.

    It further claim that a certain new form of force is responsible for its formation and motion.

    The paper titled "Gason: A New State of Water" published by American Journal of Science and Technology


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    Aren't there something like 16 different forms of water ice?


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    Took a while to track this down: AASCIT - Journal - All Issues

    It doesn't look terribly credible but I don't really know enough to comment.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Took a while to track this down: AASCIT - Journal - All Issues

    It doesn't look terribly credible but I don't really know enough to comment.
    Thanks for the link. I've read it - it's quite short.

    I think it is an April Fool joke. There are some hilarious new terms invented in it but absolutely no evidence for this "gason" stuff at all.
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    I think it is an April Fool joke. There are some hilarious new terms invented in it but absolutely no evidence for this "gason" stuff at all.
    In a nutshell, the motion of gason is as a result of force, not heat. This force is termed ejibo. Therefore ejibo is the force responsible for the formation and motion of gason.
    Er, yeah, the guy's named this "force" after himself .
    Not sure it's meant as a joke, but it DOES emanate from Nigeria.
    Now, I may be accused of generalising, but isn't that the same place we got this little gem from: "Magnets prove homosexuality is unnatural"
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    I think it is an April Fool joke. There are some hilarious new terms invented in it but absolutely no evidence for this "gason" stuff at all.
    In a nutshell, the motion of gason is as a result of force, not heat. This force is termed ejibo. Therefore ejibo is the force responsible for the formation and motion of gason.
    Er, yeah, the guy's named this "force" after himself .
    Not sure it's meant as a joke, but it DOES emanate from Nigeria.
    Now, I may be accused of generalising, but isn't that the same place we got this little gem from: "Magnets prove homosexuality is unnatural"
    Hahah yes very good.

    I looked up the company these characters were said to work for and it does exist. It make candles, and also scented products for toilets, in Kaduna. I imagine it has a research staff of, er, two. These chaps dreamt up the concept after looking at the vapours arising from frozen fish, apparently. It's possibly the most bizarre "research" publication I have ever read. It is almost as if the writers intended it seriously and it is the journal that decided - with April 1st coming up - what the hell, let's give everyone a laugh, by accepting it.
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    I think it is an April Fool joke. There are some hilarious new terms invented in it but absolutely no evidence for this "gason" stuff at all.
    In a nutshell, the motion of gason is as a result of force, not heat. This force is termed ejibo. Therefore ejibo is the force responsible for the formation and motion of gason.
    Er, yeah, the guy's named this "force" after himself .
    Not sure it's meant as a joke, but it DOES emanate from Nigeria.
    Now, I may be accused of generalising, but isn't that the same place we got this little gem from: "Magnets prove homosexuality is unnatural"

    Whether or not it is a joke, the American Journal of Science and Technology is not listed by ScienceDirect, nor does Google Scholar yield any useful results.
    The only result leads to a paper published in IJETAE, which cites an article from the AJST, although the title does not appear in the issues and the paper from the former was published in August 2013, whilst AJST did not publish articles until March 2014.

    In summary, it has an unpleasant smell.
    Last edited by Cogito Ergo Sum; May 6th, 2014 at 07:01 AM.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    I think it is an April Fool joke. There are some hilarious new terms invented in it but absolutely no evidence for this "gason" stuff at all.
    In a nutshell, the motion of gason is as a result of force, not heat. This force is termed ejibo. Therefore ejibo is the force responsible for the formation and motion of gason.
    Er, yeah, the guy's named this "force" after himself .
    Not sure it's meant as a joke, but it DOES emanate from Nigeria.
    Now, I may be accused of generalising, but isn't that the same place we got this little gem from: "Magnets prove homosexuality is unnatural"
    Gah, and just when I thought I'd purged that "article" from my memory.

    You owe me a bottle of brain bleach.
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    I think it is an April Fool joke. There are some hilarious new terms invented in it but absolutely no evidence for this "gason" stuff at all.
    In a nutshell, the motion of gason is as a result of force, not heat. This force is termed ejibo. Therefore ejibo is the force responsible for the formation and motion of gason.
    Er, yeah, the guy's named this "force" after himself .
    Not sure it's meant as a joke, but it DOES emanate from Nigeria.
    Now, I may be accused of generalising, but isn't that the same place we got this little gem from: "Magnets prove homosexuality is unnatural"

    Whether or not it is a joke, the American Journal of Science and Technology is not listed by ScienceDirect, nor does Google Scholar yield any useful results.
    The only result leads to a paper published in IJETAE, which cites an article from the AJST, although the title does not appear in neither of the issues and the paper from the former was published in August 2013, whilst AJST did not publish articles until March 2014.

    In summary, it has an unpleasant smell.
    You're right! There seem to be NO named people forming an editorial board or anything and the AASCIT abbreviation seems designed to confuse with reputable organisations that do really exist.

    The whole thing seems to be fake. What's their scam, do you suppose?
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    Every new idea is not expected to be accepted immediately with open arms. The Journal might not be old enough, but every great Journal have a start.

    Forget the Author's Country or affiliations, do you think that water vapor and emanations from ice are the same?

    Science thrive in openness and objectivity.
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    You're right! There seem to be NO named people forming an editorial board or anything and the AASCIT abbreviation seems designed to confuse with reputable organisations that do really exist.

    The whole thing seems to be fake. What's their scam, do you suppose?

    I suppose that, by setting up a journal that seems legitimate, authors will send their articles and manuscripts for publication and will make a payment (150 - 200 USD). The authors think they have made a genuine scientific contribution by publishing their article in a peer-reviewed journal, but they did nothing but pay for something useless. Given the fact that the journal "also owns and publishes 23 journals--the largest and most highly cited journal in the field", they can attract many authors for various articles.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    Is the journal proposing another state of matter or another form of H2O?

    Because there are already 4 recognised states of matter (plasma is the 4th) and over a dozen forms of H2O.
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    Is the journal proposing another state of matter or another form of H2O?

    Because there are already 4 recognised states of matter (plasma is the 4th) and over a dozen forms of H2O.

    From the abstract:
    This work has clearly proved and discovered another state of water which is named gason. This work also identified new changes of state as ejibomisation and perrychristisation. (...) This work focuses on ice, more generalized version of this study will soon be published to accommodate all forms of matter beyond water.

    (Bold mine)
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jikepaddy View Post
    do you think that water vapor and emanations from ice are the same?
    Yes.

    Science thrive in openness and objectivity.
    There is no objective data to support the existence of "gason".
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  16. #15  
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    Isn't that the same thing as sublimation?
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    I postulate that a fifth state of water can be achieved. It is called "delicious" and it occurs when you fill a standard glass with cold water and put a slice of lemon in it.
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karsus View Post
    ... when you fill a standard glass with cold water and put a slice of lemon in it.
    The process of karsusification.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jikepaddy View Post
    Every new idea is not expected to be accepted immediately with open arms. The Journal might not be old enough, but every great Journal have a start.

    Forget the Author's Country or affiliations, do you think that water vapor and emanations from ice are the same?

    Science thrive in openness and objectivity.
    It'a scam journal with a nonsensical article in it. Any fool can see the "paper" is - objectively - rubbish, from the total lack of results contained in it.

    Science thrives on criticism and rigorous quality control, by the way, not on woolly-minded acceptance of any old shit.

    You wouldn't be Nigerian, by any chance, would you?
    Last edited by exchemist; May 6th, 2014 at 08:16 AM.
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karsus View Post
    I postulate that a fifth state of water can be achieved. It is called "delicious" and it occurs when you fill a standard glass with cold water and put a slice of lemon in it.
    Yes, and a sixth state is called "Macgyverisation"...in which a small amount of H2O is mixed with single malt whiskey....transforming it into the nectar of the gods. Also called "nectarisation"...it was discovered by a Scott in 1465.
    Fixin' shit that ain't broke.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jikepaddy View Post
    The existence of a new state of water has been proved/discovered according to a recently published research paper.

    The paper proves that the gaseous-like particles emanating from frozen water, ice, is completely different from vapor and as well is justified to be the 4th/new state of water.

    It further claim that a certain new form of force is responsible for its formation and motion.

    The paper titled "Gason: A New State of Water" published by American Journal of Science and Technology
    I've reported you for attempting to boost a predatory journal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predato...ess_publishing

    http://scholarlyoa.com/publishers/

    It will be up to the moderators what, if anything, they do about it.

    Makes a change from scam 404 I suppose.
    Last edited by exchemist; May 6th, 2014 at 09:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    I've reported you for attempting to boost a predatory journal. Predatory open-access publishing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    LIST OF PUBLISHERS | Scholarly Open Access

    It will be up to the moderators what, if anything, they do about it.

    That confirms what I said in post #7. Thank you for providing the second link, it is very useful (and a bit frightening due to its length).
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    I've reported you for attempting to boost a predatory journal. Predatory open-access publishing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    LIST OF PUBLISHERS | Scholarly Open Access

    It will be up to the moderators what, if anything, they do about it.

    That confirms what I said in post #7. Thank you for providing the second link, it is very useful (and a bit frightening due to its length).
    Yes it was your remark that caused me to do a bit more digging.

    Not very nice, is it, to take money off gullible people to publish their stuff in faked up journals with a circulation of zero? But that's the business they are in. If you look at their website, there is chuff-all about issues or articles for readers, which is most extraordinary for a supposed journal, as that should be their raison d'etre. In fact, it seems the ONLY article they have EVER published is this nonsense one that Strange found, even though they've made it look as if there are others by starting it on page 55.

    Instead of any articles for readers, there is loads of stuff for authors, about how (for a fee) you can get things published, or how (for another fee?) you can join their editorial board, etc.

    And not a single named individual, or registered company address, in sight…….

    Of course, once they have an author's bank details, they can empty his account, too, while they are at it.

    It's a (Nigerian?) jungle out there.
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    In fact, it seems the ONLY article they have EVER published is this nonsense one that Strange found, even though they've made it look as if there are others by starting it on page 55.
    That is not quite true. If you click on the All Issues link, they have published two issues with a total of 9 papers.

    And not a single named individual, or registered company address, in sight…….
    The domain name was registered at the end of last year via a proxy so that no names are revealed by a whois lookup. Their office address is a serviced office suite (I am willing to bet a small amount that there are 0 staff based there). All vary nasty and scammy.
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    In fact, it seems the ONLY article they have EVER published is this nonsense one that Strange found, even though they've made it look as if there are others by starting it on page 55.
    That is not quite true. If you click on the All Issues link, they have published two issues with a total of 9 papers.

    And not a single named individual, or registered company address, in sight…….
    The domain name was registered at the end of last year via a proxy so that no names are revealed by a whois lookup. Their office address is a serviced office suite (I am willing to bet a small amount that there are 0 staff based there). All vary nasty and scammy.
    Oh yes you are right. So they have suckered a handful of people in contributing papers, mostly from Africa or Eastern Europe I see.

    But your further research confirms the diagnosis. The only question now is whether the OP was innocent or complicit. Suspect if the latter we will not be seeing him again, now that he's been rumbled. Anyhow that's for the Mods. But I see he's still logged on, even as I write this………..

    But yet another eye-opener into the murky world of stealing people's money under false pretences. How depressing. Just as I was getting used to these jokers who ring up periodically from the "Microsoft Technical Serwice Department", about "a wirus on your Vindows computer".
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    I'm interested in establishing the truth as whether the Journal is a scam or not.

    Let's also try to read without prejudice to really ascertain if the paper is proving something.
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  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jikepaddy View Post
    I'm interested in establishing the truth as whether the Journal is a scam or not.

    Let's also try to read without prejudice to really ascertain if the paper is proving something.
    Your appeal has already been granted. The paper was given due consideration, in the scientific spirit of objectivity. And, based on the available evidence, the paper is a joke (whether intended to be or not), and the journal in which it is published is obviously a money-making scam outfit with zero scientific credibility.

    We've already ascertainted that the paper proves nothing. Its claim is therefore properly dismissed as unsupported crap.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jikepaddy View Post
    I'm interested in establishing the truth as whether the Journal is a scam or not.

    Let's also try to read without prejudice to really ascertain if the paper is proving something.
    Regardless of whether or not the journal itself is a scam, that paper certainly proves something.
    Either the author (and, possibly, the journal's editor & peer-reviewer) has a sense of humour (but somewhat misplaced) or he shouldn't be trusted with any job requiring a modicum of rationality or scientific knowhow.
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    Well, I think that the tabulated differences between vapor/gason and sublimation/ejibomisation as presented in the paper makes any good thinking Scientist to have a rethought and see the contributions made.
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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jikepaddy View Post
    Let's also try to read without prejudice to really ascertain if the paper is proving something.
    What do you mean by "read without prejudice"? Do you mean, perhaps, accept what it says uncritically? Or should we treat it with the same scepticism that we would any other scientific paper?
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    It might take decades for the work to be given some credit. It is normal
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  32. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jikepaddy View Post
    Well, I think that the tabulated differences between vapor/gason and sublimation/ejibomisation as presented in the paper makes any good thinking Scientist to have a rethought and see the contributions made.
    All it says, in 7 different ways, is that steam is hot and ice-cold vapour is cold.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jikepaddy View Post
    It might take decades for the work to be given some credit. It is normal
    You are presuming things not in evidence. You are assuming that there's credit to be given -- why is that? It is "normal" for specious nonsense to be dismissed rapidly. The paper -- and the journal that published it -- stinks like unrefrigerated week-old fish. There's nothing more to the story. The paper is, again, crap. That you found the paper at all raises suspicions, and the fact that you are defending it with such persistence signals to me the likelihood that you are one of the authors, or a shill for the sham publisher.
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  35. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jikepaddy View Post
    Well, I think that the tabulated differences between vapor/gason and sublimation/ejibomisation as presented in the paper makes any good thinking Scientist to have a rethought and see the contributions made.
    Let me make it simple. THERE ARE NO RESULTS in the "paper.

    The "tabulated differences" you refer to are not data at all. They are just assertions of difference.

    Where are the MEASUREMENTS that provide EVIDENCE for a different state of matter?

    The only measurements that seem to have been taken are:

    1) measuring the temperature at whicb vapour was said to be formed, when the water sample was heated (this made me burst out laughing) This was, apparently at 100C. No shit, Sherlock.

    2) measuring the temperature of the sample that was put in the freezer for 7 days. This reached a temperature of -10C. How fascinating.

    3) various motions of litmus paper: apparently the emanations from the boiling water made the paper move more than those from the ice. Big surprise there.

    4) the litmus paper was used to show the emanations were neither acid nor alkali (big surprise there too)

    5) Both emanations turn anhydrous copper sulphate blue, showing they both are composed of (I burst out laughing for the second time at this point) WATER!!!

    NOWHERE is there ANY attempt to analyse ANYTHING about the emanation from the ice to show it is anything different from ordinary water vapour - or a mixture of water vapour with cold air chilled by it, which is what one would expect. It was not isolated. None of its physical or chemical properties were measured. No latent heats were measured for any phase changes to and from this alleged state. No attempt was made to distinguish it by its spectrum. Nothing whatever to show there was anything different from ordinary water vapour present.

    The whole paper is a farce, a joke. It demonstrates nothing apart from the sense of humour of whoever wrote it, or, if it is intended seriously, which I have trouble really believing, then immense, grotesque, delusional, terminal levels of stupidity on the part of the author.
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  36. #35 New state of water 
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    "Gason: A New State of Water".@ AASCIT - Journal - All Issues

    Could this be a discovery or not? In my own opinion there might be some truths to this work.

    Do you think that water vapor and cold gaseous particles from ice are the same?

    This work, though much criticised, feels that vapor and gaseous particles from frozen water are different states of water.
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    Apparently exposure to Gason (or junk science) can cause memory loss.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  39. #38  
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    Dupe thread.
    Fixin' shit that ain't broke.
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  40. #39  
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    But we won't be duped.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  41. #40  
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    These scam journals have to get publicity somehow Reported as spam.
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  42. #41  
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    I'm happy to know that this journal ajst might be a scam, together we'll fight.
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  43. #42  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jikepaddy View Post
    I'm happy to know that this journal ajst might be a scam, together we'll fight.
    And yet, despite it being shown to be (a) bad science and (b) probably a scam journal, you post the same thing.

    How much are they paying you for this?
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  44. #43  
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    Let's make sure that we can defend all our statements beyond reasonable doubt.
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  45. #44  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jikepaddy View Post
    Let's make sure that we can defend all our statements beyond reasonable doubt.
    Can you?
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  46. #45  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jikepaddy View Post
    Let's make sure that we can defend all our statements beyond reasonable doubt.
    The question, not statement, was: "How much are they paying you for this?", the "they" in question being the scam journal. You could easily dispel some of the suspicion by a plausible denial of any involvement with the journal. But you haven't done this, I notice.

    And why are you so keen to argue there could be something in this notion? Do you have any special reason for believing it yourself? Are you perhaps not a stooge for the scam journal, but its unwitting dupe? Are you, in fact, the author of the "paper", for example?

    Regarding the idea itself, as I pointed out in your other copy of this thread, there is no data in this ridiculous paper to support any such state and there is no reason from any other source to think it might exist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jikepaddy View Post
    "Gason: A New State of Water".@ AASCIT - Journal - All Issues

    Could this be a discovery or not? In my own opinion there might be some truths to this work.

    Do you think that water vapor and cold gaseous particles from ice are the same?

    This work, though much criticised, feels that vapor and gaseous particles from frozen water are different states of water.
    Authors
    [1] Ejikeme P. Nwosu , Research and Development Department, Lumos Laboratories and Company; 28 Narayi RD., Sabon Tasha, Kaduna South, Kaduna State, Nigeria.
    LOL,

    A new form of the "Nigerian scam".
    "jikepaddy" you wouldn't happen to be Ejikeme P. Nwosu, would you? :-)
    exchemist likes this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jikepaddy View Post
    I'm happy to know that this journal ajst might be a scam, together we'll fight.
    Let me guess, you need some money to be wired for your "fight", right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    What about bonesman einstein constant, and plasma arent those also states?
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  50. #49  
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    Quote Originally Posted by frumpydolphin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    What about bonesman einstein constant, and plasma arent those also states?
    "Bonesman"? Boltzmann? Can you elucidate?
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  51. #50  
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    Quote Originally Posted by frumpydolphin View Post
    What about bonesman einstein constant, and plasma arent those also states?
    I assume you mean Bose–Einstein condensate?

    While these can be considered extra states of matter, neither applies to water. But then, neither does "gason" which isn't even a thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by frumpydolphin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    What about bonesman einstein constant, and plasma arent those also states?
    Yes, they are states. Of ignorance.
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  53. #52  
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    There are actually about 19 forms of water known (Ice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) though 17 of those are solids. I suppose they're different states though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiMaster View Post
    There are actually about 19 forms of water known (Ice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) though 17 of those are solids. I suppose they're different states though.
    It depends on whether you want to define different lattice geometry as a different state. Ultimately, these are all definitions, so its sort of up to the democracy of scientific authors. However, if one were to define different lattices as unique phases, categorizing things like mis-matched lattice constant interfaces (For example, in semiconductors) would become problematic. Easier to just say its all solid.
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  55. #54  
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    (I just realized I left out a not at the end of that.)
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    I thought your phrasing was a bit strange, but I wasn't going to question it. That makes more sense.
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  57. #56  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajarjour View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MagiMaster View Post
    There are actually about 19 forms of water known (Ice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) though 17 of those are solids. I suppose they're different states though.
    It depends on whether you want to define different lattice geometry as a different state. Ultimately, these are all definitions, so its sort of up to the democracy of scientific authors. However, if one were to define different lattices as unique phases, categorizing things like mis-matched lattice constant interfaces (For example, in semiconductors) would become problematic. Easier to just say its all solid.
    I suppose they are allotropes, which would warrant their own place in a phase diagram and would have a latent heat of transition from one phase to another. But I agree they are hardly different states.
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    Agreed, exchemist. Basically, from my point of view, if you want to say that something is actually a different phase, you need to show that it has significantly different properties than the other phases. From that model, it makes sense, for instance, to define superfluids as different states than fluids (zero viscosity, unique wave-function, generally awesome vs regular) or plasmas as different states than gases (very conductive vs. often insulating).
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