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Thread: NEGATIVE MASS

  1. #1 NEGATIVE MASS 
    Forum Professor leohopkins's Avatar
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    Would anyone like to make any comments on negative mass ?


    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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    Forum Ph.D. william's Avatar
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    I don't think there is any evidence for it, but...
    I won't discard it outright.

    And there has been some serious thought on this (a quick search gives these);

    Bondi, H. "Negative Mass in General Relativity," Reviews of Modern Physics, Vol. 29, No.3, July 1957, pp. 423-428.

    Forward, R. L. "Negative Matter Propulsion", Journal of Propulsion and Power (AIAA), Vol. 6, No. 1, Jan.-Feb. 1990, pp. 28-37.

    Hoffmann, Banesh. "Negative Mass," Science Journal, April 1965, pp. 74-78.
    If mass leads to an attractive gravity, then does a negative mass lead to a repulsive type of 'gravity?' There is evidence that dark energy exists, and it seems to want to repel the universe (the universe seems to expand faster than what we expect). So maybe this is not such a crazy idea.

    Cheers,
    william


    Edit: Here is a short discussion about negative mass from the University of Delaware.
    http://www.udel.edu/mvb/PS146htm/146nosr6.html
    And here is an interesting conversation between John Baez (a bigwig in physics) and someone who appears to be from SLAC (Stanford Linear Accelerator Center).
    http://www.lns.cornell.edu/spr/1999-08/msg0017728.html


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    I have started a new thread in pseudoscience regarding negative matter so please add anymore stuff you have to say there.

    Zelos, I really dont understand why you would think that negative matter would attract itself ?

    It WOULDNT. Its gravitational pull would also be "negative".
    Although, yes I think that positive mass matter WOULD attract negative matter but negative matter would repel the positive mass matter. SO...what we would have is a tug of war going on. However as negative matter could ONLY exist in single particles as they dont clump together due to their negative gravity. Generally speaking a proton or at least the beginnings of one would have a much higher quantum positive gravitational field than say a neutrino, which I think has a negative mass, therefore the proton could easily suck in the neutrino where it will stay, giving the proton less mass than the neutron until the proton decays into a neutron + an electron + a neutrino.
    i simply use newtons formula
    F=GM<sub>1</sub>M<sub>2</sub>/r²
    if one mass is negative and the other posetive repulsion aaccure since the force is negative
    if both is negative or posetive they attract since 1*1=(-1)*(-1)=1

    neutrino got posetive mass it has been determend case closed

    Now; lets take a photon which has NO mass. would it not be fair to say that a photon is possibly a mass AND a negative mass particle at the same time, giving its overall rest mass zero.

    There are some theories out there which seem to suggest that anti matter is matter which is going back in time. this is complete rubbish;

    However if it were found that negative mass exists and indeed a photon is made from a positive mass and a negative mass of equal values so that its net rest mass was 0. Could it be that negative mass is going back in time and therefore that is the reason why photons do not experience time as they are going forward in time and the same time as going backwards in time. So that a photon's net mass is ZERO and a photons net reference of time is ZERO.
    if this were the case we wouldnt be able to see since they would stand still, and matter cant no matter how it is travel backward throu time. Its impossible thou to thermodynamic laws that aplies to ALL matter of ALL kind
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

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  5. #4 Re: NEGATIVE MASS 
    Forum Ph.D. Steve Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leohopkins
    Would anyone like to make any comments on negative mass ?
    Hello leohopkins!

    Could you specify 'negative mass', please?

    Steve 8)
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  6. #5  
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    normal mass but is negative and experience a opposite gravitational pull
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

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  7. #6  
    Forum Ph.D. Steve Miller's Avatar
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    Can this be real?

    Steve
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    nope. no experiments show any indication of this bieng possible but for the sake of FTL i do hope it is but for now i stick with the facts and say no it dont
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

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    i don't see how you can have a negative mass, it's like saying there is minus 1 sheep in the field
    Come see some of my art work at http://nevyn-pendragon.deviantart.com/
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  10. #9  
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    Negative mass LMAO! explain exactly what you mean by it.
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  11. #10  
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    Doesn't seem he likes his thread very much.

    Steve
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  12. #11  
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    negative mass would most likly be matter generating a curvature of spacetime that is the oppposite of what normal mass does
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

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  13. #12 Negative mass 
    Forum Professor leohopkins's Avatar
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    By negative mass I mean a particle of apparent mass which gives off a negative mass particle which results in the original particle appearing to gain mass. Negative mass particles could also be going back in time. So a photon could be made of a particle of mass and a particle of negative mass, this would allow the overall rest mass to be zero. This could also explain why photons do not experience time, as they will be going forwards AND backwards in time, resulting in no time. This MAY also explain some of the particle/wave dualities which light seems to exhibit.
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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  14. #13  
    Forum Ph.D. Steve Miller's Avatar
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    Interesting. Matter, anti - matter explained plus an enhancement

    Steve
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Miller
    Interesting. Matter, anti - matter explained plus an enhancement

    Steve
    if you mean antimatter as in negative mass NO! antimatter got posetive mass
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  16. #15  
    Forum Ph.D. Steve Miller's Avatar
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    Hi, Zelos!

    Sounds kind of illogical to me. Although mass of antimatter does not have to have a negative value.

    Steve
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Miller
    Hi, Zelos!

    Sounds kind of illogical to me. Although mass of antimatter does not have to have a negative value.

    Steve
    why does it sound illogical?
    anti-matter is normal matter with the opposite charge. not opposite MASS
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

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  18. #17  
    Forum Ph.D. Steve Miller's Avatar
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    Please forgive my ignorance. Since when was matter charged?
    I refer to the article within the link.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter_%28physics%29

    Steve
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Miller
    Please forgive my ignorance. Since when was matter charged?
    I refer to the article within the link.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter_%28physics%29

    Steve
    since the dawn of time when it was all constructed by electrons, quarks and some uncharged ones caleld neutrinos
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

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  20. #19  
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    Seems to be back a while. Matter has discharged meanwhile, possibly?

    Steve
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Miller
    Seems to be back a while. Matter has discharged meanwhile, possibly?

    Steve
    further explination is required
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

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  22. #21  
    Forum Ph.D. Steve Miller's Avatar
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    Just a thought. Charged materials will discharge. A matter of time!
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  23. #22  
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    Steve,

    You are applying the rules of classical physics to quantum theory - well it don't work that way!

    You'd have more luck using the rules of 'Monopoly[the game]' to determine the speed of light.
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  24. #23  
    Forum Ph.D. Steve Miller's Avatar
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    Hello!

    Yes, Megabrain you're right. I should not do that. Good analogy, I love it. But, the charged matter was not bad either.

    Steve
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Miller
    Hello!

    Yes, Megabrain you're right. I should not do that. Good analogy, I love it. But, the charged matter was not bad either.

    Steve
    nope you really shouldnt. Shame on you
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  26. #25 Monopoly board 
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    Funny you should mention the monopoly board, I used one of those once as a Ouija board (as i didnt have a proper ouija board) anyway, everytime i past go the glass spelt out "You owe me £200"

    Steve, Negative mass is not anti-matter. Negative mass has not yet been proven (which is why this is in pseudoscience) although common sense and logic tells me that negative mass could exist.

    an atom of hydrogen has no over-all charge, just as an anti-atom of hydrogen has no over all charge.

    Okay. The most basic form of hydrogen is one electron orbiting a Proton. the electron has a negative charge and the proton has a positive charge. They balance each other out and the overall charge is cancelled.

    Now anti-hydrogen has the same 2 "bits" but instead the electron carries a POSITIVE charge (and is called a positron) and the PROTON carries the negative charge, we call it an anti-proton (unless it has any other special name but I cant remember if it does)

    Furthermore, it has been postulated that anti-matter could be normal matter but travelling backwards in time. this doesnt make any sense to me because if this were the case then surely that would have to mean that anti-matter would end up in a "big crunch"
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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  27. #26  
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    Negative mass was not anti matter. Sure. This one I got wrong! The electron, proton thingy I was used to.

    We were not talking about specific particles but matter. To make that clear. Further, I also would doubt
    some materials indeed traveling back, or forth in time. Hence, matter traveling backwards in time and so
    becoming anti-matter was not a good start for antimatter to be, imo.

    Steve
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    common sense and logic tells me that negative mass could exist.
    common sense has nothing to do with the universe

    Okay. The most basic form of hydrogen is one electron orbiting a Proton. the electron has a negative charge and the proton has a positive charge. They balance each other out and the overall charge is cancelled.
    pointing out OVERALL some charge is still penetrating it since if it didnt it would never become a liquid

    Furthermore, it has been postulated that anti-matter could be normal matter but travelling backwards in time. this doesnt make any sense to me because if this were the case then surely that would have to mean that anti-matter would end up in a "big crunch"
    this was just claimed by somekinda crackpot
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  29. #28  
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    Well I've seen more definitions of 'negative' mass here than grains of sand on blackpool beach!

    So far the only one I'd give any consideration to is that which said 'it curves space the other way' - I like that - it implies antigravity and it nicely sticks with it's own kind. - boy I wish I had a bucket of it!

    Just think - a negative mass spanner - put it down and zammo - i'ts on it's way to rigel 7! another bloody hole in the roof!

    How nice to make parachutes out of it for those you don't like!

    How about negative mass protium - would that go down like a lead balloon?
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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    So far the only one I'd give any consideration to is that which said 'it curves space the other way' - I like that - it implies antigravity and it nicely sticks with it's own kind. - boy I wish I had a bucket of it!
    I really like that idea. You have to take into account that it warps spacetime the other way though, and I'd love to see a brainstorm of what that would mean exactly. For an observer, somebody near an intense negative-gravity field would appear to...speed up? That's even more confusing than usual.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neutrino
    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    So far the only one I'd give any consideration to is that which said 'it curves space the other way' - I like that - it implies antigravity and it nicely sticks with it's own kind. - boy I wish I had a bucket of it!
    I really like that idea. You have to take into account that it warps spacetime the other way though, and I'd love to see a brainstorm of what that would mean exactly. For an observer, somebody near an intense negative-gravity field would appear to...speed up? That's even more confusing than usual.
    No no no - don't boil my head with that - let's keep it simple - to all intents and purposes it's like ordinary matter but is repelled buy it.

    If you go down the road of 'it bends space and time' then it's like a double negative, it repels gravity but travels back in time ergo it falls to earth - maybe we are standing on a pile of it!
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  32. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neutrino
    I really like that idea. You have to take into account that it warps spacetime the other way though, and I'd love to see a brainstorm of what that would mean exactly. For an observer, somebody near an intense negative-gravity field would appear to...speed up? That's even more confusing than usual.
    Due to the properties of negative mass, it could never clump itsself together, it would ALWAYS repel both itself, and normal matter. Which is just aswell for a negative-mass black hole could erm........OH !
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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  33. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by leohopkins
    Quote Originally Posted by Neutrino
    I really like that idea. You have to take into account that it warps spacetime the other way though, and I'd love to see a brainstorm of what that would mean exactly. For an observer, somebody near an intense negative-gravity field would appear to...speed up? That's even more confusing than usual.
    Due to the properties of negative mass, it could never clump itsself together, it would ALWAYS repel both itself, and normal matter. Which is just aswell for a negative-mass black hole could erm........OH !
    thats where youre wrong my friend
    Negative matter would attract each other but repel posetive matter.

    (-1)*(-1)=1*1=1

    hence same matter will attract and different matter will repell. the spacetime curvation would be the opposite thou wich would be awesome
    but i still say for now its impossible but id be glad to be proven wrong
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

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  34. #33  
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    Actually Id have to say that negative mass, having the opposite curvature would repel another piece of negative mass. With regards to negative matter meeting positive matter the two different curvatures of space time would teselate, and negative mass would very rarely bump into positive mass.
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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  35. #34  
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    einsteins is the same as newtonian in that case, same kind of matter attract and different repel. the opposite of EM
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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