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  1. #1 ghosts 
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    hope this is the right place for this...

    ok, ghosts. do you believe in them? general thoughts on them? I'm not sure what my opinions on them are myself, so i thought i'd start a discussion on it to see what kind of ideas you folks have.


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  3. #2 Re: ghosts 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemboy
    hope this is the right place for this...

    ok, ghosts. do you believe in them? general thoughts on them? I'm not sure what my opinions on them are myself, so i thought i'd start a discussion on it to see what kind of ideas you folks have.
    I believe it's a possibility. However, 99.9% of the time there is an alternative explanation to ghost activity.


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  4. #3  
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    Even if ghost do exist, I often wonder if they are actually self aware entites.

    I've heard some interesting theories that suggest that a ghost or appriration is nothing more than a kind of impartial photoelectric emission that occurs whithin three dimensional space. An emission that can often be seen by the human eye. Human beings do possess a degree of electromagnetic energy - and when ever an individual experiences something extremely shocking or traumatic, it may some how leave an emotional imprint, so to speak, whithin that space.

    An experience such as death, murder or extreme pain. Sometimes the image might move or replay like a tape recording that has been looped. Some even say that most people leave these 'imprints' all the time as a result of minor stress orientated situations that happen within our daily lives but we just realize it. Again, only when the experiences are extreme, do they leave in their wake a sort of hyper-energized residue that can be visually observed.

    It may also be that these 'imprints' or 'images' are susceptible to their immediate environments. Lighting, temperature, raidiowaves, airborn particles, infrastructures and the materials of which they'er made of, other direct human activiy and possibly the 'imprints' location in relation to polar or even lunar effects. All of these could be prominent factors in determining if wether or not the most potent image can even be detected.
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  5. #4  
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    The eyes are known to play tricks in low light - most of this is the brain struggling to makes sense of vague outlines by filling them in - hence you can see things apparently 'move'. That's all there is to it, as for photography the film is sensitive to the same range of light we are so if the camera sees it, you should also. Two other things happen with cameras, one is the obvious 'double exposure, and another is deformalities in the film emulsion which will produce non-uniform areas on the finished print. Outside the camers light plays tricks in the lensing system. Ghosts? - no such thing.
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Ghosts? - no such thing.
    One must admire the consistency of approach that declares a closed mind is necessary in all things at all times.

    Ghosts? I've only seen them twice , plus an auditory manifestation heard by myself and several others on a half dozen occasions.
    Personally, I don't believe in them.

    P.S. It is all a matter of definition.
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  7. #6  
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    Agreed. It is my theory as well that ghost do not exsist.


    "Theory" being the key word. I wouldn't be so quick to see it as an absolution.
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  8. #7  
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    One must admire the consistency of approach that declares a closed mind is necessary in all things at all times.
    Ghosts do not exist. In a semantical argument, "does not exist" versus, "may not exist, but I am open to the possibility" one is clearly defining a system of epistemology - one that need not be agreed upon.

    For me Mars only exists as a social construct. Its existence is defined by my view thereof. In actuality, it is all in flux, all energy. This ontological component is but one issue that you criticism does not address. Indeed, one could say that every statement is an expression of power. After all, there is no rational method of 'deciding'. One can only prefer certain types of evidence, rely on certain criteria. The method of selection, discrimination is always subjective, if not even mostly subconscious.

    As such, your statement was generalising. :P

    --

    As for the actual ghosts - I'm not one for the metaphysical. I find it hard to believe something exists beyond.. I'm too focused on this life anyway to give any credence to stories.

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    Simply saying that a large complex function cannot remain in regular earth for a longer period of time doesn't make it so. I believe in cases like this, you make the assumption that they do exist and then prove the opposit.

    That would be the only sane thing to do in such self-affecting issues.
    For instance, making the assumption that there is no atomic bomb, might loose you that war, won't it?

    Conclusion after solution after assumption
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  10. #9  
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    Simply saying that a large complex function cannot remain in regular earth for a longer period of time doesn't make it so. I believe in cases like this, you make the assumption that they do exist and then prove the opposit.
    You mean like the existence of God? I don't understand how you can prove leprechauns don't exist.

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    That's simple, you simply define earth as something that cannot produce a very large function, like throwing a rock, intentionally
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeavingQuietly
    That's simple, you simply define earth as something that cannot produce a very large function, like throwing a rock, intentionally
    Ah but others might say "The earth intentionally threw millions of tons of rock into the iar at Mount St Helens to relieve internal pressures".
    I wouldn't but others might.
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    Yes, but it doesn't mean that a complex task that might have bigger consequences then a volcano still very simple to preform can be preformed by the earth and if this very small procentual part of the common earth substance, temporarily has the intelligence of a "god", but the force of a butterfly, can it create a hurricane? Can it create a biological organism? can it given enough time create a man?
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  14. #13 Re: ghosts 
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemboy
    hope this is the right place for this...

    ok, ghosts. do you believe in them? general thoughts on them? I'm not sure what my opinions on them are myself, so i thought i'd start a discussion on it to see what kind of ideas you folks have.
    I believe that a ghost is a creation of the person(s) experiencing it. I believe it can be a physical phenomena as well as auditory. Our minds are very powerful.

    I have experienced a pultergeist before. Actually a few times in my basement. I would be upstairs and a chair might move and I would think nothing of it because I know someone is down there. Then they come walking in the room with me and I go: "wow, who the hell is downstairs???". Only happened a couple of times though. Who knows what it really is.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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  15. #14 Re: ghosts 
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemboy
    hope this is the right place for this...

    ok, ghosts. do you believe in them? general thoughts on them? I'm not sure what my opinions on them are myself, so i thought i'd start a discussion on it to see what kind of ideas you folks have.
    I believe that a ghost is a creation of the person(s) experiencing it. I believe it can be a physical phenomena as well as auditory. Our minds are very powerful.

    I have experienced a pultergeist before. Actually a few times in my basement. I would be upstairs and a chair might move and I would think nothing of it because I know someone is down there. Then they come walking in the room with me and I go: "wow, who the hell is downstairs???". Only happened a couple of times though. Who knows what it really is.

    As well as your mind being able to conjure images [ie dreams] do you not think it might also conjure sounds? - and this could be the cause of your moving chairs?
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  16. #15 Re: ghosts 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    As well as your mind being able to conjure images [ie dreams] do you not think it might also conjure sounds? - and this could be the cause of your moving chairs?
    I think that is bad science; given a certain observation, the sound of a moving chair, your response is to fit the observation into your belief system, and suggest that it must have been imagined.

    We are scientists; first the observation, then the theory.

    Then the design of the experiment to measure predictions of the theory. That is where we have problems, because we do not know what to measure, or how to measure it, or even what we are measuring. [BTW, current theories holds that that dream are the means of re-inforcing recent learning, not simple conjuration.]

    I have family who have only had such experiences related to loved ones; I know people who had such experiences in "charged" areas, such as cemetaries and old houses; and I have had odd experiences myself ...

    So, given the range of experiences, I would not know exactly what to measure, never mind how to measure it. I doubt that the phenomenom could currently be measure in a lab, as it seems to be [to my knowledge] to be a social ability.

    I do not know anyone who has not had an experience that is inexplicable within current scientific knowledge. Even people who say they have never had one will tell a story of such an experience.

    So, do I believe in ghosts? I don't know, but the inexplicable happens.
    Why do they want us to believe Conspiracy Theories?
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  17. #16 Re: ghosts 
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    Quote Originally Posted by j
    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    As well as your mind being able to conjure images [ie dreams] do you not think it might also conjure sounds? - and this could be the cause of your moving chairs?
    I think that is bad science; given a certain observation, the sound of a moving chair, your response is to fit the observation into your belief system, and suggest that it must have been imagined.

    We are scientists; first the observation, then the theory.

    Then the design of the experiment to measure predictions of the theory. That is where we have problems, because we do not know what to measure, or how to measure it, or even what we are measuring. [BTW, current theories holds that that dream are the means of re-inforcing recent learning, not simple conjuration.]

    I have family who have only had such experiences related to loved ones; I know people who had such experiences in "charged" areas, such as cemetaries and old houses; and I have had odd experiences myself ...

    So, given the range of experiences, I would not know exactly what to measure, never mind how to measure it. I doubt that the phenomenom could currently be measure in a lab, as it seems to be [to my knowledge] to be a social ability.

    I do not know anyone who has not had an experience that is inexplicable within current scientific knowledge. Even people who say they have never had one will tell a story of such an experience.

    So, do I believe in ghosts? I don't know, but the inexplicable happens.

    First you need to ascertain it was an observation and not an illusion, then you can think about the theory, thus if the chair does NOT move but the subject believed they heard it move then science tells us it did not move and the observation was para-psychological and not real, for the chair to have moved, and for science to accept it as fact it requires repeatable experiment.

    I indicated a perfectly reasonable first course of investigation/thought, you admit to a lack of knowledge of scientific practice, so sit back and learn from someone who does not.
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