Notices
Results 1 to 44 of 44
Like Tree5Likes
  • 1 Post By Ascended
  • 1 Post By Strange
  • 1 Post By Ascended
  • 1 Post By WVBIG
  • 1 Post By babe

Thread: Serious opinions on this please

  1. #1 Serious opinions on this please 
    Forum Professor WVBIG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    1,059
    Bigfoot genome paper “conclusively proves” that Sasquatch is real | Ars Technica


    Steven
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    3,492
    There seems to be people out there seriously obsessed with the bigfoot, this is what about the 20th such thread in last few months. Can we mix it up a bit at least, maybe a few more werewolf or a even a few Loch Ness Monster threads just so we are being fair to all these myths.


    seagypsy likes this.
    “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.”

    Bertrand Russell
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,222
    My serious opinion?

    all indications suggest that the sasquatch hunters are working on a mix of human DNA intermingled with that of some other (or several other) mammals.
    The final line of the article says it all. (Unless you want to read the quite amusing comments.)
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Forum Masters Degree mat5592's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    601
    "conclusively proves." lol, nice!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    17,036
    Presumably, in your blind enthusiasm, once again you failed to read anything other than the headline? Not quite as embarrassing for you as your last thread, but we have had this discussion before: bad science, done badly and so the only way they could get it published was to create their own journal for it.
    Cogito Ergo Sum likes this.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    5,440
    Id comment but everything hs pretty much been said already, either here or in the massive Sasquatch thread from a couple of years ago. They do not exist.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    17,036
    deleted: too mean.
    Last edited by Strange; August 3rd, 2013 at 03:23 AM.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Professor WVBIG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    1,059
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Presumably, in your blind enthusiasm, once again you failed to read anything other than the headline? Not quite as embarrassing for you as your last thread, but we have had this discussion before: bad science, done badly and so the only way they could get it published was to create their own journal for it.
    That was my assumption too, especially when I saw Dr. Ketchum was charging $30 to read the paper. But since this journal has picked it up & Wikipedia doesn't say the normal things about the journal being for way out ideas, I'm starting to wonder if maybe there actually is something to it. She claims Dr. Todd Dissotel automatically assumed every bit of human DNA he found in the samples she submitted, was the result of contamination
    Steven
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    17,036
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    But since this journal has picked it up & Wikipedia doesn't say the normal things about the journal being for way out ideas, I'm starting to wonder if maybe there actually is something to it.
    When you say "this journal" what are you referring to? The only journal that has published this is Ketchum's own.

    She claims Dr. Todd Dissotel automatically assumed every bit of human DNA he found in the samples she submitted, was the result of contamination
    That would be my assumption as well. (Given the general quality of scientific process on display. "I know how I can get it through peer review: I'll review it myself!")
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Forum Professor WVBIG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    1,059
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    But since this journal has picked it up & Wikipedia doesn't say the normal things about the journal being for way out ideas, I'm starting to wonder if maybe there actually is something to it.
    When you say "this journal" what are you referring to? The only journal that has published this is Ketchum's own.

    She claims Dr. Todd Dissotel automatically assumed every bit of human DNA he found in the samples she submitted, was the result of contamination
    That would be my assumption as well. (Given the general quality of scientific process on display. "I know how I can get it through peer review: I'll review it myself!")
    I thought there was no room for assumption in the scientific process?
    Steven
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,328
    WVBIG, sasquatch is my backyard beast, and I know the Native cultures and history fairly well.

    There's more to this myth in the same way there's more to Santa Claus than just whether or not he's real. Can you look beyond the surface please to understand what I'm about to explain? Sasquatch, or really the wild-man idea serves a social function. Like how in many families the most expensive toys at Christmas come "from Santa", Sasquatch is told to children, or polite company, to save people from embarrassment. The embarrassed people are the Natives of British Columbia. The source of their embarrassment is the disgustingly high rates of severe alcoholism and drug abuse on reserves, in recent history. It's embodied by losers who skulk outside their communities. Feral people are still common enough that we've all encountered their trails, their weird nests, heard the uncanny roars they emit when they've gone zombie from solvents, in the woods. But why cover it up with a sasquatch story? The reason is that these are our uncles and our brothers who are outlaws and outcasts. We're ashamed. We can't explain this to our children.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    17,036
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    That would be my assumption as well. (Given the general quality of scientific process on display. "I know how I can get it through peer review: I'll review it myself!")
    I thought there was no room for assumption in the scientific process?
    Reading comprehension problems again?

    I'm not a scientist. I am not writing a peer-reviewed paper. You asked for opinions. I am giving my opinion based on what I know of the difficulties involved in handling samples for genetic testing.

    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    But since this journal has picked it up & Wikipedia doesn't say the normal things about the journal being for way out ideas, I'm starting to wonder if maybe there actually is something to it.
    When you say "this journal" what are you referring to? The only journal that has published this is Ketchum's own.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    5,440
    WVBig, Ketchum et al purposely bought and renamed an existing magazine when they could not get a regular peer reviewed journal to print their article. There is no evidence her article ever went through peer review.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Forum Professor WVBIG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    1,059
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    WVBig, Ketchum et al purposely bought and renamed an existing magazine when they could not get a regular peer reviewed journal to print their article. There is no evidence her article ever went through peer review.
    I know that & I told others the same thing. She even made a post on Facebook awhile back, claiming some scientist agreed with her & when I tried to Google him to see what his credentials were, I couldn't even find evidence that anyone by that name even exists. But I didn't read this article closely enough & thought they were backing her up. Are you saying there is no evidence her study passed peer review or no evidence it was even submitted for peer review?
    Steven
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Genius Duck Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    12,045
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    Are you saying there is no evidence her study passed peer review or no evidence it was even submitted for peer review?
    Since your own link states the team behind this startling research had some trouble publishing a paper describing their results it appears that it was submitted.
    So it could be that they did submit it for review, and it failed. Or possibly it was rejected before that.
    Either way - the only "peer review" that it did pass was from the editors/ owners of the magazine it was published in.
    And that magazine just happens to be the one that was bought by... the authors of the paper.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Forum Professor WVBIG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    1,059
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    Are you saying there is no evidence her study passed peer review or no evidence it was even submitted for peer review?
    Since your own link states the team behind this startling research had some trouble publishing a paper describing their results it appears that it was submitted.
    So it could be that they did submit it for review, and it failed. Or possibly it was rejected before that.
    Either way - the only "peer review" that it did pass was from the editors/ owners of the magazine it was published in.
    And that magazine just happens to be the one that was bought by... the authors of the paper.
    That's what I was thinking. The delays were caused by the multiple rejections. This paper was suppose to be out a couple years ago, at least
    Steven
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    3,492
    Look prooooooof! someone caught one on camera, they must real!

    babe likes this.
    “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.”

    Bertrand Russell
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    Forum Professor WVBIG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    1,059
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Look prooooooof! someone caught one on camera, they must real!

    I'm glad you posted this pic. I don't know how many pieces of video I've seen where the alleged Bigfoot has a head like this, which of course is made to accomodate the forehead of the human in the costume. If you look at the enlargement of the head of the subject of the Patterson Gimlin film, you'll see it starts sloping back almost immediately above the brow ridge like a gorilla's head
    Ascended likes this.
    Steven
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    5,440
    And if you look at population biology you see that its not possible for there to be a larger then human size primate living in North America undiscovered by science.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and Mainland relocated to the Bay Area.
    Posts
    13,227
    I have lived in the Pacific Northwest for years .......and we even have places called "Big Foot". "Big Foot" is a legend in people's minds. There have been multitudes of film shot, etc, to prove the existence, and none yet has been proven to be fact. Usually fake.

    Many cultures have their special "legends" based on story not on fact. "Big Foot" aka "Sasquatch" has been a legend of stories since I have lived here for 36 years and my husband for his entire lifetime. The legend started long ago, as did the "sightings".

    It is a lovely and fun story for around a campfire, but there has never been proof of "Big Foot" found in California, Oregon, Washington or BC to my knowledge.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #21  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,245
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    I'm glad you posted this pic. I don't know how many pieces of video I've seen where the alleged Bigfoot has a head like this, which of course is made to accomodate the forehead of the human in the costume. If you look at the enlargement of the head of the subject of the Patterson Gimlin film, you'll see it starts sloping back almost immediately above the brow ridge like a gorilla's head
    Steven, we have been over the Patterson Gimlin film exhaustively before and in virtually in every detail. There is just nothing close to being convincing of it being authentic. We have been over the gait, estimates of hight, supposed muscles ripples, the sloping forehead, the length and depth of the tracks, etc, etc, etc. There is serious doubt about all of it. Do you really still think it was a real Bigfoot in that film?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  23. #22  
    Forum Professor WVBIG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    1,059
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    I'm glad you posted this pic. I don't know how many pieces of video I've seen where the alleged Bigfoot has a head like this, which of course is made to accomodate the forehead of the human in the costume. If you look at the enlargement of the head of the subject of the Patterson Gimlin film, you'll see it starts sloping back almost immediately above the brow ridge like a gorilla's head
    Steven, we have been over the Patterson Gimlin film exhaustively before and in virtually in every detail. There is just nothing close to being convincing of it being authentic. We have been over the gait, estimates of hight, supposed muscles ripples, the sloping forehead, the length and depth of the tracks, etc, etc, etc. There is serious doubt about all of it. Do you really still think it was a real Bigfoot in that film?
    I have absolutely no doubt that it's authentic. Here is a link to an ongoing analysis of the film by Bill Munns. Bill Munns is a special effects costuming expert & a photogrametry expert. home
    Steven
    Reply With Quote  
     

  24. #23  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Flatland
    Posts
    5,438
    Selective perception.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
    Reply With Quote  
     

  25. #24  
    Forum Professor WVBIG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    1,059
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Selective perception.
    I'll bet you didn't even look at the link. THAT is selective perception
    Steven
    Reply With Quote  
     

  26. #25  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    5,440
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Selective perception.
    I'll bet you didn't even look at the link. THAT is selective perception
    And yet for years you have ignored the population dynamics and lack of fossil evidence problems
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  27. #26  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,245
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Selective perception.
    I'll bet you didn't even look at the link. THAT is selective perception
    And yet for years you have ignored the population dynamics and lack of fossil evidence problems
    He has come up with a variety of what he thinks are viable explanations, including that they are just very good at hiding and that they actively bury their dead under huge rocks.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  28. #27  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    5,440
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Selective perception.
    I'll bet you didn't even look at the link. THAT is selective perception
    And yet for years you have ignored the population dynamics and lack of fossil evidence problems
    He has come up with a variety of what he thinks are viable explanations, including that they are just very good at hiding and that they actively bury their dead under huge rocks.
    I remember. None are really viable options, and as problems with each were pointed out, he would come up with more elaborate reasons why.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  29. #28  
    Forum Professor WVBIG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    1,059
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Selective perception.
    I'll bet you didn't even look at the link. THAT is selective perception
    And yet for years you have ignored the population dynamics and lack of fossil evidence problems
    He has come up with a variety of what he thinks are viable explanations, including that they are just very good at hiding and that they actively bury their dead under huge rocks.
    I remember. None are really viable options, and as problems with each were pointed out, he would come up with more elaborate reasons why.
    The North American Great Ape Project by Dr. Meldrum & Dr. Myonczinski determined there is enough food sources for a breeding population of geat apes in North America. As for ignoring the fossil record, I remind you of the fossil record of Chimpanzees & then there is this: Lloyd Pye - Everything You Know Is Wrong - YouTube
    Steven
    Reply With Quote  
     

  30. #29  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    17,036
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    The North American Great Ape Project by Dr. Meldrum & Dr. Myonczinski determined there is enough food sources for a breeding population of geat apes in North America.
    Can you provide a link to their peer-reviewed paper(s) on this?

    I remind you of the fossil record of Chimpanzees
    You mean this, for example: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture04008.html

    what is your point?

    then there is this: Lloyd Pye - Everything You Know Is Wrong - YouTube
    You are determined not to be taken seriously, aren't you.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
    Reply With Quote  
     

  31. #30  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    5,440
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Selective perception.
    I'll bet you didn't even look at the link. THAT is selective perception
    And yet for years you have ignored the population dynamics and lack of fossil evidence problems
    He has come up with a variety of what he thinks are viable explanations, including that they are just very good at hiding and that they actively bury their dead under huge rocks.
    I remember. None are really viable options, and as problems with each were pointed out, he would come up with more elaborate reasons why.
    The North American Great Ape Project by Dr. Meldrum & Dr. Myonczinski determined there is enough food sources for a breeding population of geat apes in North America. As for ignoring the fossil record, I remind you of the fossil record of Chimpanzees & then there is this: Lloyd Pye - Everything You Know Is Wrong - YouTube

    Show the calculations here, and show why exactly NO specimens have been found. A viable breeding population WOULD be found very quickly. Im not talking about food sources, Im talking visibility of several thousand giant apes in very close proximity to humans.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  32. #31  
    Genius Duck Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    12,045
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    What's your point here?
    Deluded dishonest cranks are ten a penny.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  33. #32  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and Mainland relocated to the Bay Area.
    Posts
    13,227
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    I'm glad you posted this pic. I don't know how many pieces of video I've seen where the alleged Bigfoot has a head like this, which of course is made to accomodate the forehead of the human in the costume. If you look at the enlargement of the head of the subject of the Patterson Gimlin film, you'll see it starts sloping back almost immediately above the brow ridge like a gorilla's head
    Steven, we have been over the Patterson Gimlin film exhaustively before and in virtually in every detail. There is just nothing close to being convincing of it being authentic. We have been over the gait, estimates of hight, supposed muscles ripples, the sloping forehead, the length and depth of the tracks, etc, etc, etc. There is serious doubt about all of it. Do you really still think it was a real Bigfoot in that film?
    NO, you missed something!!!

    That was me in the morning the one time I had too much wine, including the sloping forehead.
    KALSTER likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  34. #33  
    Forum Professor WVBIG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    1,059
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    I'm glad you posted this pic. I don't know how many pieces of video I've seen where the alleged Bigfoot has a head like this, which of course is made to accomodate the forehead of the human in the costume. If you look at the enlargement of the head of the subject of the Patterson Gimlin film, you'll see it starts sloping back almost immediately above the brow ridge like a gorilla's head
    Steven, we have been over the Patterson Gimlin film exhaustively before and in virtually in every detail. There is just nothing close to being convincing of it being authentic. We have been over the gait, estimates of hight, supposed muscles ripples, the sloping forehead, the length and depth of the tracks, etc, etc, etc. There is serious doubt about all of it. Do you really still think it was a real Bigfoot in that film?
    NO, you missed something!!!

    That was me in the morning the one time I had too much wine, including the sloping forehead.
    Oh yeah. Making wisecracks is so much more scientific than actually checking things out. If I hadn't had my own sighting, I'd be willing to consider the possibility that Bigfoot doesn't exist. EXCEPT for skeptics like you. Want me to stop beleiving Bigfoot exists? Explain my sighting in an area no one knew I would be at. It wasn't a bear. I've seen plenty of them. If it was just a case of a hoaxers dumb luck, why didn't he keep doing it until he got some attention for it?
    Steven
    Reply With Quote  
     

  35. #34  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and Mainland relocated to the Bay Area.
    Posts
    13,227
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    I'm glad you posted this pic. I don't know how many pieces of video I've seen where the alleged Bigfoot has a head like this, which of course is made to accomodate the forehead of the human in the costume. If you look at the enlargement of the head of the subject of the Patterson Gimlin film, you'll see it starts sloping back almost immediately above the brow ridge like a gorilla's head
    Steven, we have been over the Patterson Gimlin film exhaustively before and in virtually in every detail. There is just nothing close to being convincing of it being authentic. We have been over the gait, estimates of hight, supposed muscles ripples, the sloping forehead, the length and depth of the tracks, etc, etc, etc. There is serious doubt about all of it. Do you really still think it was a real Bigfoot in that film?
    NO, you missed something!!!

    That was me in the morning the one time I had too much wine, including the sloping forehead.
    Oh yeah. Making wisecracks is so much more scientific than actually checking things out. If I hadn't had my own sighting, I'd be willing to consider the possibility that Bigfoot doesn't exist. EXCEPT for skeptics like you. Want me to stop beleiving Bigfoot exists? Explain my sighting in an area no one knew I would be at. It wasn't a bear. I've seen plenty of them. If it was just a case of a hoaxers dumb luck, why didn't he keep doing it until he got some attention for it?
    You didn't take a video?

    I mean if you want to prove it, then you should have taken out your IPHONE and video'd it?

    I don't believe in Big Foot.....and I have been here 36 years.....my husband since birth, his father, since birth..his grandfather and his great grandfather...and we have roamed the forests and hunted...and have yet to know anyone who has REALLY seen Sasquatch.

    It will remain a mystery...a great myth, which does delight those who live here, without doubt, but just a wonder story.

    I am not making fun of you. I may tease people, but I don't demean them.

    I just think Sasquatch isn't science....
    Reply With Quote  
     

  36. #35  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,328
    Babe, sasquatch wasn't conceived by white folks around campfires; it was devised by civilized Natives to explain savages.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

  37. #36  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,168
    The existence, or non-existence, of Bigfoot can be viewed in two ways.

    1) What evidence is there for Bigfoot?
    2) What evidence is there against Bigfoot?

    The evidence for is inadequate, consisting as it does of anecdotal material, disputed film and highly questionable tracks. Taken in total this evidence is very weak, but suggests that some phenomenon is present. (Note: that phenomenon may be human gullibility.)

    The evidence against is substantial, but not overwhelming. It is circumstantial. That said, any counter to this evidence would need to explain in a plausible and verifiable manner how a breeding population could survive without significant observation, or why no remains are ever found.

    On balance, despite a very strong wish that they did exist, I think the balance of probability is a strong No. However, each new sighting, or suspect artifact should be viewed objectively and not on the basis that 'they don't exist'.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  38. #37  
    Forum Professor WVBIG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    1,059
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    The existence, or non-existence, of Bigfoot can be viewed in two ways.

    1) What evidence is there for Bigfoot?
    2) What evidence is there against Bigfoot?

    The evidence for is inadequate, consisting as it does of anecdotal material, disputed film and highly questionable tracks. Taken in total this evidence is very weak, but suggests that some phenomenon is present. (Note: that phenomenon may be human gullibility.)

    The evidence against is substantial, but not overwhelming. It is circumstantial. That said, any counter to this evidence would need to explain in a plausible and verifiable manner how a breeding population could survive without significant observation, or why no remains are ever found.

    On balance, despite a very strong wish that they did exist, I think the balance of probability is a strong No. However, each new sighting, or suspect artifact should be viewed objectively and not on the basis that 'they don't exist'.
    Finally! A reasonable skeptic here. Thank you
    Steven
    Reply With Quote  
     

  39. #38  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    5,440
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    The existence, or non-existence, of Bigfoot can be viewed in two ways.

    1) What evidence is there for Bigfoot?
    2) What evidence is there against Bigfoot?

    The evidence for is inadequate, consisting as it does of anecdotal material, disputed film and highly questionable tracks. Taken in total this evidence is very weak, but suggests that some phenomenon is present. (Note: that phenomenon may be human gullibility.)

    The evidence against is substantial, but not overwhelming. It is circumstantial. That said, any counter to this evidence would need to explain in a plausible and verifiable manner how a breeding population could survive without significant observation, or why no remains are ever found.

    On balance, despite a very strong wish that they did exist, I think the balance of probability is a strong No. However, each new sighting, or suspect artifact should be viewed objectively and not on the basis that 'they don't exist'.
    Finally! A reasonable skeptic here. Thank you
    But will you at any point look objectively at the evidence against the existence WVBig?
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  40. #39  
    Forum Professor WVBIG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    1,059
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    The existence, or non-existence, of Bigfoot can be viewed in two ways.

    1) What evidence is there for Bigfoot?
    2) What evidence is there against Bigfoot?

    The evidence for is inadequate, consisting as it does of anecdotal material, disputed film and highly questionable tracks. Taken in total this evidence is very weak, but suggests that some phenomenon is present. (Note: that phenomenon may be human gullibility.)

    The evidence against is substantial, but not overwhelming. It is circumstantial. That said, any counter to this evidence would need to explain in a plausible and verifiable manner how a breeding population could survive without significant observation, or why no remains are ever found.

    On balance, despite a very strong wish that they did exist, I think the balance of probability is a strong No. However, each new sighting, or suspect artifact should be viewed objectively and not on the basis that 'they don't exist'.
    Finally! A reasonable skeptic here. Thank you
    But will you at any point look objectively at the evidence against the existence WVBig?
    I always do. Just because I think Lloyd Pye is onto something with his claim that remains of alleged early humans are actually the remains of bipedal apes, doesn't mean I'm not objective. He makes some very good points about the thickness of the bones & width of the jaws
    Steven
    Reply With Quote  
     

  41. #40  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    5,440
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    The existence, or non-existence, of Bigfoot can be viewed in two ways.

    1) What evidence is there for Bigfoot?
    2) What evidence is there against Bigfoot?

    The evidence for is inadequate, consisting as it does of anecdotal material, disputed film and highly questionable tracks. Taken in total this evidence is very weak, but suggests that some phenomenon is present. (Note: that phenomenon may be human gullibility.)

    The evidence against is substantial, but not overwhelming. It is circumstantial. That said, any counter to this evidence would need to explain in a plausible and verifiable manner how a breeding population could survive without significant observation, or why no remains are ever found.

    On balance, despite a very strong wish that they did exist, I think the balance of probability is a strong No. However, each new sighting, or suspect artifact should be viewed objectively and not on the basis that 'they don't exist'.
    Finally! A reasonable skeptic here. Thank you
    But will you at any point look objectively at the evidence against the existence WVBig?
    I always do. Just because I think Lloyd Pye is onto something with his claim that remains of alleged early humans are actually the remains of bipedal apes, doesn't mean I'm not objective. He makes some very good points about the thickness of the bones & width of the jaws
    Thats because early humans were STILL evolving from more ape like ancestors. Pye is a writer, not a biologist and does not understand the biology involved. He also firmly insists that we are only here due to alien manipulation.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  42. #41  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and Mainland relocated to the Bay Area.
    Posts
    13,227
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong View Post
    Babe, sasquatch wasn't conceived by white folks around campfires; it was devised by civilized Natives to explain savages.
    Yes, I know. I have friends in the tribes. However, that said, it has been perpetuated by the "White Man", so to speak.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  43. #42  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and Mainland relocated to the Bay Area.
    Posts
    13,227
    However, Pong.....it was devised around campfires. They really didn't have an alternative.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  44. #43  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,103
    Using the word "civilized" would imply that people were more advanced beyond the days of campfires as an only means of survival. I took "savage" to mean the opposite of civilized, meaning living wild in the woods outside of normal social structures of our species.

    civilized past participle, past tense of civ·i·lize (Verb)
    Verb

    Bring (a place or people) to a stage of social, cultural, and moral development considered to be more advanced: "a civilized society".
    Polite and well-mannered.
    source

    1
    a : not domesticated or under human control : untamed <savage beasts>
    b : lacking the restraints normal to civilized human beings : fierce, ferocious <a savage criminal>
    2
    : wild, uncultivated <seldom have I seen such savage scenery — Douglas Carruthers>
    3
    a : boorish, rude <the savage bad manners of most motorists — M. P. O'Connor>
    b : malicious
    4
    : lacking complex or advanced culture : uncivilized <a savage country>
    source
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  45. #44  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,328
    Right. And every civilization has always had some savages (outlaws, outcasts, hermits, etc. ) skulking the fringes. The region with most concentrated Native population, quite suddenly staggered with alcoholism and dispersed from their homes, gave birth to sasquatch. Natives who retained their civilization, or adapted to the new, couldn't entirely ignore those who got lost in the transition. So to answer your child about that weird hooting in the forest, that might be her uncle, of course you lie. You'd lie to the Mounties too, and anyone else who asks.

    Seems most savages today are a subset of the urban homeless. We say they have serious mental health and/or substance abuse issues... which was true enough long before we coined the terms.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. Opinions
    By Eldritch in forum Philosophy
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: March 4th, 2014, 10:58 PM
  2. opinions
    By deiza in forum Chemistry
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: March 22nd, 2013, 07:40 AM
  3. Opinions
    By Heinsbergrelatz in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: March 20th, 2010, 09:06 PM
  4. Your opinions please
    By WVBIG in forum Biology
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: August 26th, 2009, 08:32 AM
  5. Your opinions please
    By WVBIG in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: August 26th, 2009, 08:31 AM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •