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Thread: How does Bell's theorem deny the deterministic behaviour of Nature?

  1. #1 How does Bell's theorem deny the deterministic behaviour of Nature? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RAJ_K View Post
    There is no theory in Quantom Mechanics which deny the deterministic behavior of Nature.
    Bell's theorem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    First read here, then answer yes, or no:
    Does Bell's theorem it invalidate determinism?
    If yes, how does it invalidate determinism?


    Then read these:
    or does it disagree with determinism on the part of the 'behaviour of Nature',
    but adds a new idea on non-local determinism on top of the part of the 'behavior of Nature' to be 'the universal deterministic behavior of Nature and non-local factors and reactions'?

    What i meant would be:

    1) Nature = local
    2) Bell's theorem supports non-local determinism, which adds on to the deterministic behaviour of Nature..
    3) Things also are determined by factors and chain reactions that happen faster than the speed of light in the determinism.


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  3. #2  
    Forum Professor river_rat's Avatar
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    Bell's theorem invalidates most traditional forms of local hidden variable theories. The standard implication is that you must either believe the universe is super-deterministic (so counterfactual definiteness is meaningless) or non-local (so the hidden variables can update each other at superluminal speeds) as the correlation bounds on the experiment are broken in the real world. However, non-local determinism combined with special relativity typically implies causality is broken.

    Note that two things happen here, its the experimental result of doing the bell experiment combined with the theorem that cause the problems.


    As is often the case with technical subjects we are presented with an unfortunate choice: an explanation that is accurate but incomprehensible, or comprehensible but wrong.
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    causality = things happen with a cause.

    non-local determinism = things happen with a cause, but can happen at superluminal speeds.

    non-local determinism = non-local casuality?

    so bell's theorm shows there is non-local casuality?
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  5. #4  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Here is a good non-technical explanation: Bell's Theorem: Physics
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanawe123 View Post
    3) Things also are determined by factors and chain reactions that happen faster than the speed of light in the determinism.
    Nothing happens (strictly, no information is communicated) faster than light. That is what "local" means.
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    Local: Nothing happens (strictly, no information is communicated) faster than light.
    Non-Local: Things can happen (information can be communicated) faster than light.

    Quote Originally Posted by river_rat View Post
    Bell's theorem invalidates most traditional forms of local hidden variable theories.

    Paraphrase: Bell's theorem shows that no information can be communicated faster than light.

    Is it?
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  8. #7  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanawe123 View Post
    Paraphrase: Bell's theorem shows that no information can be communicated faster than light.

    Is it?[/COLOR]
    Here is a good non-technical explanation: Bell's Theorem: Physics
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  9. #8  
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    Oh i read it, the experiment shows "Bell's theorem has been experimentally tested and showed that locality must fail"
    showing that non-locality interactions can happen.
    thanks for letting me the website.

    So what is determinism?
    can it be: in the future, a bomb (that has a trigger detonated when the observed particle decays) will fire at e.g. 70 days from now, and the exact time and reason the particle decays, is not due to nothing (acausality), but rather determined by a non-local interaction?
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