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Thread: AWARE study. Consciousness outside the brain/Afterlife

  1. #1 AWARE study. Consciousness outside the brain/Afterlife 
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    I started a thread on this topic yesterday but it was moved straight to the pseudoscience, even though I feel I provided scientific references.

    So now, I am starting a new thread with less referrences... I am only going to provide referrences to a creditable scientific experiment which is still on going in our hospitals across the lands.

    The mans name is Sam Parnia and the study is called AWARE. Please check it out.

    AWAREStudy

    The AWARE Study

    * Thread deleted as we don't really like the daily mail, or their articals.

    So this is a robust scientific study into consciousness existing outside of the brain.

    Though the study has been on going for a few years, no results seem to be available yet.

    Do any of you know of any results that have been published? If so can you share them with us?


    This is science... if this ends up in pseudo science forum then we will all have clear evidence that there is an ellement at work who simply will not tollerate any evidence or suggestion that consciousness can live outside of the brain, that life continues after 'death', and that materialism is not the be all and end all and is not a worthy philosophical outlook.

    Therefor this thread in itself is an experiment... not a great one because it is telling the subjects (administrators and moderators) that they are part of an experiment... which ofcourse might well influence their actions, which might undermine the experiment... but at least in that case the thread will keep it's entitlement to be listed in the proper scientific forums of the website, rather than the psuedoscience.

    As a point of interest... I went into the psychology and behaviour forum to start this new thread, and I noted that three threads contained in the titles mention of afterlife, NDE, consciousness outside the brain and ESP... those three threads were all put in pseudo science!

    People can talk about black holes, dark matter, space expanding and all kinds of wild yet bassically irrelevant subjects... but when you speak about spirituality then it goes straight into pseudoscience, or at least thats how it seems at the moment.

    However, Sam Parnia is a medical scientist with state of the art technology and this AWARE study cannot be called false science...

    I'm interested to know if anybody has anymore info on the results of the AWARE study? Also, what are you thoughts on this subject generally?

    Let the experiment begin.




    Last edited by question for you; January 10th, 2013 at 01:31 PM.
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    Here is a link to a short video explaining his reasons for carrying out the AWARE stdy:

    Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it :Pseudoscience - Page 35 • Rational Skepticism Forum

    Unfortunately this website has also decided to put 'speudoscience' in the link's title... how they justifiy the claim that this is false science, I have no clue. It's blatent preconcieved bias against the concept... which as we all know, is about as pseudoscientific as it gets.


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    Forum Professor scoobydoo1's Avatar
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    Can you clarify which aspects of NDEs belong to this particular subforum? I would have thought a query into what happens to the brain during cardiac arrest belongs to the biology subforum instead.
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  5. #4  
    Anti-Crank AlexG's Avatar
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    Duplicate thread. You've already started a thread on this.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
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    Quote Originally Posted by question for you View Post
    Here is a link to a short video explaining his reasons for carrying out the AWARE stdy:

    Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it :Pseudoscience - Page 35 • Rational Skepticism Forum

    Unfortunately this website has also decided to put 'speudoscience' in the link's title... how they justifiy the claim that this is false science, I have no clue. It's blatent preconcieved bias against the concept... which as we all know, is about as pseudoscientific as it gets.
    There's no data, or credible empirical evidence that it has anything to do with an outer body anything, that's why.

    And in that thread they mention that Sam Parnia is going to publish a book, before apparently there's been any peer review scientific articles about the project.

    We can let this stand for a day or so, and hope perhaps someone adds some hard empirical observational research about parts of the brain that might be active during near death experiences or what not--probably the main reason some hospitals have allowed this research....
    --
    But perhaps there's a lesson here.

    Look at your second link; as a red flag, anytime you see the word "quantum," followed by something equivalent to "woo", in this case "consciousness," unless it's by a credible physicist, a red flag should go up in your head, a metaphorical bright red spinning BS light, that shouts---ITS PSEUDOSCIENCE.

    Here's the quote:

    "Negative results of the AWARE study doesn't mean that NDEs aren't real, but it simply could mean that while experiencing quantum consciousness, you might not be reading and remembering a sign on a reader-board near the ceiling of the room."

    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; January 5th, 2013 at 01:53 PM.
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by question for you View Post
    Here is a link to a short video explaining his reasons for carrying out the AWARE stdy:

    Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it :Pseudoscience - Page 35 • Rational Skepticism Forum

    Unfortunately this website has also decided to put 'speudoscience' in the link's title... how they justifiy the claim that this is false science, I have no clue. It's blatent preconcieved bias against the concept... which as we all know, is about as pseudoscientific as it gets.
    There's no data, or credible empirical evidence that it has anything to do with an outer body anything, that's why.

    And in that thread they mention that Sam Parnia is going to publish a book, before apparently there's been any peer review scientific articles about the project.

    We can let this stand for a day or so, and hope perhaps someone adds some hard empirical observational research about parts of the brain that might be active during near death experiences or what not--probably the main reason some hospitals have allowed this research....
    --
    But perhaps there's a lesson here.

    Look at your second link; as a red flag, anytime you see the word "quantum," followed by something equivalent to "woo", in this case "consciousness," unless it's by a credible physicist, a red flag should go up in your head, a metaphorical bright red spinning BS light, that shouts---ITS PSEUDOSCIENCE.

    Here's the quote:

    "Negative results of the AWARE study doesn't mean that NDEs aren't real, but it simply could mean that while experiencing quantum consciousness, you might not be reading and remembering a sign on a reader-board near the ceiling of the room."

    The reason for the second post and the video of Sam Parnia is so that people can see his face and hear him speak... no need for it to be scientific.

    The Scientific part is his study called AWARE... Just thought i'd share the video so people can see this sam parnia for themselves. Also in the video is a helicopter pilot who discusses his experience, which is just one example of many which have motivated Sam Parnia to do the AWARE study in the first place.

    I'll be honest I didnt pay attention to the website of the comments of any users on the website, or of the aurthors of the website. I didn't consider the video to be of any scientific merit either.

    I really don't see the problem with that being posted... would you rather I delete it?


    And yes, though I cant garentee i'll be here much in the next day or two it is my intention to entice members of the forum to submit any info they have on activity in the brain during these 'NDE' etc etc.

    I do hope that the threads status as non pseudoscience doesn't depend on the quality of data provided by other users though, as I have no control other that.

    I did read some stuff about people who were linked up to brain monitors that indicated no activity, which is probably why hospitals are allowing this study, hopefully I can find that and bring it soon but be patient please.

    And if you request that I remove the video... then please give me a chance to get back online and do it, before you take action.

    Cheers

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    P.S... is consciousness woo?

    A physicist might talk about 'quantum' physics... but would he ever talk about consciousness? no, because he is a physicist not a phycologist (or whatever branch of science consciouness falls under).
    A psychologist might talk about consciousness... but would they ever talk about quantum physics? no, because they are not physicists.

    This is one of the problems with the catorgarisation of science within education, in my opinion.

    Sam Parnia is a respectable proffesional medical scientist isn't he?
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    Can you clarify which aspects of NDEs belong to this particular subforum? I would have thought a query into what happens to the brain during cardiac arrest belongs to the biology subforum instead.
    Well no.... But I can explain to you that I put it here because I am under the impression that these reported phenomena are usually considered as a psychological and subjective experience. Rather than actually being the soul or mind or consciousness existing outside of the body as a physical substance.

    I'm not quite sure of the exact definition of biology at this second, and it never occured to me that biology would be the best forum.

    I personally feel it is a multidiciplinary study, and phenomena. But it certainly needs to be looked at from a psychological angle, a physical angle... which yes I agree with you, it needs to be looked at from the angle of inner brain action also.

    The thing is scooby... as I have said just now in another post.. in these reported NDE (near death is not an acurate description, as far as medical science is concerned they were dead. ) there was no heart beat, no brain activity detected. Yes it is possible that brain activity exists which we cannot yet detect, which is why is does also need to be looked at from the biological angle you have mentioned.

    Don't blame me, I never divided the scientific fields up the way they are divided. If it were down to me, all scientists would be trained in multiple disciplines, or diciplines which transcend multiple current branches.

    One thing that has been learnt is that death might not be such an instant event that occurs at the point when the heart stops, or even at the point when brain activity can no longer be detected. Which is quite interesting.

    Perhaps you know more about the AWARE study than me, I was under the strong impression it is studying the possibility of consciousness outside of the brain, when not just the heat, but the brain is dead to medical science.

    The truth is that multiple diciplines need to aproach the phenomena to get to the truth... lets not be pedantic about which forum it is in, as long as it isnt in pseudoscience or trash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    Duplicate thread. You've already started a thread on this.
    If anybody is tempted to take Alex seriously, then let me know... I will go and delete Sam parnia's AWARE study from my other thread on Life after death, which has been put in pseudoscience.

    (Incase you missed the point Alex... read the whole thread again)
    Last edited by question for you; January 5th, 2013 at 03:12 PM.
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  11. #10  
    Anti-Crank AlexG's Avatar
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    I did read it. You're simply attempting to have your pseudoscientific nonsense taken as real science, and this is just an end run around the correct call by the moderator.
    Its the way nature is!
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    I did read it. You're simply attempting to have your pseudoscientific nonsense taken as real science, and this is just an end run around the correct call by the moderator.
    It's not my pseudoscience. It's called the AWARE study. An official study and attempt to find answers to many of these questions facing science.

    If you can justify that it is pseudoscience then do so, I am open to learning more about it.

    Until you can justify what you say, you're just spouting your preconcieved opinions and bias towards the study and that is of no interest to me or science.
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    See you all soon.

    I will try my best to bring some rellevant and robust, credible scientific data by the time I return, though I can offer no assurances. Hopefully others will be able to do the same in the meantime.

    Happy researching!
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  14. #13  
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    An official study...
    Official? Don't make me laugh. The study is being funded by the UK Resuscitation Council, the Horizon Research Foundation, and the Nour Foundation in the United States.

    This 'study' first decides what they want to find and then tries to find it. This is pseudoscientific woo.

    Show me a double blind study conducted by a reputable, recognized academic institution. That's "Scientific". (I love when someone captializes scientific. You remind me of the character in the movie The Neverending Story who use to cackle, "That's Scientifical". )
    seagypsy likes this.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
    Prof Richard Feynman (1979) .....

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by question for you View Post
    P.S... is consciousness woo?
    "Quantum consciousness" is woo.

    Sam Parnia is a respectable proffesional medical scientist isn't he?

    He's had two peer review scientific articles---both about Cerebral oximetry, which are as far as I can tell, are legitimate areas of research to saves lives and minimize brain damage in emergency rooms he works in. It doesn't have much of anything do with this is supposition that common perceptions once people recover from near death experiences might indicate out of body or life after death.

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    Not totally sure about the objections going on here, ok I'm a bit dubious as to what the results will be and if they will really find anything but this being said I'm willing to keep an open mind and not prejudge. As for the term "Quantum consciousness", they have referenced as a term for a theory that at least some type of process is taking place on a quantum level which has a bearing on consciousness, they further reference this theory to "Stuart Hameroff, an anesthetist at the University of Arizona, and Roger Penrose, a mathematician from the University of Cambridge". They haven't stated it as fact but just a term for a theory to which they are looking for supporting evidence to corroborate.

    I think if they were just bandying a term as fact and without explanation or evidence then it would be more than fair to describe it as woo, I don't think this is particularly the case here but that's just imho.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Not totally sure about the objections going on here, ok I'm a bit dubious as to what the results will be and if they will really find anything but this being said I'm willing to keep an open mind and not prejudge.
    Me too.

    As for the term "Quantum consciousness", they have referenced as a term for a theory that at least some type of process is taking place on a quantum level which has a bearing on consciousness, they further reference this theory to "Stuart Hameroff, an anesthetist at the University of Arizona, and Roger Penrose, a mathematician from the University of Cambridge". They haven't stated it as fact but just a term for a theory to which they are looking for supporting evidence to corroborate.
    It's barely a hypothesis, certainly not a theory. Penrose, has been flogging this idea for 3 decades and its still no closer to an ounce of empirical backing than it was when it started. It's main problem is scale...even microtubes are too large to be effected.
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; January 6th, 2013 at 01:04 AM.
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    Oh, ok. You put my thread into pseudoscience.

    Can you please explain why this subject is pseudo scientific?

    Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Not totally sure about the objections going on here, ok I'm a bit dubious as to what the results will be and if they will really find anything but this being said I'm willing to keep an open mind and not prejudge.
    Me too.
    Then who was it who refused to keep an open mind?
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  20. #19  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by question for you View Post
    Oh, ok. You put my thread into pseudoscience.

    Can you please explain why this subject is pseudo scientific?

    Thanks.
    Maybe if you used scientific sources? Rather than the trash you have done. If the Daily Mail is one of your sources things are pretty desperate. If it appears to be the best of your sources you are really in trouble.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by question for you View Post
    Oh, ok. You put my thread into pseudoscience.

    Can you please explain why this subject is pseudo scientific?

    Thanks.
    Maybe if you used scientific sources? Rather than the trash you have done. If the Daily Mail is one of your sources things are pretty desperate. If it appears to be the best of your sources you are really in trouble.
    I used the horizon research institutes website, they are conducting the experiment, I believe... I just added the daily mails webpage for some real gravitas! especially with the far right conservatives.

    The point is, as you obviously havent read the link and understood whats going on... This thread was allowed to stay in the science forum by a moderator, lynx, then all of a sudden it was silently put into speudoscience.

    Great to see you back on here strange but dont start answering the mods or admins questions... or any questions that you do not understand, cheers.

    Hope you had a good christmas and new year period.
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    Quote Originally Posted by question for you View Post
    I used the horizon research institutes website, they are conducting the experiment
    That is a potentially interesting study. It is just a shame they have no results yet. That also means there is no way of evaluating the quality of their methods, either.

    If you had just linked to that study and not brought up "quantum consciousness", spirituality, etc. maybe it could have remained a scientific discussion. Although, given the lack of results and people's desire to believe in fairy tales, perhaps not...
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by question for you View Post
    I used the horizon research institutes website, they are conducting the experiment
    That is a potentially interesting study. It is just a shame they have no results yet. That also means there is no way of evaluating the quality of their methods, either.

    If you had just linked to that study and not brought up "quantum consciousness", spirituality, etc. maybe it could have remained a scientific discussion. Although, given the lack of results and people's desire to believe in fairy tales, perhaps not...
    My original hope was that somebody would know of some results... but the thread will most likely still be here when results are released.

    I just hope 10% of subjects accurately described what image they saw... the thread would still be in speudoscience though!
    It is indeed a potentially interesting study, the video was of Sam Parnia himself, and has been edited to include quantum consciousness, so I am told. I didn't notice that or mean to antagnise, just thought it would be good to see sam parnia, man conducting the potentially interesting study.

    I could have deleted that link on request. I still am none the wiser who put this thread on this potentially interesting study into pseudoscience, or why. All I have is speculation from a band of TSF users.

    Nevermind as they say.
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