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Thread: Flying round (UFO)

  1. #1 Flying round (UFO) 
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    Want to say: I have nothing against the law.
    But I am interested in things that Nazis wanted to do, but they didn't. It's like UFO, but not Alien's. How those plans can be realised. Was that antigravity flying object ? Why our world still doesn't have those projects? If we had those plans in our hands: could we do our world diffrent?
    It is interesting: why those scientists didn't survive... If htat could be possible - our world would be diffrent for sure!

    As humanity is up to invent a new car or machine - nazis could do it sooner.

    Thank you for reading,


    Lolibai




    Last edited by Lolibai; January 14th, 2013 at 03:52 PM.
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    Thread about quantum trapping, (a magnetic field effect ) It's a idea of how a flying round UFO could fly!!
    http://www.thescienceforum.com/general-discussion/31055-quantum-trapping.html


    With bravery and recognition that we are harbingers of our destiny and with a paragon of virtue.
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    Thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolibai View Post
    But I am interested in things that Nazis wanted to do
    Which would be what, exactly?

    As humanity is up to invent a new car or machine - nazis could do it sooner.
    No. There were NO "Nazi flying saucers". Not one.

    You've been reading too many crank books/ websites.
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    Dywyddyr, Long time, no see.

    Glad to see ya.

    Be careful what you say, though. Damned nazi's have spies everywhere.
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    Nazis were exploring things all over the world. And that why I am interested in UFO. I assume that nazis discovered the flying round(UFO).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolibai View Post
    Nazis were exploring things all over the world.
    So were other people.

    And that why I am interested in UFO.
    Huh? How does the fact that people were exploring things all over the world lead to an interest in UFOs?

    I assume that nazis discovered the flying round(UFO).
    They didn't. What is your assumption based on?
    Try this: Flying Saucer Aircraft (Secret Projects): Amazon.co.uk: Bill Rose & Tony Buttler: Books
    Circular planform aircraft date back to at least 1913.
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  9. #8  
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    Provide evidence to support your assertions.
    "Raiders of the Lost Ark"
    and
    "Kingdom of the Crystal Skull"
    do not count as evidence. They are fiction.
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  10. #9  
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    True.
    But Han Solo is real.
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  11. #10  
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    UFO is an unusual flying object, so it needs a special fuel. Nazis explore the world. This is the reason why I assume their creation of UFO.
    Also, we all know that UFO is UFO, because we named it like that. That why I assume their creation more.
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolibai View Post
    UFO is an unusual flying object, so it needs a special fuel.
    UFO is UNIDENTIFIED Flying object.
    Special fuel? Really? There is, to date, no actual evidence that UFOs (as some sort of highly exotic craft) exist. How do you know what fuel they use?

    Nazis explore the world. This is the reason why I assume their creation of UFO.
    Like I said: so did other people. Why ascribe UFOs to the Nazis?
    For example the British very probably explored more of the world (after all we had the largest empire in history); why not ascribe UFOs to them?

    Also, we all know that UFO is UFO, because we named it like that. That why I assume their creation more.
    Non-sequitur.
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    Seen it: it's crap.
    Unsubstantiated rubbish with not a single shred of actual evidence.
    Don't fall for the woo!
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    Ah, OK. UFO is and Alien.
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    If you mean "UFO is an alien" then, again: no.
    We have not one shred of evidence that these "flying saucers" exist.
    Therfeore, if they don't exist, how can you ascribe an origin to them?
    Last edited by Dywyddyr; January 14th, 2013 at 04:39 PM.
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  17. #16  
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    Nazis!
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  18. #17  
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    Nope.
    The "Nazi UFO" myth was started long after the war by a pro-Nazi apologist in order to promote sales of his Holocaust-denialist books.
    There is no contemporary evidence that the Nazis worked on "UFOs" or spent any time looking at "special fuels".
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    This little exchange was fun to read. Right up to where the opposition ejaculated the word, "Nazi's."
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    Post one, you mean?
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    Nah, all of them.
    Dywyddyr likes this.
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    Its not impossible, Nazis try all sort of ideas, from stealth fighter to death ray, they tried it all. However, only few succeed. Several that are know were: V2 rocket (which later progress to Saturn V rocket), V1 cruise missile, V3 long range cannon, Jet airplane, and Stealth fighter (saw it in NatGeo documentary).

    Nazis believe in pseudoscience, that's why they try all sort of ideas, but not all those idea are viable. People claim great things, but when they build it, it doesn't work. However, Nazis openness to pseudoscience actually brought them to all those pioneering technology that actually work.

    Another people who attempt to build a UFO is US airforce in 60s IMO. They built an airplane that shape like a saucer called Avrocar, but eventually superceeded by a helicopter. In US' version the UFO do not use exotic propulsion, instead it use turbine and airflow to lift a saucer body for VTOL and supersonic flight (which failed at supersonic).

    P/S: google all those name and you'll get credible source. It is real.
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by msafwan View Post
    Nazis try all sort of ideas, from stealth fighter
    No they didn't.

    to death ray
    Death ray? Which particular one are you talking about? Who HASN'T tried a deathray?

    Several that are know were: V2 rocket
    Should the Nazis (only) get credit? What about Goddard? Tsiolkovsky?

    V1 cruise missile
    Little more than an updated Kettering Bug - go on, Google it.

    V3 long range cannon
    How was that a success?

    Jet airplane
    Again, how was that a success? They were AFTER the British in coming up with the jet engine. They cancelled the first jet fighter as being "unnecessary) and when they did manage to get one into service it had such a short engine life that pilots had to spend more time managing the engines than actually flying it.

    and Stealth fighter (saw it in NatGeo documentary)
    Which should give you some idea of the reliability of TV programmes as worthwhile sources. Any "stealth" features were purely accidental, and if you can call the Ho 229 "stealthy" then so was the Mosquito (and any other wooden-structured aircraft).

    Nazis believe in pseudoscience, that's why they try all sort of ideas, but not all those idea a viable.
    The reason they weren't viable is BECAUSE they were based on pseudoscience.
    But that doesn't alter the fact that the Nazis didn't have "flying saucers".

    Another people who attempt to build a UFO is US airforce in 60s IMO. They built an airplane that shape like a saucer called Avrocar, but eventually superceeded by a helicopter.
    You know why it was called the Avrocar? Because it was built by AVRO Canada - for the US Army - not the USAF, and it was also a proof-of-concept vehicle for Project Y which eventually became Weapon System 606.
    The Avrocar didn't "fail at supersonic" (it wasn't intended to be supersonic): it failed because it was unstable at any altitude above about four feet.
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    What matter is this: those technology arise during their ruling. There's no political meaning whatsoever about this statement, its just happen to be so. It just happen to be that those scientist are from their era.

    The mindset of Nazis party is this: German people are superior race and are capable of anything. With this kind of mindset its easy to see why they put their resource on such experimental concept and succeed. Because of their confidence IMO.
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by msafwan View Post
    What matter is this: those technology arise during their ruling.
    Really? Which ones?
    Stealth? No.
    Jet engines? No.
    Death ray? No.
    V-3 cannon? No.
    V-1 cruise missile? No.
    V-2? No.
    "Flying saucers"? No.
    ALL of those were based on earlier ideas. And, as has been pointed out, they didn't get most of them actually working.

    With this kind of mindset its easy to see why they put their resource on such experimental concept and succeed.
    But they didn't succeed with many of them. Or are you arguing that the Allies couldn't have done (any) of those things if they'd decided that that was the way to go?
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    You can't deny that they did fund them to make them work. All those things (except death ray) does work, its really simple stuff. Allies did not make those things because they do not think like the German did (different mindset).

    British for example has their its own version of jet engine but did not pursue their development until they have to race with the German. (British engine for example did not suffer from heat problem of German engine, but is fat looking).

    Allied intelligence do know German is building liquid fueled rocket (V2) but dismiss them as technically unfeasible at the moment (because they didn't even tried building it).
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  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by msafwan View Post
    You can't deny that they did fund them to make them work.
    Let's try again.
    Did they get V-3 working? Not really.
    Did they get stealth? No.
    Did they get viable jet engines? Not quite.
    Did they get the first cruise missiles? No.
    Did they get flying saucers? No.
    So that leaves the V-2.

    Allies did not make those things because they do not think like the German did.
    Or maybe because they weren't as outright desperate as the Germans.

    British for example has their its own version of jet engine but did not pursue their development it until they have to race with the German.
    And the Germans didn't pursue jet engines until they were losing so badly they needed a "wonder weapon". What's your point?

    Allied intelligence do know German is building liquid fueled rocket but dismiss them as technically unfeasable at the moment
    Utterly false. Try reading R. V. Jones Most Secret War for how seriously the threat of V-2 was taken (initially). And how quickly it was effectively dismissed as being essentially worthless as a weapon.

    The German pursuit of most of these "weapons" was due the fact that they had planned the war so badly and ineptly (not even switching the economy and production onto a war footing until 1943!) that they needed "super weapons" to catch up with the Allies. They were, almost exclusively, weapons of desperation.
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  28. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Let's try again.
    Did they get V-3 working? Not really.
    Did they get stealth? No.
    Did they get viable jet engines? Not quite.
    Did they get the first cruise missiles? No.
    Did they get flying saucers? No.
    So that leaves the V-2.
    The long range cannon (V3) can work in concept, they just didn't have chance to try it out first.
    Stealth fighter yes, because their paint absorb some radar wave.
    Jet engine yes, the same design is used in current jet engine because we have the alloy for the heat.
    Cruise missile (V1) yes, they fire it toward Britain.
    Flying saucer is no, they might be one of many failed pseudoscience they tested like death ray and such.
    Liquid fueled rocket (V2) yes, they also fire it toward Britain.

    These technology are well known today and definitely work (except flying saucer & death ray of course). The acknowledgement is just for the fact that they made it, nothing more.

    Next you'll be hearing someone say chinese invented money, or muslim invent math, or the greek invented computer. They are correct also.
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by msafwan View Post
    The long range cannon (V3) can work in concept, they just didn't have chance to try it out first.
    So what? They didn't invent it - the first one was tried around 1857.

    Stealth fighter yes, because their paint absorb some radar wave.
    In which case ALL painted aircraft are stealth.

    Jet engine yes, the same design is used in current jet engine because we have the alloy for the heat.
    Er no. Again. The British built the first working jet engine. And before you go on about the British one being "fatter" they also developed the axial flow version during WWII,. The only reason we used radial flow is that they were simpler and therefore easier to put into service.

    Cruise missile (V1) yes, they fire it toward Britain.
    Again, no. The V-1 was nothing more than a development of the Kettering Bug - which dates back to WWI.

    Flying saucer is no, they might be one of many failed pseudoscience they tested like death ray and such.
    One more time: which particular "death ray" are you talking about? Most countries tried to invent one at one time or another: the Germans didn't have the monopoly on "death rays", nor did they come up with idea first.

    Liquid fueled rocket (V2) yes, they also fire it toward Britain.
    Goddard? Tsiolkovsky? Yes they used them. Yes they them launched at Britain. They were, largely, an utter waste of resources and ridiculous as a weapon.

    These technology are well known today and definitely work today (except flying saucer & death ray of course). The acknowledgement is just for the fact that they made it, nothing more.
    But in the majority of those cases the Germans were neither first nor the sole "inventors".

    Next you'll be hearing someone say chinese invented money, or muslim invent math, or the greek invented computer. They are correct also.
    Keep trying.
    Coinage was invented by the Lydians, around 700 BC, (but metals as "money" was apparently in use ~5,000 BC). The Chinese invented paper money.
    If the Babylonians had mathematical texts in 1900 BC and Muslims didn't (couldn't) arrive until Islam was developed (around 600 AD) how is this possible?
    It depends on your definition of "computer" doesn't it? It's usually taken to mean a "general purpose device that can be programmed to carry out a finite set of arithmetic or logical operations" - in which case they didn't.
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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by msafwan View Post
    The mindset of Nazis party is this: German people are superior race and are capable of anything. With this kind of mindset its easy to see why they put their resource on such experimental concept and succeed. Because of their confidence IMO.
    Yeah, like their spectacular success with nuclear power/bombs.

    Oops.

    Any economy can only support a finite number of projects. That's why it's essential to pursue only those that have a credible chance of working. You know -- the ones based on science. You don't get credit for working on obvious bullshit. Confidence by itself is not an obvious advantage. The world has a vast surplus of the confidently ignorant. The OP is a prime example.
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  31. #30  
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    Dywyddyr, the reality is this: they made those thing. There's no point in spinning around with word saying "oh no, they do not, other people thought about it first...". The reality is that they made those things.

    ------

    Keep trying.
    Coinage was invented by the Lydians, around 700 BC, (but metals as "money" was apparently in use ~5,000 BC). The Chinese invented paper money.
    If the Babylonians had mathematical texts in 1900 BC and Muslims didn't (couldn't) arrive until Islam was developed (around 600 AD) how is this possible?
    It depends on your definition of "computer" doesn't it? It's usually taken to mean a "general purpose device that can be programmed to carry out a finite set of arithmetic or logical operations" - in which case they didn't.
    Its a computer because the Greek are able to use the machine to calculate future based on their celestial model. They 'hardcode' their celestial model into the machine and it calculate the result correctly. In present day computer you do the same thing (you hardcode your logics, then you compile and run), except it is easier.

    Its just that algebra was credited to the muslim era.

    Yea, paper money was introduced by chinese.
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  32. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by msafwan View Post
    Dywyddyr, the reality is this: they made those thing. There's no point in spinning around with word saying "oh no, they do not, other people thought about it first...". The reality is that they made those things.
    But they didn't make them first, so why do they get the credit?
    What makes the Nazis so special?
    They copied other people's ideas? Wow!

    Its a computer because the Greek are able to use the machine to calculate future based on their celestial model.
    It's very limited form of "computer". It only performs one function: hardly "a "general purpose device that can be programmed to carry out a finite set of arithmetic or logical operations"".

    In present day computer you do the same thing (you hardcode your logics, then you compile and run), except it is easier.
    Huh?

    Its just that algebra was credited to the muslim era.
    Really?
    "The history of algebra began in ancient Egypt and Babylon,"
    History of Algebra

    Yea, paper money was introduced by chinese.
    In other words you were wrong. Again.
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  33. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    In present day computer you do the same thing (you hardcode your logics, then you compile and run), except it is easier.
    Huh?
    A software can only do a specific set of hardcoded logic. You can't tell it do anything else until you re-compile the logics. In ancient Greek this is analogous to reassembling the gears.

    A set of gear can do a specific mathematical function, but when you reassemble it (or if you have mechanism to move the gear around), you will reprogram it to do new function. Adding input in one part of gear will output a result in the other part (like calculator).

    But they didn't make them first, so why do they get the credit?
    What makes the Nazis so special?
    They copied other people's ideas? Wow!
    They are the first because no one build those stuff before (like V2, V1 or remote controlled rocket). But this doesn't mean Nazis are special (other people made stuff too, such as math and computers). Its just that you don't like them too much to acknowledge that those thing even exist.


    P/S: Its just that, you didn't see the reality in other people's word because you rely on hatred for your reply. I know this very well.
    Last edited by msafwan; January 16th, 2013 at 09:02 AM.
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  34. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by msafwan View Post
    They are the first because no one build those stuff before (like V2, V1 or remote controlled rocket)
    Wrong again.
    I have already pointed out that, for example, the V-3 was preceded by a weapon built in 1857, that V-1 was preceded by the Kettering Bug. Yet you continue to ignore this information.

    P/S: Its just that, you didn't see any truth in other people's word because you rely on hatred for your reply. I know this very well.
    And you don't actually read anything, you apparently prefer to make up emotions for me (incorrect ones) and continue to spout your nonsense.

    A set of gear can do a specific mathematical function, but when you reassemble it (or if you have mechanism to move the gear around), you will reprogram it to do new function.
    What evidence do you have that the Antikythera "computer" could be taken apart and "reprogrammed"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by msafwan View Post
    They are the first because no one build those stuff before (like V2, V1 or remote controlled rocket)
    Wrong again.
    I have already pointed out that, for example, the V-3 was preceded by a weapon built in 1857, that V-1 was preceded by the Kettering Bug. Yet you continue to ignore this information.
    Let's see if links and quotes can be ignored:
    V-3 cannon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The origin of the multi-chamber gun dates back from the 19th century. In 1857 U.S. arms expert Azel Storrs Lyman (1815–1885) was granted a patent on "Improvement in accelerating fire-arms" [6] and built in 1860 a prototype which proved to be unsuccessful.[7][8] The idea was perfected in collaboration with James Richard Haskell who had been working for years on the same principle[9][10] Haskell and Lyman reasoned that subsidiary propellant charges, spaced at intervals up the barrel of a gun in side chambers and ignited an instant after a shell had passed them, could increase the muzzle velocity of a projectile.
    Predecessor to the V-1:
    Kettering Bug - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    During World War I, the United States Army aircraft board asked Charles Kettering of Dayton, Ohio to design an unmanned "flying bomb" which could hit a target at a range of 40 miles. Kettering's design, formally called the Kettering Aerial Torpedo but later known as the Kettering Bug, was built by the Dayton-Wright Airplane Company. Orville Wright acted as an aeronautical consultant on the project, while Elmer Ambrose Sperry designed the control and guidance system. A piloted development aircraft was built as the Dayton-Wright Bug.
    V-1 flying bomb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    I also forgot to mention the Larynx:
    Larynx (from "Long Range Gun with Lynx engine") was an early British pilotless aircraft, to be used as a guided anti-ship weapon. Started in September 1925, it was an early cruise missile guided by an autopilot.
    A small monoplane powered by a 200 hp Armstrong Siddeley Lynx IV engine, it had a top speed of 200 mph (320 km/h); faster than contemporary fighters.[2]
    It used autopilot principles developed by Professor Archibald Low and already used in the Ruston Proctor AT, a radio controlled biplane that was intended to be used against German Zeppelin bombers.
    And my bad: 1857 was the year of patent grant for the gun, 1860 was the year it was built.
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    What evidence do you have that the Antikythera "computer" could be taken apart and "reprogrammed"?
    What the hell... The point is, if you could build antikythera device (a calculator), then you can also build other devices. If you have mastered the use of gears as computational tools, then you can calculate any other stuff.

    Imagine this: they spend all their knowledge just to build 1 device (Antikythera device)?? this is ridiculous. Antikythera is probably just a commercial item that they sold to people, and they are many of them. They can build other devices with they own bare hand because they know enough already.

    Wrong again.
    I have already pointed out that, for example, the V-3 was preceded by a weapon built in 1857, that V-1 was preceded by the Kettering Bug. Yet you continue to ignore this information.
    It doesn't make sense... Kettering Bug do not use pulse jet engine and electronic guidance system. There's alot of technical differences than the original concept.

    They need to solve the technical challenge surrounding V3 concept. If the German copied the idea wholly from 1857, then the cannon would obviously be about replicating a fail (the original doesn't work). This involve inventing new solution.
    Last edited by msafwan; January 16th, 2013 at 09:59 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by msafwan View Post
    It doesn't make sense... Kettering Bug do not use pulse jet engine and electronic guidance system.

    They need to solve the technical challenge surrounding V3 concept. If the German copied the idea wholly from 1857, then the cannon would obviously a fail (the original doesn't work). This involve inventing new solution.
    By golly, you're right! And clearly the Saturn V stands alone and was preceded by nothing since nothing before it had the same components!
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    Quote Originally Posted by msafwan View Post
    What the hell... The point is, if you could build antikythera device (a calculator), then you can also build other devices. If you have mastered the use of gears as computational tools, then you can calculate any other stuff.
    Yet you claimed that the Antikythera device was a computer. And we have NO EVIDENCE whatsoever that they built anything else.

    Imagine this: they spend all their knowledge just to build 1 device (Antikythera device)?? this is ridiculous. Antikythera is probably just a commercial item that they sold to people, and they are many of them.
    Wild speculation doesn't cut it.

    It doesn't make sense... Kettering Bug do not use pulse jet engine and electronic guidance system.
    So what? The V-1 didn't use an electronic guidance system either. Are you now claiming that simply using a different engine changes the entire function/ purpose of the vehicle? Gradual refinements to a design or concept do NOT constitute invention (or even first construction) of that design or concept.

    They need to solve the technical challenge surrounding V3 concept. If the German copied the idea wholly from 1857, then the cannon would obviously be about replicating a fail (the original doesn't work). This involve inventing new solution.
    Really? A "new solution". So I might give them credit for managing to fix something that someone else invented. But, here's the funny part. The V-3 happened to be based on designs that they captured from the French in 1940. Designs that dated back to 1918. So you fail again.
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  40. #39  
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    Try building something based on other people's idea. You'll see that you need to put soo much of your own knowledge into the construction such that this device become your own right your own intellectual property now. Idea is too simple, they do not explain how to realize it.

    The idea "to use airplane as suicide bomb" is to common to be considered an intellectual property.

    Saturn V may have same component as Soviet Union rocket but the technical knowledge of building them is specific to the American. Soviet Union design is different than American but internal component are all similar to V2.
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  41. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by msafwan View Post
    Try building something based on other people's idea. You'll see that you need to put soo much of your own knowledge into the construction such that this device become your own right your own intellectual property now.
    False. It depends upon how far it departs from the original idea. That's why there are patent laws.

    The idea "to use airplane as suicide bomb" is to common to be considered an intellectual property.
    Huh?

    Saturn V may have same component as Soviet Union rocket
    No it doesn't.

    but the technical knowledge of building them is specific to the American.
    No it isn't. In fact the technical knowledge would be almost identical.

    Soviet Union design is different than American but internal component are all similar to V2.
    False again. V-2 used purely mechanical systems for "guidance" (such as it was) and no computers. Saturn V had electrical/ electronic systems.
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    I agree 100%.
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