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Thread: Space Ends

  1. #1 Space Ends 
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    Space does not go on forever and ever, Space Ends.

    That way space has a shape.


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  3. #2  
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    Space is forever expanding, so it is infinite and does not end. Therefore you are wrong.


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  4. #3 no No NO 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Communist Hamster
    Space is forever expanding, so it is infinite and does not end. Therefore you are wrong.
    Space does not expand, space ends that way space has a shape and the shape of space moves from one shape to another shape.
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  5. #4  
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    Space does not expand
    Ahhh.
    I get you.
    Pseudoscience.

    (How do you explain redshift then? And how big is space? Must be big enough where all the light from all the stars hasn't reached everywhere yet. If space has an end does it have a beginning? Are you speaking in terms of space or time or both? What shape does it have? Torus? Cowboy hat? Saddle? The letter Q? If space has an end, what's on the other end of space to delineate this shape?)
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  6. #5 Space Ends 
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    Quote Originally Posted by invert_nexus
    Space does not expand
    Ahhh.
    I get you.
    Pseudoscience.

    (How do you explain redshift then? And how big is space? Must be big enough where all the light from all the stars hasn't reached everywhere yet. If space has an end does it have a beginning? Are you speaking in terms of space or time or both? What shape does it have? Torus? Cowboy hat? Saddle? The letter Q? If space has an end, what's on the other end of space to delineate this shape?)
    the size of space is not as important as is that you come to the understanding that space ends that way space has a shape and that shape of space moves from one shape to another shape.
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  7. #6 any direction 
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    Quote Originally Posted by invert_nexus
    Space does not expand
    Ahhh.
    I get you.
    Pseudoscience.

    (How do you explain redshift then? And how big is space? Must be big enough where all the light from all the stars hasn't reached everywhere yet. If space has an end does it have a beginning? Are you speaking in terms of space or time or both? What shape does it have? Torus? Cowboy hat? Saddle? The letter Q? If space has an end, what's on the other end of space to delineate this shape?)
    any direction you go you would find that space ends
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  8. #7  
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    Evidence? Reputable scientist? Ancient texts? What do you have to back up these claims?
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    We have no way of knowing how big the universe is. All we have are estimates. I don't think there is an end to the universe. If space is getting larger and larger, then there is no end to it. Its shape is constantly expanding and changing.
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    I'm guessing space doesn't end, it is forever expanding. It's kinda hard to understand that something doesn't have an end( or a begining for that metter) well there's something we already know that doesn't have beginning or an end. Numbers. Or a rainbow( but thats just an optical iilution so it's not a good example.
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  11. #10  
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    If something is expanding, does that not imply that it is not endless, at least in conventional terms?

    Time goes by, expansion of the endless universe occurs and it becomes relatively "more endless"? "Endlesser"?

    Hmmm.
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  12. #11  
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    Space, an interesting topic.

    I consider space like the inside of a cup (In virtual reality). The inside of a cup in day to day life always holds something, it has air and some particles inside of it at all times. Even if we vacuum out the cup in a chamber it still will have some residual molecule hanging around.

    Now think of a cup in virtual reality, what's inside the cup? Well unless it's programmed in, nothing at all. Does the inside of the cup still exist in this virtual reality, why sure it does. Can it be defined, labeled, measured, yes. Can it expand to infinity, yes.

    So you see, space is like a container that exists, but doesn't really exist. Objects can exist within it, yet we can't scoop up space and place it in a jar. It's a void place holder for matter and energy. One could think of it as a computer memory chip that has yet to contain data. The difference is that it goes into a tri state mode when not in use, it vanishes from value. It contains nothing at all, yet it is ready and willing to accept new objects.

    So does space end, no. Space is not physical, it is a construction medium for other objects. Unlimited in scope. It is void of value, yet still exists.
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by invert_nexus
    Space does not expand
    Ahhh.
    I get you.
    Pseudoscience.
    Oh but it's worse than just pseudoscience invert_nexus, oh so much worse. Zazzzoom has posted his views on the universe in multiple threads, and then refers to the following website: http://www.cybcity.com/theuniverse. He's confused to say the least.
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    Quote Originally Posted by (In)Sanity
    Now think of a cup in virtual reality, what's inside the cup? Well unless it's programmed in, nothing at all. Does the inside of the cup still exist in this virtual reality, why sure it does. Can it be defined, labeled, measured, yes. Can it expand to infinity, yes.
    This was an interesting thought-exercise. Thanks. Not sure it helps much in the final analysis, though.

    Seems to me that if the cup "exists" in VR, it must occupy space beyond that which it contains. So the total space there, occupied and unoccupied, must at least meet the dimensions of the cup, not the inside. And since the cup could likely be assigned any positive dimensional values, the worskpace into which to virtualize such a cup must already be there, or be ready to be there, which I'm going to treat as being equivalent. Thus, the space of this virtual reality would be unlimited, or limited only in the processing power of the VR program, regardless of whether it is occupied or not. The limit, if any, isn't established by what the space contains, but by other factors. The workspace would still exist, bounded or limitless, even if it were entirely unused.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco-neck Ted
    Quote Originally Posted by (In)Sanity
    Now think of a cup in virtual reality, what's inside the cup? Well unless it's programmed in, nothing at all. Does the inside of the cup still exist in this virtual reality, why sure it does. Can it be defined, labeled, measured, yes. Can it expand to infinity, yes.
    This was an interesting thought-exercise. Thanks. Not sure it helps much in the final analysis, though.

    Seems to me that if the cup "exists" in VR, it must occupy space beyond that which it contains. So the total space there, occupied and unoccupied, must at least meet the dimensions of the cup, not the inside. And since the cup could likely be assigned any positive dimensional values, the worskpace into which to virtualize such a cup must already be there, or be ready to be there, which I'm going to treat as being equivalent. Thus, the space of this virtual reality would be unlimited, or limited only in the processing power of the VR program, regardless of whether it is occupied or not. The limit, if any, isn't established by what the space contains, but by other factors. The workspace would still exist, bounded or limitless, even if it were entirely unused.
    Ok, wow. Your correct...I just never expected anyone to read that much
    into it. Perhaps my analogy was not the best.

    Think of it this way, space in VR doesn't really exist at all. We still can however define it, section it off, decide what to put where. Real space is kind of the same way. It doesn't exist, yet we can map it. I had another thread that questioned what holds it together. In the case of VR it's the memory of the machine.
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  16. #15  
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    OUR space can have it's limits, but then...there are other dimenions...(well maybe)( i think so at least) so there's more that ONE actual space, there's thousands more universes. More tea cups, side by side.
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  17. #16  
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    If there is an end to space, we haven't found it, can't detect it with present day instruments, and theory is yet to show it. For all intents and purposes just from what we know today of what is out there, it will probably take longer than the planet earth has remaining for us to explore all we know of now.

    Using gravitational lensing even supports there is far more out there than we can at present even see.

    It is concievable that at some point we may not even be able to get to other galaxies outside our local grouping in the far future should we make it to that far future as a race. With the rate of expansion seeming to indicate that it shows no sign of slowing down things are steadily getting farther apart. Speeds are also increasing slowly but steadly. It may well be in that far future that nothing within our range travels slower than nearlight speed. Should that happen, anything not with us will be ever harder to see much less reach.
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  18. #17 Evidence? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Communist Hamster
    Evidence? Reputable scientist? Ancient texts? What do you have to back up these claims?
    Evidence?
    without any evidence everyone believes space goes on forever that's like everyone believing the sun is revolving around the earth, and by everyone believing space goes on forever without any evidence is a very good indication you are wrong!
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  19. #18  
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    An example of gravational lensing, showing the part of there being far more than we can at present see...


    Galaxy Cluster Lenses Farthest Known Galaxy
    Credit: ESA, NASA, J.-P. Kneib (Caltech/Observatoire Midi-Pyrenees) & R. Ellis (Caltech)

    Gravity can bend light, allowing whole clusters of galaxies to act as huge telescopes. Almost all of the bright objects in this just-released Hubble Space Telescope image are galaxies in the cluster known as Abell 2218. The cluster is so massive and so compact that its gravity bends and focuses the light from galaxies that lie behind it. As a result, multiple images of these background galaxies are distorted into long faint arcs - a simple lensing effect analogous to viewing distant street lamps through a glass of wine. The cluster of galaxies Abell 2218 is itself about two billion light-years away in the northern constellation Draco. The power of this massive cluster telescope has recently allowed astronomers to detect a galaxy at a redshift of about 7, the most distant galaxy or quasar yet measured. Three images of this young, still-maturing galaxy are faintly visible in the white contours near the image top and the lower right. The recorded light, further analyzed with a Keck Telescope, left this galaxy when the universe was only about five percent of its current age.

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  20. #19 it seems to me 
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleft
    An example of gravational lensing, showing the part of there being far more than we can at present see...


    Galaxy Cluster Lenses Farthest Known Galaxy
    Credit: ESA, NASA, J.-P. Kneib (Caltech/Observatoire Midi-Pyrenees) & R. Ellis (Caltech)

    Gravity can bend light, allowing whole clusters of galaxies to act as huge telescopes. Almost all of the bright objects in this just-released Hubble Space Telescope image are galaxies in the cluster known as Abell 2218. The cluster is so massive and so compact that its gravity bends and focuses the light from galaxies that lie behind it. As a result, multiple images of these background galaxies are distorted into long faint arcs - a simple lensing effect analogous to viewing distant street lamps through a glass of wine. The cluster of galaxies Abell 2218 is itself about two billion light-years away in the northern constellation Draco. The power of this massive cluster telescope has recently allowed astronomers to detect a galaxy at a redshift of about 7, the most distant galaxy or quasar yet measured. Three images of this young, still-maturing galaxy are faintly visible in the white contours near the image top and the lower right. The recorded light, further analyzed with a Keck Telescope, left this galaxy when the universe was only about five percent of its current age.

    Source Here
    it seems to me that you are trying to defind space with matter and energy having to be there, space does not need matter and energy being there to exist space can go on and on and on without any matter or energy being there. space does not need matter and energy to exist
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  21. #20  
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    What I am showing is that beyond the limits that we are presently able to detect still exists more. That we can not, by limits of our observations, determine where it stops, if it stops.

    At some point there must be an "edge" if you will. The traveling front of the "big bang" if our understanding is correct. The background residual radition tends to support that a big bang occurred. Behind that front at some point matter and energy exists.

    What is ahead of that "front" who knows? We can not convieve if is space without matter or something else entirely. However redshift leads us to believe it is headed "somewhere" at a good velocity. Wherever that somewhere is and consists of, is the question, is it not?
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  22. #21 matter and energy 
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleft
    What I am showing is that beyond the limits that we are presently able to detect still exists more. That we can not, by limits of our observations, determine where it stops, if it stops.

    At some point there must be an "edge" if you will. The traveling front of the "big bang" if our understanding is correct. The background residual radition tends to support that a big bang occurred. Behind that front at some point matter and energy exists.

    What is ahead of that "front" who knows? We can not convieve if is space without matter or something else entirely. However redshift leads us to believe it is headed "somewhere" at a good velocity. Wherever that somewhere is and consists of, is the question, is it not?
    you are talking about the matter and energy space is not defined by the matter and energy, think of space without any matter or energy in it NOW you can see the universe! and you would find that space ends and has a shape.
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  23. #22  
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    If space has a shape, it is most likely like that of a ballon or sphere. It was the reason for the last post with the references to the big bang, redshift, the big bang front and the indications of there being more than we can see at present time.

    We are like the caveman exploring the dark recessess of the cave. We don't have enough knowledge to make sense of all we see. Nor do we have the capacity at present to grasp the true meaning of infinite.

    There is something that the front is traveling into for sure. What it is we can not at present say, that I know of. Maybe it is empty space without anything there. Maybe it makes it as it goes along. I have no answers on this, don't know anyone that does.

    However the omega factor is less than one, meaning that the part we do know of should continue to expand forever and never return for the big crunch. It will have to expand into something. What that something is, I have no idea. But one thing I am sure of, neither of us can comprehend infinite. Even if tomorrow we found some sort of boundry, what we do know exists right now for all intents and purposes is infinite with matter in it. What exists on the far side of that boundry is anyones guess.
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  24. #23 none 
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleft
    If space has a shape, it is most likely like that of a ballon or sphere. It was the reason for the last post with the references to the big bang, redshift, the big bang front and the indications of there being more than we can see at present time.

    We are like the caveman exploring the dark recessess of the cave. We don't have enough knowledge to make sense of all we see. Nor do we have the capacity at present to grasp the true meaning of infinite.

    There is something that the front is traveling into for sure. What it is we can not at present say, that I know of. Maybe it is empty space without anything there. Maybe it makes it as it goes along. I have no answers on this, don't know anyone that does.

    However the omega factor is less than one, meaning that the part we do know of should continue to expand forever and never return for the big crunch. It will have to expand into something. What that something is, I have no idea. But one thing I am sure of, neither of us can comprehend infinite. Even if tomorrow we found some sort of boundry, what we do know exists right now for all intents and purposes is infinite with matter in it. What exists on the far side of that boundry is anyones guess.
    you have no evidence that space goes on infinitely none and that is pretty much what people have always believed that space goes on infinitely that is a very good reason to believe that is wrong and it is wrong because space ends and has a shape!
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  25. #24  
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    And what shape is that?
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  26. #25 4 u 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke
    And what shape is that?
    4u

    those kinds of questions will cost you ten times the amount of money nasa has received so far
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  27. #26  
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    So far, beyond stating over and over that space has shape and a definate size by that statement you have shown no evidence contary to support your statement. Saying it over and over doesn't make it so.
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  28. #27 saying space goes on forever and ever doesn't make it so 
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleft
    So far, beyond stating over and over that space has shape and a definate size by that statement you have shown no evidence contary to support your statement. Saying it over and over doesn't make it so.
    saying space goes on forever and ever doesn't make it so

    you have no evidence that space goes on infinitely none and that is pretty much what people have always believed that space goes on infinitely that is a very good reason to believe that is wrong and it is wrong because space ends and has a shape!
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  29. #28  
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    This thread explores concepts of science that are not currently accepted. Zazzzoom your first post needs to say a little more than just stating space has a shape, and then repeating it over and over. Offer some support for what you are claiming. People will not just agree with you and see your point of view if you don't give them a reason to.

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    First of all we need to define space. Is it the limit of the universe (if said limit exists) or is it all area surrounding the universe that it is expanding into (if it is expanding). I am confining "space" to the limits of the universe.

    If the bing bang did occur then all matter was compressed into a singularity and the universe was at that time infintesimally small. Once it exploded there would be limits at the edges of the explosion. The volume enclosed in this space would be finite. If this space is expanding at the speed of light then we would not be able to detect these limits as they are moving away as fast as the light being sent back.
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    Bill Bryson's book "A quick history of nearly everything" touches on this. I don't remember it very well and I'm no expert, just relaying info: Apparently you imagine the universe as a sphere, and space is on the surface of that sphere.
    So if you kept on going in one direction you would never reach the end of space, but you would eventually end up where you started.
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  32. #31 Re: saying space goes on forever and ever doesn't make it so 
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    Quote Originally Posted by zazzzoom
    Quote Originally Posted by cleft
    So far, beyond stating over and over that space has shape and a definate size by that statement you have shown no evidence contary to support your statement. Saying it over and over doesn't make it so.
    saying space goes on forever and ever doesn't make it so

    you have no evidence that space goes on infinitely none and that is pretty much what people have always believed that space goes on infinitely that is a very good reason to believe that is wrong and it is wrong because space ends and has a shape!
    And you have provided no evidence whatsoever to prove us wrong. We are right because it is the widely accepted scientific theory. Many scientists have got evidence to prove this. You have done no research at all and just think we will accept your view. Wrong. Get some facts or something.
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    If the theoretical "leading edge" of space is expanding at the speed of light, then there is no way for us to observe it, or what lies past it, which means that it will always be a mystery.
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  34. #33 Re: saying space goes on forever and ever doesn't make it so 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Communist Hamster
    Quote Originally Posted by zazzzoom
    Quote Originally Posted by cleft
    So far, beyond stating over and over that space has shape and a definate size by that statement you have shown no evidence contary to support your statement. Saying it over and over doesn't make it so.
    saying space goes on forever and ever doesn't make it so

    you have no evidence that space goes on infinitely none and that is pretty much what people have always believed that space goes on infinitely that is a very good reason to believe that is wrong and it is wrong because space ends and has a shape!
    And you have provided no evidence whatsoever to prove us wrong. We are right because it is the widely accepted scientific theory. Many scientists have got evidence to prove this. You have done no research at all and just think we will accept your view. Wrong. Get some facts or something.

    THE WORLD IS FLAT and the sun goes around it!

    you have no evidence that space goes on infinitely none and that is pretty much what people have always believed that space goes on infinitely that is a very good reason to believe that is wrong and it is wrong because space ends and has a shape
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  35. #34  
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    Look Zazzzoom, you are going to need to start communicating your views a little more clearly. Explain your reasoning. Repeating that sentence over and over is not going to convince anyone. Just spend 10 minutes and explain how you came to the conclusion you did.
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  36. #35 hay stupid! 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke
    Look Zazzzoom, you are going to need to start communicating your views a little more clearly. Explain your reasoning. Repeating that sentence over and over is not going to convince anyone. Just spend 10 minutes and explain how you came to the conclusion you did.
    you got to come up with the money ten times the amount that nasa has received

    all of you want to walk around saying space goes on forever show your evidence
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  37. #36  
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    HELLO? HELLOOO? IS THERE ANYONE IN THAT SKULL????
    We are asking you to state your argument. You are just saying one sentence over and over and over, and asking US to provide evidence when it is YOU who has come up with a new idea.
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  38. #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Communist Hamster
    HELLO? HELLOOO? IS THERE ANYONE IN THAT SKULL????
    We are asking you to state your argument. You are just saying one sentence over and over and over, and asking US to provide evidence when it is YOU who has come up with a new idea.
    THE WORLD IS FLAT and the sun goes around it!

    you have no evidence that space goes on infinitely none and that is pretty much what people have always believed that space goes on infinitely that is a very good reason to believe that is wrong and the universe doesn't give up its secrets so easly and there are only tow possibleities it ends or it doesn't and it is wrong because space ends and has a shape

    now lets see your evidence it goes on forever

    and i have more evidence but it is very expensive
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  39. #38  
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    This thread is going round in circles.
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    I would like to see some data that space is infinite. As far as I know scientists think that the universe is expanding and will be forever. Therefore, space must have a definite volume. Even though it will continue expanding forever, thereby being considered infinite because no matter how far you go space will eventually catch up. At any given moment in time space has an absolute volume.

    I typed this very quickly. So to clarify: Space is finite based on scientific reasoning that an expanding body must have a definite (but always increasing) volume.
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  41. #40  
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    Sploit,

    Yeah. I've been kinda following this thread a bit too without feeling the urge to post. But you're right. Space isn't infinite. (The gang sure was having fun though, weren't they?)

    But, the question is... what is outside of space? The thing about space is that according to modern theories, space-time is created by matter and energy.

    So. The question is what happens when you get to the edge of space?

    Quite a few paradoxes present themselves here.

    One is that if you ever reached the edge of space (i.e. a point in space empty of all matter and thus not defined in space and time) then you would be there. Thus defining it and making it space and time. Therefore, you could never reach the edge of space. Where ever you go... there you are.

    Another thing to take into consideration is that we're dealing with space-time. At any one moment space may be a finite number, but according to the current view of space expanding forever (no big crunch or steady state according to the prevailing attitudes) then space is infinite in time. In one direction anyway...

    Which leads to another paradox, of course. Split infinity. If space-time has a beginning (the Big Bang) but goes on forever after that... can it be termed infinite? Infinity/2?

    What if we're dealing with limits? What if space-time limits towards 0 at one end and infinity at the other? Never quite reaching either. Then would it be infinite in space and time? I think that this is how it works. As one draws closer to the moment of the big bang, time scales expand in a logarhythmic fashion. Until we hit... 10^-43 seconds after the big bang (by one model) prior to which nothing can be predicted about the state of the universe until new quantum laws of gravity are devised.

    Anyway, we can see that the progression can actually continue in an infinite fashion at both ends of the scale... in a way.


    See, Zazzoom seems to think he's onto some amazing thing by stating that universe is not infinite and that it has shape. I suppose that he expects people to go read his website (which I'm not inclined to do. If he wants to talk about anything in particular he can say it here or not at all as far as I'm concerned.) But, anyway, he's not onto anything... Space is finite. And it does have a shape (rather a variety of shapes depending on its contents at any location).

    What I object to is his inability to express what he's trying to say. His unwillingness. Instead he's content to merely state the same general, vague, and useless comments over and over again rather than actually explain his point.

    Space is finite and has a shape. Ok. So what? What is the shape? How is it determined? What effects does it have on the universe? How does it differ from prevailing theory? What is outside of space? What is the border between space and non-space like?

    I could easily make a thread saying, "The earth is finite and has a shape." But why would I?
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  42. #41  
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    Bill Bryson's book "A quick history of nearly everything" touches on this. I don't remember it very well and I'm no expert, just relaying info: Apparently you imagine the universe as a sphere, and space is on the surface of that sphere.
    So if you kept on going in one direction you would never reach the end of space, but you would eventually end up where you started.
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    What happens if you move away from the surface? or into it?
    Maybe up or down are one of the other dimensions presented in string theory.
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    Is it really so hard for people to imagine space for what it is, a void. Close your eyes and imagine yourself in a pitch black place, think of nothing but the darkness. Now start walking. In your mind you can walk forever in this darkness. Space is like that place in your mind, you can realize your walking in something yet it doesn't have any form. Perhaps this thread should be called matter ends, or the universe ends. Space doesn't have a beginning or an end, it's void. It does however exist.
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  45. #44  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sploit
    What happens if you move away from the surface? or into it?
    Maybe up or down are one of the other dimensions presented in string theory.
    The sphere isn't three dimensional obviously.
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  46. #45 just because 
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    Quote Originally Posted by (In)Sanity
    Is it really so hard for people to imagine space for what it is, a void. Close your eyes and imagine yourself in a pitch black place, think of nothing but the darkness. Now start walking. In your mind you can walk forever in this darkness. Space is like that place in your mind, you can realize your walking in something yet it doesn't have any form. Perhaps this thread should be called matter ends, or the universe ends. Space doesn't have a beginning or an end, it's void. It does however exist.
    just because everyone has believed that space is infinate doesn't make it so
    in fact i see that as a reason to say that is wrong there is no evidence that space is infinate just because you can't go to where it ends.
    the universe does not give up its secrets easily
    and because people have believed space is infinate for so long is a very good reason that is wrong
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    Quote Originally Posted by kestasjk
    Bill Bryson's book "A quick history of nearly everything" touches on this. I don't remember it very well and I'm no expert, just relaying info: Apparently you imagine the universe as a sphere, and space is on the surface of that sphere.
    So if you kept on going in one direction you would never reach the end of space, but you would eventually end up where you started.
    Taken from 'A Short History of Nearly Everything' by Bill Bryson:

    The analogy that is usually given for explaining the curvature of space is to try and imagine someone from a universe of flat surfaces, who had never seen a sphere, being brought to Earth. No matter how far he roamed across the planets surface, he would never find an edge. He might eventually return to the spot where he had started, and would of course be utterly confounded to explain how that had happened. Well, we are in the same position in space as our puzzled flatlander, only we are flummoxed by a higher dimension.

    The Universe is not only queerer than we suppose; it is queerer than we can suppose – J. B. S. Haldane
    What was God doing before He created the Universe?
    Before He created Heaven and Earth, God created Hell to be used for people such as you who ask this kind of question.
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  48. #47  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Communist Hamster
    Space is forever expanding, so it is infinite and does not end. Therefore you are wrong.
    Do you have any evidence to support this statement, or are you just guessing? Does this "you are wrong" enhance the value of your argument by replacing the need for evidence?
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    I once heard someone say that space is shapped like an egg? So it appears to be endless.

    I have no idea if Space is endless or not - no way to test such a thing, is there? As a believer (in God) anytime I find myself discussing this issue I feel the need for a God becomes overwealming.

    but anyways.. I'm no astronomer, but I thought this was an interesting topic anywho. 8)
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    Space is time, time has no end. That's why it is space-time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Communist Hamster
    Space is forever expanding, so it is infinite and does not end. Therefore you are wrong.
    if space is expanding then it must end because it would have nowhere to expand otherwise.
    "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell
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  52. #51  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Communist Hamster
    Space is forever expanding, so it is infinite and does not end. Therefore you are wrong.
    You can't physically prove that, therefore his speculations are just as correct as yours.

    Though yours more than likely have more backing..

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    I was just thinking about starting a thread like this-though i would have hoped for a more inteligent way to go about it than zazzzoom has..just saying that something is so, isnt science its a blind faith... adn saying that it should be wrong just cuz thats whats been believed for so long isnt the right way to go about it either. Just cuz we think smashing our faces in with a brick is And has been believed to hurt for so long isnt a good reason to stop believing just that.

    -i do have a few theories on this one since ive spend the majority of my life pondering it. i dont think space 'ends' i think its more cyclical. but to clarify ill give you some of my beliefs and a little bit about definitions.

    i think that there are universes beyond our universe. that is to say that after this 'edge of space' and an unimaginable void (of true space)..there is the edge of another universe and so on (like an infinitely large tray of cups as it were)

    When i say space, its the place where not enough matter exists and there is not enough energy in it to count as anything.
    When i say the universe, i mean the sphere (going by the generally accepted big bang theory) of matter expanding in all directions, AND the light that it produces going in both direction outwards.
    but that creates an interesting pattern, a familiar, one doesnt it?

    i read somewhere that the nucleus of an atom and the electron are spaced very far apart, for there relative size, somthing like 10,000x (or something like that.. lets just say it is for my sake) . i understood it this way, if the nucleus of an atom were the size of a marble, the nearest electron would be a mile away.
    so what i believe, is that if we were to measure the material universe (from the tip to the tip to the tip of the farthest galaxies) and multiply that enormous distance by 10,000, you would reach the point in space where light (in what state i couldnt imagine) would start to bend back on itself and start orbiting the universe, creating for all intrinsic purposes 'the edge'. (if zazzzoom had said somehting like this in the beginning maybe this thread would be more lively..)

    therefore i think that our entire universe is just an atom among a -near- infinitum of atoms, and that atoms are an infinitum of universes.

    (maybe ill start a thread on just that subject and see how many haters i can accumulate =) )
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  54. #53  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd Ass City
    therefore i think that our entire universe is just an atom among a -near- infinitum of atoms, and that atoms are an infinitum of universes.
    I believe that's essentially true.

    "Universe" then refers to something local, much as "galaxy" does since we know of galaxies beyond our own. I prefer the term "local universe" or "our bang" etc. But you could all it "our atom" too if the shoe fits!

    a -near- infinitum
    Why stop? Doesn't that complicate things?

    Anyway, you must have understood that infinity has no center, so it extends both ways. Right on.
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  55. #54  
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    I end
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  56. #55  
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    Our universe basically formed by exploding outward. This would imply that it's finite, because something infinite cannot come from soemthing finite. What I think is that space DOES have a border, but it's constantly expanding away from us. Think of a bubble that's eternally getting bigger.
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