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Thread: 1811 A Comet and A Quake

  1. #1 1811 A Comet and A Quake 
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    December 16, 2011 marks the two hundredth anniversary of when a piece of Comet C/1811 F1 [The Great Comet of 1811] impacted our planet and caused "The New Madrid Earthquake", also known as "The Great Earthquake" catastrophe. This has been a little known lost piece of history for the past two centuries, that very few have studied and have seriously looked into, although the evidence is all there and becomes very clear when all the pieces come together. I understand how incredible this may sound, but once this has been fully investigated, it will be found to be the truth. If this may be of interest to you, then I invite you to google "Kalopins Legacy", at wix.com go to [documents and links] "a few comments on 1811", and read this article. Study the photos, watch the video, study the satellite view, the original accounts, the great amount of evidence that should not be missing, and all you may find on the events of 1811-1812. See how fascinating a story this becomes!


    Last edited by Kalopin; November 24th, 2011 at 06:32 PM.
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    If the new madrid quake was a meteor or comet impact there should be current physical evidence of it. On superficial consideration an earth quake and a impact event have very different "foot prints".


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    There really is plenty of evidence. The lines you see from a satellite view, appear as a huge thumbprint and are from a shockwave that occurred at impact and cover more than four states. Look closely, they all incircle the impact site, in the middle, right at the top of Mississippi and partly into Tennessee. This is where the meteorites, petrified wood, once molten rocks, and incased body parts were found. I hope you will take a moment and read the article. It explains alot more.
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    Please supply the evidence here if you want to discuss it.
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    That's what I find everywhere I go! I guess , just answer a few questions: Why did I find all these strange rocks at the center of all these stratus lines, so clearly visible on a satellite view? Why are there no trees near two hundred years old for many miles in the area? Why will you find no accounts at The Office of Indian Affairs from 1809-1822? Why do you find so few original accounts and only a couple newspaper articles, when every town that existed at the time had at least one newspaper? Why are there so many round and oval depression running in a straight line from northwest to southeast through The Carolinas, that are obviously craters, all of which or in topsoil and sand that would easily erode, they even had to stop the farmers from plowing through them, although are said to be thousands of years old? How could someone [don't have a name] have discovered a volcano 2900 feet below Jackson Mississippi in 1819 with no ground penetrating radar and few, if any geologists? And why was it referred to by the natives as "Fire Mountain"? And, why did it sit on an island referred to as "Jackson Island", after Andrew Jackson?

    Please read "The Accounts of Samuel Mitchell 1815" in its entirity. Go down to where Captain Robert Alexander from North Carolina speaks of the several meteor showers. Go to where the report of the natives, up "The Washita Valley" tell of how "Fire Mountain" had been "rent" [flattened] to its base. Read "Travels Through the Equinoctail Regions of America, Chapter 14". Read "Panther Across The Sky, Tecumseh and The New Madrid Earthquake 1811/12". Google "extinct volcano underneath coliseum in Jackson Mississippi" and go to keyhole.com . There are many accounts reporting bright lights across the skies and the sounds of many explosions at the same time as the quake, and reports of meteor showere prior to and after the first large quake.
    Last edited by Kalopin; December 8th, 2011 at 10:44 PM.
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    Where is the crater? What size are you suggesting the impacting object was? What "strange rocks" did you find? The whole BIA? Most small town newspapers did not have good archives so mach of their early printings have been lost to decay. Easy Geology of the surface rocks would indicate the presence of the volcano, which by the way went extinct 65mya. Not sure what your source is for the "fire mountain" bit. Why is the Jackson name even relevant? The Carolina bays are not though to be impacts at all is even if they are, the age for their creation is accepted by all as in the Pleistocene, NOT in 1811. Who supposedly stopped the farmers from tilling the area?
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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    All that's at the web site, google "Kalopins Legacy", and go to wix.com. I hope you will take a moment to view and enlarge the photos of a few of the stones found in an around the northwest face of the crater. The immediate crater, although, due to its make-up [trees, gravel sand, and dirt] is somewhat difficult to make out, is in Northern Mississippi, right at the top on the Tennessee State Line, almost in the middle, zoom in, see the circular patterns, and pan out from there. You should notice that all the rivers to the north, such as The Hatchie and The Wolf incircle the area, this impact is also the reason that The Tennessee River flows back northward, and this was also responsible for the creation of Reelfoot Lake. To the south the man-made lakes, such as Arkabutla, Sardis, and Enid all run from east to west beneath the impact and is where the land was split apart and pulled upward by the blast. The circular stratus lines across the Mississippi River in Arkansas show the strength of the impact.

    There is a lot to really study to fully understand what had occurred. You have to understand, this was not your average meteor, composed mostly of iron and in which, most all other material was burned off in the atmosphere during entry, such as The Barringer Crater in Arizona meteor impact, that came in at a high trajectory, was almost solid iron, and made an almost perfect crater, due to ventrification, the make-up of the impact site, being desert sand, hardly any weather, or development. This was quite the opposite. This meteor came, I believe, from the coma of the comet as it passed. was composed of many rocks, mostly stoney meteors, incased in ice that only half melted and came in at a lower trajectory hitting frozen lakes[as it was one of the coldest winters on record], marshland, trees, gravel, dirt, and sand, most of which immediately returned to fill in the majority of the crater, and has since had quite a bit of development.

    At my site, please take a long look at the picture of the girls chest that is now solid iron. You can easily make out her fingernail and a neckless she wore. Another is a talon from a large bird, that must have been either in its nest or hit during flight, I have several of these, it seems what would have been the coldest parts of the people and animals. This is among many rocks, I have found that are body parts from the natives and the animals in the area at the time of impact.

    Yes, I realize how quite unbelievable all this may sound, but I do hope that you study all the evidence you may find on the events of 1811-1812. I have been working on this, now for more than a decade, and I hope to give you enough convincing evidence.
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    Post the pictures here and it will be much easier to discuss this.

    First thing I note, I'm not seeing any of the structures you seem to see in to topography of the area.

    How in the world would organic matter be converted to iron, especially if the impact was from a stony meteorite?

    How did you determine these "meteorites" to be actual meteorites and not normal sediment concretions?
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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    Yea, it takes forever to post pictures, but I might give it a try, it would just take you a second to go to the site. Anyway, I believe this piece of the comet was approximately a quarter to a half mile in diameter before hitting our atmosphere, and only about half melted, coming in from the southeast at a low trajectory, maybe forty or fifty degrees and impacted with such major force to produce the quakes, and as it was aimed to te northwest directly at the top northwest corner of Tennessee and The Missouri Boothill, raised te land and created Reelfoot lake. However, it would be nice to find professionals to properly investigate my findings, which, as I have made great effort, am still looking.

    The stratus lines are not difficult to see, maybe put the whole river valley on screen, then pay attention to the line circling up from Alabama, this is the original beachfront before this event,, follow it up through Tennessee up The Tennessee River, go around through Reelfoot Lake, around The Missouri Boothill, around through the western part of Arkansas and back to the Mississippi River down to Louisianna, it appears as a thumbprint and incircles the impact site like a bullseye.

    It wasn't ALL stoney meteorites, there was plenty iron as welll, it was a big mix of many type rocks that would have normally burned up during entry into Earth's atmospjhere, but wee incased in ice, so were able to make impact along with the much stronger iron compositions.

    Determining these to be meteorites, other than the obvious appearance [shocked quartz, nanodiamonds, fusion crust, the look of iridium], has been a long and difficult struggle, as I have now "lost" 16 samples to different "meteoritical services". First I had a person from U.S.G.S. come over [probably shouldn't give a name rigt now] and see my evidence, she was fully convinced and amazed, she took four samples, and said they were going to A.S.U. for analysis, BUT, she said a geologist friend [who works for C.E.R.I., and gets government grants for research with earthquakes, get it?], [I know his name two] of hers told her they were iron concretions from "The Upper Midland Drift", and they sent her to Haiti. She would not contact me and never returned the samples. At that same time I sent four samples to A.S.U. and when I called two days after she went to Haiti, they had shut the center down for the public due to a lack of funding. Not very long afterward I sent four samples to N.E.M.S. [ New England Meteoritical Services] by prority mail for the fouteen day service, never heard back, called and tjhe "professor" said they must have been misplaced or lost and to send him some samples directly, which I did, and they two were "lost". Now, what would you think? Oh, and The Upper Midland Drift is the name they gave to the formation of the stratus lines from the shockwave that I've been talking about. They believe this formation was formed from an ice sheet retreating and somehow pulled the land upward against gravity and away from the equator, NOT possible! These rocks could NOT have been formed from ice and are not volcanic, they were found on the surface of creeks and hillsides, and were obviously molten.

    Concerning The Carolina Bay Craters. In 1940 scientists determined they were from meteor shower impacts from a comet 139 years ago [1811]. Since then, this has been distorted to say "scientists in the 30s and 40s said they were 13,900 years old. Now, how did our "modern" scientists come up with 10,000 to 100,000 years old? They dated the soil [blue and gray clay, also easily eroded] from in and around the craters! What scientist would actually believe this would date the time the impressions first appeared? If anything, this only dated the time the soil sample taken settled. Do you not believe that, being on the coast and having rich soil, this land wouldn't have been developed or farmed on, in such a long time frame? They say they were formed from wind swirls or water currents or eddies, when they all run in the same direction [from northwest to southeast], are perfectly round and oval, have higher ridges on the southeast rims with white sand around the top edge [easily eroded]. And, why aren't there many more examples of this design in other places on our planet with similar conditions of wind, soil make-up, and water patterns? And, the site stated that they had to stop farmers from plowing through them, I guess to preserve them [after tens of thousands of years?]

    So, let me ask, you know of a good investigative scientist that does field work and would want to see first hand this, convincing evidence? Let me know!
    Soon the facts will speak for theirselves, and the ones who have attempted to distort evidence and add propaganda for personal gain will be outed and all will know this impct to be true.
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    IMG_3244.jpgIMG_3283.jpgIMG_3250.jpgIMG_3246.jpg
    girls' chest encased, bird talon encased, meteorite, once molten rock
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    Last edited by Kalopin; December 8th, 2011 at 11:34 AM.
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    IMG_3231.jpgIMG_3235.jpgIMG_3290.jpg
    Petrified wood [quartz], iron meteorite wrapped in rock, cross section arm bone incased
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    Please give the names and addresses of the qualified archaeologists and geologists who agree with your interpretation of these items and photos of them "in stitu" before you moved them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    girls' chest incased, bird talon incased, meteorite, once molten rock
    Chonosuke-kun, is that you?
    Improbable Research (and just in case you are tempted to take that seriously, Pareidolia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).
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    Strangeness, you definately picked the right nick-name. Just believe that they are what you want to believe they are, you will anyway. Are you a qualified geologist? Guess what,I have NO doubt that these are in fact what I have stated. Several you can still see the bones! But go ahead tell me what you think...
    Last edited by Kalopin; December 8th, 2011 at 11:14 AM.
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    So, if you think there is something organic encased in these have you tried sawing one in half to examine it?
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    One day, but just dulled and broke blades. I was able to break one of the larger meteorite looking stones open one time, it was hollow and had about a quarter to a half inch thick walls and it was full of a very fine reddish sand, which I kept in a bag, and later I ended up glueing the stone back together with silicon. I have a few photos of it also, but right now they are on another laptop, although there are a couple at the site. But it seems that the bones would easily date this, to prove me right or wrong. I wouldn't be that disappointed because obviously something out of the ordinary had to have happened.
    Last edited by Kalopin; December 8th, 2011 at 11:32 AM.
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    IMG_3006.jpg

    This is what an iron meteorite looks like. It's a 2.5 pound Canyon Diablo Iron. (It's not the white one, that's a baseball used for size comparison )

    Comets don't contain iron, they are ices, dust, and silicates.

    If a 1/4 to 1/2 mile comet had struck, the following would have occurred within a 60 mile radius.

    Everyone would have been burned.
    Trees, wood houses, and grass would have ignited.
    Wood frame buildings would all have collapsed.
    90% of the trees would have been blown down, the rest stripped of bark and vegetation.
    All windows would have shattered.
    5 minutes after the impact, 60 miles away, a 400+ mph wind would have finished the destruction.
    There would be an 8 mile diameter crater, almost half a mile in deep.

    Any evidence for any of these things?

    I think not.

    This is a subject I know very well, note my username.
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    Thanks for the photo. As you can imagine, I have studied many meteorites, wondering what I have. All I can come up with is that these are so different, due to the fact that they were encased in ice, I guess. Although I do have quite a few smaller ones that are black, heavy, much more magnetic, iron samples. I should take more and better pictures. There are a couple at the site with small iron meteorites but, if you look you will see there are several in the photo. Maybe I could upload more.
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    Great, you looked at the photo.

    Any response to my comments?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Thanks for the photo. As you can imagine, I have studied many meteorites, wondering what I have..
    To be honest, I imagine no such thing. Where have your "meteorites" been tested to ensure they are not meteorwrongs?

    Do you think they are meteorites just because you think they look like what you imagine them to?

    Or, considering the radical and unsupportable idea you are suggesting, have you done due diligence to collect scientific evidence?
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    Nope, just got the evidence at hand, and not forcing your belief system. All are estimates and precision-guesswork, cannot deny. But I did say a quarter to a half mile BEFORE entering our atmosphere, and I did say this was a PIECE of a comet, many smaller rocks covered in ice and the land was also covered in ice, so limits your "fire" theory.

    A;though there WAS major destruction. This wiped out thousands of natives, but no written text. New Madrid, as several other towns was a French settlement and really didn't get along so well with the English. Actually, there was quite a bit of fighting between natives, French, Spanish, English, and the newly formed U.S. settlers. Don't forget The War of 1812. There were very few settlers anywhere near the area. The closest towns were Memphis, Natchez, Nashville, and a town called Cotton Gin Port on the Tombigbee, that no longer exists.

    Try not to just be so skeptical and go ahead and look it all up. Tecumseh and his brother predicted the comet and the solar eclipse to the day. Several astronomers reported the comet as fifty percent larger than the sun and having a coma of more than a million miles in the days prior. It couldn't have been that large, so it must have been very close. There were several meteor showers at the same time. Study the satellite view, the photos of the rocks, the original accounts, read the article "a few comments on 1811". The evidence becomes overwhelming after enough investigation. Really, it seems as though, with all this proof, that this would already be common knowledge.

    Have I not collected enough scientific evidence to warrant investigation? No testing facility near, I know, sad educational system, and you have the disturbing story of my attempts. I want to prove this, and would be happy to show you more. So e-mail me at kalopinslegacy@yahoo.com ,you can come by and check it out. If I'm wrong, well nice place to visit anyway, but if I'm right, just think! And you can have a couple, few samples for the helping to prove it!
    Last edited by Kalopin; December 8th, 2011 at 06:05 PM.
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    I'm not going to download anything from your website. I don't trust any unknown site. That's why my computer is safe.

    If you want to discuss anything, post the discussion or "evidence" that's on your website here.

    Give me coordinates to center my google earth view on, and tell me what you think you see.
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    Can't really type out the whole fourteen pages, time issues. On Google Earth coordinates 34*58'31.38" N x 89*24'17.15 W should take you to a small field at the northwest corner of the basin of the crater. If not up hwy.72 to North Slayden up to Concord Rd. to Dio Rd., or look for Concord Church, and pan out from there.

    The immediate crater is between ten to fifteen miles in diameter, but is obscured by trees and development. When you pan out far enough, the lines are easily visible and surround the impact site.

    There was no way at the time to measure distances in space with any accuracy, [look up history of the telescope] and the measurements given, however inacurate, were more than likely when the comet was on its way in towards the sun, and after it slingshots around the sun, breaking apart and appearing much larger, passes our planet and as the Earth travels through the coma of the comet, this is when the meteor showers appeared, and finally a large enough piece to cause this destruction. Also, there was no way to measure the strength of the quakes with any accuracy either, there were no seismographs, as Richter hadn't even been born yet. So all measurements and strengths are assumptions based on hear-say evidence. The people in New Madrid just believed it to be worse there because the direction of impact was aimed straight to their town. But in fact the epicenter was the impact from this meteor in Northern Mississippi.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Although there WAS major destruction. This wiped out thousands of natives, but no written text.
    Aha, so no evidence

    Try not to just be so skeptical and go ahead and look it all up.
    BS. I am a scientist. I am by nature skeptical. I want actual evidence, not speculation.
    I am also a meteor/asteroid/comet expert.

    Tecumseh and his brother predicted the comet and the solar eclipse to the day.
    And your evidenvce for that is???

    Several astronomers reported the comet as fifty percent larger than the sun and having a coma of more than a million miles in the days prior. It couldn't have been that large, so it must have been very close.
    Who? Where are the reports written, so I can examine them?

    There were several meteor showers at the same time.
    Well the Geminids occur NOW every year at around that time. And there are 6 or 7 other active minor showers, depending on which day you pick and which year it is. Please show how they are related. What was the orbit of the impactor...Oh, Gee the Geminid's parent object isn't a comet. Too bad


    Study the satellite view, the photos of the rocks, the original accounts, read the article "a few comments on 1811". The evidence becomes overwhelming after enough investigation. Really, it seems as though, with all this proof, that this would already be common knowledge.
    Like I said, post the data here, so we can discuss it, or go away. I will not skulk around your site and download stuff on to my computer.

    Have I not collected enough scientific evidence to warrant investigation?
    No

    No testing facility near, I know, sad educational system, and you have the disturbing story of my attempts.
    Maybe after seeing your "samples" they couldn't stop laughing long enough to tell you they ain't meteorites.

    I want to prove this, and would be happy to show you more. So e-mail me at kalopinslegacy@yahoo.com ,you can come by and check it out. If I'm wrong, well nice place to visit anyway, but if I'm right, just think! And you can have a couple, few samples for the helping to prove it!
    Balony. You are making unfounded speculation, thinking terrestrial rocks are meteorites, and seeing things that aren't there.

    But I will be happy to examine your arguments (not the unsupported speculation you post here), and look at the space images. Just give me the coordinates that I have already asked for, without response. Post your text here (which will hopefully show some evidence) and we can discuss it.

    Wayne
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Nope, just got the evidence at hand, and not forcing your belief system. All are estimates and precision-guesswork, cannot deny. But I did say a quarter to a half mile BEFORE entering our atmosphere, and I did say this was a PIECE of a comet, many smaller rocks covered in ice and the land was also covered in ice, so limits your "fire" theory.
    Wrong again. I used pre atmospheric size in the calcualtions. Actually, a cometary body would break up very high in the atmosphere. ( 54 miles) that was all figured into the results I described.

    So no, it's not precision guesswork, it's silly guesswork so far.

    Show me your facts, your evidence, and I will examine it with an open mind. I can learn.
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    Meteorwayne, you are NO scientist, and you prove this with your incoherence. A real scientist investigates and does not sit there waiting for others to show evidence. I am not here to prove anything to someone that has such little investigative knowledge. If you can not simply do a google search or download a simple article, then I see no hope for you as a "scientist" in your future, and telling me to go away on a thread that I started sounds rather immature, and makes me wonder of your mental state! Your knowledge of meteor and cometary impacts disgusts me. You have no understanding of the varibles, inconsistancies, and intracacies involved, your statement makes the accusation that all impacts are, not even just simalar, but the same, that is rediculous! There are all types of astroid and comet make-ups, any variety of paths and trajectories, and many differences in an impact site, if you can not even grasp this simple concept, you should, probably first lose the name that you are unworthy of and go and study Now, if you want to be a real scientist look it up! At least so you don't get brainslapped again!
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    Kalopin, you are crossing the line. Behave yourself, or you're gone.
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    I have typed this out so many times for people just like you, with the same bad attitude towards investigation. can't you just go to Wikipedia," Great Comet of 1811"? Anyway, discovered by Honore' Flaugergeus on May 25 at 2.7 AU [that's astronomical units,lol], again after moon phase on April 11 by Jean-Louis Pons, first provisional orbit computed in June by Johann Karl Burckhardt and judging by his calculations Heinrich Wilhelm Matthaus Olbers made the prediction that it would go on to become very bright LATER THAT YEAR. Observations were difficult due to the fact it stayed in the Southern Hemisphere, which also explains the trajectory. It was William Herchel who had stated the comet as being fifty percent larger than the sun and a coma of more than a million miles in October, but even this has been distorted on many articles, apparantly even Wikipedia, look how they skip over and add it in later, after other astronomers see it fading in January of 1812. OR, oh he's just making things up!
    Last edited by Kalopin; December 8th, 2011 at 10:20 PM.
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    From the Wikepedia article:

    "In many ways the comet was quite similar to Comet Hale-Bopp: it became spectacular without passing particularly close to either the Earth or the Sun, but had an extremely large and active nucleus."

    Because of that, I had no reason to suspect that is what you were talking about.

    The closest it came to earth was 1.22 AU, further from us than the sun is. (From JPL sbdb Ephemeris)
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    Here's the reference of the Great Comet in Gary Kronk's Cometography, one of the best references for historical observations of comets.

    C&MS: C/1811 F1 (Great Comet)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Can't really type out the whole fourteen pages, time issues. On Google Earth coordinates 34*58'31.38" N x 89*24'17.15 W should take you to a small field at the northwest corner of the basin of the crater. If not up hwy.72 to North Slayden up to Concord Rd. to Dio Rd., or look for Concord Church, and pan out from there.

    The immediate crater is between ten to fifteen miles in diameter, but is obscured by trees and development. When you pan out far enough, the lines are easily visible and surround the impact site.
    I see nothing there that indicates a crater

    There was no way at the time to measure distances in space with any accuracy, [look up history of the telescope]
    Irrelevant, since distance cannot be measured with a telescope, only positions. Those positions are then used to calculate the orbit using Newton's and Keplers laws.

    and the measurements given, however inacurate, were more than likely when the comet was on its way in towards the sun, and after it slingshots around the sun, breaking apart and appearing much larger, passes our planet and as the Earth travels through the coma of the comet,
    Again, the earth never came closer than 1.2 AU (that's 112 million miles) to the comet, so there's no way we passed through the coma.

    this is when the meteor showers appeared, and finally a large enough piece to cause this destruction.
    Well the mid December meteor shower is the Geminids. The orbit of the parent object (3200 Phaethon) has an orbit about as different from C/1881 F1 as possible
    Comet orbital period: >3000 Years; Phaethon 1.43 years
    Inclination: Comet 107 degrees; Phaethon 22 degrees
    Perihelion: Comet 1.04 AU; Phaethon 0.14 AU (inside the orbit of Mercury)

    The meteor shower and comet are completely unrelated. It's basic physics. There is no possible shower from this comet (just as a shower from Hale-Bopp is impossible )as the ascending node occurs in the asteroid belt, and the descending node much closer to the orbit of Mars than that of the earth. At perihelion, it's over 1 AU above the plane of the solar system.

    Also, there was no way to measure the strength of the quakes with any accuracy either, there were no seismographs, as Richter hadn't even been born yet. So all measurements and strengths are assumptions based on hear-say evidence. The people in New Madrid just believed it to be worse there because the direction of impact was aimed straight to their town. But in fact the epicenter was the impact from this meteor in Northern Mississippi.
    It is true there was no accurate way to estimate the strength of earthquakes at that time. The method in use to determine that involves the use of the Modified Mercalli Scale, which is based on damage reports. There is a dearth of reports to the west of New Madrid due to the limited population, but the area to the east was populated; after all the Mississippi was a major commerce route. Sand boils caused by the quakes cover an area of ~ 11,000 sq km, centered on New Madrid. The current best estimates of the magnitudes are in the range of Mag 6.6 to 7.6, not the 8+ that was previously thought. But the location is known much more accurately.

    And you have provided nothing but anecdotal reports of an impact in Mississippi. Enough people lived there that they would have noticed an impact that would have created a 400 mph wind 60 miles away. And you can't realistically calculate an impact angle for the comet, since it never came closer to earth than 1.2 AU!
    Last edited by MeteorWayne; December 9th, 2011 at 04:54 AM. Reason: typo tp instead of to
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    Wayne, you are so very gullible. I tried to tell you much of the evidence has been distorted, you should see what C.E.R.I. has done! According to their interpatations they took ALL evidence of any bright lights going across the skies out of the accounts! They try to say "the lights" were due to gas pockets, quartz crystals, and/or ball lightning, and although all these may have occurred, it is not possible to see lights or hear explosions from several states over such as reported. How could someone in North Carolina [for one Captain Robert Alexander] see lights in New Madrid Missouri. It is not possible to see or hear a fireworks display even in the next town over.

    There were very few settlers at the time even in Memphis, Nashville, Natchez, New Madrid, and these towns weren't close enough.The only people near were natives and most were killed! It seems you didn't even read this thread. And, the "estimates" are wrong, bad wrong. They even changed the stories about the bells ringing in Boston and Chimneys falling so far away. They try to say it was "mid-plate tectonics" because they can't explain why the fault runs from east to west against the curvature of The North American Plate and why it just ends on either side. It is directly proportionate to the impact crater in North Mississippi. I see you have no trouble looking up propaganda, distortions, and falsified claims. I have had conversations with Mr. Gary Kronk, Susan Hough, Dr.Roy Van Arsdale, and many more involved with getting evidence misconstrued. I do see why these people have done this [the dollar].

    Why don't you look up the originals? I tell you what, just explain the one rock I posted of the little girls chest that is now iron. Do you not see her fingernail on her right index? Do you not see the necklace she wore? It's easy, It's no B.S.. And if you were ever to have the chance to hold this rock or any of a multitude of encased body parts that I have found, you would be able to see from every angle not just the outer shapes but the inside parts as well!

    You may continue to keep your blinders on, that is your choice, but that will NOT affect the truth! The cute, sweet, precious little comments you have made are a testament to the exact reason that this has been so overlooked. And for you or anyone to say they cannot see the stratus lines from the shockwave on satellite view is quite unbelievable. I have done my best to have more faith in human intelligence. I can't imagine that my I.Q. could be so much more advanced than someone such as you Wayne with your claims as a scientist and your Forum Ph.D. I have provided you with ample evidence of this impact and if you cannot see it, it is only because you refuse.
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    You ahve yet to tell us how you determined the material to be iron, or what processes would be involved in the conversion of flesh into iron in the first place! Also where is the iron coming from?
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    Those are good questions. They are magnetic. Conditions had to have been just right, as the body parts were cold enough [I've only found extremities] and the molten rock was at the point of re-solidifying, I guess. The iron had to be with the meteor or piece of comet, there is very little if any in the area, as almost all of the river valley consists of mainly gravel, then dirt and sand. That's another good clue, is that there are no natural large stones and boulders belomging to North Mississippi. It's too far from The Appalachian Mountains, and no where near The Ozarks, which is Limestone anyway. I have several large boulders, many with swirl designs, as I imagine they were airborne as they were still somewhat molten. I believe this may be the reason that I have any evidence at all, that the land was frozen. It was one of the coldest winters on record. If it would have been any warmer they may not have been near the amount, and devastation would have been much worse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Wayne, you are so very gullible. I tried to tell you much of the evidence has been distorted, you should see what C.E.R.I. has done!
    Yes, you told me, but you have provided no proof or evidence for that. It's just "I said so"

    According to their interpatations they took ALL evidence of any bright lights going across the skies out of the accounts! They try to say "the lights" were due to gas pockets, quartz crystals, and/or ball lightning, and although all these may have occurred, it is not possible to see lights or hear explosions from several states over such as reported. How could someone in North Carolina [for one Captain Robert Alexander] see lights in New Madrid Missouri. It is not possible to see or hear a fireworks display even in the next town over.
    Again, no evidence.

    There were very few settlers at the time even in Memphis, Nashville, Natchez, New Madrid, and these towns weren't close enough.The only people near were natives and most were killed! It seems you didn't even read this thread. And, the "estimates" are wrong, bad wrong. They even changed the stories about the bells ringing in Boston and Chimneys falling so far away. They try to say it was "mid-plate tectonics" because they can't explain why the fault runs from east to west against the curvature of The North American Plate and why it just ends on either side. It is directly proportionate to the impact crater in North Mississippi. I see you have no trouble looking up propaganda, distortions, and falsified claims. I have had conversations with Mr. Gary Kronk, Susan Hough, Dr.Roy Van Arsdale, and many more involved with getting evidence misconstrued. I do see why these people have done this [the dollar].
    Again, no evidence, no records of the conversations, just your sayso. And the professional scientists in the field must be wrong. "It's a conspiracy against me", not the unsupported assertions.

    Why don't you look up the originals? I tell you what, just explain the one rock I posted of the little girls chest that is now iron. Do you not see her fingernail on her right index? Do you not see the necklace she wore? It's easy, It's no B.S.. And if you were ever to have the chance to hold this rock or any of a multitude of encased body parts that I have found, you would be able to see from every angle not just the outer shapes but the inside parts as well!
    I have no idea what this might have to do with an alleged comet impact.

    You may continue to keep your blinders on, that is your choice, but that will NOT affect the truth! The cute, sweet, precious little comments you have made are a testament to the exact reason that this has been so overlooked. And for you or anyone to say they cannot see the stratus lines from the shockwave on satellite view is quite unbelievable. I have done my best to have more faith in human intelligence. I can't imagine that my I.Q. could be so much more advanced than someone such as you Wayne with your claims as a scientist and your Forum Ph.D. I have provided you with ample evidence of this impact and if you cannot see it, it is only because you refuse.
    You have provided NO evidence here except for some rocks that clearly are not meteorites.
    I'm still waiting for some.
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    Wayne, you have to look it up! And, do you wish to see my e-mails? And, tell me what you think the rocks are. This "conspiracy" is bigger than you can know. It goes back to the start. The Pearl River was "The Washita River". Plenty names were changed from Native American to what the "discoverers" [settlers] wanted, such as Witchita which means "big arbor" or tall trees, because the trees grew so big because they were on the coast. That's right the coastline was near or at Jackson Mississippi before this event. this is why "The Burning Mountain" was on "Jackson Island" and no that's not the one in Mark Twains' novel.
    Last edited by Kalopin; December 10th, 2011 at 01:39 AM.
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    Look what up? You've made so many unsupported claims, I wouldn't where to start, and since you have provided no evidence whatsoever other than your anecdotes, there's little reason to suggest I should spend the time and effort. I've tried to look up some of the reports that you alleged, and can not find them in a search. An extensive search.

    I have asked you to provide information that I can research and verify, you have not done so.

    The only place this stuff seems to exist is on your website, and it is not available by looking at the pages on the site, only by downlaoding material to my computer. As I said before, I will not do that. So either make you site more accessible, or post the evidence here.
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    Panther Across the Sky, Tecumseh and the New Madrid Earthquake,12/1811. PANTHER-ACROSS-THE-SKY: Tecumseh & the New Madrid Earthquake, 12/1811 [go down to Saturday November 16, 1811] ,extinct volcano underneath coleseum in Jackson, MS extinct volcano underneath coliseum in Jackson, MS - Google Earth Community . http://pasadena.wr.gov/office/hough/mitchell.html ,A Detailed narrative of the Earhtquakes which occured on the 16th day of December, 1811;[can't get this link to work, you may have to google it, but it is still there, SO FAR!] [The Accounts of Samuel Mitchell, 1815] by Susan E. Hough,[go down to Captain Robert Alaxanders' account, and the report from the natives about "Fire Mountain" being "rent",flattened to its base]. www.datasync.com/~rsf1/1811.htm 1811-12 New Madrid Earthquakes, a neo connection, by Bob Fritzius. Further results of impacts at Travels to the Equinoctial Regions ofAmerica http://www.globusz.com/ebooks/Eqinoctial/00000027.htm [chapter 14] The shock felt in Caracus in the month of December 1811.... http://www.hsv.com/genlints/newmadrid/ The Virtual Times:The New Madrid Earthquake, and go to the original accounts on this page, [read about the bright lights across the skies, the many loud explosions, the dark clouds of smoke, and the strong smell of sulfur].
    Last edited by Kalopin; December 9th, 2011 at 07:17 PM.
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    How does the first link support your argument. The Sky Panther refers to a comet when Tecumseh was born and no one here doubts there was an earthquake in Dec 1811.

    So what is there's an extinct volcano beneath Jackson MS?

    Connect the dots with actual evidence..instead of bird walking across random factoids from that area.
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    Did you not read where the natives saw the sign, the greenish light across the skies? The volcano sat on JACKSON Island, after Andrew Jackson during his lifetime and NOT in The Cretacious Period! For the Samuel Mitchell Accounts you may have to google "Transactions of the Literary and Philosophical Society of NY,vol 1 pp. 281-307". I understand this is quite a bit of information, but I do hope you take the time to read all of this.

    P,S. The name Tecumseh means Panther Across the Sky, which was given to him at birth. He predicted the comet in his twenties, and tried to use it to his advantage to gather the tribes and run out the settlers, but when the comet destroyed so many natives, many of the chiefs, including The Choctaw, Cherokee, Chickasaw, and Washita [which is now considered the oldest indiginous tribe on the planet], broke their final red sticks in front of Tecumseh and said it was a sign not to fight. Right then Tecumseh was expelled from The Choctaw, went with The Creek and The Shawnee, and formed The Red Stick Faction.

    P.S.S. Let me know when you want more. I have quite a few references.
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    Ya I did, which sounded much like brilliant meteor a full month before the earthquake, and if you accept the account, likely landed hundreds of miles North of the quakes epicenter. Again....please connect the dots, how do you think the two events link to each other?

    The volcano sat on JACKSON Island, after Andrew Jackson during his lifetime and NOT in The Cretacious Period!
    Evidence? The top of that volcano is almost 3000 feet under the river.
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    The meteor was only one of many that began on that date, read up. If the volcano was buried 2900 ft, below the city of Jackson Ms. during The Cretacious Period, how could the natives have named it "Fire Mountain" and how could the island, that it sat on have been named after Andrew Jackson? How could it have been discovered in 1819 with no ground penatrating radar and no geologists? They already knew that it was there, that's how!
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    [QUOTE=Kalopin;295979]The meteor was only one of many that began on that date, read up.

    What dates?

    Comet Flaugergues is the only candidate from that time...too far away. Do you have anything that shows any more meteor events than normal around December 1811?

    If the volcano was buried 2900 ft, below the city of Jackson Ms. during The Cretacious Period, how could the natives have named it "Fire Mountain"
    Source that..... And even if true that doesn't' mean it was a volcano. It could have been a popular place to stop along the river and build fires for the night for example or just a matter of bad translation.

    and how could the island, that it sat on have been named after Andrew Jackson?
    Jackson was pretty active along the Mississippi in at least two wars around those parts. An island of its size in the middle of the river was of obvious strategic importance--why not name it after the Colonel leading the battles? (or later for the General or President)

    How could it have been discovered in 1819 with no ground penatrating radar and no geologists? They already knew that it was there, that's how!
    It wasn't discovered until the mid 19th century.
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    Obviously, you didn't even read this thread, let alone any of the references. Should I continue an arguement with "the wall"? Honore' Flaugergues was the first astronomer to spot Comet C/1811 F1. This same comet has gone by many names, The great Comet of 1811, Tecumsehs Comet, Napoleans Comet, and yes Comet Flaugergues to name a few. This IS the comet I'm talking about! I did source where they called the volcano "Fire Mountain" and the island "Jackson Island", Accounts of Samuel Mitchell 1815, and google, extinct volcano underneath coloseum in Jackson Ms., and go to keyhole.com. You didn't see that? They stated "it had been "rent"[flattenes] to its base", this obviously refers to a mountain, and not a place where they build fires, as it was called Fire MOUNTAIN. And, yes a couple accounts say it was discovered in 1860 and others in 1819, this again proves the point of how badly history was misconstrued, even so, it wasn't verified until 1960, when they drilled down, a hundred years later. Still, no difference in 1860, so the question remains, regardless. How did they discover a volcano 2900 feet below Jackson Ms. in 1860?, and give a name or two, good luck...


    P.S. The comet was said to be fifty percent larger than the sun and a coma of more than a million miles. I hope you know better than to think it could be that large and still very far away. So it must have been very close at one point, and guess what that "measurement" was taken in October of 1811! Perfect timing.Look that up at Wikipedia, but I have other sources.
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    The problem is you're puting up walls of text and not connection anything for us.

    You state there were many other meteors after the account in early November leading up to the earthquake. I question you. You don't provide anything that provides any other accounts of what I asked for just saying: "The meteor was only one of many that began on that date, read up." Who observed them, on what dates, or even what records or journals show your claim to be true? If you'd responded reasonably I wouldn't even have gone to the deeper required layer of confirming the veracity of each of those sources--generally because that unrealistic and unavailable for posting. Given you don't provide any detail at all , what am I supposed to think????

    And still I ask again....what confirms, even if there were some high frequency of meteors in December 1811, you still have to make a case for connecting the two events. The moon causes rather large deformations, much larger than anything likely from a comet, even one passing really really post that would have been in everyone's journals from back than, and its effects on earthquakes hard barely noticeable in the data. So what would make this more of any effect.

    Try to convince us.
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; December 9th, 2011 at 10:55 PM.
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    Well, not to confuse, the volcano was also referred to as "The Burning Mountain" and this might be a better source William L. Pierce, letters on the earthquake, 19 Feb. 1812 from The New York Evening Post, letter to the editor, entitked "Big Prarie[On the Mississippi, 761 miles from N. Orleans] Dec. 25,1811. If you want just read the final couple of paragraphs.
    Another interesting tale of the first steamboat that happened to go down the river during the comet and quakes at First Steamboat Mississippi River William Leigh Pierce New Madrid 1811 earthquake account WilliamLeigh Pierce New madrid 1811 earthquake account. Go to the paragraph "Comet, chimney sparks, rumbling of the earth".
    After reading up, you'll find, practically everyone at the time had the belief that the comet was the cause of the quake.

    P.S. The smoking gun will be when I am able to have the rocks analyzed professionally. The "meteorites", petrified wood, once molten rocks, and what will date and prove the event beyond any doubt, should be the encased body parts. This has been the biggest problem for me now for over two years.
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    From the log it sounds like Burning Mountain is in the Walnut hills, not on Jackson Island. Do have a good map that shows where you think they are talking about.

    --
    Off topic I like the Falls of the Ohio entry. Even today it's an amazing place with fossils visible everywhere in the shallow waters and remnants cut made by huge herds of buffalo crossing the river.
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    Yea, it's confusing because so many names have been changed from the original Indian names. I believe The Washita Valley is now known as Fredricksburg, not sure. the natives took many of the names out west with them to places like Kansas, obviously, like Witchita. But there was actually two valcanos, one a bit smaller in Humphreys County Ms. nicknamed "Midnight". But again, why would the natives or early settlers have a nickname for an extinct valcano buried deep beneath the ground? These valcanos were part of an "ancient ring of fire".

    Yea, not to get off subject but, another place that's not well known that has some great fossils is Coon Creek Science Center run by Pink Palace Museums of Memphis. It's not far from where I am. If you'd like to check it out it's at http://www.memphismuseums.org/coon_creek-overview/ . I have wondered how much, if any, the quakes had to do with finding the fossils, maybe it helped bring them to the surface somehow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    How does the first link support your argument. The Sky Panther refers to a comet when Tecumseh was born and no one here doubts there was an earthquake in Dec 1811.

    So what is there's an extinct volcano beneath Jackson MS?

    Connect the dots with actual evidence..instead of bird walking across random factoids from that area.
    Actually, the description of the Sky Panther sounds like a typical meteoric Fireball; Comets do not move swiftly.

    The November 1611 event also sound like a fireball, quite possibly a Leonid or a Taurid, both of which often produce fireballs and peak near that time.

    To give you an idea of how common they actually are, over 1500 fireballs have been reported to the American Meteor Society this year, or about 125 per month.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    P.S. The comet was said to be fifty percent larger than the sun and a coma of more than a million miles. I hope you know better than to think it could be that large and still very far away. So it must have been very close at one point, and guess what that "measurement" was taken in October of 1811! Perfect timing.Look that up at Wikipedia, but I have other sources.
    "The Great Comet of 1811 was thought to have had an exceptionally large coma, perhaps reaching over 1 million miles across—fifty percent larger than the Sun. The comet's nucleus was later estimated at 30–40 km in diameter."

    But at the time, it was further away than the sun...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Another interesting tale of the first steamboat that happened to go down the river during the comet and quakes at First Steamboat Mississippi River William Leigh Pierce New Madrid 1811 earthquake account WilliamLeigh Pierce New madrid 1811 earthquake account. Go to the paragraph "Comet, chimney sparks, rumbling of the earth".
    After reading up, you'll find, practically everyone at the time had the belief that the comet was the cause of the quake.
    Yes, people were quite ignorant about comets, meteor showers, and their effects back then. Meteor showers were not recognized to be even associated with comets (that come close to the earth, unlike the Great Comet of 1811) until the Great Leonid Storm of 1833.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Yea, it's confusing because so many names have been changed from the original Indian names. I believe The Washita Valley is now known as Fredricksburg, not sure. the natives took many of the names out west with them to places like Kansas, obviously, like Witchita. But there was actually two valcanos, one a bit smaller in Humphreys County Ms. nicknamed "Midnight". But again, why would the natives or early settlers have a nickname for an extinct valcano buried deep beneath the ground? These valcanos were part of an "ancient ring of fire".
    So where is it than? Where are the Walnut hills, where fire mountain happened. It doesn't sound anything like Jackson Island.
    Nor, as I pointed out before does the name "burning mountain," clearly mean anything. It could be a reference to a mountain camp site where people usually build fires to stay warm and visible at a distance, it could be a reference to a forest fire that engulfed the mountain at some point, perhaps a poetic reference to sunset or sundown, or just a mistaken translation--all of which are more probable than knowledge of a buried volcano.

    This hypothesis needs a tremendous amount more work to be convincing.


    Yea, not to get off subject but, another place that's not well known that has some great fossils is Coon Creek Science Center run by Pink Palace Museums of Memphis. It's not far from where I am. If you'd like to check it out it's at Coon Creek Science Center - Pink Palace Family of Museums . I have wondered how much, if any, the quakes had to do with finding the fossils, maybe it helped bring them to the surface somehow.
    I'm not in that neck of the woods anymore, but I'll check it out sometime--probably on a storm chase vacation in a few years.
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    Yea, but the people back then weren't that stupid, they've seen plenty of little "shooting stars" and I'm sure many normal meteor showers. Understand what you read, these were "extraordinary large fires in the air", not your average meteor showers, and even it they were, it proves that many rocks were coming down through the atmosphere at the time of the quake, so it gives the possibility.

    Again, you have to understand what you read, it is kinda' obscured because of the way in which people wrote back then. But he states that, the indians made the communication, about the volcano being flattened when they arrived at The Walnut Hills. The location of Walnut Hills was some distance above Natchez [which would have been due west of Jackson]. It was a settler not the Indians that told this to William Pierce, and then he wrote it down. Yes, this would have been much easier if the Indian names would not have been changed. But if The Washita River was the Indian name for The Pearl River [changed by French explorer Pierre d'Iberville] then it would definitely be Jackson. This is just another reason that this event was lost, although it affected history in so many ways.

    It is true, all hear-say evidence is left to interpretation, like the earthquakes were strongest here because we all think so, or it couldn't have been that strong a quake [dropping from estimated 7.8-8.0 to 6.5-7.2, when it was way higher than either] as people said, and church bells didn't ring throughout Pennsylvania because...,or the lights across the skies had to be quartz or gas pockets, or the river ran backwards from tectonic activity alone... So many wrong interpatations of hear-say evidence, that don't take into account the full picture, and leave many unanswered questions. Why did people report black smoke and excessive fog enough to darkened an otherwise bright day? Why so many to report the strong odor of sulfur vapors? Why no reports of the river flowing backwards any further downstream than Memphis? And why a tsunami like wave, if the water was just filling in a lake? How anyone could interpret a statement that the comet, not just the coma, was fifty percent larger than the sun, and still think it was further than the sun, is beyond me. Do you realise what affect a comet of that size would cause, and it probably would have been considered a star. If it were that big, forget our little planet, it would have been able to destroy the sun! Think about it! AND, As if "burning mountain" referred to a frozen lake... And, remember the question, HOW were these volcanos discovered in 1860 or 1819? And WHO discovered these volcanos in 1860 or 1819? Simple question?



    Though all these clues do not affect the tangible evidence of the stratus lines from the shockwave and the amount of unusual stones found at the center of these lines. I understand how incredible this sounds, and I will try to put up more pictures, and show more evidence. I actually have another geologist whose "supposed" to come by soon with a spectrometer and microscope, and he wants a few petrographic samples, but I have had some "bad luck" sending samples off, so am leary. But I'll try to be more patient, as I can see your points of view. I am open to [thoughtful] suggestions.
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    Except the soil morphology and rock geology of the area clearly shows that there was no volcanic activity within the last 65 million years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Those are good questions. They are magnetic. Conditions had to have been just right, as the body parts were cold enough [I've only found extremities] and the molten rock was at the point of re-solidifying, I guess. The iron had to be with the meteor or piece of comet, there is very little if any in the area, as almost all of the river valley consists of mainly gravel, then dirt and sand. That's another good clue, is that there are no natural large stones and boulders belomging to North Mississippi. It's too far from The Appalachian Mountains, and no where near The Ozarks, which is Limestone anyway. I have several large boulders, many with swirl designs, as I imagine they were airborne as they were still somewhat molten. I believe this may be the reason that I have any evidence at all, that the land was frozen. It was one of the coldest winters on record. If it would have been any warmer they may not have been near the amount, and devastation would have been much worse.
    Are the "specimens" metallic in color, cross section, or fracture surface? Any contact of flesh and molten iron would have burned away the flesh entirely or to the point that the external morphology of the organic item was unrecognizable. Can you show that the rocks you have are not glacial erratics or other glacially transported material? if your impacting objects was NOT an iron type, then the amount of iron which would have been present would not be enough to create the amount of molten material you are claiming.
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    Determining volcanic activity by judging surface soil samples would be quite ineffective, due to the fact the volcanos dropped into their own, somewhat empty magma chambers and were instantly covered with many miles of gravel, sand and dirt from the south, and not over thousands of years.

    I have hundreds of samples varying in colors and almost every shade. Definitly metallics. There is no flesh, only some bones. The rock conformed to the body-parts shape, and only what would have been the coldest parts, extremities like fingers and toes, of which I have several. I have found an impression of a nose with partial cheeks, really thin, and fragile, not even a 16th of an inch. One of the fingers broke open when it was sqeezed to hard and had a reddish powder inside. i put that one in a little bag with its contents. NO, no coprolite, lol.
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    Geologically speaking this is giobberish. The collapse of a volcano into its magam chamber creates a caldera, such as the one seen at Crater Lake. This only happens after a major eruption exhausts the contents of the magma chamber. The surface features of the volcano and geologic composition of the site and the surrounding area would show activity having happened in 1811. It does not, it shows no activity more recent then about 65 mya.

    Define metallic, all of the pieces would be the same color on fracture faces and have look like metal. it sounds like you have a lot of concretions formed from an iron bearing mineral such as limonite. The smaller the body part the less likely it would be to survive a coating in molten iron.

    Looking at your images I do NOT see anything organic in shape, and have to squint to see the general outlines you claim.
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    There are no surface features, they're buried under 2900 feet of earth. These are not volcanos that just had empty chambers but sat where vast amounts of land was pulled upon them instantly, therefore no caldera. Never really stated that the volcanos were active at the time, just that the natives reffered to them by a name, as "Burning Mountain" and "Fire Mountain", one sat on "Jackson Island", another was nicknamed "Midnight" [from settlers or natives, not sure], rather simple. The question is, How is this, if they were buried in The Cretacious?

    No, the pieces have many variety of shades. Yes, several look like metal, others are light and dark browns, light and dark grays, light and dark blues, light and dark silvers, many with a fusion crust, many with quartz and nanodiamonds [I believe], many with a mix of some or all these colors, even some that appear to have precious stones as blue sapphires and diamonds [although nothing very large, maybe some at a few karats]

    I intend to make you squint even more, then, if you like. I can put many pictures of a variety of body parts. I have one of a babies leg, that you can still see the leather ties around the ankles and at the hip, probably to hold moccasins and a diaper. One of a hip bone, the size of maybe a toddler, completely hollow, just the rock covering, and many more unbelievable stones. You may say, no-way, but there they are, all these different shapes to close not to be what I think they are, just as Pompeii, though not volcanic, rock from a comet. These are most definately the rarest rocks ever to be found!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Yea, but the people back then weren't that stupid, they've seen plenty of little "shooting stars" and I'm sure many normal meteor showers. Understand what you read, these were "extraordinary large fires in the air", not your average meteor showers, and even it they were, it proves that many rocks were coming down through the atmosphere at the time of the quake, so it gives the possibility.
    And apparently you don;t understand the difference between meteor showers, and individual fireballs, which may or may not be associated with showers.

    Meteor showers occur when we intersect the stream of meteoroids ejected by a particular comet. They all travel in parallel paths, so from our perspective, they appear to come from a point in the sky, i.e., the radiant. That's why they are called Perseids, Leoniods, or Orionids, because that is the constellation that they radiate from.

    Single fireballs can occur any time, from any direction. They may or may not be associated with a meteor shower. The fact that you don't grasp this demonstrates your lack of knowledge on the subject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    No, the pieces have many variety of shades. Yes, several look like metal, others are light and dark browns, light and dark grays, light and dark blues, light and dark silvers, many with a fusion crust, many with quartz and nanodiamonds [I believe], !
    Bingo, busted. Quartz is NEVER found in meteorites, in fact it's one of the eaiest ways to tell a meteorite from a meteorwrong.
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    Who said anything about meteors NOT coming from different directions? What are you talking about? There were showers AND individual fireballs, PLEASE READ. AND, what? Bingo, busted? Are you making an effort to prove your intelligence? The quartz is in the petrified wood, and yes, some meteorites contain shocked quartz, which is simalar. Anyway, why do you try to make this an accusation game and not a learning exercise? Why don't you answer any one of the questions I asked, so I will know the answer? Do I need to ask again? AND, what YOU don't understand, is that these are no where near your ordinary meteorites! The biggest percentage of the average meteorite is iron, because this does not burn up in the atmosphere. What has occurred in this case was unique. These rocks, being from the tail of a comet that had just went around the sun and had somewhat broken apart, were encased in ice, which brought many different forms of rock to earth without burning up during entry. Does this not make sense? AND, please lose the attitude! It makes the conversation look childish!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Who said anything about meteors NOT coming from different directions? What are you talking about? There were showers AND individual fireballs, PLEASE READ. AND, what? Bingo, busted? Are you making an effort to prove your intelligence? The quartz is in the petrified wood, and yes, some meteorites contain shocked quartz, which is simalar. Anyway, why do you try to make this an accusation game and not a learning exercise? Why don't you answer any one of the questions I asked, so I will know the answer? Do I need to ask again? AND, what YOU don't understand, is that these are no where near your ordinary meteorites! The biggest percentage of the average meteorite is iron, because this does not burn up in the atmosphere. What has occurred in this case was unique. These rocks, being from the tail of a comet that had just went around the sun and had somewhat broken apart, were encased in ice, which brought many different forms of rock to earth without burning up during entry. Does this not make sense? AND, please lose the attitude! It makes the conversation look childish!
    No, my friend, it is you who is childish.

    YOU continually mention meteor showers, not I.
    Quartz in NEVER seen in meteorites. Shocked quartz is seen in the surrounding rock, but not in the meteorites themselves.
    Petrified wood is not a meteorite, so why do you suggest they are related without foundation?
    Why have you not addressed any of my questions with scientific evidence? Instead you have linked to dubious websites of unknown origin. Show me some peer reviewed scientific analysis.
    Of course they are not ordinary meteorites, since you have provided no evidence that they even are meteorites. Except for your pictures, which clearly show they are not meteorites.
    As I pointed out, the closest the comet came to earth was 1.2 AU from earth; in other words, further from earth than the sun is!
    You have provided no evidence that the earth passed through through the tail of the comet; in fact a cursory examination of the orbit would show that is completely impossible. If you knew anything about comets, orbits, and meteor streams.

    So no, it makes no sense whatsoever.
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    You're funny, just straight up, derogatory name-calling of another! You don't think that this may be "childish"? You have not even attempted to answer not one of the unanswerable questions, because you know I am right. And, yes I mentioned meteor showers and meteors, several together and individually, small, medium and large, coming in before, during, and after the comets' passing, but I believe the largest piece was from the coma [so what about it?]. Gary Kronks' site fails to mention at all the fact that this comet appeared fifty percent larger than the sun. Try Wikipedia Great Comet of 1811 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .Although even Wikipedia hasn't exactly got it straight saying the coma was a million miles "across" but they do point out that it was fifty percent larger than the sun. The measurements that you keep stating as 1.2 AU from the Earth, and others,are from March, April, and June. This is when the comet was on its way in towards the sun. As it goes around the sun so closely, it partially melts becoming broken, also making it appear much larger, and slingshots away at a much higher rate of speed, totally changing its trajectory, which noone could predict or measure [look what happened with Comet Elenin, noone knew for sure what would occur with it either] then the comet heads right by our planet, and eventually large rocks from the coma, still encased in ice, get close enough to be pulled in by Earths' Atmosphere. Here's another reference to attest as the comets closeness to Earth. Go to "Society for Disciplinary studies" [S.I.S], Reference Page, and down to "The Dangers of Near-Earth Objects [NEOs], and Spacewatching", or just try this link Did a comet cause the New Madrid earthquake in 1811? | Society for Interdisciplinary Studies .

    This event in The Mississippi River Valley was but one of many produced by this comet. This is also a testament to this catastrophe. Caracus, Venezuela was totally destroyed. First a large quake in December 1811, then after several volcanic eruptions and more earthquakes, on March 26, 1812 more than 20,000 people died almost instantly throughout Venezuela. There were several unusually extreme eruptions and earthquakes all over the planet.

    The more you see the more you know!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    There are no surface features, they're buried under 2900 feet of earth. These are not volcanos that just had empty chambers but sat where vast amounts of land was pulled upon them instantly, therefore no caldera. Never really stated that the volcanos were active at the time, just that the natives reffered to them by a name, as "Burning Mountain" and "Fire Mountain", one sat on "Jackson Island", another was nicknamed "Midnight" [from settlers or natives, not sure], rather simple. The question is, How is this, if they were buried in The Cretacious?
    Its easy if it you and only you who wants a connection between a 65myo volcanic vent and modern times. ANY activity after the last ice age would have left visible detectable geologic evidence at the surface. No volcano known has ever "sucked in" vast amounts of land in the way you are suggesting, and the suction of that amount of material would also have left very notable marks on the surface.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    No, the pieces have many variety of shades. Yes, several look like metal, others are light and dark browns, light and dark grays, light and dark blues, light and dark silvers, many with a fusion crust, many with quartz and nanodiamonds [I believe], many with a mix of some or all these colors, even some that appear to have precious stones as blue sapphires and diamonds [although nothing very large, maybe some at a few karats]
    Again let me guess, either you have never had the "diamonds" or "sapphires" tested, or if you have the unscrupulous "scientists have lied or stolen the specimens. Neither quartz nor Sapphires are found in meteors, and corundum is not found in environments that would form the limonite concretions in your images.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    I intend to make you squint even more, then, if you like. I can put many pictures of a variety of body parts. I have one of a babies leg, that you can still see the leather ties around the ankles and at the hip, probably to hold moccasins and a diaper. One of a hip bone, the size of maybe a toddler, completely hollow, just the rock covering, and many more unbelievable stones. You may say, no-way, but there they are, all these different shapes to close not to be what I think they are, just as Pompeii, though not volcanic, rock from a comet. These are most definately the rarest rocks ever to be found!
    The rares rocks ever found? wow you have a big ego. I say again the conditions you suggest did not happen, and all you are seeing is limonite concretions. If you have so much evidence why have you not wrote a peer reviewed paper on it then?
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    It didn't suck it in, the volcanoes fell in and then the land was pulled upward and over them by the motion of the blast, coming in at a low trajectory and almost due north, slightly from the east. Imagine pushing your finger up on a tablecloth across a table, same principal. Again, state your references as to a cometary collision and material that has been investigated, and analyzed, so we can compare. It seems as if I might get a biased review, as you are really just the average skeptic. I must say, not very many people with enough intelligence to even start to study what has happened here. In fact you would not believe the amount of ignorance! Then, find me a good investigative geologist. Although, I will keep trying.I don't say these are the rarest rocks out of ego, but out of study. And once I start to post more photos, and if you may go to the site and study more photos, you may actually WANT to come and see these rocks for yourself, and you WILL be convinced. This is how strongly that I know I am Right!
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    It didn't suck it in, the volcanoes fell in and then&nbsp;the land was pulled upward and over them&nbsp;by the motion of the blast, coming in at a low trajectory and almost due north, slightly from the east. Imagine pushing your finger up on a tablecloth across a table, same principal. Again, state your references as to a cometary collision and material that&nbsp;has been&nbsp;investigated, and analyzed, so we can compare. It seems as if I might get a biased review, as you are really just the average skeptic. I must say, not very many&nbsp;people with enough intelligence&nbsp;to even start to study what has happened here. In fact you would not believe the amount of ignorance! Then, find me a good investigative geologist. Although, I will keep trying.I don't say these are the rarest rocks out of ego, but out of study. And once I start to post more photos, and if you may go to the site and study more photos, you may actually WANT to come and see these rocks for yourself, and you WILL be convinced. This is how strongly that I know I am Right!<img class="inlineimg" title="Cool" border="0" alt="" src="http://www.thescienceforum.com/images/smilies/cool.png" smilieid="6">
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    You're funny, just straight up, derogatory name-calling of another! You don't think that this may be "childish"?
    You are the one that began the name calling. I have mostly refrained from it.

    You have not even attempted to answer not one of the unanswerable questions, because you know I am right.
    No, because you have presented anecdotes without evidence, and questions so poorly worded, they are unanswerable. Meanwhile, myself and others have asked specific questions of you and you respond with anecdotes without evidence, and questions so poorly worded, they are unanswerable.

    And, yes I mentioned meteor showers and meteors, several together and individually, small, medium and large, coming in before, during, and after the comets' passing,
    Not really, but you've changed your story so many times it's hard to keep track...

    but I believe the largest piece was from the coma [so what about it?].
    Again, since the coma never came within a hundred million miles of the earth, this is just silly.

    Gary Kronks' site fails to mention at all the fact that this comet appeared fifty percent larger than the sun. Try Wikipedia Great Comet of 1811 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .
    Actually, if you use Wikepedia as it should be used, a reseach TOOL, and follow the references, Gary Kronk's site says this right here:
    Comet Introduction
    "The Coma
    Comets can typically display a coma several thousand kilometers in diameter, with the size being dependent on the comet's distance from the sun and the size of the nucleus. The latter is important because since jets generally spring up on the side of the nucleus facing the sun (that side gets warmest), and since large nuclei have a greater surface area facing the sun, then there is the potential for larger numbers of jets and greater amounts of gas and dust feeding the coma. One of the largest comets in history was the Great Comet of 1811. It was one of the few comets in history to be discovered with a relatively small telescope at an unusually great distance from the sun, in this case over half-way to the planet Jupiter's orbit. The nucleus has been estimated as between 30 and 40 kilometers in diameter. At one point during September to October 1811 the coma reached a diameter roughly equivalent to the diameter of the sun and was a very notable naked-eye object seen by people around the world.

    Even though the coma can become quite large, its size can actually decrease about the time it crosses the orbit of Mars. At this distance the particles streaming out from the sun provide enough force so as to act as a wind and will literally blow the gas and dust particles away from the nucleus and coma. This disruption is the process responsible for a comet's tail, the most spectacular feature of a comet."

    Just for reference, the diameter of the sun is about 1.4 million km, or about 875,000 miles.

    Although even Wikipedia hasn't exactly got it straight saying the coma was a million miles "across" but they do point out that it was fifty percent larger than the sun.
    Unfortunately, I don't have the Burnham/Levy book that the source of that is, so can't verify exactly what was said. No mention is made of the size in Levy's book "Comets", that I do have.

    The measurements that you keep stating as 1.2 AU from the Earth, and others,are from March, April, and June.
    No that's on October 16 1811 when it was closest. In April-June 1811 it was 2.1 to 2.4 AU distant (on the way in), and in April-June 1812, it was 3.3-3.8 AU away (one the way out). I'd suggest you lean how to use the JPL small body database to generate the Ephemeris. Use the scientific name for the comet C/1811 F1

    This is when the comet was on its way in towards the sun. As it goes around the sun so closely, it partially melts becoming broken, also making it appear much larger, and slingshots away at a much higher rate of speed, totally changing its trajectory, which noone could predict or measure [look what happened with Comet Elenin, noone knew for sure what would occur with it either]
    Sorry, but this shows a stunning lack of understanding of how comet orbits are determined and calculated. While the exact path after perihelion cannot be precisely determined due to non-gravitational effects from the jets from the nucleus acting like small rockets, the amount of error is quite small in the big picture. Even after comet Elenin was disrupted and fell apart, the leftovers continued on the predicted path; that the only reason the faint, tenuous remain were able to be photographed weeks later; because it was exactly where the predicted orbit said it should have been. In the case of a large comet like C/1811 F1, with a 30-40 km sized nucleus, the jet effects would be very small.

    then the comet heads right by our planet, and eventually large rocks from the coma, still encased in ice, get close enough to be pulled in by Earths' Atmosphere.
    Hmmm, simply wrong. Again, the comet was a hundred million miles away. The atmosphere doesn't pull on anything; that would be gravity. Maybe you've heard of it? That's the same magic stuff that allows us to predict the orbit of the comet.

    Here's another reference to attest as the comets closeness to Earth. Go to "Society for Disciplinary studies" [S.I.S], Reference Page, and down to "The Dangers of Near-Earth Objects [NEOs], and Spacewatching", or just try this link Did a comet cause the New Madrid earthquake in 1811? | Society for Interdisciplinary Studies .
    You think that's a reputable science site? Sheesh. Show me some peer reviewed research.

    This event in The Mississippi River Valley was but one of many produced by this comet. This is also a testament to this catastrophe. Caracus, Venezuela was totally destroyed. First a large quake in December 1811, then after several volcanic eruptions and more earthquakes, on March 26, 1812 more than 20,000 people died almost instantly throughout Venezuela. There were several unusually extreme eruptions and earthquakes all over the planet.

    The more you see the more you know!
    And the less you know, the less you know!
    Last edited by MeteorWayne; December 11th, 2011 at 08:28 AM. Reason: Edited to fix typos
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    It didn't suck it in, the volcanoes fell in and then the land was pulled upward and over them by the motion of the blast, coming in at a low trajectory and almost due north, slightly from the east. Imagine pushing your finger up on a tablecloth across a table, same principal. Again, state your references as to a cometary collision and material that has been investigated, and analyzed, so we can compare. It seems as if I might get a biased review, as you are really just the average skeptic. I must say, not very many people with enough intelligence to even start to study what has happened here. In fact you would not believe the amount of ignorance! Then, find me a good investigative geologist. Although, I will keep trying.I don't say these are the rarest rocks out of ego, but out of study. And once I start to post more photos, and if you may go to the site and study more photos, you may actually WANT to come and see these rocks for yourself, and you WILL be convinced. This is how strongly that I know I am Right!
    Wait, now we have multiple volcanoes? When did this become a complex edifice? Pulling nearly 3000 ft of material over the volcano as it collapsed into a crater would create massive soil ad topography disruption that would be immediately recognizable even today. Instead the soil profiles, such as here Mississippi Agricultural and Forestry Experiment Station (MAFES) - B1067 Soils of Native Prairie Remnants in the Jackson Prairie Region of MS, show no evidence of the massive scale disruption that would have been needed.

    I see the limonite concretions just fine on the pictures, which regrettably have no scales in most of them. They are not volcanic or extraterrestrial in origin from what I see. I would say the rarest "rocks" would be a toss up between the single specimen fossils that are the only known specimens of new species, such as the holoype for Nymphes georgei or the single known crystals used to describe new minerals, such as Kazanskyite.
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    Meteorwayne, your'e spouting out B.S.! NOONE knew for sure what Comet Elenin was going to do, or where it would end up! I've seen all the reports, and the same would have been even more true two hundred years ago. Sorry, but whatever measurements you may have, they are innacurate. no matter what "formula" you may believe they used, they were looking through primitive telescopes. AND, how do you explain it being fifty percent larger than the sun? Do you really believe the comet could have been that far away and appear to be bigger than the sun? I don't think you understand what they were describing or what affect an object that size woul do. Even if it were the coma of a comet, that amount of material with that amount of force would have been enough to slingshot the sun, instead of the other way around! There has NEVER been any other object this large in the sky besides the moon and the sun. Give some understanding. And, stop repeating yourself, and no, I didn't call you a name I called this conversation a name, although, I did say to lose the name that you are unworthy of, please pay attention.

    Paleoichneum, gravel dirt and sand reform rather quickly, with the amount of weather in the region the evidence would have been gone in less than a couple months. The huge salt dome, limestone caves and abundant marine fossils, all of which or at surface level, are proof positive that the land below Jackson Ms. was under water, easily as recently as a couple hundred years ago. Also, thanks, at least you are saying the rocks are quite strange, but some of the photos are showing rocks that boiled and "popped" holes, others show shrapnel, like cannonballs from the explosive force of the impact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Meteorwayne, your'e spouting out B.S.! NOONE knew for sure what Comet Elenin was going to do, or where it would end up!
    Once again, completely incorrect. The orbit was determined within a week or so of it's first discovery. The only thing that could not be predicted was that it would disintegrate, since position measurements cannot determine the size or makeup of the nucleus.

    I've seen all the reports
    Apparently not. Show me the SCIENTIFIC reports that show that the orbit could not be predicted.

    the same would have been even more true two hundred years ago.
    Actually the same was true 200 years ago, , so once again you are wrong. Yes, the precision of the measurements (and hence the accuracy of the orbit predictions) has improved in the intervening 2 centuries. But a 100 million mile miss is a 100 million mile miss even if it's off by a million miles. That's just deliberately ignoring, or being ignorant of the long existing science of predicting cometary orbits.

    Sorry, but whatever measurements you may have, they are innacurate. no matter what "formula" you may believe they used, they were looking through primitive telescopes. AND, how do you explain it being fifty percent larger than the sun?
    You do realize that was the size of the coma itself, not how big it appeared in the sky. Oh no, probably not

    Do you really believe the comet could have been that far away and appear to be bigger than the sun? I don't think you understand what they were describing or what affect an object that size woul do.
    See my previous point. This just shows you don't understand the difference. Sheesh...

    Even if it were the coma of a comet, that amount of material with that amount of force would have been enough to slingshot the sun, instead of the other way around!
    You do realize, that if the coma of a comet were here on earth it would qualify as a vaccuum, right? No, probably not... So the mass in the coma is insignificant. The mass of the comet is in the nucleus, which came no closer than 1.03 AU to the sun. And the nucleus was 30-40 km in diameter, so even that compared to the sun, is insignificant. It's not going to slingshot the sun anywhere.

    There has NEVER been any other object this large in the sky besides the moon and the sun. Give some understanding. And, stop repeating yourself, and no, I didn't call you a name I called this conversation a name, although, I did say to lose the name that you are unworthy of, please pay attention.
    Actually, you did, but your display of ignorance of science is apparent to all who have read this far, so I see no reason to embarass you further or report you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Can't really type out the whole fourteen pages, time issues. .
    Ever hear of Copy and Paste?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    . It is not possible to see or hear a fireworks display even in the next town over.
    Another incorrect statement. A can hear and see fireworks from 10 miles away, and do often during fireworks season.

    I can see thunderstorm's lightning from more than 75 miles away, and have done so many times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Wayne, you have to look it up! And, do you wish to see my e-mails? .
    Sure, post them here, or PM me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Paleoichneum, gravel dirt and sand reform rather quickly, with the amount of weather in the region the evidence would have been gone in less than a couple months.
    Utter popycock, if volcano's in the tropics, which are subject to more weathering then Mississippi, are still visible hundreds of years after they last erupted, then the Jackson Volcano would be visible if it had erupted in the last 10,000 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    The huge salt dome, limestone caves and abundant marine fossils, all of which or at surface level, are proof positive that the land below Jackson Ms. was under water, easily as recently as a couple hundred years ago.
    Again you show a lack of comprehension when it comes to timescales. The formation of both the salt domes and the limestones took millions if years, and this is supported by the fossils found in the limestones, which range in age from Devonian, Carboniferous, Cretaceous, to the youngest limestone, the Vicksburg Formation, which is Eocene-Oligocene.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Also, thanks, at least you are saying the rocks are quite strange, but some of the photos are showing rocks that boiled and "popped" holes, others show shrapnel, like cannonballs from the explosive force of the impact.
    At no point did I say the rocks are strange, I said they appear to be typical limonite concretion to accretion masses, rather common item actually and known for producing varied shapes and colors.
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    You completely misunderstand the variables of trajectories, any number of circumstances will change an orbit, it's funny how you then say "they didn't know". And, yes they did say it APPEARED fifty percent larger. And, sorry the next town over for me is further than ten miles, regardless, there were many reports from several states over, like from North Carolina to New Madrid, Missouri.

    Again, I never stated the volcanoes erupted, just that the natives had names for them, one sat on an island named after Andrew Jackson and said they fell in, quite simple. You two completely go in another irrelavant direction. The evidence is obvious to anyone. The rocks were not formed from an ice sheet, river, or a failed rift, they are obviously not just iron or limonite concretions, they obviously had to have had extreme heat and pressure, though are obviously not volcanic, and no gas pocket explosion could have possibly created these rocks. If they are so common, show me a few pictures of simalar rocks!

    Look, class is over, Apparently, you never looked at the site, never studied any of the evidence, will never answer, not one of the questions, so where does one go? If you can't understand what happened by now, and if you can't see anything on satellite, understand any of the accounts, or see anything strange about the rocks, then good luck with your science ambitions!
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    completely misunderstand the variables of trajectories,
    Like what? Are you now suggesting we didn't know basic Newtonian movement in the early 19th century. Comets follow highly predictable paths, which we've known about for hundreds of years.

    Again, I never stated the volcanoes erupted, just that the natives had names for them, one sat on an island named after Andrew Jackson and said they fell in, quite simple.
    All we have is a word for "fire" which as already explained had many more probable explanations...none of which you'd even acknowledged. You didn't even really make an argument for collocating them even though the descriptions most reasonably put them at different locations. An Island in the middle of the Mississippi, versus a "fire mountain," up some other river near some "walnut hills."

    No one here is being an ass about this, but it seems most here have looked at your evidence and found your case based on far fetched ideas and circumstantial evidence predicated on a poor understanding of geology and astronomy.

    The evidence is obvious to anyone
    So obviously not true.

    Before this idea is accepted you'll have to meet a standard of understanding much greater than the mild scrutiny by a few participants here. As I said before, you've got a lot of work to do. Based on what you've shown so far, you're idea doesn't seem even remotely possible. If you do come up with something credible it will probably be something very different in the analysis of the 1811 earth quake, the sky events from that year but most likely nothing connecting the two other than coincidence. Nothing wrong with that. Often discover comes from unexpected research. Get a good grasp of the sciences involved though before hand--that's the best advise I can give. Perhaps we'll see you in a few years with something coherent tangentially related to this research--that would be fun.
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    Do you not believe that an object traveling through space can come in contact with another object and change its path? Do you not realize how many forces come into play?

    No, you also have the word "mountain" and the statement that it was "rent" to its base, and again depends on interpatation of hear-say evidence.

    It's simple, go back, look at the questions that I asked and answer them. Do you not see the line formation on the satellite view? I could not understand why not! Did you not see all the pictures at the site? Why would all these unusual stones be found at the center of all the stratus lines on satellite view?

    Really, all I need is a good investigative scientist to date the encased body parts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Do you not believe that an object traveling through space can come in contact with another object and change its path? Do you not realize how many forces come into play?
    But it didn't. The orbits before and after were very close to what was predicted by newtonian and keplarian understanding of orbits.

    That understanding is 400 years old.
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    I forgot, you were there, and you know exactly what happened!

    Come on! The hear-say evidence has been so scrambled, there's no telling what really happened. You still don't get that it appeared fifty percent larger than the sun. So if you can't understand that, why argue with you?


    Before and after what, Wayne? You mean before the comet [one object]came in contact with the sun [another object] and changed its trajectory. oh, but no it didn't, and I know that the orbital elements were right, and fifty percent larger than the sun was when it was way away from Earth.

    Get Real!
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    And YOU don't understand that the coma was larger than the sun. Not that the coma appeared twice the size of the sun in the sky.

    You are hopeless. Oh and BTW, certainly not a scientist.

    "On September 9, William Herschel (Alnwick, England) saw the comet with a refractor and noted, "the planetary disk-like appearance seen with the naked eye, was transformed into a bright cometic nebula, in which no nucleus could be perceived." He estimated the conspicuous tail as 9° or 10° long and noted a "very considerable" curvature. On September 18, Herschel (Glasgow) observed with a reflector and noted that the star-like head took on the appearance of a globular nebula. He estimated that its diameter was about 5 or 6 arc minutes, "of which one or two minutes about the centre were nearly of equal brightness."

    Herschel reported the tail was 25° long on October 6, while the faint outer coma was 15' across.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Again, I never stated the volcanoes erupted, just that the natives had names for them, one sat on an island named after Andrew Jackson and said they fell in, quite simple. You two completely go in another irrelavant direction. The evidence is obvious to anyone. The rocks were not formed from an ice sheet, river, or a failed rift, they are obviously not just iron or limonite concretions, they obviously had to have had extreme heat and pressure, though are obviously not volcanic, and no gas pocket explosion could have possibly created these rocks. If they are so common, show me a few pictures of simalar rocks!
    What multiple volcano's, we have only been discussing the Jackson Volcano. I am saying it would be obvious and noticeable in the surface topography, soil content, and geology if that had happened any time after the ice age. As settlement of the region by the native peoples was not till after the ice age, for them to know about it it would have had to been visible then. "Just falling in" does not happen. Period.

    The evidence is ambiguous at best to everyone not invested in your pet hypothesis. No they ahve not as they all display a distinct sandy texture. As meteorwayne has already debunked, there is no way it was an impact.
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    MeteorWayne, I recomend the book "An Introduction to Astronomy"by Forest Ray Moulten. He describes, in one section, how comets "used"to be measured. this should interest you, especially what William Herschel's discription of The Great Comet of 1811 says. It tells of attempted explanations, his "suggestions" and unexplained variations. Do note the comet was in the Southern Hemisphere and barely visible over the horizon, giving optical illusion.

    Paleoichneum, can you not even read this thread? I have previously stated that there were two volcanoes, one named "Burning Mountain" on Jackson Island, the other nicknamed "Midnight" in Humphreys County. The natives and settlers knew of the volcanoes and had names for both, so how is this if they were supposedly buried in The Cretacious?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Paleoichneum, can you not even read this thread? I have previously stated that there were two volcanoes, one named "Burning Mountain" on Jackson Island, the other nicknamed "Midnight" in Humphreys County. The natives and settlers knew of the volcanoes and had names for both, so how is this if they were supposedly buried in The Cretacious?
    YOU are the one who says they new of the "two" volcanos, of which only one exists, and YOU have not provided any evidence other then your own leaps that the names have anything to do with volcanos. The geology, soil structure, and physical topography of the area totally falsify your assertions.

    What proof do you have of them being known other then you WANTING them to have been known. The names given could mean many other things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    MeteorWayne, I recomend the book "An Introduction to Astronomy"by Forest Ray Moulten. He describes, in one section, how comets "used"to be measured. this should interest you, especially what William Herschel's discription of The Great Comet of 1811 says. It tells of attempted explanations, his "suggestions" and unexplained variations. Do note the comet was in the Southern Hemisphere and barely visible over the horizon, giving optical illusion.

    Paleoichneum, can you not even read this thread? I have previously stated that there were two volcanoes, one named "Burning Mountain" on Jackson Island, the other nicknamed "Midnight" in Humphreys County. The natives and settlers knew of the volcanoes and had names for both, so how is this if they were supposedly buried in The Cretacious?
    Perhaps you should read about the history of Sir Frederick William Herschel. He was one of the most accomplished astronomers of the 18th and 19th centuries.

    "Deep Sky Surveys

    From 1782 to 1802, and most intensively from 1783 to 1790, Herschel conducted systematic surveys in search of "deep sky" or nonstellar objects with two 20-foot focal length (610 cm), 12-inch aperture (30 cm) and 18.7-inch aperture (47 cm) telescopes (in combination with his favoured 6 inch aperture instrument). Excluding duplicated and "lost" entries, Herschel ultimately discovered over 2400 objects defined by him as nebulae. (At that time, nebula was the generic term for any visually extended or diffuse astronomical object, including galaxies beyond the Milky Way, until galaxies were confirmed as extragalactic systems by Edwin Hubble in 1924.) Herschel published his discoveries as three catalogues: Catalogue of One Thousand New Nebulae and Clusters of Stars (1786), Catalogue of a Second Thousand New Nebulae and Clusters of Stars (1789) and the previously cited Catalogue of 500 New Nebulae ... (1802). He arranged his discoveries under eight "classes": (I) bright nebulae, (II) faint nebulae, (III) very faint nebulae, (IV) planetary nebulae, (V) very large nebulae, (VI) very compressed and rich clusters of stars, (VII) compressed clusters of small and large [faint and bright] stars, and (VIII) coarsely scattered clusters of stars. Herschel's discoveries were supplemented by those of Caroline Herschel (11 objects) and his son John Herschel (1754 objects) and published by him as General Catalogue of Nebulae and Clusters in 1864. This catalogue was later edited by John Dreyer, supplemented with discoveries by many other 19th century astronomers, and published in 1888 as the New General Catalogue (abbreviated NGC) of over 6200 deep sky objects. The NGC numbering is still the most commonly used identifying label for these celestial landmarks

    In his later career, Herschel discovered two moons of Saturn, Mimas and Enceladus; as well as two moons of Uranus, Titania and Oberon. He did not give these moons their names; they were named by his son John in 1847 and 1852, respectively, well after his death.

    Recently, some evidence has been cited by Dr. Stuart Eves that Herschel might have discovered rings around Uranus.[14]

    Herschel measured the axial tilt of the planet Mars and discovered that the martian ice caps, first observed by Giovanni Domenico Cassini (1666) and Christiaan Huygens (1672), changed size with the planet's seasons.

    From studying the proper motion of stars, he was the first to realise that the solar system is moving through space, and he determined the approximate direction of that movement. He also studied the structure of the Milky Way and concluded that it was in the shape of a disk.

    He also coined the word "asteroid", meaning star-like (from the Greek asteroeides, aster "star" + -eidos "form, shape"), in 1802 (shortly after Olbers discovered the second minor planet, 2 Pallas, in late March of the same year), to describe the star-like appearance of the small moons of the giant planets and of the minor planets; the planets all show discs, by comparison. However, it was not until the 1850s that 'asteroid' became a standard term for describing certain minor planets."

    This was not a man prone to anecdotes; he was an experienced sky observer. Given a choice, I'd trust his detailed observations over your wild, unsubstantiated speculation any day of the week.
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    Paleoichneum, go to keyhole.com

    Meteorwayne, I got your "rings around Uranus"!
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    Such an intelligent and intellectual response. About what I'd expect from a pseudoscientist...
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    I know, was cute, just laugh it off, then study the evidence 'til you realise that i am correct,
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    When you provide some evidence, I will.
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    Sounds like you're just giving up. The evidence is there, and there's plenty. Come on man, the satellite view, the rocks, the original accounts, the evidence that shouldn't be missing, it all adds up. It's an amazing part of history, that changed everything. The Indians would have ran out the settlers, so no U.S.A.. Napolean would have won in Russia, so no U.S.S.R. See what your missing out on, you should read the book, or at least the lttle article at the website. See how fascinating this becomes!
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    There's no point in arguing with some one so invested in their fantasy that they won't listen. I only post to keep others from being deluded by your pseudoscience.

    You have provided no evidence whatsoever. Just a huge steaming pile of "I say so".

    The "original accounts" are anecdotes. I have provided real science refuting your claims, and you have not responded to a dozen specific requsts for specific scientific references.

    This "The Indians would have ran out the settlers, so no U.S.A.. Napolean would have won in Russia, so no U.S.S.R. See what your missing out on, you should read the book, or at least the lttle article at the website. See how fascinating this becomes! " is pure balony.
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    Well, you need to take a bigger "wiff", 'cause it's right there, in your face! I don't see how you cannot see it, and I'm being totally sincere. It's just so obvious to me. Especially the satellite view, it's just like a huge thumbprint. Did you go to the coordinates, and pan out? I need to post it with a bullseye to make it easier, would that help?

    I guess the original accounts are kinda' short and amusing, but they are real. And all we have is what the people recorded. Same thing with the little anecdotes you posted with the measurements and whatever other"real science" that refutes me. And although, yes I have responded by giving several references, I don't think you read a one, maybe scanned a couple. What about answering one of my questions?

    Even if the impact didn't kill thousands of natives [but it did], the "sign" made most of the chiefs not fight with Tecumseh, and totally changed "The War of 1812" [Tecumseh's War]. And, You should study the reason that this comet also recieved the name "Napoleans Comet". It was said to have caused the harsh winter that destroyed his army.
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    Well, you need to take a bigger "wiff", 'cause it's right there, in your face! I don't see how you cannot see it, and I'm being totally sincere.
    Then you should probably step back, take a deep breath, perhaps take a knee from this project to study more geology and astronomy before coming back. Satellite views can be revealing or misleading depending on perspective--you're view might turn out to be no more credible than the face on Mars, or you might have found a meteorite crater--which would be a spectacular discovery in it's own right without the far fetched story you've connected it to. No matter what you've got, to make your case in scientific terms with solid evidence or science folks just aren't going to buy it--that's where you are now.
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    Yea, I know, I've been told that. It really is a shame though, that so many have that perspective. I wouldn't be disappointed a bit if someone were to prove me wrong. I just wish i could find someone's interest to try! But, really, the proverbial "cat's out of the bag". It is such a big deal, now, that it seems noone wants to risk it. Although, I will try again to have the rocks tested discretely, without the "crazy" story. Just don't want to lose any more good samples.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Paleoichneum, go to keyhole.com

    Meteorwayne, I got your "rings around Uranus"!
    Hhmmm, so no actual evidence then to support you position. As is clear from the existing studies of the regional soil, geology, and topography.
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    The current dating game is efed up! They dated The Carolina Bay Craters by soil samples in and around the crater, this dates the soil deposit and NOT the time the craters appeared! The petrified forest near Jackson was dated at 36 million years old and are said to have been buried under deep mud, then the mud somehow washed away, but these trees are standing, with no erosion, and how did they date them? you tell me, and who dated them? You tell me! Taking soil samples from above the extinct, buried volcanoes will only date the soil, and volcanic ash is found all over the lower states, could have been from Yellowstone, Mt. Saint Helens, or any number of extinct, dormant volcanoes throughout the western states. Who discovered the volcanoes, and how did they discover the volcanoes beneath Jackson Ms. and beneath Humphreys county? Just find this out for me, o.k.?
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    You can easily find these things out.
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    Take it in chunks Kalopin. Study your suspect impact site and use science. Heck use it to learn science, make it your masters thesis project for geology or something. If worse comes to worse you're an expert of the geology for that region..and that by itself is of value to a lot of people you probably aren't even aware of. As you learn, keep the rest to yourself so your not cast as a crackpot. If you are right you can take you time and develop the expertise to build your case a bit at a time. If your wrong you still learn a lot in the process.
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    Paleoichneum, If it were easy, I'd know, as I have made many attempts, contacting many paople and looking through much material. This is the only reason I ask you to try, because all these questions that I've asked should be easy, yet still no answers, and none here either. So tell me, what reason for this?

    Lynx_Fox, I'll try to slow it down, if you believe there's time. This discovery, if investigated, could make a difference in dealing with NEOs. I do appreciate your advice, several others have said similar. But if ANY of the great thinkers, discoverers, and inventors [not saying I'm one] would have felt this way, then the human race would still be chunkin' spears! Galileo, Copernicus, Archemedes, Aristotle, Confucius, Einstein, Tesla...were all told they were wrong and called many names. So crackpot does not bother me one bit, in fact puts me in pretty good company. Though, I would appreciate if you could find some constituants and get an answer to at least a couple of the "simple" questions.
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  101. #100  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    The current dating game is efed up! They dated The Carolina Bay Craters by soil samples in and around the crater, this dates the soil deposit and NOT the time the craters appeared!
    Who is the "they" that did the Carolina Bays dating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    The petrified forest near Jackson was dated at 36 million years old and are said to have been buried under deep mud, then the mud somehow washed away, but these trees are standing, with no erosion, and how did they date them? you tell me, and who dated them? You tell me!
    From what I am seeing the trees were not deposited staining up, but are the preserved remains of a flood event. Not of a forest with standing trees. The dating of the Forest hill Formation which encloses the trees, not the trees themselves (which is normal for fossil dating. From what I find the formation was placed in the Late Eocene/Early Oligocene (~35myo) range in this paper

    edit: Please, Please, tell my you are not going to try to say an impact created the petrified forest!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Taking soil samples from above the extinct, buried volcanoes will only date the soil, and volcanic ash is found all over the lower states, could have been from Yellowstone, Mt. Saint Helens, or any number of extinct, dormant volcanoes throughout the western states. Who discovered the volcanoes, and how did they discover the volcanoes beneath Jackson Ms. and beneath Humphreys county? Just find this out for me, o.k.?
    Which volcanos are you wanting this information on?????
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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